"Dia menghilang ketika penulisan buku ini selesai."

Translation:She disappears when this book's writing process is finished.

August 30, 2018

10 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

The "writing process" usually refers to a method. The project itself is more usually simply "the writing of the book."

August 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

The "writing process" usually refers to a method.
The project itself is more usually simply "the writing of the book."

This is interesting.
To be honest, I don't know the difference between these two.
Hopefully you can it explain it to me :)
In the meantime, let me try to explain the 'pe-an' circumfix.

pe-an creates a noun, meaning 'the process of performing the [verb]'.
The base word is usually a transitive verb (like in this sentence).
That's the reason for the official Duolingo translation.

tulis (verb) = to write.
penulisan (noun) = the process of writing.

Here is a shameless copy/paste from my grammar book:

Most nouns with peN-…-an have verbal bases.
They refer to the action expressed by the corresponding transitive verb and are often translatable as ‘the act of doing what the verb refers to’.
In the example below, penulisan ‘the act of writing, the writing’ relates to menulis ‘write’;

Penulisan buku itu memerlukan dua tahun.
The writing of that book took two years.

So, my grammar book uses the same word as an example and agrees with your translation.
To me, this word 'the writing' is a process, well at least that's how I see it.
I still don't understand the difference between 'the writing of the book' and 'the process of writing the book'.

September 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

I am almost certain I would translate penulisan as simply the writing, as these are simply the nominalizations of the verbs. This is the term we generally use for the act itself, so for instance, an academic or lawyer will often ask a colleague "how is the writing going," which I assume might be "Bagaimana penulisan?" I would expect an answer like "I'm three chapters in, but I need to have five by this weekend." On the other hand, if I asked "What is your writing process," I would expect an answer like "I write for two hours every morning before I give classes and then I edit in the evening after dinner." I'm asking not about what you have achieved right now, but what your system or strategy is. It's a bit like asking someone what his analysis is ("He was definitely poisoned") as opposed to what his process of analysis is ("We take tissue samples, separate them in a centrifuge, and then put those separated samples into a gas chromatograph"). If Google Translate can be trusted, the Bahasa Indonesia for "writing process" might be "proses penulisan" or "metode penulisan."

September 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

Thank you very much for your explanation.
I understand the difference now between those two.
Yes, your translation is better, 'this book's writing'.
I'll report it when I see this sentence :-)

The use of the word 'process' in the translation is understandable, and also very logical for me, because that's the actual meaning of the 'pe-an' circumfix.
It's a noun describing the process of the verb.
It's also the official KBBI definition:

penulisan/pe·nu·lis·an/ n proses, cara, perbuatan menulis atau menuliskan

The word process is mentioned.
But you're right.
Now I see that it's better translated as 'the writing of this book'.

Hopefully also accepted as answer, it should be.

September 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

She disappears when the writing of this book is finished. = not accepted, reported

She disappears when this book's writing is finished. = not accepted, reported

September 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NudibranchsRcool

Actually I think the problem here is the order and possession that's all wrong. It's not the books writing process. The book is not writing itself.

"She disapears when the writing of the book is finished." makes more sense. "She dissapears when the process of writing this book is finished" as suggested by Rick392366 also works for me. The whole thing is a proces from beginning to the end.

I would definitely not use
"..when this book's writing is finished." as suggested by Rick392366 as it has the same problem as highlighted in the first instance regarding possession.

September 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

Aha ...okay...the possession, "this book's ..." , I completely overlooked the apostrophe and the meaning of it.
Yes, you're right.
The apostrophe needs to be dropped.

But is it still grammatically correct English if it's dropped ?

"..when this book's writing is finished."
"..when this book writing is finished."

Or can it only be said like this :

"..when the writing of this book is finished." .

September 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils

You either need the possessive "'s" or the "of."

September 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Bobh42

Please let me know the name of your grammar book that you referred to earlier. I need a good Indonesian grammar book. Maybe I can pick it up when I am in Indonesia later this month.

December 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

This is the grammar book that I use:
'Tata Bahasa Baku Bahasa Indonesia (Edisi Ketiga).'
It's an old book (1998), and there is still no new edition.
The Ministry is still working on a 'revision' according to their website.
http://badanbahasa.kemdikbud.go.id/lamanbahasa/produk/801
Yes...that's right...revision since 2007...no end date is mentioned ☺
https://www.bukalapak.com/products/s/buku-tata-bahasa-baku
This TBBI book is written in Indonesian (in the formal style, 'baku').
It's technical and it's not an easy and enjoyable book to read (unless you're a linguist or a grammar lover).

You can also try the following books by James Neil Sneddon (written in English, also 'technical', it's only about grammar).
"Indonesian Reference Grammar"
"Indonesian: A Comprehensive Grammar"

https://www.bookdepository.com/search?searchTerm=&searchTitle=&searchAuthor=james+neil+sneddon&searchPublisher=&searchIsbn=&searchLang=&advanced=true

This one is not so heavy on the grammar:
"A Student's Guide to Indonesian Grammar" by Dwi Noverini Djenar.
https://www.bookdepository.com/search?searchTerm=A+Student%27s+Guide+to+Indonesian+Grammar+by+Dwi+Noverini+Djenar&search=Find+book

Maybe you can borrow a copy in the library in your town.

https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Search/Home?lookfor=james+neil+sneddon&type=all&limit%5B%5D=&submit=Find

https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Search/Home?lookfor=dwi+noverini+djenar&type=all&limit%5B%5D=&submit=Find

December 2, 2018
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