"Who dares open the door?"

Translation:Siapa yang berani membuka pintu itu?

5 months ago

9 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
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So, just to clarify, siapa cannot be the subject of a verb, but rather must be linked to it by yang, right?

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366
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So, just to clarify, siapa cannot be the subject of a verb, but rather must be linked to it by yang, right?

Yes, that's right.
I believe that the other sentence was a passive clause, where 'yang' is inserted to change the subject of the sentence.
This sentence doesn't use a passive verb, but it works the same way with active verbs.
Examples:

Siapa yang menutup jendela itu ?
Siapa yang menulis buku itu?
Siapa yang menghabiskan kue itu ?
Siapa yang bersepeda ke sekolah ?

The above sentences can work without 'yang', but It sounds strange without it.
My grammar book doesn't specifically mention this structure with active verbs, so I have to rely on my Indo-gut-feeling.
Yes, I know, it's not really scientific.
My personal preference is to use 'yang' in these sentences.
It's the same when there is no verb involved, like in the following sentences:

Siapa yang marah ?
Siapa yang sedih ?
Siapa yang gembira ?

I guess it can work without 'yang', but it sounds strange without it.
(Again, no mention of it in my grammar book).
Here are some examples where 'yang' is NOT used:

Siapa kamu ?
Siapa namamu ?
Siapa orang itu ?
Siapa nama orang itu ?
Siapa anak ini ?

These sentences don't have verbs.
'Siapa' is the subject in these non-verbal clauses.
'yang' is NOT used here.

There is also this structure where 'siapa' is part of a noun phrase.
'yang' is also NOT used here.
'Siapa' functions as a possessive in these sentences :

Anak siapa itu ?
Buku siapa ini ?
Mobil siapa itu ?

To summarize :
'Siapa' + 'yang' + [verb]
'Siapa' + 'yang' + [adjective]
'Siapa' + [noun]
[noun] + 'siapa'

There must be other structures as well, so if you see one, please mention it in the 'sentence discussion', so that we can have another look at it.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lockers001
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Great explanation. I also tend to use my gut feeling. I tend to use siapa when the English translation works simply with 'who is/are' and siapa yang when the translation allow for 'who is/was it who. In the above example, Who is it who dares to ... I have found this gut method seems to work fine. I also like your explanation.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with the more rules-bound method, because "who dares to open the door" looks much more natural for me than "who is it who dares to open the door." Does the gut feeling come from living in an Indonesian-speaking environment?

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lockers001
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My Indonesian is mostly self-taught despite my wife being Indonesian. We visit Indo often, but not long enough to be immersed in the language. My reason for gut feeling explanations is from teaching English I have found that few people really understand grammar but still speak quite well. If you understand grammar well, stick with it.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lockers001
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PS ... Given the number of languages you have studied you have likely build up the healthy grasp of grammar needed to understand how each language is structured.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
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I am quite confident of my gut feeling for English grammar, but I have spoken it for a half century and taught it for a couple of decades. I can generally trust my gut feelings for French and Russian, but wouldn't even trust my gut feeling for Hungarian, though I have been reading it for half of my life. I agree with you that the use of "yang" is probably something one has to get a feel for, but that feeling is going to have to come from hearing or reading Indonesian for a rather long period (or some related Austronesian language, probably).

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with the more rules-bound method, because "who dares to open the door" looks much more natural for me

Hahaha...yes, I was actually wondering about the English sentence.
'Who dares open the door'
'Who dares to open the door'

I think the Duolingo sentence is missing the word 'to'.
Or can you omit 'to' ?
It sounds strange/poetic/archaic.
Or is it simply wrong ? :-)

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
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I think the use of the verb "to dare" in this sense may be archaic in general. I definitely say "do you dare say that to her," but the young may only understand "to dare" to mean challenging someone to do something, as in "I dare you to say that to her."

5 months ago
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