"We read that newspaper."

Translation:हमने वह अख़बार पढ़ा।

July 23, 2018

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Kateykr

Hamne ... doesn't that require ...paRe - (not ...paRaa) ?

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/emrys29

This sentence is in the past tense. If the verb had been "eat", the sentence would be - We ate that newspaper.

In this particular case, the verb ending is fixed for almost all pronouns. I'll use the word Eat because Read(present) and Read(past) have the same spelling.

मैंने खाया - I ate.
तुमने खाया - You ate.
हमने खाया - We ate.
लड़कियों ने खाया - The girls ate.
लड़कों ने खाया - The boys ate.
लड़की ने खाया - A/The girl ate.

Similarly, पढ़ा can be used across all these pronouns with the same result.

All verbs of Hindi acquire this form with some minor change. I can't remember any specific rule on how this happens. You'll just have to memorise different verbs, I guess.

A few examples
आना Aana - आया Aaya(came)
छूना Chhuna - छुआ chhua (touched)
तैरना Tairna - तैरा Taira (swam)
नाचना Naachna - नाचा Naacha(danced)

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

Mostly any intransitive verb doesn't use the ergative case.

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kateykr

Wow... in 12 years learning languages that is the FIRST time I've ever seen the word "ergative" always so much to learn, thanks

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

There's an ergative case involved here? Is that what the ने indicates?

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RanzoG

जी!

You won't often see the terminology "ergative" in Hindi pedagogy though, FYI. (I mention it just in case you go searching for additional resources.) One rarely sees any case referred to besides "direct case" and "oblique case." I'd guess because there are only a few words that look any different in ergative compared to the umbrella "oblique" case, and they figure it is easier to learn these exceptions rather than explain ergative case as such.

(Interestingly, I know that Punjabi has "locative case," but I'm don't know if that is possible in Hindi.)

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

Ah, OK, great. I'm still, then struggling to understand what this /ne/ ending or particle is doing, then. (And feel free to ignore my ergative comment on an earlier post.)

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

Yes. Hindustani has split-ergativity. In perfective tenses, the subject of a transitive verb is in the ergative case.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

OK, that's why it was so confusing to me. The only ergative I have ever used is in Basque, and it is used in all tenses.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

Oh and also, the verb agrees with the object.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RanzoG

Hi Kateykr, I think you're asking about why paRā is inflected that way, i.e. masculine-singular. It's because it's agreeing with the word अख़बार. It's agreeing with अख़बार because "to read" is a transitive verb. Hindi gets all wacky when transitive verbs show up to the party. All of a sudden, the snooty subjects feel the need to shield themselves from the contamination of those dirty stinkin' transitive verbs by putting up a परदह (curtain)! The pardah is... ने. On the हम side of the pardah, people are doing their thing, and on the अख़बार side they're doing other stuff.

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

In Hindi, it's spelt पर्दा

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RanzoG

Thanks! My brain was transliterating from the Arabic alphabet, i.e. پرده in Urdu :) I don't make much use of that floating /r/ thingey in Devanagari! I think they should just get rid of it, along with the conjunct letters :o

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

Conjunct letters are important if you wanna make sure that people don't read the schwa. Like in the word gird. It's useless in words like Parda where there is schwa deletion evident. However, your Urdu mind fooled you into thinking we'd use h for pardā. Many words ending in ہ in Urdu spelling actually end in ा in Hindi. An exception to that might be the word جگہ, which is spelt जगह because of its pronunciation jagêh. However, in the southern dialects, it is actually pronounced jagā or jaghā.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RanzoG

Pardah is Persian, hence the "proper" spelling in Urdu writing as opposed to the "phonetic" writing of Devanagari. Honestly, it's more challenging to remember how things are spelled in Urdu, so I don't mind having that in my head :)

I disagree about conjunct letters, and that's because I work best in Punjabi Gurmukhi, in which nobody uses conjunct letters and everything gets along just fine. Likewise, in Arabic script/Urdu there is no need to show "schwa deletion." (I know that it can be shown.)

Incidentally, in Punjabi جگہ is /jaghā/, or rather ਜਗਾਹ. These are not typos! It's a weird thing!!: -The Punjabi word is pronounced as /jaghā/ - The Punjabi word is written in Gurmukhi as /ਜਗਾਹ/ - The Punjabi word is written in Arabic as جگہ, i.e. the same as in Hindi, even though it is pronounced differently, and completely ignoring the sound in the pronunciation represented by the /h/ and /ਹ/! So you can see why mera dimaag kharaab ho jaae!

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

Actually in standard Punjabi, it's ਜਗ੍ਹਾ. And in Gurmukhi, many people do add schwa to such words. Skūl become sakūl. Fikr becomes fikar. So it's better to show it in conjuncts if you don't pronounce it with a schwa.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RanzoG

But the words ARE sakūl and fikar! It's not "in Gurmukhi" that people are adding schwa, it's in their pronunciation. It's not as if they need the spelling to tell them the pronunciation; they know the pronunciation and see a written word representing a word... without needing the confusion of a zillion extra symbols.

ਜਗ੍ਹਾ is the same thing. I can't find the key on my Unicode keyboard to make the subscript ਹ!! That's why you'll see people write it like I did. The ਹ's shift position a lot... there's no definitive "standard" Punjabi in that sense -- as evidence that the Arabic-script writers don't even know how/where to stick the /h/ in there to represent the tone, lol.

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoaoDSouza

That's what I mean. The system of Gurmukhi suits there because of the pronunciation. Here, not so much because here it's actually (i)skūl and fikr

August 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kateykr

RanzoG, hahaha such a clever, intuitive teacher

July 23, 2018
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