https://www.duolingo.com/Mathias1005

Endings

Hi,

I am struggling to learn all the different endings on all the words in all the cases. I just read "Family 1" tips and there were so many endings and I doubt I will ever learn it? Can someone please tell me, that it will come at one point, haha.

Anyone else having trouble with learning all the different endings to all the different cases?

1 month ago

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/dianne227099
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Oh most definitely! I was shocked when I saw all the different endings. Made me wonder how anyone ever even speaks the language!! But it just takes time and lots of practice. Lots and lots of practice-at least for me anyway.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mathias1005

Do you have any tips and tricks on how to learn them in the best possible way? Do i have to practice one module until gold or just go ahead and finish them all and afterwards get them all to gold?

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BoneheadBass
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I've been at this for more than a year, and the endings are still hit-and-miss for me, though some seem to "stick" better than others. I suspect that's because I've done a LOT more practice sessions for the earlier skills than for the ones I've been working on more recently. Unless you have an incredible memory, it's going to take time, patience, and a lot of practice to nail them. :-(

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mathias1005

I guess ;/. Just difficult to ever remember when there are diffirent endings on each word almost..

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nueby
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I am pasting those Tips below so we can refer to what brought you here. Just keep in mind two thirds of the endings shown here are old material. The user is supposed to have learnt the nominative and accusative endings before ever taking on this skill.

Family 1: Genitive

This skill introduces a very important Czech case, the genitive. It is used for objects of many verbs and with a few prepositions and also occurs in constructions with nouns/noun phrases (often to show ownership), adverbs of quantity, and most numbers. Think of this as the equivalent of the English expressions with "of", such as "the color of your eyes" and "a lot of water". We are going to need to add lots of genitive forms:

Demonstrative adjective forms

Case/Num. M an. M in. F N
Nom. sg. ten ten ta to
Acc. sg. toho ten tu to
Gen. sg. toho toho toho
Nom. pl. ti ty ty ta
Acc. pl. ty ty ty ta
Gen. pl. těch těch těch těch

Hard adjective endings

Case/Num. M an. M in. F N
Nom. sg.
Acc. sg. -ého -ou
Gen. sg. -ého -ého -ého
Nom. pl.
Acc. pl.
Gen. pl. -ých -ých -ých -ých

Soft adjective endings

Case/Num. M an. M in. F N
Nom. sg.
Acc. sg. -ího
Gen. sg. -ího -ího -ího
Nom. pl.
Acc. pl.
Gen. pl. -ích -ích -ích -ích

Also use these with the possessive její (her/hers).

Masculine noun endings

Case/Num. kluk muž hrad stroj
Nom. sg. - - - -
Acc. sg. -a -e - -
Gen. sg. -a -e -u -e
Nom. pl. -i -i -y -e
Acc. pl. -y -e -y -e
Gen. pl.

Feminine noun endings

Case/Num. žena ulice ovce píseň věc
Nom. sg. -a -e -e - -
Acc. sg. -u -i -i - -
Gen. sg. -y -e -e -i
Nom. pl. -y -e -e -i
Acc. pl. -y -e -e -i
Gen. pl. - -

Note that ovce does not follow ulice in the plural genitive.

Neuter noun endings

Case/Num. město kuře náměstí
Nom. sg. -o -e
Acc. sg. -o -e
Gen. sg. -a -ete
Nom. pl. -a -ata
Acc. pl. -a -ata
Gen. pl. - -at

Personal pronouns

Nom. Acc. w/o prep. Acc. after prep. Gen. w/o prep. Gen. after prep.
mě, mne mě, mne mě, mne mě, mne
ty , tebe tebe , tebe tebe
on (an.) ho, jeho, jej něho, něj ho, jeho, jej něho, něj
on (in.) ho, jej něj ho, jeho, jej něho, něj
ona (sg.) ji ni
ono ho, je, jej ně, něj ho, jeho, jej něho, něj
my nás nás nás nás
vy vás vás vás vás
oni, ony, ona (pl.) je jich nich

The forms in italics can only appear in the second position, and their two-syllable alternatives become emphatic in that position.

Possessive pronouns

Recall that jeho (his/its) and jejich (their/theirs) do not change in any case, and that její (her/hers) declines like a soft adjective. The other, more challenging possessive pronouns are summarized below:

Possessive pronouns můj, tvůj, and svůj

Gender Nom. sg. Acc. sg. Gen. sg. Nom. pl. Acc. pl. Gen. pl.
M an. můj mého mého moji, mí moje, mé mých
M in. můj můj mého moje, mé moje, mé mých
F moje, má moji, mou mojí, mé moje, mé moje, mé mých
N moje, mé moje, mé mého moje, má moje, má mých

Possessive pronouns náš and váš

Gender Nom. sg. Acc. sg. Gen. sg. Nom. pl. Acc. pl. Gen. pl.
M an. náš našeho našeho naši naše našich
M in. náš náš našeho naše naše našich
F naše naši naší naše naše našich
N naše naše našeho naše naše našich

New verbs

A few verbs that use objects in the genitive:

Person be afraid of ask respect
se bojím se ptám si vážím
Ty se bojíš se ptáš si vážíš
On/Ona/Ono se bojí se ptá si váží
My se bojíme se ptáme si vážíme
Vy se bojíte se ptáte si vážíte
Oni/Ony/Ona se bojí se ptají si váží

The word si is another verb particle, similar to se. These particles occur in the second position and bump words like and ho to the right:

  • Vážíme si tě. (We respect you.)
  • Beru si ho. (I'm marrying him.) [Accusative object, forms similar to žere from the Animals skill.]
  • Bereme se. (We are getting married.) [Always plural. Note the se rather than si. No object (other than the se).]

Prepositions bez and beze

These mean "without". The version beze is used almost exclusively with and mne. Thus beze mě is "without me" and bez jejího auta is "without her car".

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mathias1005

Thanks!

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeWortin

Cože? Nemyslel jsem si, že toho je TÁÁÁÁÁK hodně.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MattaPat

Nueby, those case endings are just so EASY. I just cant wait to get stuck into learning them. Yewwwwwww! Lets get this party started.

I started to be depressed by it all a few weeks ago as it seems clearly unatainalbe (or at least to someone like me who is not overly academic).

I then youtubed something about cases or declension, and an Amercian guy that is clearly in the know about declension made me feel good again. His advice?????

Dont learn them. Too much time wasted learning cases, which eats into valuable time that could be spent on vocab or pretty much anything else to do with languages with declension of nouns.

So I took his advice and couldnt care less about them, and I move on with other more important things, as when people speak to me in Czech, or I speak to them, we both understand eachother even with me surely getting 1 in 20 case ending correct This app seems to allow for the fact that I muck them up all the time, and I like that.

Thats my take on it all, but I'm no expert, just a hacker that's trying to learn his first second language.

Rightio then

Matt

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nueby
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Sure, you be easy no care and no learn declension. But no call it what then speak Czech. Other be it suffering listen and puzzle solve. Maybe this also know when boot on other foot. So more gladly listener leave clues order words like English else will no be know who what do. Much success!

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MattaPat

I in some way am backing out of my previous statment. I don't really want to back out of it, as I hate the Padi (of course only because I don't "get it"), but I'm up to level 3 in animals and food, and I've reached a point where I cant really progress at any rate without understanding F@#ing declension. So I am left with no option in this system apart from either learn them, guess, or quit.

It took me a bit to work out you were on about nueby, but I assume that your saying that your jumble of a paragraph is equivelant to a Czech paragraph with PUOP (poor use of padi)

VladaFu, I dont get the Massa Bob line either

Im bumbed out

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nueby
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I just wanted to caution you. It is foolhardy to go into learning a heavily inflected language like Czech with a dismissive attitude towards the case endings. The endings are in the language whether the student ignores them or not, and that gives the language its rather confusing fluidity of word order, no secret to its native and proficient second-language speakers. We use that fluidity, usually without thinking.

For example, we recently had a discussion about how to best translate I do not drink coffee. Depending on whether or not one includes the subject pronoun "já", the Czech version has either three or four words, but do check out what all goes into choosing the way of ordering them. The most likely word order does not match the naive word-for-word translation from English. In this case we would know who is not drinking who even without the endings.

But consider Matěj killed František. If we do not bother putting the victim's name in the accusative, we will need to maintain a convention artificially constraining Czech to an English-like fixed word order to make up for the missing endings. Matěj zabil František. And even that presumes we would bother to learn the past tense.

So take heart, but also approach the language with some respect. It took centuries to get where it is, and no youtuber language hacker will discover a magic potion that makes all of the pesky features just go away. Slow down to avoid overloading the brain and try to enjoy it. Keep the tips open in another tab as you go, see if that makes it feel like more help than a chore. And if something is unclear, ask. We do eventually answer. And we always try to take user feedback into account when considering the tweaks for the next version of the course.

Nothing any of us can do about Czech itself. It is what it is, among other reasons because the extent of its flattening by non-native users has been negligible. Spanish is easier. Esperanto way easier. Perhaps some strength can be had in the reason you chose Czech instead?

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MattaPat

I appreciate your detailed reply. It all seems too much for me, too unatainable, too much to remember.

I cant enjoy it, I'm too frustrated by declension. Verb conjugation, present, past and future is OK-ish for me at this stage.

I appreciate that people like you are there to answer questions, but it just seems like I will need to study table after table. The info is there, I just have to learn it, but I just dont want to (this sounds childish I know)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw6hCaw_mDM is the original link I was referring to.

Can you give me adivce. Should I just cram study declension tables for a while? Or what is the best way to approach something that appears nemozne

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nueby
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No, Duolingo is not supposed to be about cramming tables. The founder does not even think all the Tips & Notes are necessary. We are supposed to soak the grammar in by repeatedly trying the exercises, presumably failing more than succeeding in the beginning, but gradually getting better, getting encouragement from the green bird and collecting various nicknacks. The design of this website and apps is supposed to make it all feel like a fun game.

For some reason you are just frustrated. Since you learned at least one language already, I am going to guess you are just trying too hard, too fast. Why are you learning a language as difficult for English speakers as Czech anyway? And what's the rush?

Slow down. Let it sink in. Do not rush into Family 1 or even past its row. If you feel frustrated by the nominative and the accusative, exposing yourself to the genitive makes zero sense.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BoneheadBass
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You have Seen The Light, and I congratulate you! Know that you will get the endings sooner or later, possibly, like I am doing, "in batches." Meanwhile, I admire your willingness to get out there and speak, without the freeze-inducing Brain Block that prevents me from trying to communicate when I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it (totally) correctly. We all have our challenges...

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/VladaFu
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Massa Bob approves.

1 month ago
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