"Menu itu"

Translation:That menu

August 16, 2018

21 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Does "itu" indicate that this is singular, or could this also mean "those menus"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

Does "itu" indicate that this is singular, or could this also mean "those menus"?

"itu" can mean "that" or "those".
"itu" in itself doesn't indicate if it's singular/plural.
It depends on the context.

Menu itu = That menu.
Menu-menu itu = Those menus.

Buku itu = That book.
Buku-buku itu = Those books.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

OK, but then without context, menu itu could also mean those menus, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

OK, but then without context, menu itu could also mean those menus, right?

In this specific sentence, without context, I would choose the singular form.
I would only choose the plural form if there is an indication that we are talking about more than one menu.
There is also no reduplication (menu-menu), so to me this sentence (without any other context) indicates that we're talkning about only one single menu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

So, then the reduplication is necessary to indicate plurality? I thought I had seen sentences where a non-reduplicated noun was translated with an English plural. I must admit that I assumed Indonesian, like Japanese, Chinese, etc., did not mark the plural at all. If it must mark the plural, though, then I guess the plural answer here should, indeed, not be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

So, then the reduplication is necessary to indicate plurality?

No.
Reduplication is only used if there is no other context to tell you that it's plural.

If there is already an indication of plurality, then you should not reduplicate.

Like this :
Aku punya satu buku = I have one book.
Aku punya dua buku = I have two books.
Aku punya banyak buku = I have many books.

"Buku" is not reduplicated here, because the context already tells you if it's singular/plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Thanks, that's quite clear. So many of the things that make many other languages hard are so simple here. I bet something I am not even expecting is going to be terribly difficult--I can't wait.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

What do you mean by "counter words", do you mean sebuah, seorang, etc..?

To sum up. When you see a non duplicated noun, for instance "buku" (book), it can mean a plural or a singular. Usually it can be found in the context if we talk about a plural or a singular, but the sentence can be ambiguous. So it's common to translate that kind of sentence with plural or singular, both can fit.

Saya suka buku. Can be I like books, I like a book, I like the books... There's no indication about the article (probably I don't need to specify as it's already clear from the other sentences in the context) or about the number plural or singular.

When you have an indication of the plurality, from the meaning or context, of course, the non duplicated noun has to be translated only with plural. For instance "Saya memiliki dua buku". I own 2 books. Here you already know it's a plural, so I won't use buku-buku, the "2" already specify it's a plural, I don't need to make it clear further....

The buku-buku form is only used when I am forced to be very clear I talk about a plural. And it's never grammatically mandatory to do so. Only when talking or writing, sometimes we need to kill the ambiguity.

If you want to use "Saya memiliki 2 buku-buku", it's really redundant and really not natural.

When I have buku-buku, the duplicated noun, of course, it can only be translated as a plural.

Menu itu, grammatically can mean a singular or a plural (as I said for the non replicated noun that can be still plural, and also the plural of "itu" is also "itu".), but it's more natural to understand it as "That menu/the menu", at least without a context. If you have a context that shows that you really talk about a plural, it's different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

I just found out Indonesian has counter words. There it is; that's going to be the hard part.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stardoch

"The menu" shouldn't be marked correctly right? I've been told "the" doesn't exist in Indonesian. So "the menu" would translate to "menu".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I totally disagree. There is no specific "the", meaning there's no word that only means "the", but it doesn't mean, there is no "the" in Indonesian!

The word "itu" is used to translate both, "that" and "the". So there is a "the"!

If you want to translate something with a defined "the" in English, you have to use "itu".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt-T-T

How would "That is a menu" be different?


[deactivated user]

    Menu itu = that menu. That is a menu = itu (ialah) menu


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamenDutchman

    Thank you very much, Ghost of the Past!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    Just for people who get confused, there are 3 different "that" in English. And it's specific to English (and some other languages) that the 2 different meaning of "that" uses the same word. In some other languages, 2 different words are used, it's a proof it's not the same meaning and grammar role.

    • There is the "that" that is a subject-pronoun, used before a verb, and used to demonstrate something. That is the question, that is... That (subject) + is (verb)... That means.. That makes, etc... (Can be replaced with "it", it makes, etc...but it becomes less specific, and more general.)

    • There is the "that" that is an object-pronoun. I know that, you see that. Etc... Can also be replaced grammatically by "it", I see it.

    • There is a totally different "that", that is an article, and is used directly before a noun, to show a particular item (for instance with your finger). That cat, that woman. So it's "that" + "noun" (not "that" + "verb").

    -That menu / The menu = Menu itu. (here "itu" is used as the article of "menu", don't be confused by its place behind the noun "menu").

    -That's the menu/ That is the menu = Itu menu. (here the adalah meaning to be is implied, so "itu" is used also like a subject-pronoun).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thadsmasher

    Would "This menu" be correct


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    No because "that" and "this" are close in the meaning, but it's différent. And English uses 2 différent words, and Indonesian too. So we have to stick to the/that = itu, and this = ini. And nothing else.

    This is a closer item, spatiacially closer in general, than "that".
    But "that" can also expresses a moral distance, like when I say "that woman" full of disdain. There's not this meaning in Indonesian as far as I know, and I don't know how we could render that in a translation....


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mari2ni

    Is it acceptable if we say it as "itu menu"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    No, when "itu" is the article of the noun, here "menu", it has to follow it.

    When it's before the noun, it's totally different in the meaning and the grammatical role (please see my other comment on this page for more explanations). So, when it's before the noun, it's not linked to the noun as an article anymore, and it's used as a subject. The non implied sentence would be "Itu adalah menu", meaning "It's a menu", "that's a menu". The implied form is "Itu menu", as the verb "to be" is, most of the time, skipped, and implicit.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hrhChloe

    Dat menu is mine!!!!!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nengah19

    Kenapa duolingo goblok, padahal itu the

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