She should have known it Deve averlo saputo
I thought she should have known it would translate as deve averlo saputo but an Italian friend told me dovevo saperlo? Now I’m confused I would translate dovevo saperlo -she was supposed to know it Ha Dovuto Saperlo - she had to know it Any help would be greatful
I’ve made a big mistake here in my question. I meant she must have known it
I made a huge mistake in my entry to this forum and am kicking myself. What I meant to say is “she must have known it!” Hence deve averlo saputo
Ciao Jules. Non ti preoccupare. The first entry I made two years ago told the world I had a golden hotel instead of "albero"! Eek! Have a good evening:-)
Ciao Linda.. haha..LOL..That really makes me feel better about my own first attempts at communicating with native french speakers on Eurosport football section..also couple years ago....they really had a good laugh at the time..:-)) you are right,it is all learning process..
Therefore it is important to take yourself and others with humor and expect some criticism..makes one grow.. when one French fan on that site tried to really mock me for my mistakes, i just wrote to him in French:.".hey,you, do not worry so much..I am just a French learner..tomorrow I will write a lot better, I promise!:-))" he had nothing to respond to that..:-))
You're so right. Because of my mistakes (3 in one sentence!) a fellow Duolinguist spent over 12 months teaching me. The club has definitely taught me to talk senza paura, regardless of "golden hotels". A dopo...
You were very fortunate to have such a teacher and that is why now you encourage others.. A dopo !..:-))
She must have known it.
I am trying to contextualize the sentence.
This seems to me as a remark if, for instance, I challenged Vesna by saying: "Try and guess what's my telephone number" and, quite surprisingly, her guess was right. So Linda may comment: "She must have known it!"
In this case the Italian translation would be:
- (Lei) lo doveva sapere.
- (Lei) doveva saperlo.
in which dovere does not express an obligation of some kind, but is used with a meaning of "it could have not been any other way".
Instead, in a completely different context, speaking of something that "she" was ought to know:
- She should have known it. = (Lei) lo avrebbe / l'avrebbe dovuto sapere.
- (Lei) avrebbe dovuto saperlo.
But in the colloquial language also this sentence could often turn into:
- (Lei) lo doveva sapere. / (Lei) doveva saperlo.
So the context of speech would disambiguate the meaning.
CivisRomanus. Ti do incommensurabile, mi dai disambiguate. Grazie per la spiegazione, come sempre:-)
Linda e Civis, ma dove trovate queste parole? Vi piace pavoneggiarsi? :-D
Oh Vesna, questa parola è stupenda. Non vedo l'ora di usarlo:-D))) Mille grazie. Ps, just realised. Pavoneggiarsi as in to dance the pavone (in French).
It was an awesome wordplay , mi piace molto..:)) And thanks to your comment, Vesna, I just learned a new verb..pavoneggiarsi..(to show off?)..what an awesome expressive language..
Giovanna, I am very glad that you like it. When I saw pavoneggiarsi for the first time I though it was fantastic and I had to use it. :-)
Sì!..Yes!! As a novice I am just getting to know the marvellous world of Italian language and some words are absolutely unique and so expressively beautiful.. your language sense is excellent
Ho ho, il libro rosso e grande! Che fantastico. Ma no, Civis, infatti pavoneggiarsi was from Giovanna è disambiguate is yours. I still own the rights, however, to incommensurabile:-D I'm sure you are aware of the E word "discombobulate" so it's now yours to keep. Una buona giornata. L
LOL...:-)))))) Tutti e due,voi, siete completamente formidabili..
Linda, grazie per un complimento ,ma la parola "pavoneggiarsi ' non è venuta da me ,ma da @Vesna 2691.. I learned it from the comment made by VESNA 2691
Civis, grazie mille per aver introdotto questo libro..!:-))
Ciao Giovanna. Have explained my discombobulation to Vesna. Divertiti il giorno:-)
The equivalent Italian verb is very similar: scombussolare. :-)
The initial s- is the short form of the prefix dis-, and the rest of the word clearly shares the same origin.
Ciao Vesna, mi dispiace "pavoneggiarsi" viene di te, non Giovanna. I was too busy practicing the pavane and was discombobulated! What a fine Discussion stream we have created:-D
Linda, no need to apologize. I agree,"fancy" words are fun, but I have a (Italian grammar) mountain to climb. So, for me is back to basics. Io sono, tu sei, lui/lei ...... :-D
@ Civis Romano simply brilliant..great explanations
È davvero una spiegazione brillante
Thanks Civus , that’s really helpful, am grateful for you help on this forum. Now I’m wondering if have mixed up these ones too?
She must have left - Deve aver lasciato She must have heard - deve aver sentito She must have seen it- deve averlo visto She must have done it - deve averlo fatto
She must have left - Deve aver lasciato
She must have heard - deve aver sentito
She must have seen it- deve averlo visto
She must have done it - deve averlo fatto
All of them are correct, congrats!
However, if "she must have left" means "she must have departed", the Italian verb is not lasciare, but partire:
- She must have left = Deve essere partita → Dev'essere partita.
And if "she must have left" means "she must have gone away" (from a given place), the verb is andarsene or andare via (or, informally, a combination of both).
So the sentence would turn into:
- She must have left = Deve essersene andata → Dev'essersene andata
- Deve essere andata via → Dev'essere andata via
- Deve essersene andata via → Dev'essersene andata via.
The interesting feature of bagno is that one can go / be either in or al:
- al bagno / in bagno.
With any other part of the house one can only go / be in:
Instead, with two synonyms of bagno only al / alla can be used:
- She must have gone to the toilet. = Dev’essere andata al bagno / in bagno.
Since the auxiliary is essere, the past participle must agree with the subject of the sentence ("she") → andatA.
(no reply button, either)
Devo essere molto attenta di quello che io dica, perché tu possa usarlo per un'altra lezione di grammatica. :-D (Does this even make sense in Italian?)
This is a tough sentence, I'm impressed! It only needs a little tuning:
- Devo stare molto attenta a quello che (io) dico...
Essere attento/attenta is not wrong, but it would be used in a very limited number of contexts. In a large majority of cases, when the meaning is "to beware" (of something), "to pay attention", "to focus" (on something), etc., stare attento/attenta is the verb used, literally "to stay careful".
The prepositions used with the verb are:
Stare attento a... = To beware of... / To be careful of... / To pay attention to... /
Stare attento nel + infinitive = To be careful / take care in (doing)
With regard to the second part of your sentence, the choice of the mood for the verb potere is crucial, because the meaning of perché depends on it, so the meaning of the whole clause can completely change:
perché (tu) puoi... / potresti... = because you can... / could...
perché (tu) possa... = so that you can... (in order for you to...)
The conjunction perché can take two different meanings:
- perché + indicative or conditional = because (in a causal clause)
this perché can be replaced with poiché, or in quanto / in quanto che;
- perché + subjunctive = so that (in a final clause, a.k.a. clause of purpose).
this perché can be replaced with affinché.
So in your sentence:
...perché (tu) puoi / potresti usarlo per un'altra lezione di grammatica. = ...because you can / could use it for another grammar lesson.
...perché (tu) possa usarlo per un'altra lezione di grammatica. = ...so that you can use it (in order for you to use it) for another grammar lesson.
Sorry, no reply button there.
Civis, mi stai spaventando. Devo essere molto attenta di quello che io dica, perché tu possa usarlo per un'altra lezione di grammatica. :-D (Does this even make sense in Italian?)
Impressed? Civis you are kidding me! My sentence is completely wrong with the wrong meaning. It is embarrassing! No "little tuning" can help it. :-D But, I can live with that. What really gets my blood boiling is that I did not remember STARE attenta. I heard it thousand times in the song "Attenta" from Negramaro.
Thank you for taking the time to correct my mess. :-D
Ciao Jules. Interesting. I would have written "Lei avrebbe dovuto saperlo". Come in CivisRomanus o un madrelingua:-))
È ora di investire in un paio di buoni tappi auricolari. :-D (should it be l'ora?)