https://www.duolingo.com/kimmksk

How can I make difference between /c-/ and /q-/?

Seriously I cannot able to differentiate those two series: 'c-' and 'q-'. For example, 此 and 起. In fact, they can be because the vowel is not identical while the Pingyin is same. So I have a question: Is those consonants can be recognized by the vowels following?

October 27, 2018

11 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/garpike

Your tongue should be touching the inner margin of your upper front teeth when making 'c', and the inner margin of your lower front teeth when making 'q'. The point of articulation for 'c' is further forward.

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FilipFilip17

Mmm.... That's not exactly it.

The tip of your tongue should be touching the inner margin of your (upper front) teeth, or put more simply, the little bump on the soft front part of your palate when making a “c”, and the middle part of your tongue should be touching your hard palate when making a “q”. The tip of your tongue should be touching your hard palate when making a “ch”.

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike

the middle part of your tongue should be touching your hard palate when making a “q”.

You are entirely correct, but this is less simple to explain clearly as not everyone is terribly familiar with the anatomy of the mouth. You don't have to touch the lower teeth to make a /tɕ/ sound (the tip of the tongue isn't involved in producing the sound, anyway), but it seemed an easy way of explaining it by contrast with /ts/, as you cannot possibly avoid making an alveolo-palatal articulation with the middle of the tongue in this position.

October 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/-NOPE-

alright, make "ssss" sound. And then keep your lips teeth and every thing in your mouth the same except you don't blow wind out. Now blow hard like "ch" sound but the same lips, tongue and teeth position. There you go. That's "c" And "q" is even easier. Make "ch" sound but lips, tongue and teeth position are the same as "eeee"

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/DragonPolyglot

In the Standard Chinese pronunciation, c is the aspirated version of z (pronounced like the “ts” in “cats”) and q is the aspirated version of j (pronounced like English “t” and “sh” together but with the flat part of your tongue pressed against the ridge behind your upper teeth). The “soft sh” seems to change the vowel quality slightly but the pronunciation is all in the consonants.

See:

Wikipedia (uses IPA, pages for IPA symbols have audio): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology#Consonants

Video introducing x, q, j pronunciation (fast forward to 5:04 to hear the vowel differences in ci, chi and qi): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUlnp0wm5dk

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/duanxiu

Actually there's a worse problem: the difference between lü and lu. Maybe the English transliteration is quite intuitive but I think that in general it is as bad as the French one was (ex. Nanking instead of Nanqing). I made up my own.

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike

'King' for '京' was a perfectly good approximation for the local pronunciation in the Southern Chinese ports in the 18th century, when rendering of Chinese place names in the Roman alphabet first started becoming widespread (in Middle Chinese the initial would have a hard /k/, some of which eventually turned into /tɕ/ in Mandarin). French 'Nankin' is more an historical spelling than an attempt to approximate contemporary pronunciation.

The pronunciation of 'ü' and 'u' is essentially the same as it is in German.

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/duanxiu

Thanks but you didn't understand: my problem was how to guess if ex. 录 should be spelled as lu or lü, but secondly if french spelling of lu and lou would be more appropriate. German ü is more like i. So how to spell Lu Xun? French: Lou Hsun or Lu Hsoun?

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike

my problem was how to guess if ex. 录 should be spelled as lu or lü

I don't know how anyone could guess without knowing how it is pronounced. Compare it with, e.g., '率', and the distinction is pretty clear ( and on forvo). I'm still not quite sure I understand your problem.

So how to spell Lu Xun? French: Lou Hsun or Lu Hsoun?

I think EFEO romanisation would render this as 'Lou Hsun', and a character like '率' (as pinyin 'lü4) as 'lu'. This seems sensible to me, as a French speaker is likely to see 'lu' and pronounce it /ly/, whereas an English speaker of most standard accents would more likely naturally say /lu/.

October 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Jli-wu

chi- kind of like ch-er (吃) ci- ts,a bit similar to a hissing sound (次), think of the end of a plural word like bats or cuts qi- pronounced chee (起) essentially, q(vowel) will provide a thinner sound, if that makes sense.

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/duanxiu

If you know Polish: q is ć, c is c. 此 - cy, 起- ći.

October 29, 2018
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