"Temanku disuntik oleh perawat itu."

Translation:My friend was injected by that nurse.

November 12, 2018

5 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/tsuj1g1r1

When we say that “itu” can be translated to “the”, do we mean in general, or does it only apply in certain contexts? Can “perawat itu” = “the nurse”?

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/joeldipops

If you think about it, "the" kinda means something very similar to "that" in English. The difference is when we use "That" we're being very specific and putting emphasis on whatever "that" is. Indonesian doesn't have a "the", but there are still times when it needs to point to a specific thing but without putting strong emphasis on it. So in those cases, it might be more natural to translate "itu" as "the" rather than "that". If it's not clear from context (as in single duolingo sentence) I tend to find "the" makes for a more natural sounding sentence.

tldr: Yes, "perawat itu" can mean "the nurse" in this sentence.

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tsuj1g1r1

I thought so too, but it wasn't accepted, so I thought I'd make sure. Although I'm also wondering more about the Indonesian than the English side of things: is “itu” used more often than English “that”? If I'm not pointing out a specific nurse in the Indonesian sentence, which would be preferable, “oleh perawat” or “oleh perawat itu”? Are there certain constructions where it's preferable to use the “itu” and others where it's preferable not to, you know? O.o

November 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

The difference is when we use "That" we're being very specific and putting emphasis on whatever "that" is. Indonesian doesn't have a "the",

@ joeldipops: that's correct, this is exactly the core of the "problem".
"itu", as used in this sentence is a determiner, it's referring to something/someone specific.

When the word "itu" is used like that in an Indonesian sentence, it should actually be translated into English as "that", because the Indonesian sentence is referring to something/someone very specific.
Translating it with "the", could give the sentence a different meaning.

Contoh:
(1) "Temanku disuntik oleh perawat"
(2) "My friend was given a shot by the/a nurse".

(3) "Temanku disuntik oleh perawat itu"
(4) "My friend was given a shot by that nurse".

Sentence (1) is not talking about a specific nurse.
Sentence (3) is talking about a specific nurse.

The problem and confusion occurs when translating the English sentence (2) into Indonesian.
Contoh:
(2) "My friend was given a shot by the nurse."
(3) "Temanku disuntik oleh perawat itu."

The same English sentence, in a different context :
(2) "My friend was given a shot by the nurse (not by the doctor)."
(1) "Temanku disuntik oleh perawat (bukan oleh dokter)."

The English sentence (2) doesn't refer to a specific nurse, just a nurse, not a specific one, but the English sentence needs an article to be gramatically correct.
An English sentence like this is often translated into Indonesian sentence (3) (using "itu") and seldom translated into sentence (1).
However, the Indonesian sentences (3) and (1) do not have the same meaning.

Almost all the books use "itu" (or 'tersebut') to translate the article as well.
Why ?
I don't know, maybe because they want to translate the article as well.

But in reality, it's redundant in the Indonesian sentence.
It even gives the sentence a different meaning.
I think it's because of this that people want to translate 'itu' with 'the' and I think this is main source of confusion.

According to me, it can only work from EN into ID when you really want to translate the article into Indonesian as well, although it's often not necessary.
It doesn't work well the other way around, from ID into EN.

tldr: Yes, "perawat itu" can mean "the nurse" in this sentence.

That's why "perawat itu" is not necessarily the same as "the nurse".
It depends on the sentence and the context and which way the translation goes (EN--> ID or ID--> EN).

November 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/joeldipops

Thanks for the correction. I'll have to think much more carefully about whether a "the" should be an "itu" or not from now on.

November 13, 2018
Learn Indonesian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.