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  5. "They are my favorite songs."

"They are my favorite songs."

Translation:Son mis canciones favoritas.

June 13, 2018

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shehadi7

There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing " Ellos son mis canciones favoritas" but it was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EseEmeErre

Ellos is the masculine version of the pronoun. To use the pronoun here, which is unnatural in addition to being unnecessary, the feminine form is required because the pronoun refers to canciones which is feminine.


[deactivated user]

    You are probably right. And I will assume you are since you probably know more than I do. But I just typed in Ellas etc. and it was acepted. (Just to see uf it would be acepted) I'm still never sure when I can leave it out!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EseEmeErre

    At the time of these responses, the default translation included the subject pronoun, ellas. It has since been removed from the default translation, but it remains an acceptable alternate answer.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nwoon

    You can leave it out whenever you want. Your verb also dictates (and therefore matches) who is the subject, but it is just not as specific. e.g. the verb won't tell you if it is a group of females or a group of people/males. Or it won't tell you if it is he or she.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mexicanfoodfreak

    EseEmeErre, is 'ellas' a bit unnatural here because the use of 'they' here is as a subject pronoun that is the plural of it?

    It is my favorite song. --> Es mi canción favorita. ('It' has no direct Spanish translation as a subject pronoun.)
    They are my favorite songs. --> Son mis canciones favoritas. ('Ellas' is acceptable but unnecessary and unnatural.)
    They are intelligent women. --> [Ellas] son mujeres inteligentes. ('Ellas' is unnecessary but not unnatural.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanPlatino

    Mexicanfoodfreak: EsmEme is correct, as you are. My native Spanish friend assures me that whilst 'Ellas' is acceptable, natives would not normally use it, certainly in mainland Spain.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dan.vegan4life

    I put "esas son mis canciones favoritas". But apparently that was wrong.

    Why use "ellas" anyway, surely that only refers to people or living things, not songs? You don't refer to "ellas sillas" or "they chairs", you say "esas sillas" or "those chairs".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeMelosh

    You aren't using ellas as an adjective here (how you used esas in your example), but as a pronoun. Ellas son/ They are. You could, in a different situation, say Esas son / Those are This is the first time I've seen the pronoun dropped at the beginning of the sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    It's actually pretty common to drop the subject pronoun when making these kinds of general statements:

    Es mi banda favorita. [It's my favorite band.]

    Son mejores. [They're better.]

    The pronouns "it" and "they" are implied.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TonyDuin

    But isn't 'ellos' or 'ellas' dictated by whether they (the subject) are male or female, not on the rest of the sentence being spoken?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicity359602

    Yes, it depends on the subject, and the subject "they" here is referring to "songs"/"canciones", which is why it would be the feminine ellas.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niki65377

    So could you write ellas son mis canciones favoritas


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    Yes. Two years ago, someone posted:

    At the time of these responses, the default translation included the subject pronoun, ellas. It has since been removed from the default translation, but it remains an acceptable alternate answer.

    NEVERTHELESS, it's much more natural to leave the implied pronoun off.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScottM145869

    What if it's men who like the songs? Do you still say 'Ellas'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicity359602

    In "[ellas] son mis canciones favoritas"/"they are my favorite songs", ellas/"they" refers to the songs. So it will always be feminine since canciones is a feminine word; it doesn't matter who is speaking or whose favorite songs they are.
    Just like "they are my favorite actresses" would be "[ellas] son mis actrices favoritas" even if it was a man who liked the actresses.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    Felicity is correct. This topic is somewhat difficult for native English speakers because we focus on the PERSON who is possessing the NOUN instead of the noun. Here are a few examples that might help:

    Tu carro = your car (you could be male/female/genderfluid; the car is singular and ALWAYS masculine).

    Mi silla = my chair (I could be male/female/genderfluid; the chair is singular and ALWAYS feminine).

    Nuestro carro = our car (we could be all male/all female/mixed genders; the car is singular and ALWAYS masculine).

    Nuestro invitado = our guest (we could be all male/all female/mixed genders; this particular guest is singular and male).

    Nuestra invitada = our guest (we could be all male/all female/mixed genders; this particular guest is singular and female).

    Nuestros invitados = our guests (we could be all male/all female/mixed genders; there are more than one guests & they could be all male/all female/mixed genders).

    Nuestras invitadas = our guests (we could be all male/all female/mixed genders; these particular guests are ALL female).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dinah862515

    Ellas....accepted. canciones/fem


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thea.Rodriguez

    I assumed ellos/ellas means a group of men/women not they as in a group of things... so this pronoun is not only used in relation to people and verb conjugation?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    You're correct. Because inanimate objects have gender in Spanish, you need "they" to have gender as well. English speakers think of "silla" as "it," but it's "her" in Spanish.

    HOWEVER, it's very common to simply omit "ellos/ellas" even when talking about people:

    Son las hijas de Gabriel. = THEY are Gabriel's daughters.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jml646982

    Thanks Shehadi7 'cause that's what I put but wondered why it was wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joel558018

    Exact same problem. Just redo without the ellos.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hightower5

    I did that too but I suspect it should have been ellAs not ellOs


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jim8161
    Mod
    • 462

    canciones is feminine, so if that is used, then it must be ellas (if included)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cat856084

    Why is "estas son mis canciones favoritas' not accepted?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianRPBrown

    Because estas means these, and the sentence says they.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ashwinkrish

    What would be the translation for 'they' then? Plural of 'Es'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicity359602

    It would be ellas, but it's more natural to drop it and just use son (which means "they are" on its own), especially when you're talking about an inanimate object.

    From https://www.thoughtco.com/using-subject-pronouns-spanish-3079374:

    ... Subject pronouns in Spanish are used primarily for clarity or emphasis.
    These are called personal subject pronouns to distinguish them from the demonstrative pronouns, the equivalent of words such as "this" and "those."
    Note that even though él, ella, ellos, and ellas usually refer to people or animals, they can on occasion refer to inanimate objects, with the pronoun matching the grammatical gender of the object or objects being referred to.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rajsinghusa

    Why not "esas" instead of "ellas"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulmacd

    See MikeMelosh's response to dan.vegan4life. "Esas" = "those".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Haley345988

    Is it not unnatural to be using el/ella in this sentence? I feel like in English it would more likely be said as these or those are my favorite songs, but not they.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EseEmeErre

    You can use subject pronoun here, but it is a bit odd. The sentence is complete without it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd144299

    Quite unnatural in English. I would never use They in this case, it would always be These or Those.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    The construction in English sounds just fine to me here in the American Southwest. "They are my favorite cookies."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sanjibi

    esas canciones son mis favoritas was rejected. What's wrong with having esas on there?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianRPBrown

    Becased esas means those, not they.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeloPolyglot

    Why not estan ? A favorite song is not something permanent, is it ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicity359602

    Try not to just think of it as temporary vs. permanent; that's a common but often misleading simplification.

    Ser is used for descriptions of what things really are, even if those descriptions won't last forever. Like "he's a student"; he won't be a student forever but you still use ser. Estar is used for conditions/states that things are in, and locations.

    "My favorite songs" is actually a definition of what these things are, it doesn't matter if I have different favorite songs next month, it's still going to use ser. I hope that helps clear things up a little.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosa235487

    I thought I read something in a lesson somewhere on Spanish dict that said that if you felt strongly to emphasize you could put the adjective before the noun. Can anyone confirm this? And couldn't favorite be put in front of song in this case?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    You're on the right track, but not quite right. As you know, in Spanish, the adjective usually follows the noun. In some cases, it is grammatically correct to place the adjective before the noun, but that CHANGES the meaning of the adjective-noun phrase slightly. This is discussed quite well in this link: http://www.softschools.com/spanish/word_order_for_adjectives_in_spanish/


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulmacd

    I am trying to practice the long-form possessive adjectives, so my answer was "Son las canciones favoritas mías", but it was not accepted. Is it wrong or just not in the database?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    I don't think that's the way these work.

    According to Span¡shD¡ct, "A Spanish possessive pronoun (pronombre posesivo), such as mío or suyo, is used in place of a noun and a possessive adjective." And the examples: "Esta casa es la suya./This house is yours." or "Tu coche es mejor que el mío./Your car is better than mine." See https://www.spanishdict.com/guide/possessive-pronouns-in-spanish.

    Look at it this way: We wouldn't say "They're MINE favorite songs." So we wouldn't use the Spanish equivalent ("mias") in the manner you have.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulmacd

    Thanks, my Spanish teacher has also told me my usage is incorrect, but I still haven't worked out why it's wrong. One of my textbooks gives the examples "Un amigo mío" and "Una idea suya", and https://www.spanishdict.com/guide/possessive-adjectives-in-spanish gives "¿Dónde están esos zapatos tuyos?" and "Esta es mi silla y aquella es la silla tuya." I can't see the difference in structure to the sentence I have given above. I must be missing something. I'll have to do a bit more digging.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    Thanks for the link!

    "Long-form possessive adjectives are placed after the noun they modify. In the case of long-form possessive adjectives, you do often use an article (such as el or la) before the adjective if you are talking about a common noun."

    I think that the translations of the sentences you quoted are important (since I can't highlight on this DB, I've used capital letters for emphasis):

    ¿Dónde están esos zapatos tuyos? = Where are those shoes OF YOURS?

    Esta es mi silla y aquella es LA silla tuya. = This is my chair and that one is your chair.

    I've done some more research as well and haven't yet found an answer. It could be, as this ThoughtCo. article says, "The short form is more common, and in some cases, the long form can be somewhat awkward or have a slight literary flavor." See https://www.thoughtco.com/possessive-adjectives-long-form-3079104.

    Or it could be that the long form possessive adjective is just awkward because we have another adjective "favoritas" right next to it?

    I thought I found the answer when an article said to compare: "my sweet child" with "sweet child of mine." (the latter being the long form possessive) But then the article never translated that exact phrase! I cannot find an article that has both a regular adjective ("favoritas" or sweet) and a long form possessive adjective! See https://www.spanish411.net/Spanish-Indicating-Possession.asp (an otherwise really good article)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulmacd

    I asked my teacher (from Bilbao, but teaches Castilian) about this again today, and she tells me that my usage above, and the examples above from SpanishDict are incorrect. "Esta es mi silla y aquella es la silla tuya", should be "Esta es mi silla y aquella es la tuya" (without the repetition of silla). I do wonder if this might be another difference between Latin American and Iberian Spanish. Perhaps a Latin American Spanish speaker could comment?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    At this point, it could be a STYLISTIC rather than a grammatical issue. Your teacher is correct in that his/her version is much better stylistically. But I don’t think that SpanishDict’s answer is grammatically incorrect. And there may be times that one need the added emphasis of repeating the noun.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMyers7

    I thought you couldn't conjugate two words in the same sentence? Or is it two verbs?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicity359602

    "Conjugation" is a term that only applies to verbs (so the only thing conjugated in this sentence is son, from ser). When the ending of an adjective changes (e.g. favoritas vs favorito, or mis vs mi), that isn't conjugation; you can have any number of adjectives in a sentence and they will all need the appropriate ending.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maria158643

    I used ellas and it was not accepted


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    Sometimes what we THINK is the error is NOT the actual mistake. It's good to copy and paste (or faithfully reproduce) your entire answer so we can help you spot any hidden errors.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thea.Rodriguez

    I assumed ellos/ellas means a group of men/women but not they as if refering to a group of 'things' ... so this is a pronoun and is not merely used in reference to people and verb conjugation?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caricapr

    What about using "Hay mis canciones favoritas." Doesn't "hay" mean"they are"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulmacd

    No, "hay" means "there are" (or "there is").


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraCecilia

    Paul is correct. It means "there is/are" in the sense of "they exist."

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