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  5. "Kalsono estas vestaĵo."

"Kalsono estas vestaĵo."

Translation:Underwear is clothing.

September 15, 2018

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christa627

Mom: "Hey! Go put your clothing on!" Kid: "But Mom, underwear is clothing!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Yes, but MY underwear is not YOUR clothing!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oh4

Yes, but MY clothing is not YOUR underwear!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mimi658232

In PIV, we find the following definition: "Subvesto el diversaj formoj k ŝtofoj, kovranta parte aŭ tute la femurojn, aŭ la tutajn gambojn". It's exactly the meaning of "caleçon" in French.
So I think kalsono is clearly not underwear (or underclothes in British English) in general (it would be subvesto). A kalsono can't be a "bra" for instance. It's rather a pair of underpants or long johns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Myawo

I found it pretty clear after learning pantalono and pijxamo that kalsono is singular. In English underwear is plural, but in Esperanto it's singular, just like pantalono is. Sxuoj and gantoj are plurals in Esperanto because they can be spoken of separatly. I suppose if you separate your pajamas, you have pijxamo cxemizo and pijxamo pantalono.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

My underwear is still warm from the dryer. (Singular.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Myawo

Pardon, both singular and plural :J


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I could go for "singular or non-countable, collective."

The underwear in my drawer upstairs is all too small. I need to buy new underwear. When I do, it will be new.


[deactivated user]

    Is kalsono all underwears or only for men ? I mean in France, un caleçon is an underwear for men


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    I'm sure usage varies. I tend to think of it as for women - but I could also imagine using it to talk about speedos for men.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    Kalsono is definitely for men only at my location.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UnkelBig

    I have a question about kalsono vs. subvesto. What is the difference?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    A bit more nebulous than I previously suspected.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    Indeed seems to be.

    I think we can only agree that vestaĵo is any piece of clothing, cloth, garment.

    For others native languages seems to mix things. Here are some definitions I found:

    • tolaĵo is any undergarment, but for me the word is completely outdated (and only shows that Z didn't do the laundry himself)

    • PIV gives only subvesto but I prefer the form subvestaĵo and it means any underwear (gender neutral)

    • Wikipedia describes kalsono as gender neutral underpants (please, don't get stuck in English) which can either be long or short

    • kalsoneto is the short variant

    • subpantalono is the long variant


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    And so we see the inherent problem with any conlang. Certain areas will get glossed over either because the creators didn't think about them (enough) or because the creators didn't know (enough) about them to adequately cover them.
    Esperanto is flexible enough that should a large enough number of people start using a word to mean something (Say: ŝitago [Japanese] to mean boxer shorts or malalo [Hawaiian] to mean bikini shorts, for examples, not suggestions) then the Akadamio will support that and declare it part of the language.
    It does sound like an interesting "revolution" donnit?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    tolaĵo is any undergarment, but for me the word is completely outdated (and only shows that Z didn't do the laundry himself)

    What? That's not how I read that.

    As a native English speaker panties certainly are not everyday underwear.

    They're not? That's the ordinary word for woman's underwear.


    Downthread, FredCapp wrote:

    The CEED suggests kalsoneto for "women's shorts". If that is correct then kalsono would be the male version thereof. I'm going to shut up now.

    In at least one other thread I suggested that kalson(et)o was woman's underwear. I later became convinced that I was mistaken. It's nice to be reminded that I can be mistaken twice. :-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UnkelBig

    You're correct. Although how often would you say the word panties to a friend or parent? The more formal and accepted word is underwear. Then there is also the question that if kalsono means panties. Then what is the male word for kalsono?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    The CEED suggests kalsoneto for "women's shorts". If that is correct then kalsono could be the male version thereof.
    I'm going to shut up now.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    Even if the Imperial Russia was somewhat lagging behind in industrial development at the later part of the 1800 century, Warsaw was one of the centres in the empire. A man with Zamenhof's social class would certainly haven't any longer used underwear made of linen, tolo, but of more comfortable cotton, kotono. At that time import of cotton from the USA and India had pressed the price already so down that even quite a many of lower classes could afford to buy cotton underwear.

    It is quite possible that in his childhood Z had had linen underwear for a while, but in the adulthood no. Perhaps this childhood exposure caused him to choose the word tolaĵo, but it strenghtens the impression that as a white man of a doctor's social class he most definitely never washed his clothes by himself. He was married after all or had someone else doing the laundry.

    I bet that pratically nobody uses linen underwear today, few have even seen such piece of clothing. In a museum perhaps but elsewhere… no. Therefore I consider tolaĵo completedly outdated as a word for underwear.

    Please don't say you have tolan kalsonon :-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    I remind you that bath towels and bed sheets are still often called "linens" even though they have been mostly made of cotton for more than a century.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    It varies. Last time I remember having heard "linens" must have been in the previous century. If someone says so today, it really would sound malmoderna.

    My main point against tolaĵo is that it no longer serves the purpose, but needs to be separately memorised, i.e. literaly "made of linen" but meaning "underwear" since nobody wears nowadays underwear made of linen.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carmiac

    I mean, I do have tolan kalsonon, but I'm also a historical re-enactor.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oh4

    In Ireland and parts of Britain, all earthenware and crockery are called "delf", alluding to the Dutch town of Delft which was once famous for its pottery works. This is despite most coming from China, and little if any from the low countries, let alone Delft.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    To 4oh4: fascinating, but I don't quite find your point.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WallieMcKi

    Person who did the voice on this sentence, thank you for speaking so clearly. It's appreciated!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LuisS_PT

    isn't kalsono much more a «short» than pants?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesDanielChr

    It sounded like "Kacono estas picagxo," to me after playing it four times and raising the volume each time. As near as I can tell only "estas" is an actual Esperanto word.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Just keep practicing listening, I've finally got to the point that I only have to listen to that one lady three times before I get the sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    I listened a half dozen times this and I couldn't hear what you heard. Have you a possibility to record this and listen to it at a slower or faster speed, if that would help?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    Sometimes, it seems, there is more than one recording for a sentence. That's why I always appreciate comments and questions with ample detail.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesDanielChr

    I have pretty severe tinnitus from exposure to to many explosions, loud machinery, and loudly played music when I was younger. It may be that I will never hear some sounds accurately. If others aren't having a similar issue, it may just be my hearing is too compromised to catch all of the pronunciation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    With that background, I'll accept that your hearing is compromised. My suggestion is a good set of earphones, but I agree that they may not be enough. Your doctor may have other suggestions.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WallieMcKi

    I hate when the computer changes the word on you and you dont catch it fast enough.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WallieMcKi

    Underwear is both singular and plural and so is clothing. Correct? So why when I translate it to "underwear are clothing" is it wrong. You wouldn't call more than one in that sentence clothings to mean more than one piece of underwear. Doesn't underwear mean panties, bra, undershirt & underpants, etc. So why does it translate to "is" instead of "are". What makes you know that its only one and has to be "is"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    You need to remember that this is computer learning. The Owl only knows what's in its database. If the programer told it that underwear is singular, and didn't give it any possible plural sentences to accept, then all the logic in the world won't change it.
    I do hope that you reported your problem when this sentence came up and maybe the programmer will fix the issue, or not. there's a lot to do in the Duo offices.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UgoFlickerman

    Why is "panties are clothing" wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Because "panties" may not be in Duo's database. Or that Duo has another word in mind for "panties." Either way, as creative as you may be thinking, you will be marked wrong here.
    This is not the forum to request a change of that nature. The other button, next to the one that brought you here, goes directly to the webmonkey house.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    Maybe it's already obvious, but let's underscore that "Duo's Database" doesn't list individual words, but sentences and variations.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oh4

    Why not "an article of clothing?" "is" implies singular, where as "clothing" on its own implies plural. Using "are" here would still make sense in English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Yes, it would, uncountable nouns can be funny that way.

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