https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061

“habbiamo pernotato IL volo”, “habbiamo noleggiato UN motorino”

Ciao. Ho letto molte regole del uso delli articoli italiane ma sempre incontro delle orazioni nelle quale no riesco a capire il loro uso Ad esempio:

1) Da casa habbiamo pernotato il volo e un alloggio con uso di cucina.

2) Siamo arrivati a Pantelleria in perfecto orario e habbiamo noleggiato subito un motorino per una settimana, un potentissimo Italjet Torpedo 125"

3) Qualque mese fa l'edizione inglese di una revista di moda è uscita con due copertine diverse:...

Perché “habbiamo pernotato IL volo” mentre “habbiamo noleggiato UN motorino”? Perché “l'edizione”? Si trata di uno delle molte edizione, no d’una concreta

October 3, 2018

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/CivisRomanus

“habbiamo pernotato IL volo”

Abbiamo prenotato il volo.
The use of H before the simple present of avere only concerns four persons:
io ho (1s person singular)
tu hai (2nd person singular)
lui/lei ha (3rd person singular)
noi abbiamo (1s person plural, no H)
voi avete (2nd person plural, no H)
loro hanno (3rd person plural)

"Habbiamo" was a common spelling in the 16th-17th centuries, when the modern grammar rules had not been established yet.

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Linda7Italian

Hi. I think you mean "abbiamo prenotato il volo" (we booked the flight) and "abbiamo noleggiato un motorino" (we hired/rented a moped). I will leave a better explanation to our madrelingue.

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061

What I mean is that different articles have been used in the sentences that look similar to me (booking a flight and hiring a moped)

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Joseph297228

il volo means THE flight.

un volo means A flight.

il motorino means THE scooter

un motorino means A scooter

So basically, the article says "we booked THE flight, and rented A scooter.

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Joseph297228

Just want to note that scooter and moped are interchangeable :)

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Laurin_Noby

Italian articles change in accordance to sex/gender.

I know it's strange that objects have sex but it's like this, I'm sorry.

In your sentence "Abbiamo prenotato il volo." "Il volo" is masculine. The definite articles masculine are IL, LO, LA, I, GLI, LE. The indefinite are: UN, UNO, UNA, UN'.

IL is the definite article for masculine (in english is "the"). And UN is the indefiinte article for masculine (and it's "a" in english).

Also, the "H" is used only for the first person "Io ho", the second person "tu hai" / you have/, the third singular person "lui ha/ lei ha" (he has/ she has) and for the third person plural, "loro hanno" /they have. It's very important, but don't worry, so many Italian people still write it without H but it's a big mistake!

"L'edizione": here the L' is the abbreviation of "LA". I can't say La edizione and so I say L'edizione. The word "Edizione" begins with a vocal (a,e,i,o,u) and so you have to use the abbreviation L'.

Well, I suck with explication.

Hope you have understood something eue''

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061

You've given a good answer, but not to my question :) What I would like to know is why when someone books something mentioned in the text for the first time (in this case a flight) a definite atrilce (Il) is used while when someone hires something mentioned in the text for the first time an indefinite article (un) is used. The same is with "L'edizione", why definite article?

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/bdahlia227

You are booking a SPECIFIC flight, not just any flight so it is "the" (il) flight. You are renting "A" moped, any one of many on the lot so it is a "un" motorino. For l'edizione, instead of having to vowels together, "lA Edizione", it is shortened to "l'edizione". Hope this makes sense and helps.

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/EMANUELA410769

It is right. About 'l'edizione', they do not use 'un'edizione' because it is 'l'edizione inglese' (= a specific edition)

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061

Still I don't quite understand what makes something spesic. For example "Ho prenotato una stanza nel albergo Russia. The logic is that there are several rooms in the hotel and I booked one of them (similar to the example with a motor-bike). Suppose there are 5 flights a day from one sity to another and I've booked one of them. Of course, each of these flights is "specific" becasue each of them departs at a different time, but if I just wanted to tell someone that I've booked a flight to Moscow (onr of thosse five) would it still be Ho prenotato il volo per Moscu? Again, what makes that magazine issue specific?

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Laurin_Noby

Maybe the definition of it can help you:

"Gli articoli determinativi si usano in riferimento a una categoria generale di persone, animali, oggetti, concetti"

( http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/articoli-determinativi_%28La-grammatica-italiana%29/ )

You can also rea here for other definition:

http://parliamoitaliano.altervista.org/larticolo/

October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/EMANUELA410769

Yes, 'IL volo' is specific because it is just the flight you have booked and you are talking about. 'L'edizione inglese' is specific because it is 'inglese', not 'italiana' or 'francese

October 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/CivisRomanus

Perché “habbiamo pernotato IL volo” mentre “habbiamo noleggiato UN motorino”?

Because who is speaking this sentence is referring to a trip that is already a topic of conversation (→ "the trip", therefore "the flight", i.e. our flight, the flight that we'll be taking).
It would be equally correct to say UN volo (a flight that was available).
Instead speaking of UN motorino, it is likely that hiring a moped has not been previously mentioned in the conversation; by saying IL motorino the listener would not understand which moped is being spoken of.

Perché “l'edizione”? Si trata di uno delle molte edizione, no d’una concreta

L'edizione inglese di una rivista di moda refers to a specific edition, i.e. the English one. So the definite article is required.

October 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061
  • nell'albergo ))
October 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri352061

Thank you for your patience )) but the fact is that 'volo' has not been mentioned before. That's how the story begins: Voglio raccontare il viaggio di una settimana a Pantelleria che ho organizzato completamente online all'insegna del risparmiamo. Da casa habbiamo pernotato il volo e un alloggio con uso di cucina.

How would you say "On my way home a bought an issue of an Englsih fashion magazine" in Italian. Would you also use a definite article?

October 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Taddea2

It simply depends on what you want to say. In this instance Duolingo or the author of the sentence (if it's not from Duolingo) wanted to say "THE flight" so they said "THE flight" not "A flight".

I think you may be asking a question that there is not a duolingo explanation for.

Duolingo simply switches between THE or A/AN so make sure you are learning both the definite and indefinite articles. Your job is to simply know that when they use a definite article "il" it means "the" and when they use an indefinite article "un" it means mean "a".

October 5, 2018
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