https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Time from Morning until Noon - How Do You Call It?

Hey guys,

just a short question. In German we call the time from the morning 'till noon 'der Vormittag'. Means it is not morning anymore but not noon yet. Round about from 8/9 - 12 o'clock. In dictionaries I only found the word morning as a translation. I learned at school (not a always a very reliable source) you only say morning. Now I found a word I never heard before: forenoon - der Vormittag. Do you use that word or is it just nonsense?

best regards, Angel

December 20, 2018

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lksaltern

I'm just one person, but as a native English speaker this is the first time I've heard the word "forenoon." The Oxford English Dictionary's database gives it a frequency score of 4, which means it shows up in writing once out of every 1.000.000 to 10.000.000 words. By contrast, the word "morning" appears once out of every 10.000 to 100.000 words (about 100 times as often).

The examples of the word the OED cites are dated between 1511 and 1878, so maybe it used to be more common than it is now. The most recent of these usages is from Thomas Henry Huxley's Physiography: an introduction to the study of nature, 2nd ed, 1878, which uses the phrase "the forenoon shadow."

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Hi lksaltern,

thank you for your quick answer. I was already doubting myself. So the time period from 8/9 - 12 o'clock is simply morning in English, right? You don't have a word for it like afternoon?

best regards, Angel

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lksaltern

Yes. I've heard "morning" even if someone is talking about 11:59 am. Often one language has more specific words for something than another language does. Expressing the exact same idea in the other language may require more than one word. In this case, German vocabulary provides more precision than English.

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Thank you very much for your answer. You are absolutely right, it differs a lot between the languages. Usually the English language has more to offer and we swipe words from you.

I just wanted to translate mañana por la mañana into English but as it seems I have to think of a workaround. You were a great help, thanks.

best regards, Angel

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gray_Roze

Mañana por la mañana in English would just be tomorrow morning.

December 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

Hello RedAngel666,

I have never heard or read the word "forenoon". The Oxford dictionary describes it as "North American, nautical": https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/forenoon

Merriam-Webster does not give any qualifying remarks, but the sample sentences also sound quite maritime:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forenoon

Let's see what the native speakers say.

(Cross-posted with lksaltern)

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Servus Heike,

I thought already that this word is old, not used or just nonsense. I just wanted to be sure. What a pity, it would have been great to find a word for 'Vormittag', wanted to use it for my cards. But stuff it, have to find another solution. Thanks for your answer :-)

liebe Grüße Angel

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vabelie

RedAngel doesn't appear to study French, but perhaps Heike or someone else would like to know the word "matinée" suits well the meaning of "Vormittag": it's the potentially productive time you have between your awakening and noon/lunch time.

"Matin" on the other hand is "morning", the early part of the day, without any relation to any conscious being willing to use or waste it :)

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Usagiboy7

Oooh! Suddenly I get why movie theaters call it a matinee showing! :D

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vabelie

Oh, yes, there's the words travelling too, and it gets even more interesting!

We have those "séances en matinée" or simply "matinées" too (movie theaters or theaters), but they usely take place… in the afternoon!
All because of the Revolution: priviledged people had a habit to be entertained before their midday meal, but they basically got to get up later and later, while still calling their early show "la matinée".
That's also the source for endless fun about the names of the meals between French people and other French speaking ones, especially in Canada, who kept the old (and logical) usage when we messed it all up) ;p

December 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Hi Vabelie,

even though you are right (I don't study French at the moment) I'm interested in it and tried to learn it in my childhood. So thanks for your post it is really interesting and like Usagiboy wrote also helpful to understand your own language. Theaters and cinemas call it here 'Matinee'.

best regards and merry Christmas, Angel

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vabelie

I'm pleased, RedAngel. And will probably still be around if and when you wish to further study my dear twisted language.

I also like these bits of trivia about languages even if I don't plan to get involved with them at the moment.
That's another great aspect of Duolingo as a multilingual community: you always get to learn more than you first expected.

And that's one less thing I will struggle with if I'm lucky enough to visit beautiful Germany: it must be particularly lovely in the Advent time?
A very merry Christmas to you and your kin, RedAngel :)

December 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Usagiboy7

These are the words I use most often:
- Dawn (sunrise), early morning, morning, late morning, early afternoon, afternoon, late afternoon, early evening, golden hour, evening, dusk (sunset), late evening, night, late night.

Golden hour
- Takes place when the sun is setting and its light turns everything golden. This term is generally more familiar among photographers.

Overlap:
- Morning is often used generically for any morning time.
- Afternoon generically for any noon time, late early, etc.
- Evening generically and overlaps with night after sunset.
- 1-3am-ish can be called really late at night, or really early in the morning. For example, "Ugh, I was up really late last night. I only got a couple hours of sleep before I had to get up for work."

Regional language note:
I grew up in Oregon, Utah, and California, USA.

[Updated after posting for clarity.]

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lksaltern

You forgot "happy hour" ;)

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Usagiboy7

Iksaltern, lol!

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Hi Usagiboy,

your answer is very interesting, thank you. I can tall for every example you wrote a German equivalent. Only for the time between 5/6 o'clock we have a little different organization. We also have the early morning (früher Morgen, früh morgens) morning (morgens) than we say 'Vormittag' until ca. 12 o'clock than it is the same again like in English.

Thanks for your Regional language note. It is always helpful to interprete the information. Sayings, expressions and names can differ a lot from region to region, especially in English with its spread (GB, USA, Australia etc.). In German it is pretty the same.

best regards and marry Christmas for you and your beloved, Angel

edit: lksaltern is right, 'happy hour' is an important time. Especially for bying cocktails :-)

December 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pepper-nut

No, I've never heard of an English equivalent to "der Vormittag". Gosh, I love German specificity. However, we will say "early morning" or "late morning" to differentiate. I suppose late morning is usually after 10am-11:59am -- it's somewhat relative to who you are talking to and what time they get up! :-)

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lksaltern

That sounds like a good solution.

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

Hi Lauren,

thanks a lot for your answer. I agree with lksaltern. Your explanation sounds like a good workaround for my problem :-)

This is why I love this forum. Quick answers from nice people.

best regards, Angel

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Galaxy582

I have never used the word forenoon. It is a word, just not commonly used. I probably would just use "morning".

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedAngel666

thanks. Seems the dictionary just took an old not common word.

December 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/floer

As a native English speaker, I don't recall ever hearing the word "forenoon". It sounds like the kind of old-fashioned word which you might find in Shakespeare but which no one uses any more.

"Morning" usually refers to any time from dawn (say as early as 5am) to noon. Technically anytime from midnight to noon could be "morning", and one could say "3:00 in the morning", but I think "3 AM" would be more common. In German one would describe this time as "drei Uhr nachts" which makes more sense.

December 23, 2018
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