"Take your apple from her and give her her banana."

Translation:उससे अपना सेब लो और उसे उसका केला दो।

July 25, 2018

69 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DmitrijSil

This sentence is a killer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ihsanhassa

Usse Uske aapna/e - how does one know which to use to mean hers/his mine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

A few things here:

1) In Hindi, the gender (and plurality) agreement is with the object possessed, not the possessor(s). So from वह उसका सेब है‍ 'vah uska seb hai', we actually don't know whether it's her/his apple, we just know that apples are masculine (and that this sentence is referring to a singular apple).

2) usse (उससे) is not possessive, it's roughly 'from him/her'. (उस being the oblique form of वह, and से being से)।

3) apna/e (short a, not long aa like aap आप‍ 'you') is the reflexive pronoun, it refers back to the subject, so we know it means hers/his/mine (or their/that's/this's/...) from whichever was the subject. आप को अपनी समझ आ रही है -‍ aap ko apni samajh aa rahi hai - your (apna) understanding is coming to you (subject).

(And note my example in 3 is another example of 1 - I gather from your display photo that you're male, but समझ is a feminine noun, so it's अपनी, and आ‍ रही to you anyway, not अपना and आ रहा।)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben_Stallings

The answer displayed when you give a wrong answer, "अपना सेब उससे लेके उसका केला उसे दो।", does not look right (it doesn't say और, for example) and is not possible to enter with the provided words (लेके is not one of the words available).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

It's subtly (or not so subtly) teaching us a new concept: conjunctive participles. https://hindilanguage.info/hindi-grammar/verbals/participles/conjunctive-participles/
This site calls it pluperfect: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hindi/Verbs

It's basically a way to connect two clauses without using conjunctions. Hence the form लेके. What I'm getting a bit confused about is why apna was not used in both clauses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

1. Addressing your question:

In both clauses, the person being spoken to is the same person. I.e. it's the person who is being told what to do.

But the possessor of the thing being exchanged is different between the clauses.

you take your apple

you give her her banana

Apna applies in the first clause (and only there) because the possessor is the same person as the subject.

2. Grateful!

Thanks for doing the legwork and finding the good references. That's worth 5 lingots. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

thanks, appreciate it

i thought it would be more like give her HER OWN apple, so apna would be there too. but it makes sense that apna relates to the person being spoken to, not the possessor, this would coincide with russian then.

btw, now that i'm looking at this 5 months later, i don't see the conjunctives, i just see और, perhaps duo changed it, simplified it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angela358686

Absolutely correct. They have surprised us with this new (for us) grammatical form "leke" in the middle of a sentence with other things which are already complicated. What fun. Btw it's aapna seb because its your (own) apple, but uska kela because it's her banana.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alephsis405

Its not used because the subject of the sentence posses the apple not the banana


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LongTermLearner

Same here and the translation "अपना सेब उससे लो और उसका केला उसे दो" does not appear either among the three possible answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Malatimanjari

I did not see any possible answer. Tried to figure out how to type in Hindi, but this never happened before. They always give options. Probably something wrong here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JocelyneAn18

same happened to me...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_sparsh_

Change your key board i know i am an indian i know hindi, English and Spanish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Poplet1

Yes, I noticed that word isn't available. Not sure how to get past it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoanneSbungee

what is लेके? I mean, it seems to mean "take", but why isn't it लो?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MicahFrahm

लेके is ‘ take and then ‘


[deactivated user]

    Can someone explain the difference between usse and uskaa? I also dont quite understand when to use unka and unha


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark347251

    usse = from her. use (== us ko) = to her. uska = hers (of her)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

    Today's correct multiple-choice answer: उससे अपना सेब लेके उसे उसका केला दो

    I've been reviewing imperatives twice a week for a couple months, and this is the first time I've seen the conjunctive used. But judging by this conversation, it's something they rotate in and out over time. Follow the links maz1269 gave in his August 9, 2019 response. There's good content there for folks who are seeing conjunctives for the first time.

    FYI another way of translating this Hindi back to English is "Taking your apple from her, give her her banana." In English, we call "taking your apple from her" a "participle clause". Hindi does essentially the same thing, but because of the Hindi word order, the form of verb used (here लेके) plays a role similar to the English conjunction "and". (One article on this: https://english.lingolia.com/en/grammar/sentences/participle-clauses)

    So, think of the Hindi conjunctive form of a verb as a "custom conjunction". :-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GoWiP

    Interesting, never had the conjunctive indeed. Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lupinelydia

    I'm rusty so this may be a dumb question, but isn't banana an object here? Should it be "use kele" instead of "usa kela"?


    [deactivated user]

      I wrote "उसका केला उसे दो", shouldn't that be correct as well?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emrys29

      The meaning is the same but you changed the word order.
      उसका केला उसे दो = give her banana to her


      [deactivated user]

        Yeah I know, but the word order isn't so relevant here, is it? I mean, the word order is different in Hindi and in English, I don't know if it's really good to try to keep it as similar as possible.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GoWiP

        Wow, I had to choose from 3 so chose the correct one, but I always try the sentences myself. What I came up with:

        उससे तुम्हारा सेब लो और उसे अपना केला दो।

        Is that an alternative or wrong somewhere? Thanks!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SMENAHA

        I'm not a native hindi speakerbut I like to share how I helped me with this sentence. So tell me guys is the following understanding is correct.

        First I read

        Your apple from her -> Upna seb usse

        And then I read take -> lo

        And->Aur

        Give her her banana -> Usse uska kela dho

        I meant I read the verbs last and make sentence like this

        Hope this is correct and it helps. ^_^


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

        I wrote: [...] और उसे उसके केला दो।

        The correction was simply उसके -> उसका, but isn't it oblique? The correction should have been केला -> केले, leaving उसके as it was, shouldn't it?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

        No, you don't use oblique for direct objects. You're giving the banana (direct object - direct case) to her.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

        Agh, thanks, yes, that was silly.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juhani.juurik

        I don't understand why the following is wrong: उससे अपना सेब लो और उसको उसका केला दो. Aren't उसे and उसको supposed to function the same way here as "her" meaning "to her"?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

        You are correct. You should report it next time you run into it.

        All: FYI उसे is a contraction of उसको. The contracted form tends to be used more often, but they mean the same thing.


        [deactivated user]

          Seriously DuoLingo?! We still haven't learned basic expressions like "Excuse me/sorry", "Nice to meet you", " Do you speak English" etc! Please give us a basic knowledge of useful phrases before teaching us complex sentences!!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          Duolingo isn't a phrase book, each lesson teaches something new about the language in terms of grammar (or script in the early ones in Hindi's case) and vocabulary is mostly a side-effect.

          Questions have been taught by this point, and options for the verb 'speak' have been encountered. 'English' maybe hasn't, but that can be easily looked up, and 'American' definitely has - so it's an easy substitution and grammatically the same. FYI, it's अंग्रेज़ी (or a person अंग्रेज़).

          So: क्या आप अंग्रेज़ी बोलते हैं? (Or other gender/respect forms as also covered in earlier lessons.)


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wilbur111

          "Do you speak English?" is perhaps the most useless phrase to learn ever.

          Let's say it's "pong lok dik how?" and they reply "nam dik car hey"… if you don't have enough words, you're going to have to revert back to English regardless of whether their reply meant "yes", "no", "I don't understand your accent" or "I'd love to".

          If you need to ask, you're probably about to revert to English, loud noises and hand gestures anyway… no matter what they say.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Izzy666334

          What's the difference between उसे and उससे?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          In most cases you can read them as 'to him' (or her or it) and 'by/with/from him' (or her or it).

          The grammatical answer is that उसे is the dative form of वह - it's a contraction of उस को - while उससे is the instrumental. i.e. in other words your question is को vs से।


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JocelyneAn18

          no hindi words on that page. can't answer!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

          Would it be fine to replace उसका by अपना?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_jesuisbrun_

          Let's assume, for clarity's sake, that the three people referred to here are you(the speaker), a boy and a girl.

          उसका refers to the girl's, as in, the girl's banana.

          Using अपना instead would mean your, i.e. the speaker's banana.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pauline285593

          It seemed I wrote the correct answer but the response was not granted!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkb0WF

          There is a mistake because it is not "lo' in the proposed sentence


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraysonElliott

          It's rather vexatious that they omitted the lesson for these very complex concepts, which are suddenly much more complex than preceding lessons. I understand the methodology of just throwing us into the language as one would experience in real life speaking with locals, yet this is too complicated to pick up the nuance they're asking us to distinguish with no prior explanation. This is the first lesson where I'm finding myself having to take substantial breaks from Duolingo to reference other sources (i.e. learning-hindi.com) to familiarize myself with the relevant concepts first.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Glenn164427

          The above answer is not the same answer given when you get it wrong: "Usay apna sib lo Aur Usa uska kela do" !


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nbbarathy

          उससे अपना सेब ले लो और उसे उसका केला दे दो. Is this wrong?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesNorth68358

          So the English has an "and" in it, but the correct answer in Hindi has no और - am I missing something, as this app is usually very strict on completely literal translations.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesNorth68358

          OK, now I understand the problem. None of the three options given match the correct answer you see at the top of this discussion page, so it's impossible to get this question right. There is however one of the answers which is clearly incorrect that it accepts as correct.

          I'm doing this as practice and I never used to have a problem with this sentence so I guess duolingo has been doing some editing and introduced an error. Hopefully they'll clear it up soon.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          The correct multiple choice answer is the one with लेके, the 'conjunctive' form meaning 'take and then {rest of sentence referring to same direct object}'.

          When not multiple choice, लो और is accepted (from memory).


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

          This was addressed in more detail earlier in the thread. Search it for "Today's correct multiple-choice answer" and for "a way to connect two clauses without using conjunctions"


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kitty816582

          और is missing from the correct choice.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          It uses लेके instead, so it's not needed. See other comments for more info on that form.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Priyadhars117479

          Why they use "usse lheke"


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          usse (उससे) = 'from her'; leke (लेके) = 'take and then' - see the other comments on that; lo aur (लो और) is also accepted in the quesion format where you write it yourself.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nath591093

          Can somebody write this sentences out word for word in english so i understand please


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_jesuisbrun_

          (उससे) (अपना) (सेब) (लो) (और) (उसे) (उसका) (केला) (दो)

          (from him/her) (your own) (apple) (take) (and) (to him/her) (his/her) (banana) (give)


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tony700685

          Why not apnee and uskee...?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OJFord

          They agree with the thing possessed (apple, banana) not the possessor.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamhithaHe

          I need a little help with long sentences so could you pls help


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

          Most of the time, you're given this: "उससे अपना सेब लो और उसे उसका केला दो"

          Split it in half at the "and", i.e. "और". That gives you: "उससे अपना सेब लो", and "उसे उसका केला दो". And you can take it from there with two short sentences.

          The above should cover you for nearly all cases in Duolingo. But ...

          Once in a while, they give an alternate phrasing: "अपना सेब उससे लेके उसका केला उसे दो". This one is trickier because they're using a form of the verb "to take" that doubles as a conjunction. And this construction can be used with any verb. In this case, it's लेके. But if the verb were "to give", you'd see देके instead. The best I can say is read everything you can find in this thread on "conjunctive". I won't repeat the other good explanations here.

          Good luck.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WeraSaethe

          I do not understand the grammatical difference - case positions - between "usse" (taking from) and "use" (giving to).


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

          उसे is a contraction of उसको. If you break that word apart into उस and को, you can see it means "to him/her". This the dative case. Notes: (1) You may see उसको written as two separate words, उस को. (2) The forms involving को are uncommon in everyday speech.

          उससे is simply the words उस (him/her) and से (from/with/by) connected together. उससे is in the instrumental case. I can't recall ever having seen this rendered as two separate words.

          Hope this helps. :-)


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WeraSaethe

          Thank you so much. I wonder if I should have learned about dative versus instrumental case using Duolingo. Should I? I wonder if some written material is available. I sometimes use my Translate App (phone). It does not always agree with Duolingo. All of a sudden GRAMMAR has become complicated. I am fond of Grammar but am not a full-time student!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryCurry3

          I don't recall if any of the Duolingo tips mentioned the dative case. I'm sure they don't mention the instrumental case. Every once in a while, I just put in some extra time diving deep, and I pick up stuff like this along the way.

          Since I'm doing multiple languages, putting extra time into learning the linguistics terminology when working on one language pays off later when I'm focused on a different one.

          :-Jerry


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WeraSaethe

          Yes, this sounds like an intelligent effort. A translator? THANK YOU.

          Learn Hindi in just 5 minutes a day. For free.