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  5. "qeylIS, chomuS'a'?"

"qeylIS, chomuS'a'?"

Translation:Kahless, do you hate me?

July 29, 2018

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

I translated 'do you hate me, kahless?'. This should be a valid translation I think.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

Read the reporting notes. There is a sticky about it. They have asked there or else I read elsewhere that they would like us to stick to the word order of the original sentence for cases like this. Also, if it says {mara torgh je} then translate as "mara and torg" not as "torg and mara".

I think this is reasonable. I have not been a course contributor but I can well deduce that adding dozens or probably hundreds of sentence variations is already a nightmare. Allowing for these additional types of variations would exponentially add to their workload really quite unnecessarily.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Not dozens or even hundreds of variations - make that thousands. Since both gender and tense are non-specific in Klingon grammar and very specific in English grammar, the variations multiply very quickly. On a few of the more complicated sentences I have hit the 3,000 accepted translations limit.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

I had imagined as much as a 100 but a thousand and more was beyond my expectations. Did you quite expect this workload when you signed up for this? I love this course by the way. I am learning so much.

And if you got my hint before you know who I am so you know I already did the entire KLI course and passed the intermediate exam. I consider myself a very, very low intermediate. I am still learning a sugar ton from this course, which I had not expected. I expected to get some good practice and review of vocabulary but I did not realize how much new material I would be learning. I am sure the gratitude of your learners is not quite as meaningful as some actual monetary compensation would be but I am sure it means something to you because you did all this for us. And for the Empire. taHjaj wo'!!

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

I was not able to figure it out from your previous hint, but these hints restrict the choices down quite a bit.

I had no idea what to expect when I signed up. But I will admit that at times, entering the variations would get very tedious and there were even a few sentences where I stopped, knowing variations were still missing and figured we could add them after launch if people actually discovered those particular options were missing. I give mizinamo a lot of credit for the large number of sentences and their numerous translations that he added to this course. He is a BOSS!!!

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loghaD

I give mizinamo a lot of credit for the large number of sentences and their numerous translations that he added to this course. He is a BOSS!!!

wa' DoS wIqIp! ("Seconded!")

I'd half given up on this course multiple times before the two of you joined, and yet, here we are :)

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

there were even a few sentences where I stopped, knowing variations were still missing and figured we could add them after launch if people actually discovered those particular options were missing.

There were more than just "a few sentences" where I felt that way....

And thank you!

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

It was my secret password from ghem....the old targ barks at midnight: wen wen wen. lol. Sleep deprivation may have wiped that memory clean.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Fortunately, we don’t have to enter all of those by hand individually — we have shortcuts that expand, say, [he/she] [bought/buys/will buy/purchased/purchases/will purchase] [the/a] book into 2x6x2=24 sentences for us.

But the multitude still means that we have to be a bit economic sometimes with the variety we can accept.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

That is good. It probably also makes some weird sentences sometimes.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That is correct.

Another reason for being sticklers for word order is that we want to prevent learners from thinking that Klingon is "backwards English" -- that all sentences are "simply read back to front".

The position of the subject and the object are different in the two languages (English is subject–verb–object while Klingon is object–verb–subject), but in general, other words are in the same order -- and so we expect e.g. mara torgh je to be "Mara and Torg", jIqet 'ej jISup to be "I run and I jump", mara, tlhIngan SoH to be "Mara, you are a Klingon", etc.

Accepting (say) "You are a Klingon, Mara" for mara, tlhIngan SoH might strengthen the erroneous assumption that Klingon is backwards English.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

Ah, that is a very good strategy. I think it is right that first language interference would cause many of us to fall into the habit of thinking of it as backwards.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

It's very tempting, in a written medium, even for me, to just read the sentence from the back. But that doesn't always work well in writing and in verbal communication it never works. So better to learn to read from the front and get used to true Klingon word order.

July 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

Wow, I really did not expect so many answers. All very informative, thank you all!

I am kind of new to duolingo (tried it a bit years ago, then stopped... the platform evolved a lot... and there was no tlhngan Hol at the time!).

So forgive me if I made a silly question.

I felt my version felt more natural in English, and that the meaning of it was basically the same, that's all. I understand it can be difficult to automatically validate all "correct" answers, and it is not really that important to get a fail when the answer would be acceptable (it is more exercise, yay!).

In cases like mara je torgh... well' I admit that I kind of thought that I would kind of think that if the subject comes last... then if there are multiple subjects, they would come reversed too. Not that we can actually know that, can we? And I would not matter most of the time, sometimes the order is of importance, sometimes the speaker may think mara torgh je sounds better than torgh mara je.

In the end, the translation is there to verify we understand the phrase, ideally, we need to be able to think in klingon, without translating it.

Cheers! mike-lima (or maybe may-lay is more appropriate in this forum)

July 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuchANoob

So, I'll repeat what the moderators talked. They do that to we don't think that read klingon is just read all reversed. Have times that the order matters. And if we don't remove that habit to read everything _ start in the end to the start of the phrase _ your translation will be very strange. I hope that my comment was useful, at least correct! ^^' Qapla'!

October 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

That's a good summary.

October 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qov-jIH-je

As I am recording phrases, the interface also presents me with user reports (it's a very distracting interface) and sometimes I click yeah or nay on your suggestions of what should be right. I try to only assess the obvious ones, and I may occasionally be undermining the course designers' intentions when I agree that a user's suggestion is a smoother and more natural translation into English. I do mark down overly literal morpheme-by-morpheme translations, per instructions from Duo.

July 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/matthew444605

i am fairly new to duolingo and klingon and i have been writing down my notes on the separtion of the roots prefixes and suffixes but i cant find the points where the prefix ends and the root begins. help would be appreciated

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

All prefixes are one consonant and one vowel. The consonant may be represented by multiple roman letters, like ch or gh, but it's still just one consonant followed by one vowel, like jI-, ma-, che-, or gho-. If it's a prefix, then it will be followed by the consonant that begins the root. The harder part for beginners is often trying to figure out when a word looks like it begins with a prefix, but it's actually just a root that begins with those letters. With time it should all become easier, for now, I hope the above description helps.

Also, I want to make sure that you have read the description in the Tips & Notes. If you have not been reading the Tips & Notes, I would like to ask that you review those so we don’t have to continuously repeat the information that we have explained there.

If you are doing the course on iOS or Android, you cannot currently access the Tips & Notes through the app. To access the Tips & Notes, you will have to access the course using a web browser at https://www.duolingo.com/. You can still do it on your mobile device, but you will have to use the web browser instead of the app (or you can do it from a computer). When you click on a Skill, it will expand to reveal a Start button, a key, and a light bulb.

If you click on the light bulb it will reveal the Tips & Notes and give you a detailed explanation of the grammar that is introduced in that Skill. If you have questions after reading the Tips & Notes for any Skills, then please return to the forum to ask your question, explaining what you didn’t understand or what seems contradictory to you.

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

As @jdmcowan says. Also, bear in mind that almost all verbs are a single syllable long in Klingon, and that most syllable are three (Klingon) letters long, but sometimes they have only two letters. Also, sentences have generally a strictly defined word order: timestamp adverb object verb subject.

January 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loghaD

It's worth noting that there are a handful of exceptions to the rule that all verbs are one syllable, such as He'So' (stink), ghughugh (growl), Qoghogh (snort, make a snorting sound), ghIpDIj (court-martial) and nughI' (give a noogie).

There's also lo'laH (be valuable), which no doubt started out as lo' (use) + -laH (able), but has since diverged in meaning (since lo'laH interpreted as lo' + -laH would mean "can use", rather than "can be used").

You are quite right, though, that thinking in terms of one syllable per morpheme/lexeme usually helps you break things down. You can also remember that every syllable begins with a consonant followed by a vowel.

All syllables can be written in one of the forms

  • CV - Da, 'o, ghu

  • CVC - beb, 'etlh, chagh (this is the most common)

  • CVrgh - Hargh, lurgh, yergh

  • CVy' - Hay', mey', buy'

  • CVw' - waw', tlhaw', ghaw'

Syllables ending in -ow or -uw are "forbidden". Presumably, this also goes for ones ending in -ow' and -uw'.

All known syllables in the CVw' category have a as their vowel, but there is no rule about this. There are no known syllables ending in -Iy'.

Exceptions to these rules are sometimes made for phonetic approximations of alien names, such as jemS tIy qIrq and janluq pIqarD, as well as in certain preserved ancient forms, such as paq'batlh.

January 15, 2019
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