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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

ए, ऐ, and एै

So my understanding earlier was that ए = é as in hey, and ऐ = e as in pen, but it seems to me like there are sometimes exceptions. For example for ऐनक or पैसा I hear the é sound. I'm also aware of a एै symbol sometimes used at the beginning of words. Could a mother tongue Hindi speaker shed light on this?

PS. If you're curious why I care, it's because my name is Evan and I'm trying to figure out how to transliterate. I've been told एैविन is the best bet.

EDIT: Okay, एै doesn't actually exist. Sorry about that.

August 27, 2018

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

ऐनक and पैसा are indeed pronounced with a vowel close if not identical to that of "pen", as you initially thought. एै looks cool but is most certainly a typo: it's basically a vowel carrying a vowel diacritic, and hence meaningless in Hindi. A few more, similar chimaeric forms will be अी, इा, and एो. :D

Looking at the transliteration of your name you were suggested, is "Evan" pronounced with an "i" vowel after the "v"? I thought "Evan" sounded like "ee-vun" or "e-vun" but the "वि" of "एैविन" has me confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

Thanks for the help. I agree that एै doesn't appear to exist. I'm not sure where I imagined that.

So 'Evan' is actually pronounced like 'Evin' in speech (at least where I'm from) with 'e' as in 'pen' and 'in as in pin'. I don't mind if the a is also pronounced like the 'e' in pen, but I think Hindi speakers would pronounce एवन or ऐवन like 'A1', which I'd prefer to avoid. Thoughts?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

Thanks for clarifying the vowel sounds. The best approximation of your name then is एविन.

It's true that ए is a long vowel and doesn't capture the short "e" sound of "pen", but since the short vowel doesn't exist in Hindi, we have to go with the sound closest to it. This happens with a lot of other foreign words as well. The very word "pen" is transliterated as पेन (which by itself is pronounced with a long vowel and hence sounds close to "pain"), but no-one with a basic knowledge of English would pronounce the "पे" with a long vowel, given the context. The same goes for पेट्रोल, एजेंट, and अमेरिका where the bold letters are pronounced with a short vowel so as to sound close to the original pronunciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

Thanks, एविन sounds good to me in that case!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RanzoG

It seems I disagree with everyone here (!) and would say to write ऐविन.

As we know, Devanagari is not a "phonetic" system. The symbols represent meaningful classes of sound, i.e. phonemes. The trick is to map the English sound to what Devanagari writers have chosen to represent the sound, most closely. Everyday Devanagari does not use different symbols to represent "e" in pen and "a" in pan. This appears to be because both are considered allophones, i.e. natively, there is no meaningful difference between these vowels. The convention has been to represent both English vowels with the one Devanagari letter, ऐ. Hence, see at this link how both pen and pan are transliterated: पैन. http://hindi-english.org/index.php?input=pain&trans=Translate&direction=AU

(I am not a native speaker of Hindi, but I have a lot of experience going back and forth between these languages. And I noticed that native speakers chiming in potential don't know how "Evan" is pronounced—so despite their expertise in their own sounds system, there is a potential to get this mixed up.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vj-

Like you, I'm not a native speaker, but switch between the two a lot. I actually think most of these transliterations would work; none will be exact. Whilst my preference is in my comment above, I don't think there's a perfect solution for any transliteration, take my name as a reverse example - Vijay\विजय. The "Vi" should be pronounced exactly the same as in common English names like Victor or Victoria, a simple, almost exact transliteration you'd think but most native English speakers pronounce it as "Veejay".

Although typing that, I've just noticed that the Hindi spelling of my name gives weight to your translation regards pronounciaton of "वि" in Evan.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

Thank you both for the input. I think ultimately there is no perfect fit, and any way I write it there will be some ambiguity on pronunciation. I think I'll settle for एविन, because even though it risks being pronounced like eh-veen, I'd prefer that to 'A1' (which an Indian friend actually though एवन was meant to transliterate, hence this thread).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShirishSri

please do not use hunterian transliteration and other systems to transliterate your name, it won't work , they were the cause of a lot of controversy in india. if you still want I can transliterate your name most accurately into devnagari so that any native reader will pronounce your name correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShirishSri

hi ranzo, hindi is not a phonetic system but all indian languages are phonetic languages (or I should rather say scripts). For historical reasons we changed the spellings of words and adapted them so that it would be easy to print them(bcoz of limitations of the printing press at the time). and there are some other historical reasons which I will not go into here. The native learners pronounce the letters properly but write it incorrectly(unintentionally) because those spelling have sadly become convention(not everywhere). Here are a few good articles. There is a great dissent among indian hindi scholars to do away with wrong spellings so that learning hindi becomes easy(as most kids have a lot of problem with spellings). An interesting fact is that 3 generations ago the whole of india used to use mostly nastaliq( for official purpose, and it was what was taught in school [ie urdu] urdu is another indian language(basically hindi with more farsi words)) so when a lot of people shifted back to using devnagari, naturally there were a lot of spelling mistakes and wrong pronunciation. but there are other historical reasons as well. Some nice articles you might be interested in..

https://www.2indya.com/2014/12/28/तो-क्या-अब-अमेरिकी-तथा-ब्र/ https://www.2indya.com/2015/02/19/हिन्दी-भाषा-में-अनुस्वार-2/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pokhriyalvishnu

I am a mother tongue hindi speaker, and I haven't heard of a hindi symbol like (the first letter you uses in your hindi name)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

Okay, thanks for the tip!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vj-

I'm not a native speaker, but a heritage one so take this with a pinch of salt, but I'd say एवन is a much closer fit. The ि matra (vowel mark) makes me read that as "eheevan". Like pokhriyyalvishnu, I've not seen ऐै do you mean ऍ ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeebo7

On further investigation it seems like एै doesn't exist. I'm not sure where I'd seen it.

So this is very pedantic, but for some reason in daily speech 'Evan' ends up sounding more like 'Evin' (e as in pen, i as in pin). So I was wondering if the ि perhaps captured that. Actually pronouncing the 'a' sound comes across as strange to my ears now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShirishSri

it does exist but it's not a frequently used sound. native speaker + linguistically aware.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/23Diya

I would like to clarify one thing in case you are curious about the pronunciations. ऐनक or पैसा are not enunciated the same way. While in words with े like लेख or ऐनक the sound comes like é, in words with ै like पैसा the sounds is like in 'pan' not like that of 'pen'.

Your name probably would be read in India as इवान by most people (including me). And एैविन written like Avin. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

By the way, the first vowels in लेख and ऐनक aren't pronounced in the same manner either - I'm sure you know this, just pointing it out so it doesn't confuse any learner. The " े" of ऐ is a part of the vowel, which itself sounds close to the "e" of "pen". It's not like the " े" of लेख (beyond appearance) because here it is a diacritic corresponding to the vowel ए, which kind of sounds like the "a" in "late", especially in American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShirishSri

hi evan if you are still interested I can give you the correct way to pronounce it; there seems to be a lot of confusion here, I'll be able to give you the exact way in which your name can be spelt in devnagari. please provide a small audio clip with you pronouncing your name.

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