"Greetings, Keoki."

Translation:Aloha e Keoki.

October 10, 2018

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Tom64tom

Can someone explain the purpose of the E? The sentence appears to be accepted without it!

December 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

The vocative needs the kahakō: ē, not e.

ē 1. Vocative part.; a second ē often follows the head word for emphasis. Ē Pua; ē Pua ē, O Pua. Ē ke aliʻi o Maui, O chief of Maui. Ē is shortened to e before third-person pronouns: see e ia nei, e lākou ala. (PPN (ʻe)e).

http://wehewehe.org/gsdl2.85/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q-11000-00---off-0hdict--00-1----0-10-0---0---0direct-10-ED--4-------0-1lpm--11-haw-Zz-1---Zz-1-home-ē--00-3-1-00-0--4----0-0-11-00-0utfZz-8-00&a=d&d=D1763

October 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MitchTalmadge

Every tutorial I've followed, like the book "Learn Hawaiian at Home," have used E not Ē. Also this definition says Ē is only used at the end of a sentence to mean "yeah? Right? Isn't that so?" http://wehewehe.org/gsdl2.85/cgi-bin/hdict?e=q-11000-00---off-0hdict--00-1----0-10-0---0---0direct-10-ED--4-------0-1lpm--11-haw-Zz-1---Zz-1-home-E--00-3-1-00-0--4----0-0-11-00-2utfZz-8-00&a=d&d=D33971

So I'm not sure which is right.

October 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

Aloha ē Mitch!

Mahalo for your comment. You say, "So I'm not sure which is right." Actually, they're both right!

The link you included in your post is from the book “Mamaka Kaiao: A Modern Hawaiian Vocabulary” from a group called Kōmike Huaʻōlelo, which “was established in 1987 to create words for concepts and material culture unknown in traditional Hawai’i”. The definition you link to supplements the traditional definition with a new usage, but does not contradict or replace the traditional meaning. The link in my post above is to the full, canonical book, simply called the "Hawaiian Dictionary", which is from the University of Hawaiʻi and has been the ultimate authority for many decades. It’s what we mean when we say “the dictionary”. Note that both books are searchable at wehewehe.org, along with "Place Names of Hawaiʻi" and other sources, such as early dictionaries. “Māmaka Kaiao” is indispensable as a supplement, but inadequate or even misleading by itself, since it only has newer words and usages.

Again, here is the definition that I linked to before (definition 1, “vocative part.” is what we are talking about):

ē

  1. Vocative part.; a second ē often follows the head word for emphasis. Ē Pua; ē Pua ē, O Pua. Ē ke aliʻi o Maui, O chief of Maui. Ē is shortened to e before third-person pronouns: see e ia nei, e lākou ala. (PPN (ʻe)e).

  2. Intensifying part., as in the common exclamation Auē nohoʻi ē! (Gram. 7.5.)

  3. interj. Alas!

Mahalo

October 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kelii....

Well, while I agree with you in terms of what is in the dictionary, it is not pronounced as ē before names. I have only ever learned it as /e/ with a pronunciation of /e/ not /ē/, even by native speakers that I have spoken to. To me, the examples in definition 1 up there would be more for mele or oli or similar contexts like Auē nō ho‘i ē! Where the pronunciation is a discernibly longer sound. ‘O ia ko‘u wahi mana‘o.

November 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

Aloha, you bring up an interesting point. Some thoughts:

  1. Everyday pronunciation is often looser than formal pronunciation. But think of an English parallel: In Duolingo's English course, I'm pretty sure they would stick with "What do you want to do", and not write it as "Whadaya wanna do", as many Americans would pronounce it. This is a course for beginners, and they need to start with dictionary spelling, and not worry about casual exceptions.
  2. The difference in sound between /ē/ and /e/ is nowhere near as great as the difference between /ā/ and /a/, so is more likely to be less noticeable in everyday speech. And pronunciation will vary between districts and islands, too.
  3. Spoken Hawaiian has a ton of context to help make meaning clear: time, place, circumstance, facial expression, tone, pitch, volume and rhythm of vocal expression, etc. Readers of written Hawaiian need all the help they can get from diacritics to figure out what is meant.
  4. If you think the dictionary should be changed, get in touch with the editors; why not. But as I said in number 3, I think the diacritics are really useful.
  5. The dictionary is Aunty Kawena’s life’s work, and I’m immensely grateful for it, and will continue to honor it.

Mahalo ā nui loa

November 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kelii....

Mahalo i kou manao. I disagree. I can hear the difference between /e/ and /ē/. It is discernable to me. Please keep in mind the olelo noeau, aole i pau ka ike i ka halau hookahi. The dictionary, while extensive, is not 100% comprehensive. Also keep in mind that there was no standardization prior to missionaries, and there were variations. By your #1 you seem to imply that the /e/ not /ē/ is akin to aale compared to aole. Do you have examples to point that out? You are the only one ever that i have run into that insists that it should be ē not e. You based that solely on a dictionary entry and not what you actually heard... i kou wahi manao. I say that because again I have never heard ē in my conversations with manaleo, whereas i have heard both aole and aale. Sorry but I still disagree. (Hey) Kaleo should be e Kaleo, instead of ē Kaleo.

November 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

Aloha Lee, there seems to be no reply button on your post, so I hope this will do. I know we could go around about this forever, and I don't think some of the points I tried to make before clicked with you, so I'll make this brief. I do hear /ē/, being used but since I mostly hear ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi from musicians, hālau folks and kumu ʻōlelo, that may make a difference even when speaking rather than singing or chanting. And I still think that in writing, the /ē/ is a very useful distinction. It also looks like you don't believe in using diacritics at all, so we have a fundamental disagreement there. Anyway, I don't think I have much more to add to the discussion, so I'll sign off. Mālama pono!

November 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kelii....

Quite to the contrary, I am a proponent of diacritics, and I am also a graduated educator of the language. Yes, as I stated, what you often hear in mele and oli is /ē/ and it should be written as ē. When you are engaged in conversation, one does not say ē Keoki or ē Keola, though. It is a different use. It is e Keola... or e Keoki.... Mahalo i kou mana'o.

November 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/TNLion

Thank you guys for talking in comments, seeing actual speakers of the language helps.

December 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kailikapu

The Word Bank didn't include a glottal-stop ('okina) in front of the letter e for 'e.

October 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

Right, ʻe with an ʻokina is not a word. ʻĒ, with both ʻokina and kahakō, means strange, unusual, odd.

October 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kailikapu

E kala mai. Indeed I have erred in my mistaken belief that there is supposed to be an 'okina in front of " 'e "! I actually realized that after posting my comment late at night the other evening and didn't know how to get back to this discussion thread to remove my comment. Mahalo nui for replying and providing me the opportunity to acknowledge and correct my mistake, so that I and others will better know how to pronounce Hawaiian words (not how to spell them).

October 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pilimau

Mahalō iāʻoe!

October 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NuageLabor1

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March 4, 2019

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