"These letters and books are mine."

Translation:Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini punya saya.

August 17, 2018

46 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ramainvicta

"Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini adalah milikku" should be correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ram6969

I don't understand the need to add "punya" in this instance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessm.jm

"Punya" is similar to "milik". If you do not add "punya", the sentence will become "these letters and books are ME".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Audrey329869

@jessm.jm can you develop please, i don't get it.

"surat saya" = "my letter" and not "i am a letter". Right ?

So why "surat2 ini saya" = "these letters are ME", and not "these letters are mine" ? Why is it necessary to add "punya" to indicate possession in that case...?

THANKS for your help in simple english cos' i am not anglophone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

Because Indonesian pronouns have no cases, "saya" by itself can mean "I", "me", or "my". So rigid sentence structure is important to understand the meaning. If "saya" comes right after a noun or noun phrase, it means "my", but if it comes after another pronoun, like "ini", it can't mean "my" any more, and is interpreted as meaning "me".

In order to say that something is mine, we need to add another noun before "saya" representing the thing we're talking about. Usually the noun is something like "milik"(property) or "punya"(possession). So we actually have to say something is my possession instead of just saying it is mine.

In English, pronouns still change to show case, so we can easily tell the difference between "me" and "my/mine", so "mine" can be used by itself in the second half of a sentence and it's still clear what it means.

What is your first language? Maybe I could explain it better in terms of your language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emperorchiao

It would make the whole thing one possessed noun phrase, like "these letters and books of mine", right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fhwqhgads

Yes, but how can I tell if the expression is even a sentence or just a phrase?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pierre60924

It depends on the context of the sentence. In this case, the context is you own the books and the letters


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dini07my

Mine: punya saya /punyaku/milik saya/milikku


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angbagongquezon

"Buku ini punya saya"

"This book has me"

The book: She is my owner.

Me: I own the book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

In this case, "punya" isn't a verb meaning "have" or "own", but a noun meaning posession. So it means "This book is my posession"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurKays

why is "surat-surat dan buku-buku ini milikku" not a correct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angbagongquezon

It was not? It should've been.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HenriCooks

''Milik'' should be correct here right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Putu_Tom

I would have thought that: Surat surat dan buku buku ini milikku would be just as valid as the above answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiaZmijaLija

Why was punya necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeromeTri

With "punya saya" at the end of the sentence, isn't the meaning like : these letters and books OWN me ? Isn't it the other way round ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

Punya here is a noun meaning belonging or posession similar to milik. Buku ini punya saya means this book is my belonging.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessm.jm

It is more like "owned by me" rather than "own me"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CantabileBoo

"Koran-koran dan buku-buku ini milik saya" is also okay, or not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FallUpsideDown

I put milikku instead of punya saya why isn't it accepted ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisHoki

reading the script below it is time to mark "milik" as well as punya as correct in this answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelly721143

"Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini milik saya" should also be accepted, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanJustin2

why is the hyphen not always used but not always accepted when you dont use it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blobertcoltrane

For those wondering, my Indonesian wife says that "punya saya" is very formal. In day to day speech you can just use "saya".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

Really? So, "surat2 dan buku2 ini saya"? The native speaker I talked to said that sounded like nonsense - "these letters and books are me" is what they heard.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ctrntt

Could it not be punya aku?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EsperantoEthan

Could someone help out? How do you know that it doesn't say "these letters and books have me"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

I think it's technically ambiguous because the verb punya (have) and the noun punya (posession) look the same, however the phrase "punya saya (my posession)" is routinely used in this way to show posession and the context would normally make it clear.

However, in contexts where someone or something might actually have the speaker, there could be some confusion. For example, "Kamu punya saya" might mean "you have me" or "You are mine". It may be that a native speaker might use "milik saya" instead of "punya saya" in some situations to avoid misunderstandings, because "milik (property)" is more commonly used as a noun and only rarely used as a verb to mean "own".

Also in formal Indonesian, "mepunyai" is a verb that explicitly means "have", and "kepunyaan" is most likely a noun that means "posession", so you could always use this type of language when clarity is important, but it might be weird in casual speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FransReave

Is "Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini milikku." wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

It's right, but it might not be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slamets

Surat-surat ini dan buku buku adalah milik saya. Mengapa tidak benar ? Secara gramatikal Indonesia itu makan sudah dopat dipahami.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1GrafixSt

Pumya does not fit here. Infact ada does


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

The short answer is no. "Punya" in this case is not a verb, but a noun meaning something that you have, in other words a possession. So the sentence literally means, "These letters and books are my possesessions". "Ada" is not used to express "are" in this case.

The long answer is this. In English, the forms of the verb "be" are used to express existence/being as well as to express identity, but in many other languages these two concept are expressed in different ways. In a sentence like "These letters and books are mine", "are" is what's called a copula - it expresses identity by coupling a subject with another thing like a noun or adjective referred to as the compliment.

In Indonesian, copulae like that are regularly implied simply by stating the subject, and then stating the compliment - no verb is required between the subject and compliment. In this particular sentence, the subject is "Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini"(These letters and books) and the compliment is "punya saya" (my possessions).

"Ada" is a verb that expresses existance/being. If we say, "Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini ada.", it means "These letters and books exist" or "There are these letters and books". Ada cannot be used to link a subject with a compliment, but it can be used with an adverb to express how or where something exists - for example, "Surat-surat dan buku ini ada di sekolah" means "These letters and books are/exist at school."

There is another word, "adalah", which hasn't been introduced yet. This word can be used as a copula. So you could say "Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini adalah punya saya". However, you still can't drop "punya", because if you said "Surat-surat dan buku-buku ini adalah saya" it would sound like you were saying "These letters and books are me".

"Saya" can only mean "my/mine" when it comes right after a noun phrase , so that's why to say something is mine in Indonesian, we have to use "saya" with a noun like "punya" or "milik".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John135429

Why doesn't the sentence "... punya aku." work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slamets

These letters and these books are belong to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam425562

'Surat surat ini dan buku buku punya saya' is also correct, I am told by a native Bahasa speaker


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

By putting 'ini' after 'surat surat' only, it's equivalent to saying in English "Books and these letters are my belongings", while it's technically correct and you'd probably get your point across, it's kind of weird. It would be better to put 'ini' after each item, or after the last item so that it is understood as describing all of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.aLdAjC

These letters and books are mine

But i always write like this- Surat surat ini dan buku buku ini ada saya


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

That would mean "These letters and these books exist me"

First, "ada" can't be used as a copula like english am/is/are, it only means that something exists. A copula is a word that connects the subject of a sentence with a word or phrase called the complement, which identifies or defines the subject. Think of a copula like an = sign. For example, in the sentence "This cat is white", "this cat" is the subject, "is" is the copula, and "white" is the complement. In Indonesian, copulae are usually ommited by just saying the subject, then saying the complement - "Kucing ini putih". There is a word "adalah" which can be used as a copula, but it's normally reserved for more complex or technical sentences. It would be strange to use "adalah" with a simple sentence like this.

Second, "saya" only means "my" if it comes right after a noun, otherwise it means "I" or "me". In order to put it after a copula like english "mine" there has to be a noun right before it that represents the subject or subjects. Two common nouns used for this are "punya" which means "belonging" or "milik" which means "property".

So in the sentence "Surat surat dan buku buku ini punya saya", "Surat surat dan buku buku ini" is the subject, the copula is ommited, and "punya saya" is the complement meaning "my belongings" - "These letters and books are my belongings"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fghsses

Should "Ini surat-surat dan buku-buku saya" be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EFrisco

That would work, although perhaps the emphasis is slightly different. Think "These are my letters and books" vs "These letters and books are my property". Both mean the same, but you would use them in different situations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kenji399453

why there can be "my cat" = Kucing saya; but the above letters and books have to have punya???

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