"Sa robe"

Translation:Her dress

March 26, 2013

59 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ryaton

I always answer 'his dress' in this one. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

Grammatically, "sa" (or "son" or "ses") may mean either "his" or "her". However they will be understood in conversation by the context. Remember, the choice of "son" vs "sa" is based on the gender of the noun.

  • son livre = his/her book (i.e., you can't say "sa livre")
  • sa pomme = his/her apple

  • For singular, masculine gender nouns, use "mon" (my), "ton" (your), "son" (his/her), "notre" (our), "votre" (your), and "leur" (their). The masculine "mon/ton/son" is also used before feminine gender nouns that begin with a vowel sound or a mute "H".

  • For singular, feminine gender nouns, use "ma" (my), "ta" (your), "sa" (his/her), "notre" (our), "votre" (your), and "leur" (their)
  • For plural nouns of either gender, use "mes" (my), "tes" (your), "ses" (his/her), "nos" (our), "vos" (your), and "leurs" (their).

Without context, we have to guess whether to use "his" or "her" for son/sa/ses. Sometimes the context of the phrase will help. When we need to be more specific, we can say "son livre à elle" = her book, or "sa pomme à lui" = his apple.

For more information, open this link in a browser: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/adjectives_possessive.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeoGalois

Thanks George! Your notes are always helpful. Keep up with the good work! I appreciate that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frenchbreadrules

Could someone please explain to me how sa, ses, ma, mes, etc. works?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookscoffeetea

ma - my (singular) - my dog mes my (plural) - my dogs sa - his/her/its/one's (singular) - sa chat - her car, his cat, one's cat (depends on context really) ses - same as above but plural - ses chats - his cats, her cats, one's cats, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredKSmith

This is correct, except it would be 'son chat' because 'chat' is masculine. In French, the gender of possessive adjectives is decided by the object, not the subject. So 'sa robe' doesn't mean 'her dress' by default. It can mean 'his dress' or 'its dress' depending on the context.

Basically;

Mon - Ma - Mes (1st person) Ton - Ta - Tes (2nd person) Son - Sa - Ses (3rd person)

-on is masculine -a is feminine -es is plural regardless of gender.

And remember it's the gender (and number) of the object that determines the gender (and number) of the possessive adjective, not the gender of the subject. i.e. it doesn't matter who is doing the action. This is partly why knowing the gender of nouns is so important.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaggsQ

I understand the gender specific possessives to gender specific objects, but is there a way to clarify that the dress belongs to a her versus a him other than saying 'Il a une robe' or 'Elle a une robe'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

You can say "sa robe à elle" (her dress) and "sa robe à lui" (his dress).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshDietri1

I heard ça robe. I'm sure there is a reason that's wrong. I would love to know why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anaparastasis

Because it would be like saying "it dress" in English; i..e., it makes no sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamDeLisl

Would it not mean "that dress" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

No, that would be cette robe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steven193851

I said 'ça robe' as well. I guess the context here (i.e. we're in the possessives module) should have made it clear that it was 'sa robe'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arthur0703

Ça - that=it. Ça is used only with verbs. And ce/cette/ces is used with nouns.

Ça fait - it/that makes.

Ce livre - that/this book.

Be careful!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awesome24712

I am a native English speaker. Now in my experience, whenever there is a person (not an object) whose gender is undefined, you can use "they" and "their" as singular pronouns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

This is the way it historically has been, until the 19th century, when English started becoming an international language. The word "they" would always be learned first as a plural pronoun by foreigners learning English, which is probably where the common confusion stems from.

I argue that "their dress" should be an acceptable translation of "sa robe"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

You won't find much use of the "singular they" on Duolingo. If it says "son/sa/ses", choose either "his" or "her", not "they", which is "leur/leurs".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/budsofmay

singular they "their dress" is a better translation than "his dress" or "her dress" because the french sentence doesn't refer to the gender of the dress owner... forcing us to use his or hers adds information at random to the translation that isn't there in the source. not to mention the fact that i use singular they in my regular speech and having to police it or get docked over this linguistic elitism (i doubt it's ignorance seeing how long the french course has been up) is really tiring..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

You will not see the "singular they" much at all on Duolingo. You are learning that "sa/son/ses" can mean either "his" or "her" and "leur/leurs" is "they". If you need to be more specific in distinguishing between his and her, here is how you do that:

  • son livre = (grammatically, it could be either) his book (or) her book.
  • son livre à lui = his book
  • son livre à elle = her book

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/twcyu

Is the context the only way to decide whether the object belongs to a male or female? Like if you said "sa robe", how would one know whether it refers to a male or female's belongings?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliteIman

From the context. You can say it explicitly if you're afraid the listener might not grasp the gender, like when you were talking about a girl and a boy in the previous sentence, but in like 99% of the time, it's clear from the context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

Grammatically, the possessive words (son/sa) can both be either "his" or "hers". In normal conversation, however, they will be understood based on the context. When you need to more clearly specify that it is "hers" (not "his"), you can add something to be clear:

  • sa robe = (could grammatically be either) his/her dress
  • sa robe à elle = her dress
  • sa robe à lui = his dress

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlashGrrl

So why not elle robe?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akurzias

That is because "elle" is not the possesive pronoun "son/sa". Saying "Elle robe" would mean "she dress (a noun)" which doesn't sound quite right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niki_dh

Is sa for his and her


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

Yes, and for "its" also, but only for feminine singular nouns starting with consonants.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erawolf

so 'sa' means her his and its?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

Yes, because in French, the possessive adjectives agree with the object being possessed, not the possessor, as in English. So any of son, sa and ses can be translated as any of "his", "her" or "its". They simply aren't used in the same way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Louisa62

What is the difference between tu and vous?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2067

"Tu" is the subject pronoun for "you" (singular, familiar, used for speaking to a friend). "Vous" is the pronoun for "you" which may be either singular (but a more polite form) or plural. Tu es très gentil(le) = you are very kind. Vous êtes très gentil(le) (singular). Vous êtes très gentils/gentilles (plural).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Louisa62

Thanks! I had that kind of idea but wanted to confirm. Here's a lingot, if you use them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rapha.rlj1101

This is just a question... In the sentence, "je bois votre eau" why isn't the 'e' omitted as it is in the phrase "l'eau"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

Some words elide, some don't. There are a few exceptions, but this is a good rule : only one syllable words ending in 'e' elide. La also elides, but it seems an exception.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/madeofmorebees

Is there any difference pronunciation-wise between ça and sa?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

A very subtle one that is lost to some natives (so if you don't pronounce them differently, nobody will misunderstand you). Ça should be pronounced with an open 'a', as if there was a grave accent on it (à), whereas sa is pronounced with a 'a' a bit closer, like in la (like if it was higher pitch).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_._ady_._

What's the difference between "Elle" and "Sa"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

They are completely different words.

  • Elle is a pronoun (it replaces a noun), which could translate to "she" when it is used as a subject or "her" when it is used as a stressed indirect object (as in "to her", not as in "her friend"). It is feminine, because it stands for a feminine noun (not (only) a female person).
  • Sa is a possessive adjective (it accompanies a noun to give it a property, here an owner). It can be translated to either of "his", "her", "its" or "one's" as in "his friend" (not as in "this is his"). It is feminine because it accompanies a feminine noun (it says nothing about the gender of the owner, only that it is one (third person) owner that is neither the person talking (first person) or the one being talked to (second person)).

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CCruSi

What is difference between ce robe and sa robe?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

Ce is a masculine singular demonstrative pronoun, it can't be used with robe because it is feminine. The correct demonstrative pronoun to use would be cette.

Cette robe : this dress
Sa robe : his/her/its dress


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronalyncas

it is not possible to say "elle robe" and why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BastouXII

Because elle is a pronoun. It could be either a subject pronoun (elle a une robe; "she has a dress") or a stressed object pronoun (je la donne à elle; "I give it to her").

Here, in front of a noun (robe; "dress"), we need a determiner kind of word, either an article (the, a, one...) or an adjective (his, this, some...). The French third person singular possessive adjectives are son (masculine, for masculine nouns - not possessor, like in English, i.e. son =/= "his") and sa (feminine, for feminine nouns starting with consonants, for feminine nouns starting with a vowel, use the masculine one).

Since robe is a feminine noun in French and it starts with a consonant, we use sa (which says nothing about the owner of the dress, it could be a man, a woman, a dog, anything or anyone; context will tell).


[deactivated user]

    if you said elle robe that would say 'she dress' it doesn't make sence unless you say 'elle robes' (she dresses)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heysweetie

    so, I assume "sa/son" means "someone's".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deilann

    No, it means his or hers.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne_adams

    Sa/her is the feminine possessive. Son/his is the masculine possessive. In french the possessive matches the object not the person.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
    • 2067

    "Sa" does not mean "her" and "son" does not mean "his". You know that the adjective matches the object (you just said so). "Sa" may mean either "his" or "her". "Son" may mean either "his" or "her".

    • son livre (m) = (could be either) his book (or) her book
    • son livre à elle = her book
    • son livre à lui = his book
    • sa pomme (f) = (could be either) his apple (or) her apple
    • sa pomme à elle = her apple
    • sa pomme à lui = his apple

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OwenWilly

    I need lingots please give

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