https://www.duolingo.com/stinkbabe

"Type what you hear" as long as it's not too advanced

A problem I keep coming up against, and is really frustrating me is 'type what you hear' questions in Japanese that don't expect me to know a piece of kanji (despite it already coming up), and marks me wrong if I provide it.

Example: https://imgur.com/ws9JlE7 Voice says ”かいしゃ” I type in "会社" I get a wrong answer, despite being correct.

This has come up on a few of these types of questions in other topics, and sometimes they accept kanji and sometimes they don't. Is this an easy fix?

Edit: This sounds really salty, but I didn't meant it to be and I hope it doesn't sound really bitchy.

1 week ago

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Luke_5.1991
Luke_5.1991
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They notified me today that they're looking into this!

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/stinkbabe

That's good to hear. I was just about to come back and say future questions ask you for the kanji, or a mix of kanji and hiragana, meaning to ust have to guess if you wanna get em right.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mapaity
mapaity
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wow! how many languaes do you learn! Respect!

6 days ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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Sadly, it's not an easy fix. Duolingo's programming wasn't made to contend with languages with multiple writing systems like Japanese, and for whatever reason, the listening exercises can only be programmed to accept one very specific answer. As far as I know, Duolingo's staff is aware of the issue, but I haven't heard any word of if or when a fix might be coming.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/stinkbabe

Thank you! I'll just be sure to slow down and look out for those questions in the future.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/testmoogle
testmoogle
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What seems like an easy temporary fix would be to change the instruction text: "Type what you hear. (Please write it in kana only.)"

Is it completely essential for users to convert their answer to kanji after they've typed it? If people can write it correctly in kana — not misspelling things like the particles は へ and を, chouon, sokuon, (han)dakuon,... — this seems like enough to show the user correctly heard what was spoken in the audio. ^^

However, does it even always accept kana-only answers in the listening exercises?

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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As far as I understand, it accepts only the answer that is the "best" translation for the sentence and not any variations. So for sentences that include kanji that have already been taught, the kanji is used in the "best" translation, but the kanji is not used for words that would require characters that have not yet been introduced. If we input kana-only variations, the kanji would not show up for the written exercises, and then everyone would complain that we don't use kanji. So solving the listening exercise problem would lead to additional issues with written exercises.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/testmoogle
testmoogle
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Wow! That sounds like a much more impossible to deal with situation than I realised. I can see there would be no nice, quick temporary workarounds possible for that. ^^;

I understand the problem much better now. Thank you.

So if the Japanese word for Saturday came up in a listening exercise, the user would have a tough time typing it?

  • Rejected: どようび
  • Rejected: 土曜日
  • Accepted: 土よう日

The user would have to do something like type つち and convert this to 土; then type よう and press Enter once; then type にち (or more riskily ひ) and convert this to 日.

Or, I guess the much easier method would be to type どようび and convert this to 土曜日; then press the left arrow key followed by backspace to erase the middle kanji; and then, in place of that kanji, type よう again.

I only tried the listening exercises a couple of times before I disabled them. I think I'll turn them back on for a while to experience the awkwardness for myself. I like testing things. ^^

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Paul.II

The way I deal with exactly this issue is to avoid using keyboard. When I do the listening exercises, I listen and try to understand first, if inclined, I would repeat the phrase, and then I would cherry-pick the sounds/words that were spoken from whatever is available on the page.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hm437e
hm437e
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There is also the issue that the Kanji that ends up getting input may not the one that Duo is looking for.
Case in point: In doing a review exercise, Duo asked me to type "wind" in Japanese. Unfamiliar with the Kanji, I typed in かぜ, and my computer returned 風邪. Duo didn't like that. Turns out, Duo accepted 風, as the other, 風邪, although pronounced the same, means a cold (as in sniffles, sneezes, etc). So I learned a new Kanji along with being more aware of the suggestions coming up on the screen.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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Is that really an "issue," though? A big part of learning Japanese, regardless of whether or not you are using Duolingo, is learning the correct kanji for words that have the same pronunciation, especially since Japanese has a limited amount of possible syllable combinations.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hm437e
hm437e
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It is not an issue as in a bug in the system, I look at it as a challenge to be overcome, a skill to be learned. But you first must be aware of it. I wasn't; something I had to learn.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dylan_Nicholson

It's a bug in the system, simple as that. If you hear the word どようび (do-you-bi) and are asked to type what you hear, then any way of writing it that is valid Japanese should be accepted. Which means, equally, typing in hiragana for words that are only ever written in katakana shouldn't be. To have a situation where there some questions where only 土よう日 is accepted (which is a pain to type with most IMEs) where for others どようび or even 土曜日 might be is clearly absurd. And you can't say Japanese is THAT special in this regard, it's not that different to the fact that in English you might write "colour" "color" or "COLOUR" and all are accepted (at least, I hope!).

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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That's not what was being described here, though. What's being described here is typing the wrong kanji (風-wind and 風邪-a cold), which is like if you were doing English listening exercises that say, "I have two fish" and you wrote "I have too fish." Technically, that IS the sound that you heard, but it's not correct. Trying to distinguish homophones by context is actually a big part of listening exercises.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OlgaBab1

Judging by TestMoogle's comment Duolingo accepts 土よう日 as correct and wouldn't accept 土曜日. That seems to be a problem to me since 'encoding' Satrurday as 土よう日 is acceptable for elementary school but is not as widely used as 土曜日

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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You do realize that my above comment is a reply to the person talking about 風 (wind) and 風邪 (a cold), right? This isn't even related to the above conversation with Testmoogle about 土曜日, which is a separate comment thread about a separate topic.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OlgaBab1

I'd hate to sound impolite but your statement implies that 土よう日is a correct kanji for Saturday and 土曜日is not which is not true. Both are correct but 土よう日 is used by kids and for kids because they don't know how to write/read 曜

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehartz
ehartz
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Also by textbooks teaching elementary Japanese to non-native speakers at the N5 level, which is where the course currently is.

I apologize for any confusion, but the thread you're replying to has nothing to do with the issue of 土曜日. They were relating to a completely different comment...

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OlgaBab1

It did appear to me that you were replying to the Saturday thread, the wind/cold thread is different and you are absolutely correct there that one has to differentiate between these two to avoid misunderstanding. (and I have failed to differentiate between two threads, silly me) I apologize again!

1 week ago
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