https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jedi10548

Newer French Tree?

Sometimes, I make a new account just as a small test to see if I remember everything by using the placement test, but the last time that I did it, I got a tree that was completely different. It had: Basics 1
Greetings Basics 2
People Travel
Family Activities People 2
Family 2 Restaurant
Test out of 10 skills
etc.
Is this an A/B test, or a glitch, or something else entirely?

August 3, 2018

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanguageButcher

BTW, you don't need to create a new account every time for that. Just log out, choose the language, and when Duo asks you to sign up/sign in, the last button is "Not Now." Just click on that and you can take a placement test.

August 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryAnne993219

I didn't know there was a placement test. What kind of placement scores come back?

August 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

It just advances you through the tree, awarding XP for the units you quiz out of.

August 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jedi10548

Thank you. I will keep that in mind next time.

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/georgeoftruth

Is this an A/B test, or a glitch, or something else entirely?

This is an A/B test of a staff-created French course. It started 3 or 4 weeks ago.

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriestruthers

do you know if it will be given out to all french users soon?

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pixies_Debaser

I hope not as it is riddled with errors and the French mods and contributors have no access to it as it is "Staff" created and a poor way to learn the language.

August 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ripcurlgirl

Totally agree - it's a disaster!! Please get rid of it and allow new learners to have access to the original (or new) tree created by the contributors and mods such as George and Sitesurf. Those trees are grammatically sound and well supported.

August 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/georgeoftruth

Sorry, I have no idea.

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriestruthers

Thank you x

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jedi10548

Thank you! That relieves a lot of worry!

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidZeev

I'm seeing Basics 1, Basics 2, Phrases, Food, Animals.... Does that mean I have the old tree? How would I switch to the new tree?

August 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

Trust me, you DON'T WANT the new tree. Be very grateful you have the old one.

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MinhTranDo

I've just tried out the new French tree. It includes much more practical words and sentences, and that's quite amazing. However, I feel it lacks some grammar points. I'm still using the old tree and taking the lesson Negatives, before which is the lesson Occupation. The lesson gives examples and grammar notes to explain why there are "Elle est enseignante" and "C'est une enseignante", but the alike sentence "Elle est étudiante" in the lesson Basics 2 or People (I don't remember) is not explained in the Tips and Notes. Hope that I'll finish the old tree before the new tree is in use.

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

I think there are two new French trees out there right now. Which one do you have? Does yours have a gallic lesson on it?

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Looking at LorettaPresley's comment, it would seem there are three actually. Some people haven't gotten the tree from four or so months ago yet.

August 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MinhTranDo

@phuvtuo It seems like I'm using the tree created by the staff. It doesn't have Gallicism and Basics 3. When I opened the account on duome.eu I was surprised to find out that this course has 119 skills, 599 lessons, but only 1913 words (? - the number of words is same to the old tree). When I took a placement test (on another account also using this tree), I was put to the lesson City (Sadly, I had taken another placement test before this and Duo said that I didn't test out of any skills). The comment section of most sentences is locked.

August 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MinhTranDo

@Thomas.Heiss No, I created two different accounts. This account was created in January 2018, is currently my main account and using the old French tree with 78 skills. It seems like every new account will be using the tree created by the staff from now, because I logged out of my account on my phone, used the app as a user who doesn't register, and it also led me to the staff's tree.

August 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@MinhTranDo

I was surprised to find out that this course has 119 skills, 599 lessons, but only 1913 words (lexemes) - the number of words *is the same to the old tree.

The words (lexemes) number will only be right once you have finished your tree.

The Duolingo "Vocabulary API" requires the finished tree, to get the number right.

Not any SHOF member has finished the newest tree with 119 skills: https://duome.eu/en/fr

For some reason duome.eu often displays the wrong "words" (lexemes) number for A/B trees even some users have finished the correct tree version before.

This was the case for my EN-PT tree only showing 2000 when I finished it.

Same applies to me for French (displaying 1913 even I got the other tree version).

French 3.0 (A/B) actually has 2296 vocab/lexemes according to the https://duome.eu/en/fr list with conquered trees.

The vocab / lexemes number will be different for the staff tree version and the different "Duolingo lexemes ids" number will also reflect that.


Wow, right now you switched back the very old English-French tree with 78 skills?

Did you join a classroom (as student) to share your progress or did you register as a teacher on schools.duolingo.com and created ANY (empty) classrooms?

Classrooms are not compatible with A/B trees!!!

August 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@MinhTranDo

I've just tried out the new French tree. However, I feel it lacks some grammar points

The trick for the newer EN-SP is to use an IOS mobile device, which includes now NEW "mobile grammar notes" (see this staff confirmation): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/28102715$comment_id=28130912

Have you tried this on your newer EN-FR tree from staff (119 skills) how far this same mobile concept was incorporated?

August 5, 2018

[deactivated user]

    Thanks for all your info. I really would prefer if the French course could go up to at least 5,000 words.

    August 23, 2018

    [deactivated user]

      Thank you @Thomas.Heiss, I really appreciate the link, I never heard of it. I am literally reading my Larousse Dictionnaire Poche, on the page beginning with émetteur. 5 lingots for your 5,000-word site.

      August 24, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      5 lingots for your 5,000-word site.

      Here is another 10,000k words vocabulary app (e.g Android): https://www.languagecourse.net/vocabulary-trainer.php

      And please don't forget the AnkiSRS shared 10-15k sentence decks!

      August 24, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MinhTranDo

      Oh, I'm using Android and computer versions. I don't have any Iphones. Thank you for the information

      August 5, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriestruthers

      i really like the new spanish tree so if it is anything like that when i will like it. i like all the new skills

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

      I'm not sure that it is at all the same thing. There seem to be two new French trees. One is probably great. The other you do not want for sure.

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      @phuvtuo

      This is your other thread:

      "Several mistakes in the English sentence answers in the Shopping 2 lessons": https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28295934

      August 5, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriestruthers

      yes i would like to know this as well

      August 3, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jedi10548

      I assume that if you want the new tree, that you either need to make a new account to start on it, or wait until the A/B test is over, and see which one wins.

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

      Be careful what you wish for.

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriestruthers

      I have the new spanish tree and i much prefer it to the french tree because of the new skills

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LorettaPresley

      I've been waiting four months for this tree and I still don't freaking have it. I keep hearing of everyone and their cousin getting it while I'm stuck with the old tree I don't want to finish because any day it might be changed...or I'll still be stuck with this one six months from now. Either way, I do all of my French off Duolingo now.

      Yes, I get that half the people have it and the other way don't. But what doesn't make sense is that they keep randomly giving it to people vs. just giving it to half of all users four months ago and to no one after that until they decide whether everyone gets it.

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/commoncola

      By any chance do you have a Duolingo Classroom? Those are stuck with the old, old French tree.

      August 4, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WitlessBittern

      This wait does seem to be getting excessive. I'm working on my reverse French tree in the meantime.

      August 4, 2018

      [deactivated user]

        Good, so am I

        August 23, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

        Quote Usagiboy7:
        There is the reverse course.
        I am always curious if people plan to do reverse and ladder trees
        Source: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29156220$comment_id=29165506

        Starting a course from French on the web portal = writing / translating into French (on the right hand side) on a higher (better) ratio even on lower crown L0-L2 (L3) levels

        (My) Tips and audio tricks for reverse and laddering trees

        How do you do a reverse tree / The reverse tree helps - how to be able to listen to the target language audio:
        - https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29266026$comment_id=29267079
        - https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29262469$comment_id=29266698

        October 16, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

        Good news!

        SHOF Duome.eu French tips and notes

        65 (-1) cached (html formatted) grammar notes for your English->French tree:

        https://duome.eu/tips/en/fr

        [NEW FEATURE] Duome.eu shows "tips and notes" for multiple language trees incl. not active courses: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29385314

        October 25, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

        How to switch back from tree V4 to (old) stable tree V2

        https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29156220$comment_id=29159723

        October 25, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0_0rion

        The title speaks for itself. Im nearing the end of my first Duolingo course (French V4) and I have noticed the further along I get, the worse the skills get.

        What I mean by that is a number of things:

        • Poor sentence structure

        • Very few grammatically correct alternative answers

        • Previously correct answers are now incorrect

        • Marked wrong for not misspelling some things

        • Tons more on the spelling and grammar...

        Etc... These I can understand as they are likely peer edited and receive less and less eyes the closer you get to completion simply because less people get that far before quitting.

        However, these I can't immediately excuse as lacking peer review:

        • Word bank only has the words that complete the translation, and no others in order to confuse and require some thinking.

        • Lessons have much less variation of subjects within than there were in previous lessons

        • Some lessons only have 1 or 2 variations and repeat the same translations exercises over and over again, inevitably making these "advanced" skills easier.

        • Toward the end of a lesson, the exact same translation exercise is repeated up to 7 times On some occasions, all consecutively.

        • Lack of variation in exercise type. The beginning was full of imagery for visual connection to nouns, but they dont exist toward the end. There is also a lack of listening exercises and so on..

        I can understand that its hard for Duolingo to be perfect using its method of constructing courses, however, i think it wouldn't require much effort for Duolingo corporate to dedicate some staff to running through their more matured and popular courses, like French, to manually update and finish them to a higher quality.

        As of now, it feels like, even in this French V4 tree that Im using, the quality seemed to drop off incredibly just before half way through, (around skill 50/119). And it can be discouraging to continue if it feels like you're suddenly not being taught with the same "care" as you were when you started, which might be perpetuating the issue of these later skills not getting as peer reviewed.

        Lastly, don't think I'm trying to bash Duolingo, quite the opposite, I love Duolingo, but want to call attention to what appears to be a really big missed opportunity to polish off matured and popular lessons. I'm sure I'll get some hate for this but just looking for some others to chime in on this issue with their own experience as I'm sure with less popular languages it's even worse.

        November 24, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

        I hope you don't mind if I also link back your original thread:

        "Diminishing quality and accuracy of the French Course the farther along you get": https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29717413

        November 25, 2018

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