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"Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem Senior."

Translation:We show the newspaper to the elderly person.

March 29, 2013

109 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heshmati

Isn't the correct order like "Wir zeigen dem Senior die Zeitung."? Because, I read in case both direct and indirect objects are nouns, the indirect one comes first.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

both are possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Connpaul

are both really possible? I was always taught that indirect object nouns ALWAYS come before direct object nouns, unless pronouns are involved. Now I am questioning everything I was taught and read....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthias1414

To my German ears it is way more common to let the indirect object come first: "Wir zeigen dem Mann die Zeitung." "Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem Mann" simply sounds awkward.

Please pay attention: "Wie zeigen ihm/ihr die Zeitung" is perfect. "Wir zeigen die Zeitung ihm/ihr" would be wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.Fink

When I was a kid taking German, I was taught the indirect object regularly came first IF it was a pronoun; nouns not so much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kikimav

Finally an answer that throws some light to this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

Regilarly, but not always, as when if you want to emphasize it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

Yes, both are possible. Note that there is no 'indirect' object in the German phrase. What is shown to whom is made clear by the cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nwilson91

Really, because back in the dative lessons, they corrected the hell out of me for doing it in a different order, and the comments in that section said, "No, it has to be in this specific order." Further, almost every single example was in that order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erick_X

Exactly! I'm starting to get confused because of this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pascal675354

My thought exactly. In an earlier lesson this was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duoderSie

Watya: many English speaking German teachers call the accusative noun/pronoun the direct object and the dative noun/pronoun the indirect noun. So of course there is a direct object and indirect object in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

OK, true. What I wanted to say: This distinction doesn't really make sense here. (Or better: isn't of much use here) Of course, you can call an accusative object 'direct' and a dative object 'indirect' if you want but you don't gain any information on the word order by doing so here. In English the word order is fixed to make clear who/what receives the action and therefore the direct/indirect distinction makes more sense. In German it's more instructive to think in terms of accusative/dative IMO.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

You learned right, with a slight exception—if you want to emphasize the indirect object (which it is here, of course, as in to the old man)—you put it after the direct object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krista189497

Wir zeigen dem Senior die Zeitung is correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Connpaul

I thought the same thing....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ketzal681041

Yes and also no... It depends on what you want to express, what's the meaning: We found an very old newspaper where was something stated about the war. We thought this article was wrong so we showed grandpa this newspaper (dem Senior(en) die Zeitung). But if you want to say, you show the newspaper and may be not the bottle of milk or the book then "die Zeitung dem Senior(en). It depends...

Hint: There is a sometimes used form of the dative of masculine nouns, called the strong dative, with an -e/-en. Its a bit old fashioned, just like calling people a senior.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mersini3

Beides ist grammatikalisch richtig, man wird das zuerst nennen, was man betonen will. Allerdings habe ich noch nie jemanden so reden hören. So ein Satz kommt von keinem Muttersprachler. Das Wort Senior wird mitunter in bestimmten zusammengesetzten Wörtern verwendet oder im Gegensatz zu Junior, aber nicht in so einem Satz. Man würde sagen: Wir zeigen dem älteren Herrn die Zeitung.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mersini3

Oder wenn die Betonung auf der Zeitung liegt auch: Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem älteren Herrn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/petorialc

Why not only "elderly"? Why do we need the "person"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mostrivia

Because "the elderly" means "all the elderly people" in English. Like, when you say "The rise of the dead," you don't mean the resurrection of a singular dead person but all dead human beings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OXxZjX6x

In the US "Senior" is an acceptable term for older people of either gender. I don't know why I was marked wrong for using it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GnaFUUp

I agree. I also answered "senior person" and it was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duoderSie

Why is pensioner not accepted... very annoying


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

Because it doesn't mean the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duoderSie

Pensioner is used (in britain at least) interchangeably with elderly person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kesdale

Same goes in Australia - i used pensioner as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erikman

That's interesting. I don't come from England so I've never heard that, but that's used for every elderly person whether or not they receive a pension? (Just curious)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duoderSie

Technically it should mean someone who receives a pension, but almost everyone over a certain age gets a modest state (national) pension or is entitled to one through their spouse. It is very common to see "concessions for pensioners" or "for OAPs" (old aged pensioners) which in reality just means of "retirement age".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scapeplan

Duolingo uses American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duoderSie

The Preferred answers are usually American, but Non-American spelling and idioms are certainly accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scapeplan

Yes, but I don't think that would make an American product more likely to accept British terms that are otherwise very uncommon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayne____

It does, largely, and in the United States, many people would be offended at being called elderly if they are barely old enough to be called seniors. It's safe to use to refer to people over 80, but what Duolingo is doing is not a good use of American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen83116

Why is senior citizen not accepted? What is the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbsantic

I am also annoyed it is not accepted, since it was used earlier in the same lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xfiedor

George Carlin was angry at that phrase, so duolingo said 'aw hell na'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayne____

"Senior citizen" used to be a common phrase, but the obvious problem is that the person might not be a citizen. Perhaps it should be accepted because some people still use it, even if it's not necessarily accurate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rowschank

We are showing the newspaper to the elderly man.

What on earth is wrong with this...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/correavinicius

Senior, the German Noun is unspecified, can be both man or woman depending on the context. Since it doesn't say anything about gender DL wants you to answer using "Elderly Person" or "Senior"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mersini3

Das Wort Senior ist kein deutsches Wort. Fremdwörter werden bei bestimmten Anlässen oder in der Schriftsprache verwendet, entweder weil dies sie sich gewählter anhören oder weil es kein deutsches Wort gibt. In so einem banalen Satz aus der Umgangssprache, benutzt kein Deutscher das Wort Senior!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianMacN1

This answer is stupidly specific. You shiuld be allowed to answer "we're showing the newspaper to a Senior.". This answer js broken


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OXxZjX6x

I tried this again and used "senior citizen" which, in American English, can be used for any old person. It should NOT be wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianMacN1

Duolingo often misses common English words


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeEtzkorn

Surprised the common translation isn't just "Senior." I don't think that would be confusing in English given context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lee103187

English speakers call elderly persons seniors.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianMacN1

We certainly never call them "elderly person" since honestly it has a negative connotation. Senior is the commonly accepted term. The only exception is indigenous seniors are called "Elders".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HessieLondon

Not in England they don't. Senior citizen, possibly. I guessed and put 'the senior' but had no idea what it meant - until reading the comments i thought it might be a senior in high school or college!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seiryuu

Why is "senior" (EN) not an acceptable translation for "Senior" (DE)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertoMon365886

Senior as an adjective describing an elderly person should also be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nweech

Why senior person for elderly person not allowed Duo? We say senior citizen in the UK ...#JustSaying


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

Have you ever actually said Senior person?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayne____

Yes, it's literally in the comment you replied to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartoffel_Mann

Is to the elderly not correct? It can be a noun as well as an adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColetteJoh6

Elderly is used in plural only, except when used as an adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hilarymcca5

I used the 'elderly' assuming that as a (sort of) collective noun it would be accepted. Not. In the UK/Ireland 'Senior' has become standard in recent years. Unfortunately, the more than a little derogative OAP term perseveres.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slug_a_bed

"We point out the newspaper" is incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielStermer

Why can you not say "Wir zeigen die Zeitung 'zu' dem Senior?

Is it because the zu is implied with Senior being in the Accusative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paradoja

I don't really know why the preposition is not used (languages don't tend to be very consistent with prepositions, making more fun/frustrating the learning process), but "dem Senior " is in the dative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.Fink

Senior is not in the Accusative (den Senior), but the dative (dem Senior). Direct object is die Zeitung, and that is therefore in the Accusative. "dem Senior" is in the dative, because it is the INDIRECT object (to whom or for whom).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jens130066

How would you say "we are showing the newspaper of the senior"? To me in German this sounds exactly the same... A different case i guess?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paradoja

Yes, there's the genitive (Genitiv) for that. It would be something like "Wir zeigen die Zeitung des Seniors."

The der/dem turns to des and Senior to Seniors. There's a unit in Duolingo with the genitive, so you'll get to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LesterOlso

I have listened to the audio recording for the slow version of this line a few times. To me dem sounds like den. Might be audio merit some attention?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SolFdez

When the man pronounces Senior it's easy to understand, but previoulsy when the woman did, it sounds completely different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthias1414

"Senior" in the singular is not used in German. Only in connection with a name: Müller Senior = the father of Müller junior. I suppose Duo wanted to use "ältere Person" oder "Rentner/in". However, the plural "die Senioren" is used as for example in "old people's home" = "Seniorenheim".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I hope you're right!.
I'm getting tired of this new "frenchified" German with Orangen, Cousins and Senior, all with accent on final syllable, where it falls naturally in German to accent the first syllable (unless there is an unaccented prefix, like ge-, be- in Gesicht, Besuch.)
If I had seen (rather than hesrd) the word for the first time as a fluent German speaker (who's been away for 20 years), I would have pronounced that foreign word [sehn' jor] (or in English spelling ZANE yer.)
They used to be Rentner/Rentnerin= pensioner. And except for a stray foreigner here and there, everyone in Germany (and England) has some sort of pension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosManuelM608643

I put we show the newspaper to the elderly and it's wrong._.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KSSrinivas1

Elderly option shows as OAP why is is to and therebis no option as OAP


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angie590321

Wir zeigen dem Senior die Zeitung. That's the usual way of saying it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rjjacob

In America more often than not, "senior" is a class designation in high school or college. In referring to an elderly person, one would say "senior citizen", "elderly person" or "oldster." "Seniors", meaning elderly, is used in reports about demographics.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peggy187508

I disagree. So often here in USA "senior" means older person. Senior rates for movies, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

That's an adjective, nit a noun. I consider myself a senior citizen (or preferably, an old lady)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Puett

General rule: dative case before accusative case - .. dem Senior die Zeitung


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Papilino

old or elder ???? any diference


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I think elderly is just a gentle way to say old. (No one thinks they're old!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayne____

The problem is that when it became a "gentle" way, it was applied to people viewed as old by some people. Those same people might now be over 55 or 60, have "elderly" parents in their 80s, and not think of themselves as elderly since it's a word that describes an older generation. But they still get senior discounts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bnAH13e8

The "the"was missing in this exercice


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dominique702558

I think elderly person is as good as elderly citizen


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mohul20316

there was no answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sol52347

"We show the newspaper to the senior citizens" should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/seuny

Why can't i say elderly why do i need to add elderly person both are correct in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kerstin888672

"Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem älteren Herrn." - Would be correct. "Senior" is not a German word. (I'm a native speaker.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anthony172525

so what is wrong with 'we are showing the newspaper to an elderly man'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AvinashBor4

Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem senior


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.Fahrenheit18

In spanish we have have two words for 'elderly person', 'señor' (male) and 'señora' (female), is it the same in German?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doko943908

Why not old person? Marked as wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmyChan20

why we show the newspaper to the elderly not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John567531

Here we go with the Yoda speak again, disappearing words and fragmented sentences. To me it sounds like they're showing the old man to the newspaper. Which of course is ridiculous. Instead of showing the old man the newspaper. I understand the part about dem = to the. Just looks and sounds weird to me. Even if it is right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janine29821

I put "we are showing" and they marked it wrong. Aren't both ways accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OneAndLonely

"We show the newspaper to the senior person" was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BigAnthony

Surely zeigen can mean show or read to


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katja-z

@ AnthonyBol4

No, "zeigen" means "to show"/exhibite/feature... "lesen*" means to read.

https://www.dict.cc/?s=zeigen

https://www.dict.cc/?s=lesen

dict.cc is a very good online dictionary to look up things. So are Pons and Duden


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paradoja

Furthermore, to read to someone would be "vorlesen" (in case that was the second thing the previous poster wanted to say).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuthBB1

In the UK people don't really use the word Senior in this context. We might say THE ELDERLY (Plural), or the elderly person for singular use.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bexxonthebeat

"we show the elderly the newspaper" is incorrect here. Wow.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Graham40995

I don't like the term 'senior', i think it's patronising.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethFeagan

9/6/20 My answer was "We show the newspaper to the elder." I think this should be accepted, so I reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/po9jJzEh

I translated dem Senior as the elder and is was marked incorrect. Reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmreEEN1

We are showing the elderly people the newspaper, should be correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katja-z

@ EmreEEN1

Unfortunately, no.

If you wrote " the elderly people" that means you are talking about several/more than one elderly/older person.

Wheras "Wir zeigen die Zeitung dem Senior" means that we are showing the newspaper to the senior/elderly person". Meaning the newspaper is being shown to one person. Not to several as in your sentence.

The word "People" always is/means more than one person.

People =several/more than one/many persons.

Unlike the word "human" which can be "one human" or "2/3/several/many humans", or 'one person/ many persons"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lily855046

Why is 'we show the elderly person the newspaper' wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Life_is_simple

Why is "we are showing the newspaper to the elderly person" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MONTLIBAN

You have to use Maths logic to study German, let alone to speak it. You may as well study advanced differential equations with the same ease (or rather difficulty level)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.Fink

Have you ever actually studied differential equations? I'd say there is no contest! (I studied both in college.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MONTLIBAN

Nothing to brag about. I am a civil engineer and mental integration is still my hobby. The idea is that there are calculations to be done before you can compose a correct German phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

I used to teach both German and English to Danish high school students (10-12 grades) from1975-95. Back then they'd had English since 5th grade and German since 7th. As 10th graders they all thought German was hardest, but by 12th, German had gotten very easy. The hard part is learning the (very few) endings, which Duo is good for. After that, the going is easy. Endings are MUCH harder in other languages i've learned, like Spanish and French, (which otherwise have fairly easy vocabulary for English speakers) and Greek and Russian, whose vocabulary is awful!. Danish is half-way between German and English, so it was pretty easy for me, knowing both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MONTLIBAN

Thanks for the encouragement

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