"Pemberitahuan ini sudah kami kirim minggu lalu."

Translation:This notice had been sent by us last week.

November 26, 2018

5 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/tsuj1g1r1

The word order in this sentence is confusing me. Can “kirim” be used for “dikirim” in Colloquial speech if we put the agent between the subject and the verb instead of after the verb? Or is it that we can put the object of a transitive verb at the beginning to emphasize it? And why is sudah where it is? And why is this translated to the past perfect and not the present perfect? Would a better translation be “This notice had been sent by us by last week.”?

November 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Rick392366

The word order in this sentence is confusing me.
Can “kirim” be used for “dikirim” in Colloquial speech if we put the agent between the subject and the verb instead of after the verb?
Or is it that we can put the object of a transitive verb at the beginning to emphasize it?
And why is sudah where it is?

Indonesian has two types of passive constructions.
This is a type two passive sentence.
It works like this :

a1) Kami sudah mengirim pemberitahuan ini minggu lalu.
p1) Pemberitahuan ini sudah dikirim oleh kami minggu lalu.
p2) Pemberitahuan ini sudah kami kirim minggu lalu.

a1) active sentence.
==> 'Kami' = Subject = the agent/actor.
==> 'sudah mengirim' = Predicate = Verbal phrase [FV].
==> 'pemberitahuan ini' = Object = Noun phrase [FN].
==> 'minggu lalu' = Keterangan = [Ket] = temporal marker

p1) passive sentence type one:
==> Object of active sentence becomes subject of passive sentence.
==> 'me-' verb is transformed into 'di-' verb.

p2) passive sentence type two.
==> Object of active sentence becomes subject of passive sentence.
==> the agent/actor is a pronoun (or pronoun substitute, like a name).
==> 'me-'prefix is dropped.
==> nothing comes between the agent/actor and the verb.
==> that's why 'sudah' comes before the agent/actor.

It's a quiet common sentence structure, especially in colloquial style.

And why is this translated to the past perfect and not the present perfect?
Would a better translation be “This notice had been sent by us by last week.”?

The current translation uses the same verb conjugation (had been sent) as your suggestion.
The only difference I see is 'by last week' instead of 'last week'.
Why would that be better ?
What is the difference in meaning between those two ?

Current translation:

"Pemberitahuan ini sudah kami kirim minggu lalu."
Translation:This notice had been sent by us last week.

November 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tsuj1g1r1

Thank you very much for the explanation in the first part. I'm asking why the current translation uses "had", which means that something happened BEFORE a certain time, so then I asked whether the sentence indicated that this had already happened, that the notice was already sent, when last week had come. Why not simply "was sent"?

November 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/sapere__aude

You're not understanding, his suggestion is ALSO not to use the present perfect, in other words:

"The letter has been sent by us last week"

Valid English and should be accepted (and never before in this course have I seen the past perfect enforced by the word sudah.)

[Sorry if I sound a little terse, this was just an EXTREMELY frustrating sentence to translate to English - on a whole other level - but I really appreciate the responsiveness and in-depth explanations, so thanks.]

[BUT, rather than an explanation, I prefer the chance to figure out things by active practice. Any chance of a lesson on the type-2 passive form? :-)]

February 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/sapere__aude

I'm upvoting you, because... actually everything in Rick's explanation you'd already figured out ;)

February 22, 2019
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