"-rup"

Translation:ready, prepared (beings) (type-2 verb suffix)

October 3, 2018

10 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

I see it's noted that the verb suffix -rup is for beings. Question 1: is that all animate beings, or only beings capable of language? For example, can a dog or a targ be tlhutlhrup or Suvrup?

Second, I didn't see this verb mentioned in the Tips and Notes for this lesson, possibly because (I think) we touched on it briefly in a past lesson. However, it might be worth at least a passing mention there under the entry for -beH, since it seems to be roughly the same in meaning, except that -beH is for devices and -rup is for beings.

Question 2: would something like a robot generally take the suffix -beH rather than -rup? And, I presume an android would probably be more open to personal interpretation in terms of which suffix it would take?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

So far as we know, there is no language-using requirement for -rup; it's just "beings." So yes, you would say Suvrup targh and not SuvbeH targh. A targ is not a device.

Everyone asks about robots and androids, because they're a border case. Klingons consider them a border case too, and don't agree whether they're "beings capable of using language." Each chooses their own interpretation.

If it's the sort of robot you'd find on a car assembly line, use -beH. If there's any question at all about whether the robot is a "being," pick the interpretation you think best.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

I don't understand which verb you feel should be re-explained in the Tips & Notes for this Skill.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

Since she goes on to discuss -beH, it seems she meant verb suffix when she wrote verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Could be, though I rejected that assumption because that verb suffix is indeed discussed in the Tips & Notes for that Skill.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

I meant -rup. Since I had mentioned "the verb suffix -rup" in the first paragraph, I thought it was clear that I was continuing to talk about the same word/suffix; apparently not. Nevertheless, I should have said "verb suffix" and not "verb."  My bad!

I don't think that it needs to be re-explained per se, just mentioned in conjunction with -beH as similar in meaning, sort of a reminder. These sorts of affixes with similar meanings are often mentioned in conjunction with each other in the Tips and Notes (e.g. plural markers -pu/-mey/-Du', aspect suffixes -taH/-lI'-, -pu'/-ta'), and then the differences between them pointed out.

The biggest reason I feel this is "missing" from the Tips is because there are five lessons in Level 1 of Volition, the first four of which focus almost exclusively on the four "new" verb suffixes outlined in the Tips and Notes Section:  -nIS, -qang,  -vIp, and -beH - in turn and in exactly the order they're laid out there.  Then, the fifth lesson focuses heavily on -rup, which isn't mentioned in the Tips at all.  My first instinct was to look back and see if I'd missed seeing it there.  Quite frankly, I'd forgotten we'd learned this verb suffix at all until I looked it up on the Hol website, at which point its inclusion became clear.   I don't even remember exactly where it first turned up in this course, but it did seem to me to be one of those instances of "jumping ahead" to a new element at the time. Even a quick one-sentence mention/reminder of it in conjunction with -beH would be helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

Actually, I see that there IS a blurb on -rup in there now. Did you add that recently? It wasn't there when I copied the page into my offline Notes file a few days to a week ago.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Nope. It was there. Unless one of the other guys added it. But I can't imagine we left it out. I'm absolutely certain it's been in there since the course was launched. However, I did add the bit in parentheses for some extra clarification.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

Well, that IS strange. I copy and paste the Tips and Notes to a file for offline reference and to make further notes, and that particular item - and that one alone - is completely missing from my file. I find it hard to believe that my cursor would have missed it completely, since it's right in the middle! Nevertheless, apologies if that is indeed the case, and sorry for any confusion. And thank you for adding the clarification. :)

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