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"Había muerto mucha gente en ese lugar."

Translation:A lot of people had died in that place.

March 27, 2013

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CGiattino

Another randomly macabre sentence from Duolingo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/errant1

The sentence I just got before this was talking about somebody's whole family being killed...

DL needs therapy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvaSivenCo

in my case amongst the sentences was "ellas habían dirigido el país" which implied to me something like "in the time of butterflies" (1994/2001) by julia alvarez. basically the assassination of the mirabal sisters in 1960. if it helps, there was 1 surviving sister named Dedé who died of natural causes in 2014, outlived that dictatorship & got to see her sisters memorialized & honored.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tnmcleod

I would really like to know why the subject is after the verb. It sounds vaguely Yoda-ish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Away put your weapon, Tnmcleod. When level 25 attain, understand you will.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carnaedy

Because you can put it that way (verb-subject) in Spanish. It emphasizes the fact that people DIED (as opposed to lived) in that place instead of that PEOPLE died (as opposed to animals) in that place, which is meant by the more natural subject-verb order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcgwn

I thought others might also want to know some generalizations about word order so here's a link that may be helpful. Emphasis appears to the best fit.

http://spanish.about.com/od/word-order/a/verb-before-subject.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brendals

can i say, mucha gente habia muerto en ese lugar.....? is semantic order important?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rspreng

Who knows? :) It is confusing. It seems that either order is "OK" but that the subject often follows the verb, especially when sentences get longer and more complicated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayne

(my non expert opinion) I would have used that order for a statement, and would have used the duolingo order for a question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewOpe

Yes you can say it like that. I live in México and that's right


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/warrio1010

Why is it not 'Habian'? Wouldn't 'A lot of people' be 'they (ellos/ellas)'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/namayani

"la gente," though it refers to many people, its a singular noun. You can think of it as "the crowd" or "a group of people." Notice how in English you'd have (I;m using present perfect here to indicate the difference) "Many people have died here" vs "a large crowd/group of people has died here" (I know it sounds a bit odd, but jsut trying to illustrate this)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnoj

not ok to use "in that location" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeWeiss

I'm confused as to why this isn't muchas personas I remember someone on here once saying that gente refers more to a people rather than some people. Like germans or republicans for example


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

In some cases either is acceptable. I think "muchas personas" should be OK here. Did you use "habian" with it, or "habia"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aathompson43

... but look at these walk-in closets!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linguismo

Please if anyone can explain, why don't we need direct object pronoun 'la' before verb phrase? I am really trying hard to understand when to use them and when not to. Just seems random sometimes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kcmurphy

When you use a direct object pronoun, it is because an action is being performed on the object. In this case, many people died; nothing is happening to them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/limpidus

Does it have to refer to 'la gente'? Can't it be 'I had killed a lot of people in that place' or 'He had killed a lot of people at that place'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindafraser

The meaning of the words "había muerto" is "had died". To say "had killed", you would say "había matado" instead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rakudajin

"there had died a lot of people in that place"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@Rakudajin
No.

I am not exactly sure what you question is. But I understand one thing: Your translation is wrong. If you are fluent in English, then why would you write an English sentence like this?

Remove the word, there. You should place the subject of your English sentence at the beginning of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fpetraitis

"there were a lot of dead people in that place" seems make sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@fpetraitis
Wrong tense. You failed to create a sentence in the past perfect tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tristan147258

It says habia is she had but there is no "she had" in the sentence...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Había is the general 1st- and 3rd-person singular imperfect tense of the helping verb haber, so it's mainly used in forming the past perfect tense. This conjugation form is usually translated as "I had", "he had", "she had", "it had", or "you had" (usted form).

The main verb in this sentence is morir - to die. It's an intransitive verb, so it doesn't take an object, so the only person mentioned here - mucha gente - must be the subject. It's the people who had died, not she.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stockon

The whole sentence resembles: "A lot of people in this place have died" yet this phrase is not accepted? Fix your shit Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@stockon
You made a mistake.

that place ― not this place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juicy_Maffews

Why isn't morir conjugated to "habia morido"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Simplest answer: it's irregular. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@RyagonIV
Don't oversimplify. You neglected to explain that muerto is not even a conjugation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Muerto is the participle form of morir, simple as that. This sentence is a past-perfect sentence, so it needs an imperfect form of haber plus the participle of the full verb. Whether you call the participle form a conjugation is up to you, but the asker clearly knew that a participle form should be used here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@RyagonIV

quote:
Muerto is the participle form of morir, simple as that.
unquote

The idea of simplicity is an issue of disagreement between the two of us. As I already told you before, it is not as simple as that.

quote: Whether you call the participle form a conjugation is up to you... unquote

Try not to lose sight of the fact that my reply is my effort to help you and also my effort to help all the readers. Whatever we collectively choose to call it is not up to me alone. If we work together, our dialogue can be about both you and me and everyone ― not all about me alone.

Here is a link to a web page where we can all read the opinion of someone else who has an opinion about whether a participle is a conjugation or not.

quote:
...but the asker clearly knew that a participle form should be used here.
unquote

Do you want to deny that Juicy_Maffews asked how the verb is conjugated? If you turn a blind eye to a portion of the words in the post by Juicy_Maffews, then you can pretend that Juicy_Maffews "clearly" understood whatever. But do your readers believe you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say, ultimately. I mean, what's not simple about muerto being the participle of morir?

If you think you could have answered the asker's question better, then please do so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

Ryagon described his answer as "simplest", which it was. If his answer had been inaccurate then you would have every right to correct him, but you are telling him how he should answer based solely on information you deem particularly important.

I actually think your point is one worth making, but it could have been made as a response to the original question without criticising a valid answer made by an excellent contributor to this forum.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

@jellonz

quote:
If his answer had been inaccurate... unquote:

This is the central issue that you and I are disagreeing about. Our disagreement is this: I think his answer was inaccurate (partially). But you think his answer was accurate.

quote:
...you would have every right to correct him, but you are telling him how he should answer based solely on information you deem particularly important.
unquote

Your words (in the preceding quote) do not make sense to me. Perhaps this is because you did not articulate what you really meant to say. I don't know what you were trying to tell me (in the quote). Are you saying there was some information that I neglected to consider? If this is what you meant, then why didn't you tell me what I overlooked?

quote:
...your point is one worth making, but it could have been made as a response to the original question without criticising a valid answer... unquote

Try to understand my point of view. The purpose of my post was to tell him that he made a mistake. The purpose of my post was to criticize his answer. I feel that I achieved a measure of success. Next time, I plan to do the same thing. And I believe that I am doing good deeds.

I imagine that I might eventually learn something from you if I keep reading your posts. But this particular post that you wrote does not say anything that causes me to reconsider.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

Thanks Phillip. My wording was clumsy in that second quote. I was saying that Ryagon's answer was not inaccurate, but merely lacking information that you personally deemed important. As he had described his answer as "simplest" I believe it was unfair to state it was lacking information that many would consider non-vital. You may believe that information was vital, but given that it pertained to the wording of the original question rather than the answer obviously being sought, I don't.

Even though I consider it non-vital, I do agree that it was information worth adding, and I wrongly believed that this was the primary intention of your post. As you have stated, the actual purpose of your post was to instruct Ryagon on how he should have answered.

Again, you and I differ on this matter. I'm all for additional information, but would never presume to tell someone how they should have answered unless their answer was inaccurate. Ryagon answered the core question in the simplest possible way. He did not address the incorrect wording of that question, but this does not make his answer inaccurate.

You may still disagree with that, and that's fine. It's clear that you are intelligent, probably well educated, perhaps even an educator, and I don't doubt I will learn something from your posts. That said, I think most people on the DL forum would rather learn from constructive posts than confrontational ones. While I love debate, many DL users consider it unwanted and irrelevant, and when there is no Spanish being discussed I understand that perspective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StacyKincer

The word bank did not provide the word for place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

The Spanish course is very oversaturated with possible answers, so you might have to look for a synonym, like "spot" or "location".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChicoMalo2

What's wrong with "location" instead of "place"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Nothing wrong with that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael189866

I'm not so sure that ''had died'' sounds right, unless the people were the walking dead. When would anyone say this, rather than simply ''a lot of people died in that place'' ? I guess it sounds odd in Spanish too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Past-perfect sentences always require a bit of context, because, by definition, that tense refers to an event that happened before a reference point in the past. For example: "No one wanted to move to the town because many people had died there due to an unknown illness years before."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipMcN2

Spot on! Excellent answer!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nBnQ2

I believe that en can be either in or at when translated to English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dave2ethel

Could it be -- mucha gente en ese lugar habia muerto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

"Many people in that place had died." It sounds a bit weirder, but is also a fine sentence. It's not a proper translation of the English, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan913755

This whole section sounds like crime show!

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