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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

"ia" & "dia" , "Basics 2", Tips & Notes, Addendum

"Basics 2", Tips & notes, Addendum

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/id/Basics-2/tips-and-notes

"ia" & "dia" , the differences,

It isn't mentioned in the "Tips & notes" of "Basics 2".
"ia" also doesn't come up frequently in the lessons.
It's just in case you see it in one of the sentences.
(You'll always see it in example sentences in the dictionary).


"ia" & "dia" ==> 3rd person singular pronoun.

Both can be used as subject of the sentence (3rd person singular)

The differences :
"ia" is not used as an object in a sentence.
"ia" is not used as an indirect object in a sentence.
"ia" is not used as a possessive pronoun.
"ia" can be used for physical objects.
"dia" is not used for physical objects.


Examples :

Ia melihatku (okay)(subject of sentence)
Dia melihatku (okay)(subject of sentence)

Saya melihat ia (not so okay, object of sentence)
Saya melihat dia (okay)
Saya melihatnya (okay)

Saya menerima surat dari ia (not so okay, indirect object of sentence)
Saya menerima surat dari dia (okay)
Saya menerima surat darinya (okay)

Surat itu penting sekali, ia selalu di kantongku.
That letter is very important, it's always in my pocket.

"ia selalu di kantongku" ==>
"ia" is the subject of the sentence, referring to a physical object, the important letter.
"dia" is not to be used here, because you're referring to a physical object.
"ia" can be used here, although "itu" can also be used here in this context.


Another 3rd person singular form is "beliau".
This is a very formal form, seldom used in conversation.
This form can be reduplicated to "beliau-beliau" (3rd person plural).
This form is also seldom used in conversation.
Nevertheless, I think it's good to know these forms exist.


"engkau", "kau" (2nd person singular) are also not mentioned in the Tips & Notes.
These forms are mostly used to address someone you're close with, or used in a poetic way.
I haven't seen these words in the lessons.
However, I think it's good to know that they exist.


That's all for now, thank you for reading.

Selamat belajar.

August 24, 2018

23 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elizabeth693356

Thank you ! Very helpful


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lims41

Amazing explanation! Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenL1

I never knew there was a difference, thank you. FYI there's a small mistake, it's spelled physical, not fysical.

Keep up the great work!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

Thank you.
It's changed now: fysical ==> physical


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark436414

By physical object, You mean an inanimate object(not having life)? Such as a television , a bike, a cup, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

Yes.

Like in this example (referring to a letter, an inanimate object):

Surat itu penting sekali, ia selalu di kantongku.
That letter is very important, it's always in my pocket.

"ia selalu di kantongku" ==>
"ia" is the subject of the sentence, referring to a physical object, the important letter.
"dia" is not to be used here, because you're referring to a physical object.
"ia" can be used here, although "itu" can also be used here in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doug264842

So can "ia" also be used for people? If so, is there any difference in when you would use "ia" vs "dia" as a subject?

Also, would you use "ia" or "dia" for animals?

Thanks for the insight! It seems like there is very little info on the web about "ia."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JawadJoe

Yes, you can use "ia" for people without any grammatical difference. However, "dia" is used much more often in speech when referring to people, regardless of its position and role in a sentence.

Historically, "ia" was the default Malay/Indonesian pronoun for 3rd person. The word "dia" is derived from "di-ia" which is the oblique form of "ia" in Old Malay, just as "aku", "kau" and "kamu" have the oblique counterparts "di-aku", "di-kau", and "di-kamu". Modern Standard Indonesian has "daku" and "dikau" as descendants of "di-aku" and "di-kau", but these are extremely uncommon in casual conversation or texts (mostly only used in poetry). Aside from the formality distinction, though, modern "daku" and "dikau" are interchangeable with "aku" and "kau/kamu", respectively ("di-kamu" has no modern reflex).

NOTE: Old Malay "kamu" was strictly a 2nd person plural pronoun, much like English "you" used to be (vs "thou"). Now both "kamu" and "kau" are used for 2nd person singular (except in some places like Sumatra, where the number distinction between "kamu" and "kau" is partially retained).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elizabeth693356

Thank you - this is very helpful and very interesting


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielVanD18

So would you (mostly) say dia for he/she and his/hers but ia for it and its? Thanks for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick392366

As for myself, I never use 'ia'.

It is mainly used in the formal style, and it is used in almost every example sentence in KBBI.

When referring to 'it', I prefer to use the specific name of the object, or use 'ini'/'itu' , or refer to it in another way.

The example sentence can be rephrased without using 'ia':
- Surat itu penting sekali, ia selalu di kantongku.
- Surat itu yang penting sekali selalu di kantongku.
- Surat yang penting sekali itu selalu di kantongku.

By converting the example sentence into one single sentence, I avoid using 'ia'.
That's how I normally do it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kelemta

Terima kasih di atas penjelasan ini!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

So, only "ia" can translate "it"!
Except for animals.

Is that correct?

If you are a course contributor (I don't know if it's the case) could you add sentences in the exercises sentences where this is demonstrated?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juju6857789

Thank you! super helpful!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DLTM181

Does "physical objects" mean anything inanimate or only physical ones? I want to know if you could use "ia" or "dia" to refer to abstract nouns such as dreams, feelings, words, etc. (like "I had a dream; it was interesting.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chelsea713559

Holy cow, I never knew bahasa Indonesia is this difficult ..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flanders1

Getting the real basics is easy.. but the rest isn't .... much like any other language, I suppose


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chelsea713559

would it be funny if i tell you that I am Indonesian by origin and I find the language is difficult ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flanders1

Not at all! English is my first language but the grammar is still hard.. cheers


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MerryJule

I think many people who started to study and got to "Basics 2" will not be able to understand the translation of examples from this post. It would be great to add a translation next to the examples. This will improve understanding of this post.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chdiaz81

Muchas gracias por la explicación.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AkmalK1

Thanks a lot! These are so helpful. Terima kasih banyak! Ini sangat membantu.

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