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"Chiediamo che si metta fine a tutto questo."

Translation:We ask that an end be put to all this.

April 3, 2013

94 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maloewe

We aks that an end be put to meaningless sentences ..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolarBear667564

"We ask that be an end to all this" is an equally technically-correct but meaningless translation as DLs (LOL)!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris123456

Could this also be interpreted as We ask that HE / SHE put an end to all this. Or would one have to specify using lui / lei??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2658

In this case the subordinate sentence is impersonal because of "si"; to make it personal you can change it to lui/lei or simply remove it. Note that if the object had been something to wear the "si" would have been intended as reflexive: "Digli che si metta una cravatta" (Tell him to wear a tie).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris123456

Thank you, once again, for another very much appreciated and helpful explanation. You are one of Duolingo's star players!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2658

Thanks, but truth be told I'm just lazy; I'm browsing posts instead of taking my planned lessons like a kid avoiding homework :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

Too modest, i agree with chris


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariaelena256

Thanks fformica as always


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/K2mission

Grazie mille Ferdinando! Questo fa perfettamente senso a me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JOrlando3

That would change the voice from passive to active in English, but I'm not sure how that works in Italian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caterinabella

DL wanted "mettano" (they) for this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/muzza11

we ask that one puts an end to all this ? Would that work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

I feel like the nature of the sentence means that the impersonal "one" doesn't work well here in English. To me at least it doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to capture that sense, I would go with something like, "We ask that they put an end..." or even "We ask that someone put an end..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Justinnnnnnnnn

Si is singular though, no? And "one" should be able to substitute for "someone." I agree that it sounds antiquated, but certainly not incorrect. Wouldn't "We ask that one put an end to all this" be the most literal (if not necessarily best) translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

The "si" makes it an impersonal verb, meaning that the person or thing doing the action is not specified. When we use "one" in English, we usually imply the speaker in the generalized "one." Sometimes this works as a translation of the impersonal/passive structure in Italian, sometimes it doesn't. For example:

Si lavano i piatti dopo il pranzo. One washes the dishes after lunch. / They wash the dishes after lunch. / The dishes are washed after lunch.

If I'm in a restaurant and talking about the general procedures, I'm not going to use "one," because it's someone else doing it (but I could say, "Someone washes the dishes."). If I'm just talking in general about cleanliness, I can certainly use "one." This is why, to me, "one" doesn't sound right in the above sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Justinnnnnnnnn

Thank you for the response. Just to clarify, "si" in no way implies singular or plural? It only means the verb is impersonal?

It would be great if Duolingo could express this and give a short explanation on word hovering, rather than simply giving word suggestions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

Right, here the "si" just means that the verb is impersonal. In other contexts (like with reflexive verbs), it can mean different things. I found this link on the impersonal "si" that might be helpful":

http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/si-impersonale-part-1/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolarBear667564

But you're making assumptions that aren't necessarily warranted here. 'Si metta' is the Italian impersonal tense, and 'one puts' is the closest equivalent English tense, so this IS the closest grammatically correct literal translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sentinel83

Could the si in this sentence be treated as 'one'. So the sentence could be - "We ask that one puts an end to all of this"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arrotino

That's how I'd read that, but we're in the minority and wrong according to Duolingo. I must admit their sentence sounds better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valerieheath

I tried that and it didn't work. I really couldn't think how to translate the "si" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kauheeta

This kind of language you hear daily in the neighbourhoods of London ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

It uses the subjunctive mood and it is gramatically correct English, althought it is not usual in spoken English indeed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte920554

Hi - I'm a native English speaker, so I probably should know the question I am about to ask :/ - Is it correct to say ' we ask that an end IS put to all of this' ...instead of BE..DUO doesn't think so...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/apGeraint

BE is correct. It's the subjunctive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sheev.Palpatine

Well, it sounds weird AF and I never heard anyone speak like this. I stared at words offered for like a minute, knowing exactly what italian sentence means, but having no idea how to combine those words into any proper english sentence. Then I gave up and typed "We ask if that would be possible to put an end to all this", but of course it wasn't accepted. I don't care what do the old books say, if nobody ever says "we ask that ... be" in everyday speech, then it shouldn't be used there. It's weird and creepy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte920554

Ignore - I have just gotten to the bottom of the comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BilingualAndytoo

Hi, I'm a native English speaker too and I agree with you completely. "Is" definitely works better than "be" in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TDannyXD

Could the Italian sentence be: "Chiediamo che una fine sia messa a tutto questo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

It is gramatically correct, but it is not usual.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DidiMissTake

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHAT DOES IT MEAN? ENGLISH IS MY SECOND LANGUAGE. THIS SENTENCE IS SO STRANGE.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

There's no need TO SHOUT.

Putting an end to something means stopping it permanently and completely. The battle of Stalingrad put an end to Hitler's dream of conquering Russia. As a teacher I want to put an end to the cheating in my classes. As a citizen I want to put an end to the corruption in my government.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oceanotti

Question for English experts:

I am learning English at the same time as I do other languages. A lot of times my translations from Italian to English are rejected and this provides an excellent opportunity to improve my knowledge. This time I stumbled upon this:

We ask that all this be ended

Can anyone please tell me if this sentence is grammatical?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul_Clayton

Hi! Technically there is nothing with wrong with that sentence, but it would be rather odd to word it that way in everyday speech.

Much more common (at least in the UK) would be:

We ask that someone put an end to all this.

Or

Can someone put an end to all this?

Hope that helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oceanotti

It helps a lot. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soiregroj

Much easier to translate this into Spanish: "Pedimos que se ponga fin a todo esto.", than into English. I would suggest: "We ask that all of this be terminated"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolarBear667564

Regardless of whether a literal, or a translation that 'captures the spirit of the intent' is sought here, there are much better ways to translate thìs into English that DL's model answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/divaluisa

How would one ask this question in a formal Lei version?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valerieheath

I tried "you" and it was not accepted. I have not memorized this one and get it wrong regularly... bah!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/melissawinter

I also put "you" and missed this one. Oh well...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talkers

You are correct to use "you" because "you" may ALSO be impersonal. DL needs to accept "you" in this case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianPhilipBlack

Dl has come up with this pearler: We ask that they put an stop to all of this.

An stop? do us a favour


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bev78710

I put ' We are asking that an end is put to all this' & was marked wrong. It has the same meaning - Chiediamo - we ask/we are asking and si metta can surely mean 'is put' as well as ' be put'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilPage3

'We ask that one puts an end to all this.' What is wrong with this intepretation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wenhama

What's wrong with 'is put'??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeniwaMonique

Somebody native in English could explain this En. sentence is it even acceptable or correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

The sentence is absolutely correct, but uses much more formal grammar than most casual speakers typically use. You'll find sentences like that in books, especially older books, but you won't hear it in common speech.

The verb "ask" takes the subjunctive mood, and the correct present tense subjunctive of "to be" is "be". We ask that he BE given a second chance, that an end BE put to all this, etc. However, a number of similar verbs, like "hope" or "wish", behave differently, and I'd say "I wish that an end WERE put to it", or "I hope than an end IS put to it".

Because of these complications, many native English speakers avoid the subjunctive altogether, especially in casual speech. Either they (incorrectly!) substitute the indicative mood for the subjunctive, or they rearrange the sentence to avoid having to use the subjunctive at all. So you'll (almost) never hear anybody say "we ask that an end BE put to all this" on the street. Instead, you might hear something like "we ask that somebody put an end to all this." That still technically uses the subjunctive, but the subjunctive of "put" is the same as the usual present tense, so it doesn't sound nearly as formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Charmed_

I translated it as "We ask that all this IS put to an end" and was marked wrong... In Italian, you can hear "chiediamo che si metta fine" or "che venga messa una fine", it's formal either way and I thought it was the same in English. I don't fully see the difference in English yet. (I'm Italian native and I use this course to improve my English knowledge)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PHN04

Sadly indeed very few people use the subjunctive in English. Indeed, elsewhere in DL I have avoided using it, suspecting that DL would be so far "dumbed down" that it would be marked wrong. Now I get a wrong mark for not using it. Odd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evi338183

Short: We want him/her/them to stop. Ready!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dahai69790

"We ask them to put an end to all this."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

That translation is wrong. The Italian sentence is impersonal and the translation should be too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dahai69790

"We asked to put an end to all this."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OscarVazqu678746

Who makes this ridiculous phrases?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

It is gramatically correct English, although it is not usually said in that way indeed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartineMussies

"We ask that you put an end to all this...."....? :-\


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stella370709

Is that English? I'm not a native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

As explained in previous comments, it uses the subjunctive mood and it is grammatically correct English, but many English speakers avoid that mood in informal speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mongraul

I answered ...We ask that all put an end to this and i was marked wrong, can someone tell me why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

"all" should be in the direct object, not in the subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RIK-6075

Wow it's improper English sentence structure. Who would have ever thought this could be possible. It sounds so unnatural. It can be said like this "We ask that all this be put to an end."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

Your translation is correct and means the same as the main translation.

The word order of the main translation is grammatically correct, although it is possibly unusual (as the use of the subjunctive mood).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeraRanki

I hope the Italian equivalent is actually used and understood. In English it’s just an unnecessarily convoluted sentence. Pretentious and uncomfortable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark786055

Man that's a bad english translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alison177611

I knew what this meant but couldn't make a decent English sentence from the words given! Duolingo answers often seem like a bad translation by a non-native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patty13647

This sentence has great meaning in Post-election USA in 2020. Maybe to all OF this would sound a little better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bleepybloop7105

I mean come on, the word order in this is confusing af


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nigel997196

what a clunky, useless sentence almost impossible to translate from the words given


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joan555082

I don't understand why the singular metta has to be translated as "they."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

"metta" is translated as "put". There is no "they" in the translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mopsustherobin

It may not be strictly grammatical, but it would certainly be natural English nowadays to say "we ask that an end IS put to all this".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joan555082

No good English speaker would say that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john585666

Joan, I believe you, but could you explain in a bit more detail why it is wrong? I never felt that the subjunctive is very important in BE.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

The subjunctive isn't very important in American English, either, but that's largely because you can usually avoid the issue by using an infinitive. "I ask that you be patient" is correct but a little stilted. "I'm asking you to be patient" is more commonplace. "I ask (or I'm asking) that you are patient" is wrong.

Sometimes so many people use the indicative instead of the subjunctive that it becomes accepted. Many people say "if I was" instead of "if I were", and most people consider that OK. Likewise, many people would probably accept "we hope than an end is put to all this."

But "we ask that an end is put to all this" is going too far. For reasons that I really don't understand, "ask" seems to insist on the subjunctive a lot more emphatically than "hope" does!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joan555082

Compare to "I ask that you be patient." It would not be correct to say, "I ask that you are patient." Sometimes the subjunctive is necessary to convey the intended meaning as well as to be grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelGit4

si metta should read si mettono if it is supposed to be a plural - again the translation shown here is different from that shown on the screen - it's become a habit


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

"si metta" refers to the singular noun "fine" (end) and it is conjugated correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lschwaegle

Why is the translation that is given as the answer different than the one posted here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evi338183

Horrible and senseless sentence!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jason.wu.1

Isn't this too complicated


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BorisPetro17

This is such a non-sense sentence.. No one would ever say it like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tinyset

What kind of sentence is this? It makes so sense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaLak1

OMG, really wtf is this English solution. If I had 9 lives I wouldn't have a chance get it correct, because it's just so stupid


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lars657985

What am I trying to learn - Italian or English???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamalSreiss

I'm not an English native but the EN sentence sounds just horribly wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

It uses the subjunctive mood, which is gramatically correct, despite not being usual in spoken English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianPritzwald

If someone actually said this I'd assume they are having a stroke!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/toothgritter

what an appalling english construction ......!!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oguzhan205500

Are you kidding???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyrant148592

We ask that all this is to be put to an end


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

That is wrong English.

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