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  5. "Aku dan kamu."

"Aku dan kamu."

Translation:You and I.

August 16, 2018

98 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/no.name.42

I think "me and you" sounds a little more natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esen.

Wonder why it's still not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mls100426

yeah i thought soo too and plus it works both with english and Indo, no broken sentence what so ever


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gill714966

A year later it’s still not accepted so my question is, how would I say “me and you” in Indonesian if it’s not “aku dan kamu”?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanWitham1

Thank you Duolingo.

"Aku dan kamu" is "I and you", which is ungrammatical in English. The Indonesian course allows us to write, "You and I", which is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jithin_babu

In English we should respect others first, like - my wife and I, my friend and i , and not me and my friend..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wduck3

As a native English speaker (in USA, that is simply not how English is used everyday. People only care about this, so far as they care at all, in formal writing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a.jerkov

"me and you" is the grammatically correct one in English, and it translates directly to "aku dan kamu".

This should have been the answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lili114354

ditto the previous comments - i think in english we'd much more likely say 'me and you' or as an alternative 'you and i'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EsperantoKajelo

Me think that "me and you" is not the same as "you and I". They sound different to I.

("I" is used for subjects, "me" is used for objects. Unless this sentence is answering a question or something, in English we should almost definitely use the subjective form.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a.jerkov

No, "me and you" can be used correctly. Just not at the beginning of a sentence.

"You and I" can be used in the beginning.

Example:

  • "You and I both know that this question doesn't make any sense."

  • "He has a better answer for me and you."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

That's very true, fried rice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCraney

You always put yourself last in a sentence, thus, "He has a better answer for you and me".
"Me" is the objective case, as in "You and I like him" But "he likes you and me". "Me" being the object to the verb" Like" in the second sentence. Never "he likes me and you".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarksAaron

Any difference in use between "saya" and "aku"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JxdxTxrrX

Both saya and aku mean I, but saya is used formally, while aku is used informally!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tnharvey

Is there any way to make this difference apparent in the course? This was very frustrating and confusing. Maybe indicating which in parentheses: saya (formal), aku (informal)?

Also, under what circumstances would one use the formal version? With all strangers, just in business, etc? Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcusWhel1

In general you should default to the more formal "saya" and "anda" when talking to new people, especially those older or in a higher position than you. I live in Indonesia and I generally use the formal pronouns until the other person switches to the informal. The one exception that comes to mind is if a friend introduces me to one of their friends, then generally the informal is fine (assuming we're of around the same age and social standing). It's a little nuanced, but generally "better safe than sorry" is the way to go.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tnharvey

Great response, thank you! This is similar to Spanish, which uses "usted" under similar circumstances.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bierdame_Bo

My grandmother calls 'aku' pasar Indonesia, so I should use the phrase neneku only at home


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarksAaron

Thank you so much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JxdxTxrrX

You’re welcome! Have a great day :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

Also regional - Java, it is not as often used Saya unless super-polite, mas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mls100426

what about Kami and kita?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Serfive

Kami = we (exclusive) Kita = we (inclusive)

The difference lies in whether you in/exclude the person you are talking to


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XxRenegade

Although only in Malay


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JAndrzej

"Saya" is formal and "aku" informal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a.jerkov

wow you've got so many languages under your belt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drewtyler13

As with previous comments, in English we would never say 'I and you.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeppetarp

Yes, however, we are not learning English are we?

The fastest way to learn Indonesian is to your change thought pattern of the the language you know (English) in your head to fit the grammar of Indonesian.

The direct translation of “Me/I and You” should be correct as we are learning Indonesian, not English and the meaning is the same.

Both answers should be allowed.

It’s the same issue with many sentences in this beta:

For example you get wrong if you translate “Dari mana Kama” into “from where are you?” Which is exactly what it translates to and correct Indonesian grammar (thus you learn the Indonesian sentence structure faster). However Duolingo wants you to write correct English grammar, not Indonesian and therefore you get wrong until you write “where are you from”, which honestly slows down your learning of Indonesian grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jon.Orble

I agree jeppetarp! It is really annoying when Duo trys to teach me correct ENGLISH when I am learning INDONESIAN. I have no interest at all in what Duo might think about the way I use my native language - I am always right by definition :) The issue is particularly bad for Australian English speakers when Duo forces use of American English (in some places it allows both in others it forces American, so you never know where you are!). I have to remember the American version of a translation so that I am not marked wrong the next time the phrase comes up.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

It's about learning the language beyond simple phrases and to be able to think in the language - this is why many Indonesians will speak English as direct translation, as per your example, until the language becomes fluent enough to understand that literal translation is enough to be understood but not "correct".

It is an aide to learning and also facilitates the learners psycholinguistic lexicon, if such things are fixed.

Aku/Saya = I/Me

This is Duolingo's translation order for the words presenting an error - Aku/Saya, in this instance is "me", but because it is also "I", it translates - literally - as "I [and you]", which is not correct, following preposition, objective grammatical syntax.

It may be an Indonesian language course, but if the English is not correct then it will hamper learning.

There is more discussion on "I and you" than any other phrase in the early Indonesian lessons!

The 2nd most discussed appears to be the Islamic greetings and their place in basics, rather than as a separate section on religion.

Most people using this course will perhaps likely be tourists and not Muslim - to use such greetings may be respectful, but religion and tradition is a big deal in Indonesia - it can cause offense for bule to use Muslim greetings among those who adhere to traditional, die-hard Islam.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a.jerkov

what about "me and you"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

You answered that one yourself ;p

In English, you and I is "correct" but people will speak, "me and you".

Since aku/saya means both me and I - the same as your example of why "me and you" is acceptable in English... it is contextual as to what the meaning is.

There are many words (especially "shorthand speak" and in text-chat) that have so many definitions, but it depends entirely on the context and where they are in the sentence that determines the meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCraney

"Me and you" is NEVER acceptable in English. People may use it, but it is incorrect grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Missmelie

So, according to "jeppetarp", we should for example translate "Nama saya Andi" with "Name me Andi"/"Name I Andi", so that we learn faster about the Indonesian language "thought pattern"... Interesting !

Beside the translation question, is it possible to put "you" first instead of "I" in the Indonesian sentence ? Is "Kamu dan Aku" impossible or only less natural ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

They would never use that phrase, as I and you would.

Technically, "You and I", but listen out - you'll hear it used more than you think. Same as "me and you [went to the cinema]"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeppetarp

Yes, however, we are not learning English are we?

The fastest way to learn Indonesian is to your change thought pattern of the the language you know (English) in your head to fit the grammar of Indonesian.

The direct translation of “Me/I and You” should be correct as we are learning Indonesian, not English and the meaning is the same.

Both answers should be allowed.

It’s the same issue with many sentences in this beta:

For example you get wrong if you translate “Dari mana Kama” into “from where are you?” Which is exactly what it translates to and correct Indonesian grammar (thus you learn the Indonesian sentence structure faster). However Duolingo wants you to write correct English grammar, not Indonesian and therefore you get wrong until you write “where are you from”, which honestly slows down your learning of Indonesian grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

I try not to use "should" and "shouldn't" in English, as they are absolute words without reason nor flexibility.

"It might be an idea to allow acceptance of both the answers because..." is likely to sway more your way.

Ask any UN negotiator about fluidity of language and how to leave 100 people hearing 100 different things from the same speech - they'll say the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeWilby

but in informal english we might use you and me ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

You and me both do it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hankerface

Seems like "me and you" should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenurremot

Should be "me and you". I and you is not correct english.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reuben

How is "me and you" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCraney

In English, you always put yourself last. This is correct grammar, but everybody will understand "me and you". It's up to you if you want to sound educated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cloudsdale4ever

But we're not learning English here, are we?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beck440818

If they want the answer to be "you and I" then the prompt should be "kamu dan aku".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shmo141998

If the goal of this question is to make sure that the learner understands Aku= Me/I and Kamu=You, the answer "me and you" should be accepted. because Aku is written first in the prompt...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JarrodMain

Same as other comments; "me and you" should stand as a correct answer. To only accept "You and I" is over-zealous prescriptivism and in fact is not always the correct syntax.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pete_the_dude

"Me and you" should not be wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeppetarp

Shouldn’t it Be “me and you” ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/koozie_24

Im pretty sure its supposed to be "me and you" if its with "i" it should be "you and i" just an fwi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BertScholten

It is literally me and you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marthe393053

Me and you seems like a correct translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ferrydust

Why is Me and You wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmeliaArema_AG

I answered with "Me and you", and it was marked wrong. The literal translation, without changing the order of the words, would be "Me and you". In English, the correct grammar usage of the phrase listed would be "Me and you", and flipping around the words to "Kamu dan aku", would make it "You and I". Therefore, the "correct" translation is backwards. If I am wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me. If I am correct however, please let the creators/editors see this so the error may be fixed. Terimakasih!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a.jerkov

why is "me and you" incorrect? It is the direct translation of "aku dan kamu", and it's also correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

This is still incorrect..?

When this course first was testing - this question was one question and concept predicted to cause the most trip-ups, barriers and interruptions to learning the language, due to pedantic semanticism.

From the number of comments - it appears that this prediction is proving to be true.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jake64246

It's: me and you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam117151

Why is Me and You not accepted here seems to be the correct English translation. This should be fixed


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

"Another correct solution: I and you" needs to be updated to reflect previous corrections to "You and I" in earlier lessons.

The discussions there led to the substitution of "I and you" due to non-contextual sentence and proper Inggris translation using preposition (eg, "only") before objective [(i)t/(s)he(y)] and I.

Aku/Saya = I / Me, so it is acceptable for "me and you", but improper english for "I and you" - the alternate translation order puts "I" first - therefore syntax must be corrected for English grammar in this [alternate] translation.

I did not check if "you and me" would be acceptable - this would also be, as it is interchangeable with "me and you".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/theSardonyx

"You and me" isn't accepted by Duolingo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

I'd hope that's fixed by now - I'll add it to the things to test if fixed or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterHilto3

No, we are not learning English, but the question was to translate from another laguage to English, so the result should be correct English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterHilto3

You and I is by far more correct than I and you...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JarrodMain

But 'me and you' is also grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarkHylian

As far I can remember, English grammar includes politeness context as in French.

When you enumerate people, "I" (or we) is always the last.

Reason ? Putting "I" in any other place would denote a kind of selfishness which is not acceptable as you should always respect your interlocutor.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

Interesting history lesson right there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterHilto3

Not in English, it isn't. It should be 'you and me' or 'you and I'. For example, take this sentence: 'Me and you are going to the pictures.' Now test it by removing the 'and you'. 'Me are going to the pictures' - not good grammar! In fact, terrible! But when it is 'you and me' and you remove the 'and me', it becomes 'You are going to the pictures' and correct grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JarrodMain

It's certainly ungrammatical in the example you gave, but that doesn't make it universally ungrammatical. e.g. 'They want me and you to clean up' is grammatical. 'You and I' would be ungrammatical in this instance for the reason you just gave: 'They want I to clean up.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterHilto3

In the context of my example above, your example would then be: "They want you to clean up." The test involves removing the 'and I'. Rather than jump back and forth with examples and such, I am remembering the genesis of all this discussion: translate from one language to English, which means the result must align within correct grammatical constraints of English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sonja825021

Doesn't that mean "Me and you" and not "You and I"? Wrong way round?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shayb90

I ended up translating back in english as

'I. and You'...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rita825831

i am confused as aku means I or me and kamu means you. why is me and you for that one incorrect when the order of the words is correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bierdame_Bo

My grandmother told me there are several pronouns to use depending on your status and your relationship towards the other, more than just saya and aku, is that correct? I thought saya was the most formal, aku the most informal and that there are some inbetween?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

Yes. https://ielanguages.com/indonesian-pronouns.html

Also, your grandmother would refer to herself as "grandmother", your mother "mother" and your father "father".

Mother: "Ibu ingin kamu membelikan saya jeruk".

Child: "Ibu ingin kita membeli jeruk agar ayah bisa memakannya".

Father: "Ayah suka jeruk, terima kasih sudah membelinya".

Mother: "teman ibu, beliau juga suka jeruk."

(because Ibu's friend is older and "important" to the kid. Although - they'd probably use ia, as it is a family and not a formal letter... The formal language in Duolingo in Indonesian is more suited to business letters than it is speaking.

It ought to be taught later on in the course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomi3094

I would say "me and you" So how it sound "me and you" if its not that one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheporbik

it says Aku dan kamu, it does NOT say Kamu dan aku.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbdallaAbd276741

Why is she not using saya as the other lessons


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam117151

Me And You should be accepted it is how it is written!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cloudsdale4ever

If it is such a big problem with "Me and you" for the English grammar nazis, how about changing the Indonesian version to "Kamu dan aku" instead to match the English grammar? I guess this should make everyone happy and remove the unneeded confusion. Also, "You and me" should be accepted as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArnetDonkin

In another place on the course I was maked incorrect when I switched a very similar phrase to the English way of saying something. THere's an element of guesswork in whether phrases need to be translated in literal word order or reorganised to make good sense as an English phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeek12300

When do you use Aku rather than Saya?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tassilo6

"Aku" is the personal form, whereas "Saya" is the more formal version.

If you speak with an elder person or someone in a higher hierarchy level, you use "Bapak/Pak" or "Ibu/Bu" (Father, Mother) instead of "Kamu", and "Saya" for I/Me instead of "Aku". When talking to a very close friend, you can use "Aku" and "Kamu". If some person is in your age and hierarchy level, but not so close, you call him/her sister or brother (Mbak or Mas) or elder sibling (Kakak) and yourself "Saya".

Indonesian is a little complicated for Europeans in that respekt. Sorry if there are any mistakes (especially in writing), I just learned these things orally from my Indonesian girlfriend in Indonesia.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MagdaCamac7

I don’t get it, first you write kamu Dan aku you and I Then you say Aku Dan kamu means the same


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCraney

Aku dan kamu surely means "Me and you" not "You and I" even though the latter is grammatically correct in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordonDrum1

Q. Why Aku dan kamu and not Saya dan kamu? I do not know when to use saya, kamu, dia as opposed to aku, kalian, la etc. Please explain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordonDrum1

Kamu, Anda, kalian...when do I use each form of "you"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vadim156161

Funny thing, I would have actually written "You and I." if the prompt were "Saya dan kamu." or "Saya dan Anda.", since those are supposed to be more formal than "Aku dan kamu.", but here I thought that "Me and you." would have been perfectly fine. Guess not, huh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jithin_babu

English, we have tk respect others first , eg: my wife and i ( not me and my wife) my friend and i ( not me and ny Friend ) goes to movie. So here You and I is correct as per grammar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpaceDandy_Meow

'You and I' is technically the correct way to put it in English, but with the Indonesian example, Aku dan kamu, it's the opposite. Some languages (not sure if this one applies yet) does not have the formality associated with 'You and I' - formal and correct vs 'Me and you' - less formal/not polite/not proper. Wish it would of been explained if this was the case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amen_Oreos

"You and I" is the proper way, you always put "I" after the other person you are referring to. But people will still definitely understand if you say "me and you", they might just correct you.

But thank you duolingo for only putting the one with the correct grammar as the right answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterAusti2

If you've come here because you wish to debate the "I and you" or "me and you" or "you and me" or "I and you" thing - your native language is holding you back from learning to think in Indonesian.

Language is fluid. Especially Indonesian.

English has "proper" rules, as does Indonesian - but, remember - this is probably one of the first questions you've been asked in the course and you've spend more time discussing it than accepting the fact that "aku" means both "I and you".

Perhaps the discussion will ingrain this forever in your mind.

But it's been discussed to death.

You know. So - use your knowledge, move on, learn more.

Trust me, I'm a doctor.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cloudsdale4ever

No. It's rather the fact that when someone is already trying to think in Indonesian and typed these pronouns in the same order as they were in the Indonesian version, they got dinged for it. It unnecessarily shifts the focus OFF of thinking in Indonesian towards thinking in proper English grammar and avoiding all these traps you set for us on the English side of the equation.

Sure, we can move on, and most of us did (some of us even away from this course), but then someone else will fall to the same traps, and then another one, and another... More and more people will waste their time.

If you insist on just moving on and accepting, then there's not really any "discussion", just us bashing our heads against a wall of deaf concrete.

You say "language is fluid", and yet you can't accept that English natives sometimes say "me and you". Your rule about fluidity applies to English too, you know? Despite what prescriptivists say what the "proper" grammar is, people often change the rules to make them fit their own needs better, and that's what language is for: expressing ideas and communication, not just obeying rules for the sake of obeying them. Descriptivists don't try to enforce rules upon people. Instead they try to describe the rules that are in use. I'm with them.

As for trusting the doctors: experience taught me to never trust them. Especially when they look like a skeleton :q

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