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"Ini koran Anda?"

Translation:Is this your newspaper?

August 16, 2018

60 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kpmallon

I put "Is this newspaper yours". I think it should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/y0rkshire

"Is this newspaper yours" is correct English and equally as likely to be heard in the UK. It has the added advantage of relating the demonstrative pronoun precisely to its subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

It is a correct English sentence, but it is not a correct translation of this sentence.

https://www.duolingo.com/dictionary/Indonesian/anda/f639172dc330d6a016bd7001039d3750

See Rick392366’s answer below to Deinonysus for the correct sentence to translate the possessive pronoun instead of the possessive adjective. Help vote it up so it will be higher on the page for people to get the information sooner.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

Possessive pronoun instead of possessive adjective is treated differently in most languages. Scroll down for more information by Rick392366.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

Midern English useage is not that rigid


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Absolutely wrong. This is my girl(friend), is not exactly the same meaning than "This girl is mine".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Casey627666

I also wrote this. In english this is absolutely correct?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

It is a good English sentence, but it changes the grammar. See above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deinonysus

How would you say, "Is this newspaper yours?" That was marked incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

How would you say, "Is this newspaper yours?" That was marked incorrect.

You could say it like this :

Apakah koran ini milik Anda ?
Apakah koran ini milikmu ?
Koran ini milikmu?

The first sentence is the formal one, using "Anda" (formal "you").

In the other sentences I'm using "kamu" (informal you) as a possesive.
"Kamu" is shortened as "mu".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elelkay

In English (at least in America) "Is this your newspaper?" and "Is this newspaper yours?" are essentially the same. Why can't it be a correct alternative answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

In English, the first uses a possessive adjective and the second uses a possessive pronoun, so although the meaning is similar, the grammar is different. Most courses on Duolingo treat these with separate sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

Correct.

Here is more info about the use of "ini" , "itu" :
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31492712

Here is more info about the word order in a noun phrase:
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31285942


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

@Allintolearning I don't think the similarities in structure count. It's more about the difference in the strength. If it was only similar structures, with 100% same meaning, it wouldn't be interesting to make a separation. Translating right is about keeping the same meaning, not the same grammatical roles or word order.

You say that most courses make the separation, it is because in most languages there is a difference in the meaning.

For instance, in Spanish, in "mi nombre", "mi" doesn't have the same strength than "mio". "El nombre es mío".

Same in French. C'est mon chapeau. Ce chapeau est le mien. It's stronger. (And Ce chapeau est mien even stronger)

Probably any language need to make this distinction between the weak possessive and the emphatic possessive, because we are human beings, and doubt or disputes arise about legitimate owners of things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

@elelkay No, they aren't "essentially the same".
(English from America or from elsewhere).
You absolutely need to understand the difference.

Why do you think you have "your" and "yours" in English, and "my" and "myself"? Are they the same?
"Yours" is an emphatic possessive pronoun, when "myself" is an emphatic personal pronoun.

The reason why possessive pronouns (mine, yours...) do exist is because they replace a noun. When possessive determiners (my, your...) don't replace a noun, but qualify it.

See here for confirmation: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/grammaire/grammaire-britannique/pronouns-possessive-my-mine-your-yours-etc

My cat -> qualifies the noun cat.
The cat is mine -> mine replaces the repetition "my cat". So it's a short for The cat is my cat.

Do you see a difference of intensity between "This is my cat" and "This cat is my cat"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sutozsombor

Is Anda always writte with a Capital letter?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

Is Anda always writte with a Capital letter?

Yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greentiger

'is this newspaper yours?' should also be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesNorel

I wrote "this newspaper is yours?" and obviously got it wrong haha, what would be the correct translation for what I said? Would it be something like "Anda/kamu ini koran?" or "ini Anda/kamu koran?" Im a little confused with all the shuffling of words sorry


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

For "yours" or "belongs to you" use the verb "milik" or "punya".

"Anda ini koran" doesn't make sense, it would be "You are this newspaper".
The mark of a possession is missing in your sentence,
and the mark of the possession could be either to have a possessive pronoun (it has to follow the noun) or to use a possession verb like "milik".

For this same reason "Ini kamu koran" makes no sense neither, and mean also "This is you newspaper". You have to use "kamu" with the right word order to turn it into a possessive: "Ini koran kamu".

For an emphatic version, with a stronger meaning, you'd use:
Koran ini milik Anda. (This newspaper belongs to you/is yours).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith_APP

Since "koran ini" is "this newspaper", why do we reverse the word order here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fischerfs

it's saying '(is) [this] [your newspaper]?', hence ini appearing at the start, as opposed to [this newspaper]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

You confuse "koran ini" and "Ini koran".
The meaning and the grammar roles of "ini" are completely different in both.

Koran ini= ini is an article, it follows the noun it determines.
Like: koran saya = my newspaper.

(Note that a/an doesn't follow the noun, for instance "sebuah apel)

When "ini" is not an article, it's when it's not used after a noun.
In this case, it becomes a subject-pronoun. Subject of the verb "is". This is = subject + verb.

In this case, it doesn't follow a noun.
Itu koran = This is a newspaper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/symbol271

How do you differentiate between statement and interrogative in Indonesian? I got this sentence as a "type what you hear" exercise. I correctly transcribed "Ini koran Anda", but I expected the translation to be "This is your newspaper." I was surprised to see a question ("Is this your newspaper?") instead.

So if "Ini koran Anda?" is "Is this your newspaper?" how would you say "This is your newspaper." Is the difference just in the inflection/punctuation? Does anything else have to change to turn it from a question to a statement or vice versa?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

It's the same than in French or Spanish (but really closer from French for this). There is several ways to form questions in Indonesian.

The formal way is to use "apakah", that would be like the French "est-ce que", (but probably more formal).

Apakah koran ini milik Anda? (Is this newspaper belongs to you/is yours)
In French, using the question-word "est-ce que": Est-ce que ce journal vous appartient/est à vous?

The informal way, in French, like in Indonesian, would be to remove the question-word, and to play only on the intonation to indicate it's a question.

Ce journal est à vous/vous appartient?
(This newspaper is yours/belongs to you)
Ini koran Anda? Ini koran milik Anda?

In English, you can also use "This newspaper is your?" but it's more like a surprise, it's not as used as in French or in Indonesian.
Note that only yes-no question can skip their question-word like this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

"Is this newspaper yours?" should be an acceptable answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/symbol271

The two phrases are used interchangeably in English, but they do actually use different constructions. Since there are equivalent constructions in both English and Indonesian, I think it makes sense to only accept the translation that uses the equivalent construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

"Is this newspaper yours" has a stronger sense of possession, because it has an emphatic word, than the common and normal way to say it "Is it your newspaper?"

Don't tell me you use "yours" each time you want to ask about an item's property. You would say "Is it your cat?" not "Is this cat yours?" unless you want to be emphatic, because, for instance, there's about who own the cat, or because it seems weird that this person owns this cat. Etc.
Emphatic word. It's like adding a "really" (is it really your cat? Are you sure?)

It's not really about grammar role of the words chosen I think, but more about the simple constructions expressing simple statement, and the existence of other constructions, expressing emphasis and stronger meanings.

Best translation for "Is this newspaper yours?" in my opinion is "Apakah koran ini milik Anda?"

"Milik Anda" expresses a stronger possession than the possessive article, and the simpler way to say it. But this distinction is maybe more obvious in English than in Indonesian.

Ini koran Anda? Is it your newspaper?
apakah koran ini milik Anda? Is this newspaper yours?

The first one "Ini koran Anda?" is less emphatic, and also less formal in the form (no question-word "apakah"). I have no idea how to express with "apakah" a less emphatic form. It's the reason why, while I know "your" is less strong than "yours" in English, I don't know if the distinction is as obvious in Indonesian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neio75

whats the difference between "itu" and "ini"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jackheywood

Ini = This (near to you) Itu = That (far from you)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/koozie_24

How come Anda is capatalized?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

It is the formal version of “you” or “your” and it is always capitalized.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Respectful version.

I make the difference, as "aku" vs "saya" doesn't show difference in the respect, but difference in the formality only.


[deactivated user]

    Koran ini anda? Why is it wring?!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    Your sentence means "This newspaper is you". It makes no sense.

    Anda becomes a possessive pronoun only if you put it directly after the noun.
    Koran Anda: your newspaper.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jim606185

    Thanks for the explanation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vessy65285

    Why there is "your" in the transition


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    Because "koran Anda" = your newspaper.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bev425285

    Why? Is Anda capitalized?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RCS2

    "Is this newspaper your's?" is the same as "Is this your newspaper?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

    Same meaning, but different grammar. If Duolingo uses possessive adjectives then translate to possessive adjectives and when Duolingo uses possessive pronouns then translate to possessive pronouns.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

    It is sad because Indonesia is a close major neighbour nation to Australia.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adclinton

    I'm actually living in bali (1 year now) as i type this and just asked my landlord and he said either is fine, that either way would be understood.

    Is this your newspaper or is this newspaper yours


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

    Yes both sentences would be understood, but the grammar is different and both sentences have separate translations so scroll up to see those.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    Both are grammatically correct, but in English, "This newspaper is yours" indicate a greater intensity in the possession.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greentiger

    "Is this newspaper yours?" should also be accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

    Please scroll up, that is not the same grammatically and there is another sentence that translates to your version.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cloudsdale4ever

    Grammar nazism doesn't help learning. It hinders it.

    If the meanings are the same, both should be accepted, even if they use different grammatical structures to convey the same meaning. We can learn the advanced intricacies of grammar later in the course. So please stop setting TRAPS on us, or we will stop learning your language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    It's not grammar nazism, it's to understand the subtleties of a language. And it really helps.

    English does have subtleties, it's what makes the beauty of a language.
    And one of them is that "This cat is mine" has a stronger meaning than "This is my cat".

    Saying there are exactly the same, and no difference in the meaning or intensity is wrong.

    Allintolearning is right when he says that the emphatic "yours" is better translated with "milik" or "punya".

    This is my cat: Itu kucing saya.
    = I show you my cat.

    -This is my cat.
    -No, it's not your cat!!! This cat is mine.
    Itu kucing milik saya!!!!

    See the difference?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

    The point is that this debate is now concerned with correcting the student's ability to understand our own language instead of learning Indonesian. This is all now superfluous and ends with robbing the new student the desire of learning. Indonesian grammar needs to be explained, sentence structure, syntax.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

    Once again, correct English grammar as used in Australia is being marked wrong!! What is the reason? We do not speak US English. Is this book yours? Is this your book? ...are the same. I understand my own language, but there is no explanation for Indonesian...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

    The meaning is the same, but the grammar is different in English too.

    The word "yours" is a possessive pronoun which replaces "your book" ("Is this book your book?" becomes "Is this book yours?") and in "this book" you are using the demonstrative adjective "this".

    In "Is this your book?", the demonstrative pronoun "this" replaces "this book" and "your" is a possessive adjective.

    So, the problem is not that you are using bad grammar, but that you are changing the grammar when translating and Duolingo is also teaching grammar. Try to stick with the same parts of speech, translating adjectives to adjectives and pronouns to pronouns whenever you can. If there is a situation in which you cannot, then Duolingo will allow the closest possible translation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWhit849543

    Well I've lost my interest. You are far too interested in critiquing English Grammar. How are you going? is the Australian way of saying How are you doing? you mark my answer wrong. Is this your newspaper? or Is this newspaper yours? you mark as wrong but both are possessive in English. You are too busy supporting your criticism of English grammar rather than teaching the Indonesian grammar. I have been so disheartened by your unexpected way of critiquing native English speakers, but you don't allow any world variations in English grammatical usage. There variations eg between the US and Australian and British, all are correct but slightly differ. I am not here to be taught English. I was hoping to be encouraged and taught Bahasa Indonesia. Because (as someone else posted) of your English grammatical Nazism, I have lost interest.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

    You have only to report alternate correct answers such as "How are you doing?", but understand that they will teach possessive pronouns separately from possessive adjectives, so try to stick to the same grammar.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sjsagorbd

    Is it teaching us English? It's just disgusting... Duolingo need to do improve the course.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cloudsdale4ever

    More like the people who are making this course and replying these comments should improve their attitude. They're trying to pose as smarter than native English speakers, and they deliberately made this course a real minefield. I'm starting to think that they don't want to teach us their language – they want to convince us that learning their language is too hard and we should stop.

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