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  5. InIgho' mantoya' 'oH pongwIj'…

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillJLipsky

InIgho' mantoya' 'oH pongwIj'e'. vavwI' DaHoH. yIHegh'eghrupmoH.

Correct? Incorrect? The "Cause" lesson doesn't really go into using the -moH suffix with an imperative prefix to tell a person/people to cause themselves to be something.

November 9, 2018

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Fairly good. yIHegh'eghrupmoH is an odd word, I think as much because of the -'egh as because of the -moH. Why not just yIHeghrup?

November 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillJLipsky

Perhaps I overthought it. I have seen -moH and -'egh used in conjunction with an imperative prefix to command a direct object to be or not be an adjective (ie. yI'IQ'eghmoHQo'! --> Don't be sad), but I forgot that Hegh actually means "to die" as opposed to "dead", correct?

November 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

I suspected that was what was going on, but I didn't want to assume. You are right that Hegh means to take the action of dying, not to be described by the quality of being dead. The yI-/-eghmoH definitely reads much differently on a verb of action than on a verb of quality.

November 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillJLipsky

Basically, how I read my first attempt is, "cause preparation for yourself to die".

November 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

But, the original quote is simply "prepare to die." Nothing fancy like "prepare for the cause of yourself to die." Plus, the yI prefix makes it an imperative, so I would think yIHeghrup pretty much covers it.

I also agree with David about the inclusion of an aspect particle on DaHoH (I personally like DaHoHta', but I'll defer to him, as he's got far more Klingon experience than I do). Otherwise, it could sound as if it hasn't happened yet, or is even in the future tense - and we all know that's not the case!

I was very excited to see your attempt to translate one of my favorite movie quotes of all time, though. Have a lingot on me just for that. :-)

November 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Adding perfective doesn't force it to be interpreted in the past tense. It could still mean "You will have killed my father." What the perfective does is to signal that the action is completed, and not unfinished.

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

I understand that. But since Klingon lacks a simple past tense marker, and since there's no specific time word/reference in the original sentence, my choice would be for '-ta' to designate a completed action. It also helps retain the original quote's simplicity and brevity - one of my favorite things about that line.

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Whatever his accent made his words sound like, he could only have meant killed. Since Klingon is not just encoded English, you wouldn't translate a misspoken word according to what you heard.

Let's take an extreme example. Certain accents in English make the word can sound like kin, as in I kin go tomorrow. You wouldn't translate that as wa'leS jIjaHtuqnIgh. You'd translate it as wa'leS jIjaHlaH.

There's another example of a dramatic perfective in the canon. In Star Trek VI, General Chang has just heard that Kirk and McCoy have escaped the prison on Rura Penthe. He repeats the word very slowly: nargh...ta'. It's the simplicity of the word that makes the drama, as well as being able to stretch out the single word with the extra syllable. It wouldn't have been nearly so dramatic if he had just said, nargh.

Sometimes someone who knows what they're doing to drop or alter vital grammar for poetic purposes, but that's not the case here.

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

That bit about "you kill my father" was meant to be a joke; I wasn't seriously implying that DaHoH would actually be a better translation. I thought the wink emoticon would get that across, but apparently, it failed. Sorry about that. :-)

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

There's no time reference because it's implicit in the context. You wouldn't be threatening someone with death because they will have killed your father sometime in the future.

If you just say DaHoH, it would be like saying you kill my father. There is no sense of the act being completed; you're describing it in progress, even if you're describing it in progress in the past.

I like rIntaH because it signals the absolute finality of the death, which is very important to Inigo. I could see using only -ta' to understate it, though.

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

Actually, due to Inigo Montoya's thick Spanish accent, it sometimes DID sound as though he was saying "You kill my father." So, perhaps DaHoH is just fine after all, if it conveys that. ;-)

As I said, you are far more advanced in Klingon than I am, David, so I will of course defer final judgement to you. I just liked the idea of trying to keep the sentence as short and simple as possible - as you say, understated. That was part of the charm of the original quote. Then again, one additional syllable probably wouldn't ruin that. :-)

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Should be DaHoHpu' or DaHoHta' or especially DaHoH rIntaH. You did it and it's done. Perfective.

November 9, 2018
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