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"They had tested the students before the breakfast."

Translation:Sie hatten die Schüler vor dem Frühstück geprüft.

March 29, 2013

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aeneaslima

Why can we not say: "Sie hatten vor dem Frühstück die Schüler geprüft."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/untoward

I have the same question. Isn't time usually placed before the object?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikShoemaker

I would say it is usually interchangable, at least in this case. Hence you are correct ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelcioTJ

I believe putting die Schüle next to geprüft would stress the fact that they tested "the students", and not somebody else, before breakfast.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikShoemaker

That version might put emphasis on the Schüler rather than the time, but the english version does not indicate anything of the sort, so both options should be correct IMO.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelcioTJ

I mean, die Schüler.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lmadaldin

Agree time comes first


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikShoemaker

it's perfectly fine, report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SrTortuga

Yeah, I put the same and lost a heart. I thought for a moment that was because of the rule Akk. before Dat., but I checked and that happens just if both objects are nouns! (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=698884&langid=24). Someone please explain!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikShoemaker

you're right, report it :-P (I can stalk you as well)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AvisSilber

It's correct! Report it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CurtisCarm2

On April 25, 2020 "Sie hatten vor dem Frühstück die Schüler geprüft" was accepted. I once read here "the dative object should come before the accusative object, unless the accusative object is a pronoun" but maybe that is not always the case...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

Prepositional phrases like "vor dem Frühstück" don't count as "dative objects," so that rule does not take effect here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CurtisCarm2

Shoot! I thought about that! :-( Thank you! Always one step forward, two steps back...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roman2095

The verb object normally comes after the verb and before the adverbial modifiers (which form part of the mid-field, or *mittelfeld, that comes between the verb object(s) and the verb complement at the end of the sentence).

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/WordOrder/WordOrder1.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KoolSIM

I am wondering too!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bella1089

You guys are all right....would be 500% correct!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ACardAttack

It didn't accept it for me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geojay

Saying "the breakfast" only makes sense if the reader / listener is aware of one particular breakfast. Normally there would be no "the" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DannyOcean

I pictured a big group breakfast event in my head when reading this sentence. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Puett

Hear, hear! Why is the "the" still there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marian150342

The ‘the’ is still here because it is correct in German. They use the definite article in places where we wouldn’t in English. This is the beauty of Duolingo - I kept forgetting this and it keeps reminding me!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tolkjes

After all these years! Me too, I wondered about the 'the' before breakfast. Makes me wonder who is making up these sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan_Nicholson

Why is 'bevor' vs 'vor' incorrect? That was my only difference to the suggested answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roman2095

bevor is a conjunction and vor is a preposition. The latter is required here as it introduces an adverbial phrase, not a clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laure-vaea

why is it "vor" here and not "bevor"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roman2095

In this context I think that would be because "bevor" could be used if a conjunction were required (joining two clauses) but what is required here is a preposition (as there is only one clause), so "vor" is used as the preposition with "the breakfast" as its object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zawerg

Exactly. "Vor" is a preposition. You say "vor dem Frühstück". But you can't say "bevor dem Frühstück". "Bevor" is a conjunction. You could say "bevor sie frühstückten."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trd487

Why "Schüler" and not "Studenten"? Also, why not "getestet" instead of "geprüft"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margusoja

Studenten was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jujubees

What is wrong in this sentence please "Sie hatten vorm Frühstuck die Studenten geprüft" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/terminalmage

As far as I know, "vorm" is not a word. You may be confusing this with "vom", which is a contraction of "von dem". There is no such contraction of "vor dem" of which I am aware.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/terminalmage

Well, I take that back. It's not in my dictionary like the other contractions, but the internet seems to be pretty sure "vorm" is a thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/requin230

Yes, it is a thing but usually only in spoken german.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BorisBerns

I hope the students tasted good, and that they left some for lunch as well


[deactivated user]

    isnt Schüler pupils and not students?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dari301092

    Yes, you are right


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfblaze

    I'm not sure why this uses geprüft and not geprufen or something similar.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

    "geprüft" is a participle. It doesn't change according to person or number. The only verb that's conjugated is the auxiliary "haben".

    Give these a thorough read:

    http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/Grammatik/perfect/Perfect.html

    http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/Grammatik/perfect/PastPerfect.html


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfblaze

    This is precisely what I've been looking for. Thank you, Christian.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2200Lucia60

    Can we say "Vor dem Frühstück hatten sie die Schüler geprüft" too? I think it is like saying Morgen dürfen wir zu Hause gehen versus We dürfen morgen zu Hause gehen. In the first sentence, is put in evidence the point of time, in the second is put in evidence the action. "Vor dem Frühstück hatten sie die Schüler geprüft" is a little different like saying "Sie hatten die Schüler vor dem Frühstück geprüft". Dear experts of German, am I right??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ungewitig_Wiht

    Isn't before translated bevor and not just vor while vor is in front of?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AvisSilber

    In German you don't make a real difference between time and place prepositions. 'Vor/bevor' means both 'before' and 'in front of'. There is no real difference between 'vor' and 'bevor'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheerfulcharlie

    Not true. Vor/bevor are used differently. Bevor is a subordinating conjunction, whereas vor is not. Vor is used in prepositional phrases. Bevor ich zum Markt gehe, muss ich meine Mutter schlagen <-- Requires bevor here (vor is wrong in this context). Vor der Prüfung, schlage meine Mutter (this context requires vor, whereas using bevor here would be wrong).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/armindoost

    Why not " Sie hatten die schüler vor das Frühstück geprüft"? I thought it would takes accusative because there is an action here in this sentence? Wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zawerg

    Yes, it's wrong. In this case, "vor" needs dative.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/myitguy

    What's wrong with (or what would the translation be) for "Sie hatten die Studenten geprüft vor dem Frühstück"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/idshanks

    German word order requires the past participle in this instance to be placed at the end of the clause. It will always come towards the end but sometimes another verb or two might come after it (such as in a subordinate clause).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohamedFarghaly

    Would "Bevor" work here instead of "vor"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scorbett

    "Sie hatten die Studenten geprüft, bevor das Frühstück" is marked incorrect, but it seems like it should be okay. Can't you split it into two clauses like that?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/terminalmage

    "bevor" can't be used in a propositional phrase, it is used in a subordinating clause and thus is accompanied by a verb instead of a noun. So it wouldn't work here since we just have "before the breakfast". You would need something like Bevor die Studenten gefrühstückt haben, hatten sie sie geprüft. (Before the students had breakfast, they had tested them.) However, this would not match the sentence from the exercise.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladimirOlteanu

    I said "Sie hatten die Schüler vom Frühstück geprüft" and it was marked as incorrect. Why is "vom" not accepted (instead of "vor dem")?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

    Because "vom" means "von dem," not "vor dem." (You could, however, write "vorm.")


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ishay40hours

    Actually, "vorm" is not accepted because it is colloquial (non-standard)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/App382599

    Why can't we use studenten?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

    You can. Most likely Duo was really flagging you for a mistake elsewhere in your sentence. What was your entire answer?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/francesch

    I give up, on this topic. I typed "Sie hatten die Schüler vor dem Früstück geprüft." and "Sie hatten die Schüler vorm Früstück geprüft." Both were marked wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HenrySurfs

    Do not give up! The little mistake you made is in the word "Früstück" ... try "Frühstück"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sherry611506

    vor dem frühstück , why dativ, i think shoud be akk


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

    It shouldn't. "Vor" always uses the dative when it's referring to time.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen83116

    5 YEARS AND THE "STOMP" ISSUE IS STILL NOT RESOLVED.

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