"This fork is not used to eat noodles."

Translation:Garpu ini tidak digunakan untuk makan mi.

December 19, 2018

This discussion is locked.


I'm curious, Would this sentence still be correct without the word "untuk".


As an Indonesian, I could say it's not correct in this case. Although we could omit it sometimes, but not with this one :)


Nope. It's like when you remove the "to" from the "This fork is not used to eat noodles.".


I don't agree, actually. I suspect that /untuk/ is optional there. Indonesian people use verbs immediately followed by other verbs all the time in casual, normal speaking.

It's not necessary to impose the grammatical constraints of one language on to the target language into which a message is being translated.

"to [verb]" is an infinitive verbal structure, and Indonesian doesn't have infinitives. /Untuk/ in this case would instead carry the sense of 'for the purpose of', but it's not necessary to explicitly state the /untuk/ in order for an Indonesian person to understand what you mean because it's normal for them to talk that way.


I guess I agree with you on so many parts, that we shouldn't think we can simply impose any grammatical constraints of one language to the target language especially when it comes to Indonesian and English where there are so many grammatical differences between them two, for example just like what you've mentioned that Indonesian doesn't have infinitives. And yes, the word /untuk/ here is to state the purpose of something, and again, yes of course, native speakers can still understand if you speak like that and it's true that sometimes some of them don't even use the word /untuk/ in this type of sentence when they're talking on a daily basis.

But what made me think it's incorrect to just make it disappear here is because when you're writing a paper where you're demanded to use the correct Indonesian, most likely you will put /untuk/ there, and even the natives don't just erase /untuk/ that often on a daily basis. Also, because the way that native Indonesians speak on a daily basis is not the "correct Indonesian" anyway and is really different compared to the standard Indonesian language that we're learning here in Duolingo (or in any platform I guess, since what I know is that if you learn Indonesian then it usually is the standard Indonesian), it's kinda hard to tell if something is still correct just by taking examples from how the natives speak daily. The native speakers' daily Indonesian is on a whole different level and is achieved by practice, so I still feel that it's kinda ambiguous whether it's grammatically correct without /untuk/, since the way the native Indonesians speak daily doesn't even truly represent the structure of standard Indonesian; a sentence might seems normal, but it doesn't always mean it's a correct one.

Anyway, I really do respect your explanation since I'm not a language teacher or expert I can't be 100% sure about this myself, and you could be right too :) My answer is just based on my logic and personal experience, as a native speaker I personally don't always find it normal or correct to just make the /untuk/ disappear, although I can still understand it.


Strangely 'dipakai' is wrong according to duolingo.


I came across a similar question on another sentence discussion. @WayangOrang (an Indonesian native speaker) explained there that "menggunakan" is used particularly when a tool is designed for a certain purpose (e.g. computer). The same logic can be applied to utensils, pens, scissors etc. -- I've checked online and I can assure you those tools are followed by "digunakan". But I couldn't find "dipakai" being interchangeable for those tools.


Why not memakan

Learn Indonesian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.