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  5. "I do not have the hats. I re…

"I do not have the hats. I returned them to you."

Translation:Je n'ai pas les chapeaux. Je vous les ai rendus.

March 30, 2013

60 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miix

why not 'je te les ai retournés' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

It is more usual to say "je te les ai rendus" but your proposal is correct, and mostly used in business polite language when you shipped something back.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WeiFromTaiwan

Well, for anyone who has the same problem organizing the order of pronouns like I:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=417234

me, te, nous, vous, (me, te, nous, vous)

le, la, les, (le, la, les)

lui et leur (lui et leur)

y et en (y et en)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/willijanb

Thank you, Wilvandal, just what I needed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wolvesbane

Thread is gone now (22nd Sept. 14) :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/candac3

Are there any exceptions to this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosminv6u

Je les ai rendus à vous ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf
  • je les ai rendus à Pierre/à mon frère/au magasin = I returned them to Pierre/your brother/the store (noun or name)
  • je vous/te les ai rendus = I returned them to you (pronoun)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feclips

Just to clarify: if I was returning the hats to a third person ("him"), that would go: "Je lui les ai rendus"? It just sounds really awkward!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

The correct word order is "je les lui ai rendus"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

Omigosh, I never actually realized that the direct and indirect objects swap around like that, depending on which person is referred to. I have heard/read enough French that I do hear the "rightness" of the correct order, but when I start actually thinking about this stuff, I stop being able to tell. Whew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Yes, it is a tough nut, because I can't see any reason why 3rd person singular & plural are exceptions:

  • je te les ai rendus
  • je les lui ai rendus
  • il nous les a rendus
  • je vous les ai rendus
  • je les leur ai rendus

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Algaenon

I get confused about lui. It means him or her but often we'll use "le" or "la" for that. How do I know when to use lui?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"lui" can stand for "à+il" or "à+elle".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/junk01

Does this mean that when an indirect object is a pronoun we can't use the à + indirect object form to mean "to me/you/him/her/us/them"?

I may have found an answer: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/indirectobjects_2.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jschembr

Should rendu have an s at the end?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

yes and it has one at the top of this page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shihancheng

Can you explain why it's rendus instead of rendu? I read paragraphs of explination but I didn't understand it at all. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiriamHC

When the direct object, here "les", is before the verb, the verb changes endings to match the gender and number of the direct object. "Rendus" has an "s" because "les" is plural and is before the verb. In the sentence "J'ai rendu les chapeaux", the direct object ("les chapeaux") is after the verb, so "rendu" does not change to match. In the sentence "Je les ai rendus", the direct object ("les") is before the verb so the verb changes to match. Even in the sentence "Les chapeaux que j'ai rendus", the direct object ("les chapeaux") is before the verb so the verb changes to match.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dwendl
  • 1927

That does indeed help. Thank you. Does this rule apply to all verbs: -er -ir -re? Reflexive? Is it just the passé tense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

The rule applies to all verbs using auxiliary "avoir" at all compound tenses (passé composé, plus que parfait, futur antérieur, passé antérieur...) indicative, subjunctive, conditional, interrogative, negative...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shihancheng

thanks that really helps. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tpamm

why not je vous les ai rendus? This answer was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

It is in the list of accepted answers, but maybe there was another error?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gersoniano

I agree with tpamm, why isn't that correct and what is the correct answer then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mere_des_chats

Uhmm...Sitesurf, who is a moderator, just said there was nothing wrong with the answer tpamm gave. She said it is indeed an accepted answer and suggested that maybe there may have been something else wrong with what tpamm wrote previously since there is nothing wrong with the proposed answer above. I am confused about your question since it follows Sitesurf's very post that was a response to tpamm on this matter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie282520

I thought she meant that maybe the error was that Duo had not added it correctly. So many ways to read comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Duo does not add anything, volunteers (Mods) do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mactuary1

"Je n'ai pas de les..." est correct? Mais pas "Je n'ai pas de...".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

je n'ai pas les chapeaux = I don't have the hats

je n'ai pas de chapeau(x) = I don't have any hat(s) / I have no hat(s)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanChavez

Why not "Je te les rendais"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

je te les rendais = I was returning them to you / I used to return them to you / I would return them to you

French imparfait = continuous action in the past, habit or repeated action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/terrainsolite

I think "...rapportés" should be accepted as well. Though not identical in meaning to "...rendus.," "bringing something back" and "returning something" are close enough to be accepted as alternatives in this type of exercise. Am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

No, you haven't missed anything, I think: "rapportés" is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/to-mor

"DAD", dative before the accusative when the persons differ was a mnemonic I learned sixty years ago to remember the word order in such constructions. Otherwise the accusative precedes the dative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianBoru4

That's very helpful, even if it does bring back horrible memories of learning Latin!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dflee53

So....is it never correct to say "a vous" or "a toi" at the end of the sentence, instead of "Je te..." or "Je vous..."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Only with the verb "être" to indicate possession:

  • ce chapeau est à moi/toi/lui/elle/nous/vous/eux/elles

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kampeao

"je n'ai pas les chapeaux. Je les ai retourné a vous" was marked wrong. is that why? Because it's only with être?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Since the verb is constructed with the preposition "à", the indirect object (vous) must be placed between the subject and the direct object (les): je vous les ai retournés.

Also, the past participle has to agree with the direct object, as it is placed before the verb: "les" is masculine plural, and so is the past participle: retournés.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kampeao

Thank you very much :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Callidryas

Please help! The correct answer was -- Je n'ai pas les chapeaux. Je vous les ai retournés. But I thought retourner used être in the passé composé?

I tried looking it up on the internet, but found it conjugated both ways. Les-verbes.com says: * Passé composé: j'ai retourné, tu as retourné, il a retourné, . . .* But another site -- leconjugueur.lefigaro.fr -- says: * Passé composé: je suis retourné, tu es retourné, il est retourné, . . . *

I'm confused. If either construction can be correct, how is it decided which one to use? Does it reflect a change in meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"Retourner" has 2 main meanings:

  • to turn something upside down/sideways: auxiliary "avoir"
  • to come/go back to a place: auxiliary "être"

To return something (to someone/to a place) = rendre, renvoyer, rapporter

To return to a place = rentrer, retourner, revenir

"I returned them to you" is best translated to "je vous/te les ai rendus/renvoyés/rapportés".

"je vous/te les ai retournés" is very rarely used to mean "I returned them to you" because the 3 other verbs are unambiguous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Callidryas

Merci beaucoup, Sitesurf -- thank you for explaining about "retourner", (and for all your thousand-and-one other explanations -- to other students -- that have helped me, as well.) Thanks for your generosity -- with your time, your expertise, and your patience!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carloscids

The negative of the second sentence would be: "Je ne te les ai pas rendus"? I have doubts about where "ne" should be..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

I'm pretty sure that's right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaKim2

Why the "ai" in the 2nd sentence? Is it bc I "have" returned them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielMcBrearty

Would "je n'ai pas les chapeaux. je les rendus a toi" be right? I meant to the put an accent on the last a.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

No, both direct object pronouns and indirect pronouns of verbs constructed with "à" are placed before the verb: je te les ai rendus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielMcBrearty

Thank you Sitesurf, you're amazing with all your answers :) I had to look up direct object pronouns, haven't used them very much so i'm a little hazy with them, but i'm %90 sure I understand what you mean, thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selina135941

isn't it supposed to be "Je n'ai pas de chapeaux. Je vous les ai rendus"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

In a negative sentence, "de" replaces the indefinite or partitive article:

  • j'ai un chapeau -- je n'ai pas de chapeau
  • j'ai des chapeaux -- je n'ai pas de chapeaux
  • j'ai du pain -- je n'ai pas de pain

But this does not apply to definite articles, because the object has to remain specific:

  • j'ai le chapeau -- je n'ai pas le chapeau
  • j'ai les chapeaux -- je n'ai pas les chapeaux

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/to-mor

I think that would translate as I do not have any hats


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jonnaan

in the frence is not the word Vous, so I cannot write this correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mere_des_chats

If you mean the word vous was not listed among the choices, it did not have to be as it is not the only way to translate this. You could use the familiar form:

Je te les ai rendus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judith57957

word choice has “te not “Vous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mere_des_chats

So use what you have. That is the idea.

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