Leaderboards now on all Android devices (updated)
If you have an Android device and your app is up to date, you can now access Leaderboards! (update Apr 5 2019: now also available on iOS devices)
What are Leaderboards?
On Android, based on your activity on Duolingo, you will automatically* be placed a League. You will see it as a leaderboard. The top ten XP performers of that leaderboard will be “promoted” to a higher tier for the next cycle. So if you are up for a little competition, check it out! And if not, not to worry – Leaderboards won’t affect your regular Duolingo lesson experience.
The Duolingo app automatically generates a group of about 50 people and creates a leaderboard. This cohort is decided based on people who did their first lesson of the week around the same time.
A Leaderboard cycle currently runs from Monday to Sunday. Since your group all started around the same time, things should still be fair.
If you're in the top 10 at the end of the week, you'll be “promoted” to a higher league, so the next week your group will likely consist of more competitive users. If you're in the bottom 5 of any league above Bronze, you'll fall back to a league that's less competitive so that it'll be a more fair group to compare against.
There are currently 5 leagues. All users start in the same place (the bottom) where everyone is just chillin’.
If you are a parent or a teacher, you can disable Leaderboards as long as your child is in a Schools classroom. Simply turn off the "Enable social profile" privacy setting. Note that registered children’s accounts are automatically excluded from Leaderboards.
*Can’t see it on your Android device? Please ensure:
- You are on the latest Android version of Duolingo, and that you have done a lesson on Android
- You are not currently enrolled in a Duolingo Club, in any language
- You are not in a right-to-left language (coming)
Let us know if you have any questions, and we hope you enjoy Leaderboards!
[Note] We are aware of a bug making it so a small amount of people see Leaderboards instead of their active Club, and are actively working on a resolution. Thank you for your patience around that.
Good luck and happy learning!
[UPDATE Apr. 5 2019] now also available on iOS, for new users, or those not in a Club.
Lots of great feedback in this conversation. We are reading through it and taking notes. Leaderboards is still in development and we are making tweaks, fixes, and improvements as we look at its performance and user feedback. Rest assured we already have many of these suggestions planned, so stay tuned and keep that feedback coming (for example, we realize that the XP that counts needs a bit of adjustment) Also, we should mention that the current plan is to test Leaderboards on iOS and web as well. As usual, we start with one platform and take it from there. When a new feature is being successful, there is a balance between making more improvements before porting or making it available on more platforms first and then tweaking the details in several different places. Our team is working hard on these points and we appreciate your input!
Did you take into account that people like to interact with each other? There's no interaction with others in the leagues. Like many people really appreciate learning thru interaction with others! PLEASE CONSIDER.
"we realize that the XP that counts needs a bit of adjustment"
That's great news indeed!
I hope that you will find way to make the leaderboards less vulnerable to abuse.
Yes, please replicate the experience between devices. Eg, I don't understand why leaderboards are available on my mobile, but not on my PC. When I'm doing a lesson on my PC, I have to have the app open on my phone as well, to follow my position on the leaderboard. I look forward to this improvement. Thanks!
Please please keep the conversation aspect like you have in the clubs. My friends and I use our club to write to each other in Spanish (the language we are learning). It is FANTASTIC practice for us to have written conversations in Spanish. Besides the lessons, it’s the main reason we use Duolingo. Now that clubs are going away- there will be no way to converse! Please have that feature!! Thank you!
PRO's and CON's of XP LEAGUES
Thanks so much for taking feedback and for always trying new features.
- Solves club issue of never finding enough committed users (one of the biggest downfalls of clubs)
- Automated removal of inactive users
- Grouping together of active & similar level users
- It's been tons of fun getting lots of xp, but glad you're fixing the disparity
- No chat/removal of community aspect
- Not same language/region
- You have one inactive week and you lose your friends
- Can't be in a club at the same time, or join with friends (though they should combine best features of both)
- The name is confusing since there's Leaderboard on desktop which is a different feature. If the new feature was just consistently refered to as Leagues that'd be great
- Combine best features of clubs/leagues giving admin option to turn certain features off/on
- Allow club admins to set minimum of daily/monthly/yearly xp so users with similar goals will join the same club
- Use automated inactive removal of users in clubs, but with admin ability to protect key users
- Keep social aspect
- Group users by language, and give the choice of region as well (ie. I want to learn French with other Quebecers since the language is different here)
- A few extra stats would be a nice bonus.. (ie. active weeks/monthly/yearly club rankings/avg weekly ranking)
- More xp for more difficult lessons. Spending 45 seconds is different than spending 10m on a challenging lesson
- Tips and Notes on Mobile please <3
- Allow people joining clubs to send 'request' to admin if full, so they don't just get denied.
- Glad desktop is going to receive some features soon :D
- Shop items ;)
Thanks so much for everything you do!
Your post was very interesting. Many of the features you would like to see in the new leaderboards specifically the ability to communicate and for there to be an admin taking control really describe the club that I am currently the admin of. We have a committed number of active members learning the same language who communicated with each other, have friendly competition and support one another in learning a language. I keep it active by removing inactive members unless they let me know there will be a period of inactivity, after all life can get in the way. People have contacted me on the discussion forums asking to join our club, and I always make space from the latest group to be eliminated. Net result, clubs can work really well if you have an admin willing to run it as a club. That is why I do not like the current concept of leaderboards.
I do agree giving admins more controls would be an excellent idea! At the moment I can remove someone and their post immediately if their pure intention is to join a club to spam or use bad language but I would love the ability, for example, to award lingots to the leaderboard winner each Sunday.
Thanks for sharing how it's worked for you.
Did you end up with a group with 40+ active long-term members? Cause I just kept getting curious newbies that would fade in the first 1-5 weeks.
I'm still admin for about a year now and deleting people and trying to set minimum participation. It took so much effort for very minimal results.
It really all depends on if you get sent the right people I guess. Or maybe I needed to be more ruthless as an admin :p I did keep asking if anyone wanted to help admin, maybe when I went 0 for 49 everytime I should've just started fresh.
I went all out and had threads for different topics and even tracked our stats week after week to encourage people... like this: http://www.tinyurl.com/DuoCanadiansScoresheet
Awarding lingots is a great idea, just too bad they aren't very useful.
If there was just a little bit more control for admin and some automation to filter out the vast amounts of uncommitted it'd be great.
Firstly, I am seriously in awe of your stat tracking! That is impressive.
As to my group, on average 40 are active each week earning XP, so I eliminate roughly 10 every Sunday. On the board itself, the number of people who participate in the club community is less than 40. That is fine with me, as I used to like the clubs when they were 15 members. We have a number of people who are on the boards and contributing almost every day and at any one time there are always multiple conversations taking place on so many different subjects, but all pretty much exclusively in Spanish, unless someone gets stuck and asks for help.
I agree under the latest system there is a lottery as to who gets randomly sent to the club. However, some of my most active members are ones who saw me discussing the club in the forums and specifically asked to join. In that instance I will arrange a mutual time when I remove a member and they join.
I would like a bit more control as admin as you suggest.
And finally, if you don't get kidnapped into a leaderboard and you do start pursuing your Spanish, come and hang out with us for a while in our club!! You don't have to do an admin thing....
Aha ya, I find it really helps not just rely on XP to keep motivated, and not remove decent people accidentally.
Oh wow, you've really fostered a great community it sounds like. Way to go!
We ended up with less than a handful of people chatting, and it didn't last too long either.
Ya a few times I almost posted on the forum or reddit for the club. Just never pulled the trigger as it was already so much work.
Thanks so much for the invite, not sure I'll get into Spanish, more of a, if I had unlimited free time things.
BTW, any key things you would add/remove/disagree with from the pro/con lists? I could add to the list or reconsider better options.
If they can implement this then Duolingo would actually be social, competitive, and very motivating. I really hope they can see your suggestion and work to make it happen! :)
Sorry, but i want back MY board, with MY friends, not this f.. league. I have no idea, who are those people, but i see them, inspite of my wil. Is there ANY option or possibility to CHOOSE/to DECIDE?
i have a lot of annoying things here, so i dont need this childish trick. And i use laptop version, not android, so really i dont get, why is that unwanted league here :((( if it stays here, im gonna leave.
Can we still access clubs? If so, how? I have once before, (with leadership) but it went away again. I want to do the use this word, and listening challenges and talk to new people :-(
you can access clubs from an old version on Huawei Android. The club icon will appear for around 2 seconds before vanishing. If you used clubs then restart duolingo, the club icon would vanish at once. In that case, simply wait a couple of hours before attempting again.
There does not seem to be a definitive answer on how to disable leaderboards and go back to clubs. I was enrolled in a club prior to the update that made leaderboards active on all platforms. The near-consensus seems to be that everyone can no longer access duolingo clubs; instead, clubs has been replaced by the poorly-received leaderboards. I just want my club back.
Sadly, this is true. Clubs are gone and I’m not happy about it either. A lot of us here miss our clubs but it seems no one in charge seems to care.
I considered starting a “class” for my club ppl using the Classroom app, but then realized that it probably wouldn’t be as helpful bcz my club members were of varying expertise levels...and it would also make more work for me as admin/creator bcz I would have to make assignments for the ppl in my “class”. Honestly, I’m the least capable person to do this. The whole reason I wanted/created a French club on Duolingo was bcz I’m trying to learn the language of my family (my French grandmother married a US GI & came to the US after WWII) & I’m very much a beginner. Why I loved having the club was that I have actual friends that were members that live across the globe and, with everyone having different levels of experience in the language, it helped us all.
Leaderboards? No interaction. No guarantee you’re even gauging yourself against ppl learning the same language as you are. It’s actually discouraging if you think about this angle.
All I can think of is that Duo has opted for Leaderboards only bcz it makes (some/most) users just blindly plug away to make Leaderboard points...and if they’re on the free version, that means more ads, means more $$ forDuo.
Why not let having access to Clubs be a Plus option??
Ok. End Rant.
Thanks for the 2 other, really useful, new features in the Android app
link to the Duolingo Help Center
Profile tab - Settings - General: Help Center.
Streak Saver notification
Profile tab - Settings - Notifications: Streak Saver.
How about making the version number easy to find?
It would help in your own announcements, if you specified the version number, because today's current version, will be tomorrow's old version.
Also using Duolingo's own forum search, searching on 4.0.2 (January 20, 2019 current Android Duolingo version) brings up references to:
Android operating system version 4.0.2 and iPhone Duolingo version 4.0.2
It would really be helpful, when posts are made about liking a particular version of Duolingo, if the post specified iOS, android, or web and the associated version number of Duolingo.
Another way to find the app version.
Go to main Android screen (not the duolingo screen)
Settings (the wheel clog)
Apps & notifications
Today's (January 20, 2019) version number :
Android app version: 4.0.2 (691)
icon of lady --> Settings --> Feedback --> Share with (your mail program) --> Just once
Change the to:
to: (my own email, instead of duolingo's email)
App version code: 4.0.2 (691)
API Level: 27
OS Version: 3.18.71-perf-g8a728bd (4af3)
Host (Device): ilclbld58 (sanders)
Model (Product): Moto G (5S) Plus (sanders)
Screen: 1080x1776, 480dpi
Config: Internal, 192 | 192
Languages: es<-en : en : en_US
Getting XP is unbalanced in relation to effort. By testing out of skills you can get massive amounts of XP in a short time. I'm brushing off my french knowledge and can easily do a thousand XP in an hour just by testing out old knowledge. When you go through a language in a normal learning fashion there is no chance you can reach the high levels of the leaderboard.
This is one reason I'd appreciate an opt-out feature - I mainly use Duo to pick up French vocab and refresh some of the grammar points I've forgotten from high school, so it feels a bit weird to be on a leaderboard with other people who might actually be learning the language from scratch, especially when my score increases super quickly because I can test out of most skills instead of doing the lessons.
Not that scoring on the leaderboard is such a huge deal one way or another, but at least IMO it'd be nice to have the option of being a noncompetitive hermit if I so choose =)
Completely agree! I'm using the testing out feature to review my semi-fluent French so my points accumulate fast, but I wouldn't be competitive at all if my points were based on the languages I'm learning from scratch. Seems unfair that I'm getting more credit for the part that I put the least effort into.
I realize that real fast as well when I saw people with these scores 1,700 and up. I started testing out of things myself but then I realized that I didn't think I was really doing myself any favors, even though I was getting 100% on all the tests. So I just stopped. Now I also don't get bonus xp's for completing each lesson. I did before this last update.
They changed it now, you can only get 20 XP by testing out of any skill. It's sad but I understand why they did it.
You have to do a lesson on Android to get put into an initial group, but after that your XP from any platform should count. XP from all lessons count, as well as from Stories and attending Events.
It sounds like as long as you do one lesson on Android, it will subsequently work with computers as well. If you don't have an Android phone, perhaps you could borrow a friend's or something.
I do not have any mobile device, actually. And although the XP on the computer will count, it seems that I won't be able to see the leaderboard on the computer.
That is what I am doing. Bluestacks works just fine.
The problem with stories is that they're only available for what, two languages?
It's not exactly the same thing, but on the computer you can currently see where you are compared to all the people you follow on a weekly, monthly and all-time XP basis (scroll a bit down, it should be on the right side of the screen). It's not the same as the tires, but it can still give you an incentive...
Yeah, I know. As I'm always at the top it doesn't really give me much incentive. Anyway, it's not really the same thing . . . but thanks!
Helpful Duo, thank you for the post explaining the leaderboards, and ESPECIALLY thank you for working on the bug so that people in a club can see their clubs again.
Working hard on it, sorry for the inconvenience it may have caused, Sharon275517!
I have a new friend that just joined and I want to invite her to my club, but she got put into a leaderboard and now can't find any options on her android app to join with my club code, nor to leave the leaderboard. How can I get her into my club?
I'm a new person, invited to a club, that I can't join because I was assigned to a leaderboard. I want to do both!
What if you were not in a club before the switch to leaderboards and want to join a club now? Will Android users be able to newly join a club they have been invited to? I have actual friends that want to join my private club, but, since they use Android, they are only forced into a leaderboard (which they have no interest in) & can’t access my club (or any club). It’s very frustrating.
I'm in a club and we got a message this morning they'll be closed in a week.
That is terrible news! What language club are you in? And can you post on the April 2019 Update thread to warn people there so as many people as possible see this warning?
I received the same message when I came this morning to the German tree. It told me I could join the leaderboards at that moment or wait until May 19th, that time I'd be moved automatically.
Has anything been updated? My office has started a club and I am the only one who can't join due to only being able to access Leaderboards. This is very frustrating and de-motivating.
I currently have no way to disable (from within the Duolingo app) notifications on my Android device when someone passes me on a Leaderboard. Will you be adding an option to turn these off in our settings at some point. Also, will you be adding a way to opt out of Leaderboards all together for those not in classroom, who are disinterested in participating in this new feature?
EseEmeErre, if you update to the latest version, there should be a Leaderboards-specific notification setting. Please try that and get back to us! I am not aware of the opting out in this initial stage of the feature... hopefully the notification setting will at least make it so it does not get annoying to you if you don't want to participate.
I had 4.0.2 installed, the latest update that the Play store was offering, but had no league-specific option. I uninstalled and reinstalled (still 4.0.2), and I now have an option to turn off league notifications at the bottom of the configuration page. Thanks, that will greatly reduce the annoyance factor :)
Hopefully you'll add an opt-out option in the future.
In their current state the leaderboards are just plain ridiculous. Last night I got promoted to the Gold league without doing anything more than usual. And now, only nine hours since the new qualifying period has started, the leader of my league has 3970 XP (out of 15863 of their total XP). At this rate, this person is going to have around 75 000 XP by the end of the week - possibly from testing out and then resetting the course.
Duolingo, I hope you do something about it soon, because now the system only encourages cheating, unhealthy binging and treating Duolingo as a game. Furthermore, it may be very demotivating for a lot of people. And I'm just going to ignore the boards and do my usual Duo routine.
Hey dreamloomer. If you look at the activity of your new leader for the last 14 hours, it is ALL testing out. There are only a small number of 10XP lessons amongst that high number. It is absurd!
Test outs. We're fixing this imbalance though. Should be live in a couple of weeks.
In a couple of weeks? Too bad it's going to be that long. In the meantime the cheaters will completely spoil the league experience for the honest learners.
To be honest, the system should be turned off completely now and introduced again only after fixing, instead of letting it exist in current dysfunctional shape.
SeanColombo, one month ago you wrote about getting the fix live in a couple of weeks. Well, a couple of weeks have definitely passed. Are you planning to do anything or are you satisfied with this sick, half-baked leaderboard system?
SeanColombo, one month ago you wrote about getting the fix live in a couple of weeks. Well, a couple of weeks have definitely passed. Are you planning to do anything or are you satisfied with this sick, half-baked leaderboard system?
The change (=testouts, like any session, only give XPs for the number of exercises validated) is actually already being A/B tested since few weeks.
So Duo is not only planning to do something, they already did it and are now A/B testing it.
Note: you can see in here that complains about this change are quite popular.
Not saying it'll influence the A/B test (it shouldn't), just making the remark.
Yes, I looked at their activity at Duome. Pure absurd! I wonder what drives such people...
There's this Richard guy (no profile pic btw) in my league who was #1 in silver with around 17k xp doing only French, his total for his French was 20-something thousand. He won his 20lingots last week and somehow he made it back in my same silver league, but now with 3 languages Danish(30.7k xp), German(4.5k xp) and Italian(1.7k xp) and no French. Either that is coincidence or he really knows how to abuse the xp system.
It's also possible that the person switched to e.g. French as the base language, in which case the English-courses would not show. My stats might look odd as well, as I do a lot of English-to-Spanish but also Spanish-to-English (reverse course).
Abusing the system is not that hard, unfortunately. Too bad the league mechanism is completely half-baked and it should be remade from scratch.
It seems a real successful tool as it is the clubs it is been replacing by leaderboard. Clubs are small communities who can develope and increase competition, depending of the members and the admin. There are thousand of clubs. Some members have already developed social relations, competition is high and they are real friends in the end, even they are in the other side of the world. I cannot understand how a machine-made leaderboard can develope this social dimension in language learning. It is something impersonal. I keep some clubs that are successful so far. I would prefer smaller communities of friends to challenge each other and try harder, to interact in language learning, to ask questions. Even personal problems can be announced in these clubs. It is more human. Yes, it is difficult to administer clubs, but everybody can report misuse and harassment. I would prefer a variety of competitions that could enrich clubs as it is the active participation in tests, quizes, short stories telling and more, team games, that an admin could choose which one is better for the members of the club. 50 members in a club are too many! The number of 15 members was a good number. A top-10 or top-5 each week with lingots as a reward could boost efficiency and competition. Extreme testing is a minus in clubs. It doesn't promote learning very much, as you can earn XP without much effort. Another issue: Friend without the possibility to interact in a way is useless. But it is another problem...
I agree. I really value the interaction in the clubs, and the little challenges that pop up. I am now in three clubs with good interaction, and I’m very happy. I’m glad Leagues haven’t come to the iOS app yet.
I agree with @Stergi3 (Einstein, welcome back! Be my friend) . Friends without contact is nul and void. An oxymoron. Ask Albert, he's a genius, but he knows his onions, or as we English say, il connait bien ses oignons/ses affaires.
I suspect that Leaderboards, the way they are currently designed, do not support proper language learning. According to the Support page, the Health system on iOS "is a way of pacing Duolingo lessons to discourage binging behavior, which is shown to be ineffective for learning a new language"
So on the one hand Duolingo has implemented a system to discourage binging as well as a Leaderboards system that encourages binging. I know we're talking about two different platforms here, and I understand that some people are motivated by the competitive aspect of Leaderboards, but if binging isn't helpful to learning a language, it should not be encouraged.
If you really want to have a Leaderboards feature, I think you should consider tweaks that can be implemented to discourage binging. Perhaps users could only gain a certain amount of leaderboard XP from new trees each day. Then, if you want to move up the leaderboard, you can only do so by using the workout feature. This would discourage users from trying to finish as many trees as possible in a single day, which is counter-productive to learning a new language. Instead, it would incentivize workouts, which solidify existing knowledge without completing trees.
I'm sure there are many other ways to implement Leaderboards in a way that discourages binging, but no matter how it is accomplished, I hope you consider doing so. Thank you!
Exactly. The Leaderboards encourages total binging and total gaming of the system. They are an abomination. How does one even opt out ?
I agree with you about the binge problem - very unhealthy for me (and probably anyone else with obsessive tendencies). It actually made me think of even leaving Duolingo for another way of learning a language. It's sad, but the only way I've found to opt-out of Leaderboards is to go to the privacy settings on your profile, and disable "make my profile public." This disables other features, but I can't find another way out of the Leaderboards. I'm still considering whether to do that or not.
I don't binge -- I jump around among my languages and learn the way I want to learn.
Last week, I reached the Ruby league, and I have to say: It is as empty as I thought. When I stayed in that league last night, the system simply sent me a message telling me that I'm still in the Ruby league -- so what?
In the current constellation of "my" Ruby League, there are several overperformers; I don't intend to compete with them.
I'll just jump around my languages as usual and disregard this League thingie. It's not worth it, really.
I also considered leaving the League system by disabling my public profile, but I do like my public profile; so I won't do that.
I'll just disregard what is happening on the League side of my screen, to the best of my abilities. ;-)
Happy learning! :-)
I would prefer to join a club (that my friends are all in) rather than have to be in Leaderboards. Can I quit Leaderboards and join my friends' club?
How does one access their clubs now? Have 0 interest in leagues as they do nothing to promote actual learning.
will it come to iphone? also I would like to stick with my club as well. can there be BOTH clubs and "leaderboards"?
I de-selected "Leaderboard" on my settings but I'm still on there. And why is my name and not my user name showing up there? I'm not interested in the competition and do not want my name on there. How do I get out of this?
The privacy issue is one I didn't think of before. I understand your desire to not want people clicking on your name and knowing about you, particularly if you don't have a public presence on the forums or elsewhere on Duo.
Maybe there could be an option whether to be public or not. Like Facebook etc.
That just stops your phone notifying you about standings changes. There is currently no setting to opt-out of this feature.
I really like the idea of these new leaderboards, but I can already see that they are not going to work for me in their current form. I have 50,000 XP and, apart from when I travel, I solidly slog away every day doing 50 XP or so (down from 70 now that the bonus XP for less mistakes in a lesson has gone). This week I am in the same position as srs013 in that I am testing out quite a bit in Chinese, so I might get out of bronze and into silver this week, but that won't last. In my current group of 50, there is me, someone with 13,000 XP, and 48 people with much less XP and able to obviously do heaps of testing out of levels as they start their new languages. So in their current form the leagues are going to be meaningless, even disheartening, to learners like me. I don't agree with comments here that it will even out in the end because there are always new learners coming along. Personally I would like to be in a league with other learners who have between 30,000-100,000 XP say. These would mostly be learners who have been around for a year or two, are committed to near-daily practice and, apart from when starting a new language or skipping the last of the repetition to test out of level 4, have limited opportunities to consistently add large amounts of XP. I think this would make leagues useful to a learner like me: something like League E for users with 0-10,000 XP; League D for 10,000-30,000; C for 30-100,000; B for 100,000-300,000; A for 300,000 +. Keep the bronze-silver-gold-sapphire-unknown top levels within these leagues. XP level leagues adds further gamification, I think it would be more meaningful to more users, certainly to me, and I think the higher leagues could morph into quite supportive groups. You would still have the problems in the lower XP rank though, with a new learner coming along solidly doing 50 XP/day in a new language being completely overwhelmed by the vast numbers of 500XP/day crowd. Maybe what needs to be considered is what XP is actually supposed to measure? If it is measuring overall experience with a language, then testing out shows you do have the prior experience with the language, so you should earn all the extra XP to reflect that. In this scenario it becomes clear why the current leaderboard system isn't working. But if XP is purely a measure of your duolingo learning experience, then a test out should probably be worth the same (or actually less) than a new lesson. And the leaderboards would be far more meaningful. Or maybe XP is supposed to measure just your experience of doing something on duolingo, whether it is proving your knowledge or learning something new. Again this is different, and trying to quantify the value of different experiences is always difficult and never perfect. In my own case, when I started Spanish on duolingo, I knew nothing of the language. So all of my Spanish XP reflects DL experience. But I have already studied Chinese elsewhere. My Chinese 4500ish XP is a reflection of my past learning and up to now I've learnt no Chinese on duolingo at all and am still testing out on levels to get to a point where I can begin to learn. While every one of my 3500ish Greek XPs was earned through sweating it out on DL. To me, my Greek XP is worth far more than my Chinese! By the way, I don't agree with srs013 that completing the repetition within a crown level should be worth less than moving on to other skills. I think this depends on the language being learned and how different it is from what you already know. When I was doing Greek I needed all the repetition I could get, and when I tried to add new skills to switch it up a bit I got overwhelmed very quickly.
Great points. I agree there is something off with the way it's designed. I think you touched on something important, saying, "Maybe what needs to be considered is what XP is actually supposed to measure?"
XP is certainly not a measure of language skill, unless we consider Duo's allotment of XP to be precisely correlated to learning (which is likely not the case).
I think it begs the question, "What are we actually competing about?" If we're just competing to see who can gain more XP and XP is not inherently correlated to anything other than time investment, aren't we just saying that it's a competition to see who has more free time? Which, I think it is apparent, has little to do with learning a language; you need to spend some time on it, but after a certain point, extra cramming in a short space of time probably isn't adding much value. I even recall someone linking research that Duo talked about on this subject at some point, saying (more or less, among other things) that long-term was more valuable than short-term cramming.
It seems that as the leaderboard is now, it is directly at odds with that philosophy; the implicit philosophy of the leaderboard is that short-term cramming > everything.
I'm not sure how best you would make a leaderboard that reflects something relating to learning though in general, without detracting from learning. I'm not so sure that large-scale competition in general works well for learning, unless the goal is for some to succeed and others to fail.
Personally, I think I'd much rather be competing with myself on something like learning, than trying to stack up to countless others, who have a widely varying amount of free time and natural language skill. But I'm not sure in what capacity exactly.
I just... the more I think about it, the more I feel that the leaderboards are antithetical to what this app's alleged mission is, on a fundamental level. I'm not sure minor tweaks are going to fix that.
Yep, I agree. I can see that for new users some form of competition may be good to keep motivation up until they find their rhythm and the learning becomes the reward. And I also think it would ne nice if their was a more formal acknowledgement of users who have really stuck with it and have, like, 300,000XP or whatever. For the rest of us the leaderboards are useless, and they have raised the question of what XP actually is. Nonetheless, I do like the idea, although it isn't because I actually want to compete with others. What I would like is to have a place to belong in the DL community and I sense they might morph into supportive groups in the future, or maybe make it easier to find like-minded learners to follow. The clubs didn't do it for me, they were too random and they were based around practising a specific language. The streak thing doesn't do it for me because you can freeze your streak and I prefer to see how many days I have actually learned and practised. What I would like is to be in a small community with similar learners, offering an encouraging word if someone starts falling behind, maybe setting some goals (finish that tree!) and encouraging others to achieve their goals, celebrating when they do. I would like to be in a group where we all do our 50XP or so each day and we all go up together. I think that would be motivating and just kind of ... nice. In the meantime though, I certainly agree with you: XP competition is counterintuitive to language learning and minor tweaks are not going to fix that.
Hi heather522497 and Jam890908,
Very interesting points, thank you for the interesting discussion! I just posted in the other thread my perspective on what experience and crowns are intended to measure, namely experience being time invested (important for solidifying language proficiency) and crowns for the breadth of knowledge (important for expanding language proficiency). This is why I think that testing out should grant less experience than it currently does, as it's a small time investment (experience) but potentially a large skill increase (crown).
Regarding the purpose of leaderboards and their utility, this is a bit more challenging. It really depends on the learner. I definitely agree that long-term investment is the most important part of learning a language. However, I was one of those people who has been investing 10+XP per day for years with occasional bursts of much more when I had a bit of extra incentive, spare time, or similar. Now with leaderboards I have personally found the extra incentive to spend 30 min to 1 hour per day working on improving my language proficiency. Therefore it's a net positive in my case, not because I think that leaderboards and short-term learning will help, but because it has increased my daily investment in learning (at least for the period, long-term stability is less clear).
On the other hand, I know that this is really just because of my personality, and I know it's not the same for others. Leaderboards can also be demoralizing, depending on your perspective. Thus I can understand the opposing points, even if it's not personally the case for me at the current point in time.
I do think that it might be useful to have the leaderboard be optional, or to have "classes" of leaderboards. However it's not clear to me how to make this work in practice. Your suggestions of more "support-group" style efforts are also interesting and worth further thought.
In the end, I think what we are seeing in this the variety of different learning styles, strategies, and personalities. It's a very interesting discussion, and it's not at all clear what the best solution is! Perhaps having opt-in rather than automatic enrollment or otherwise providing options that people can choose between as best fits their personality would be useful.
Hi srs and jam Ultimately, I think what I am looking for in leaderboards is a way to see my progress and know that I am going forward. Realistically they are not going to provide that. This discussion is making me realise how much I miss the old levels system; I found it very motivating to know I was working to go up a level and it was a real buzz to eventually reach a level 25. It was also a big buzz to finish the Spanish tree (the old one, pre-expansion) and to then keep it golden. But that is gone now too. We only have XP, which is just a big number and not very clear about what it is trying to measure, and we have crowns, which again is just a number and not clear about the value. I suppose I could count how many crowns I need to finish the trees I currently have going and keep a graph of my progress, maybe in excel. You can get a crown for doing anywhere between 4 and 20 lessons, depending on where in a skill you are, so their value isn't completely clear to me. And in Greek, where I am starting from scratch and am probably in the most need of motivation, I have 24 crowns and it can take me a really long time to earn another one because I need the repetition, so not sure how motivating that will be! But it is probably the only way to currently get what I might find motivating. Of course, this is part of the problem. I'm just talking about me, and DL is trying to cater for all types of learners who respond differently to different motivating factors. Am happy that the leaderboards are inspiring you srs! Cheers
Interesting analysis Heather, much of which I agree with. In general though the small community of supportive learners can be achieved through clubs with the one flaw you point out - they are language specific. For example we have a very active and supportive club for Spanish. People encourage one another and it provides a lot of motivation to keep slogging away. Obviously it has to be the right club with an active admin but we have a lot of the community spirit that you are describing including friendly xp competition, celebrating when someone does well in a week and so on. I am not sure that will ever happen on an anonymous leaderboard with no opportunity for interaction.
I think I am going to find it frustrating. I have 26,000 xp and a 291 day streak all from 1 language (Hungarian). I have no interest in learning any other language (i have seen some people with 30+). I average anything between 400-600 xp per week and like to think i am a genuine learner. I am quite competitive and have won our club weekly award almost every week. But will i be stuck in the lower leagues because of this?
How can i remove that damned leaderboard out of my device? I do not need any competition or any motivation except my own. I came here just to learn the languages i want to speak, no more.
I enjoyed it initially, and I advanced to the silver league, but then after a few weeks I lost interest because I will never reach the "high rollers" in order to advance to the next league. It is beyond me how anyone can reach over 1000 xp within one hour of the start of a new session, and ultimately nearly 40,000 in a one week session. I've lost interest in the competition but still enjoy learning at my pace.
Is there an upcoming option to opt-out of leaderboards? I don't appreciate being automatically opted-in. I don't like my username/profile picture being made public without my permission? And yes, I changed my profile picture to a stupid cat picture when I realised strangers could now see my avatar.
I also realise that if I post a comment here, people can see my username/avatar - but I've previously never commented - and never intended to, and I'm only commenting because these things were revealed without my consent anyway.
Can you also sort out the fact that we no longer get bonus XPs (0-5) for completing each lesson? How is it fair when someone else is getting 5 bonus XPs for every single lesson they do and myself and other users have no option to obtain these points. Also, I had to uninstall and reinstall the app just to get my club membership back. I hate that the leaderboard makes it so there is no access two clubs, which means you have no way to talk to anyone on Duolingo. Plenty of people out there won't go and read these discussion boards and figure out how to get access to a club back. They'll just be working with a wonky app that has no interactive feature with other users.
My family downloaded duolingo with the sole purpose of joining a club together. They can't join a club because of the leader boards so it was all just a waste of time unless there is a way to opt out of the leader boards. Please tell me there's a solution to this!
Same with me, but with a friend I barely get to talk to. I'm really disappointed.
This is probably a bit random. I am coming up to a 1000 days straight, a quarter of a million xp points, and I am level 25 in 3 languages. And I am obviously a massive fan of Duolingo! But I find on the Leaderboards, I am flat out to get into the promotion zone (although I have managed the last two). Please note, the leaderboard doesn't really interest me because learning the language is really my only focus. But I noticed something very interesting. In my zone, someone managed to score 1250xp in just on one hour, another person over 3500 in a day. Now, I think that I am pretty dedicated, but can manage only about 100 points an hour (about 6 min per lesson). Am I really that slow in relation to other people, or do they have some 'hack' that enables them to cheat the system (and themselves)? If so, the Leaderboard is not really an incentive, it is just a way to look impressive without doing a lot of work. If that is the case, the leaderboard is probably demotivating...defeating its own purpose.
As I read Helpful Duo's post, the answer is "yes". Be careful, because once you leave your club and switch to the leaderboard, you can't currently (and maybe (*) can't ever) get back to the clubs.
Yeah. You never know with Duolingo. They're a bit crazy sometimes. ;)
Yep, you have to uninstall and reinstall the app. It will save your points but you need to remember your password.
@HelpfulDuo, is this coming out for other versions, too? IOS devices and the web? I could see really enjoying it, but I currently only use the web version and an IOS device. Thanks for putting this in!
Please note the following is only a personal opinion, no flames please !
Well, this is one feature I do not care at all ! In the past, while using a different language learning app, I did pay quite some attention to rankings. Also the design (visual) of the app was such that it was not possible to ignore it.
In the process I got so addicted to it that I would push myself to do as many courses as possible to keep my position or advance to a higher one! I would even wait until late in the evening to do the courses and get the points. Let me say that this kind of stress took a lot out of my enjoyment of language learning and was one of the reasons I left that app (thought it was a secondary reason, the main reason being that I found the course quality to be quite low).
So, first, I would be so very grateful to the Duolingo development team if they consider the type of users as myself (that do not like this gamification of the learning process) and make the participation and display of leaderboards (either on the desktop or the mobiles) optional and configuarble, please !!!!
As to a point/development that helps me learn and also increases my participation is the Duolingo forums, especially the way that a question in the course is linked to a relevant discussion in the forums. This is absolutely brilliant and so incredibly enjoyable: instead of competition there is cooperation in learning !!!
Sadly that part (the forums) took me a long while to figure out :( I had completed a whole tree (most courses on a single level) before I realized that there was such a feature. The reason being that I started using Duolingo on an iOS mobile app. So, please, consider these changes to the mobile apps as high priority (at least for users such as myself): - bring the forums and indeed the link of a course question to a forum discussion - also the tips and grammar notes - great if that could include the Duolingo stories
I am sure there are a lot of ways that can increase the learning content and/or increase the cooperation of Duolingo users but that would make this already long post a whole lot longer :)
I have not expressed it before but let me say that I truly appreciate and I am extremely grateful to Duolingo for providing such an amazing learning platform and also to the community (the Duolingo team, the moderator and all users) for making this a true gem! Thank you !!!
fyi my current course is German with English as a UI language
I left my club when the new leaderboard feature arrived because I thought you had to do that in order to try it (my girlfriend got the feature first and we couldn't work out why I couldn't see it as well). Like many people I do NOT like the new leaderboard feature, but I can't find a way to leave it and rejoin a club. Is there a way to do this?
Having spent a bit more time reading the thread and various posts I can see that the answer to my question is 'no'. Will Duolingo add in a feature so that users can choose between the Leaderboard and Clubs? I really enjoyed my Club - it was sociable and I really benefited from all of the practice scenarios. Leaderboards may motivate competitive people, but they do not offer the support or additional learning opportunities that you get with Clubs. People have different learning styles/preferences so it seems a shame to remove Clubs when people enjoyed them and the code is already there. Why not provide the option so that users can pick Club or Leaderboard?
Sorry you lost access to your clubs. :( I read something about them working on a way to opt out of leaderboards, so maybe they'll try to re-integrate it at some point? I don't know why they'd make a restriction like that to begin with. I guess phones don't have a lot of UI real estate to work with.
Thanks. :) It would be nice to hear a definitive statement from someone at Duolingo so we.know what is going on. I assume they monitor these discussions since they initiated the thread..?
FWIW, this is the statement I was referring to. It's the one I saw in this thread, by SeanColombo, a Duolingo dev from the look of it:
"Thanks for your perspective.
Combo bonus was removed for other reasons related to the redesign and we are hoping to bring it back. Currently we're trying to find a clear design for it & hopefully bring it to all three platforms.
We are also working on a feature that will give a cleaner way of opting out of Leaderboards and other features. I would expect that to be on web first."
This system is very silly, because of the fact that people can just spam english lessons from their mother tongues which results in thousands of xp weekly, and what am I supposed to do, trying to learn without skipping subjects?
Leagues should at least be defined by language. Realizing this is great for groups of friends that are typically learning the same language. As is, it's merely who uses the app the most. Also, a more accomplished person will almost always dominate the leaderboard
I tried this for a few days, and to be honest I'd like to turn it off. I don't enjoy trying to "keep up" to maintain a place. Right now I'm back to Duolingo after a break, I finally finished my German tree and want to practice everything until I've got a pretty good grasp on it. The league is just distracting and encouraging me to test out of skills that I know really well at the beginning to level 5 instead of practicing things I've only just learnt. So it's encouraging me to do the reverse of what it's meant to ...
Overall I'm thinking about uninstalling the app and using the desktop site only. On the app I miss the tips, words tab, and stories (all of which are useful when revising and consolidating), not to mention easier access to the forum, and I won't have the distraction of a league that isn't helping me learn!
Hey! I'm on Android but would like to join a club that my friend made, but I can seem to access it! I hope that you guys are close to a resolution, so I could be in a club and leaderboard. 幸運を祈ります。 -Becky.Screech
Is there a problem with the leaderboard? I just got promoted to gold, and did a lesson to get XP on the board, and less than 5 minutes into the new cycle the top person already has 450xp. That should not be possible.
Currently one can gain lots of XP by testing out.
This will be fixed in the future (comment from SeanColombo 1 week ago):
Test outs. We're fixing this imbalance though. Should be live in a couple of weeks.
Couple of weeks..... was weeks ago. I just want to remove/opt out/get rid of the leaderboard--- WHY is it automatic??
But, why disable clubs, at all? I haven't been able to see it since I made my account.
So basically you've ignored the community and instead of creating social clubs that users can make for them and their friends you've made a completely soulless and meaningless "league". Honestly the other players on the "league" may as well be bot's. Very disappointing, uninstalling, gonna spend my money elsewhere.
I hate leaderboards. Useless. Everyone is practicing a different language, so very different difficulty levels! Makes absolutely no sense. Just want a join a club of the same language I'm learning and can't because of the stupid and mandatory leaderboards. I have no choice. Awful, awful feature. Clubs are way better. No-brainer
I couldn't agree more. I think leaderboards are useless and awful and that clubs are much better. I created a separate account to try leaderboards because my son got updated to leaderboards and it sounded interesting. I admin four different language clubs so leaderboards was not available to me on my Android phone with my existing account. I am very disappointed to learn that I will be forced to leave all of my clubs as of May 19 and will have no choice in what leaderboard I am placed in. Leaderboards do nothing to support my learning goals. With clubs I can network with people learning the same language and I can learn from the discussions and practice actual conversation with real people in a dynamic way. You really blew it on this one, Duo.
No, those are part of the Clubs, so you will no longer have access to them.
No. With the update my clubs disappeared and all there was was the leaderboard. I had to reinstall the app to even have access to a club.
I really don't like the new look on my android phone. It looks awful! The new animations and style takes away focus from the learning part. Please change back to the simple clean look that is on the web. Otherwise the app is awesome!
Sorry in advance for a very long message, but I think this is important to bring up.
Following my active participation in the leaderboards since their release a few weeks back, I would like to discuss their long-term prospects. In particular, there are several aspects which I am concerned will work counter to what I believe is the intended purpose, and thus it would be useful to understand what the plans are to address such situations.
Currently, the leaderboards are very competitive. This is likely exactly what was intended, as it drives up participation and contributes to the "gamification" of language learning. Indeed, it has increased my participation significantly, and I find it very useful. Other competitive learners are likely also benefiting. However, there are a few features that have me concerned:
- The system is open to exploits, allowing for people to game the system
- The system currently favours those who already have a reasonable background in a language, rather than people who are actively trying to learn a language
Why do I say this? For reference, this week I advanced from the gold to sapphire league, and the cut-off to remain in the gold league was 540 experience. That's an average of nearly 8 lessons per day, just to remain in the league! On the other hand, advancing to the sapphire league required roughly 3500 experience, which is nominally 50 lessons per day. Finally, first place in the league was over 20000 experience, which is supposed to be nearly 286 lessons per day. That's a lot, and sounds improbable. So what is really going on?
First, let's discuss the first place result. They may have had 20k experience in a week, but if you opened their profile, their total experience was ~7k. That is, they gained substantially more experience in one week than their profile claimed that they had ever accrued. I strongly suspect (but have not tested) that this is an exploit of the system. In particular, I expect that this is people who have started a language, done the placement test, and got a substantial amount of experience. I believe that they can then remove this language from their profile, start the language again, and get another huge chunk of experience. I may be wrong as I have no desire to test this as it seems like an exploit (#1 above), but it seems the likely explanation for what is going on. Otherwise, there seems to be some other exploit to get more experience in the leaderboard than you have in your profile. (I have screenshots to prove this anomaly.)
Exploits aside, I also mentioned that the system favours those who already have knowledge of language(s) rather than new learners (#2 above). This includes me, as I had already completed two language trees before the leaderboards began, but had not done most of the "crown levels". This gives a quick way to get a large chunk of experience, as you can "challenge" the crown levels for each skill. For the upper crown levels, this can give you several hundred experience for a single lesson, as you are "completing" 30-50 exercises at once. I am thus in the position where I can gain experience at a very advanced rate, which is why I have advanced from Bronze to Silver to Gold to Sapphire leagues sequentially each of the past few weeks. My ability to challenge the crown levels is a big advantage over someone just learning the language, and thus it puts me ahead, at least as long as I have crown levels left to challenge. I know that I'm not the only one doing this, as watching the Gold leaderboard last week and refreshing constantly made it very clear that people were jumping by hundreds of experience at a time rather than by 10 experience at a time.
For #1, I believe that this should be fixed, or else the leaderboards may end up full of people gaming the system rather than learning a language. For #2, this is more debatable. Perhaps this is intended, as in the longer term this will average out as everyone completes their crown levels. So this may just be a short-term scenario that will self-correct in the coming weeks.
My personal opinion is that #2 is not ideal, even though I am benefiting from it, and will continue to do so for the next weeks. I think instead that it is better to motivate learning new skills or new languages, rather than challenging what you already know. From this perspective, I would propose that the leaderboard is modified to be based on the following:
- Start from the number of lessons completed in a week
- Give a lower weight to multiple lessons of the same skill
- Give a higher weight to lessons later in the tree
For the first point, by "lessons" I mean the number of actual times you click on something and select "start". So a crown level challenge is 1 lesson, and doing an exercise of a skill is 1 lesson. Yes you can do the individual lessons instead of challenging the crown, but that still takes the same amount of time as doing a new lesson, so you're no longer heavily rewarded for already knowing a language.
The second point further reinforces that you should try new things. If you do each of the exercises in a crown level sequentially, then this is lower weight than doing individual exercises from multiple different skills. This should encourage learning, rather than repetition. Of course repetition is important in learning a language, so you should still get benefits from building on your knowledge of the same skill, but I think it should be worth slightly less. Otherwise people can still take advantage of the system by doing the "basics" lessons over and over to get quick and easy leaderboard advancement.
The third point is less clearly needed, but it may provide additional incentive to push further into the language tree and learn harder concepts, rather than focusing on the easier parts. Of course you don't want to discourage new learners, so this may need to be tested. However, you could imagine playing with the weights of numbers 2 and 3 in testing and determine a good balance.
Just to make sure it's clear, I really do like the new leaderboards, and I think that they are great for increasing the participation in language learning for competitive learners (such as myself). I just want to point out some of what I see as the current limitations of the system, and propose some possible ways to improve it going forward. I've been a big fan of DuoLingo for a few years now, a happy DuoLingo Plus subscriber, and hope to see this wonderful community continue to grow.
All the best, srs013
(P.S. I don't know why, but my leaderboard time zone seems to be 1 hour off of my local time zone. So leaderboards finish at 01:00 for me, rather than 00:00, which is unfortunate. There are some people who wait for the last hour to sneak into the top 10 hoping that others are no longer awake to compete, so this makes it a late Sunday evening for me to ensure I remain in the top 10.)
Exploiting the system is a real thing, but nobody is hacking the system. They're just starting a language they already know, doing a course test-out to get the massive amount of XP, removing the language, and doing it again. When they remove the course it will remove the XP from their profile but it will not lower their place on the Leaderboard.
People do not have to pay attention to the Leaderboards. I don't think it's ok to adjust the test-out weights just because Leaderboards have been introduced.
I personally do not like Leaderboards. If I pay attention to them, it will disrupt my habits and the way I learn. As with any feature, we can choose to utilize it or not.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I absolutely agree that the experience system should not be changed, and that the leaderboards should not influence anyone who doesn't use them as I understand their utility depends on each person. What I am proposing is to instead make the leaderboards depend not on experience but on "time investment" or some other metric which may be based on lessons, or may be something else. Either way, I definitely wouldn't want to impact non-leaderboard users with any such changes.
Thanks for your feedback! srs013
I think srs013 meant changing the weights for XP in relation to the leaderboard scores not in any visible way in relation to courses and lessons.
Or if not, that's what I thought of anyway when he mentioned weighting.
How I imagine it on a design level is something like: In your leaderboard score, it tells you what your position and amount of XP is (as normal). Then if you click on yourself on the leaderboard, going to your profile (or some other added section) it shows you the math of how what you have done is contributing to your total leaderboard XP that week.
So that way, it's all outside of the main usage of the app and contained within the leaderboard interface.
I agree that the two should not overlap. They need to stay separate in an interface sense, or the weaknesses of the leaderboard risk pushing themselves on those who are uninterested and undermining the strengths of the rest of the app.
Hi srs013! Thanks for the well thought-out post. I worked on Leaderboards & can respond to some of this.
The first part where it looks like the user had more XP in the leaderboard than on their account... we've seen this before and when we dug into it, the XP was legitimate, but the problem is a shortcoming in how we show profiles. Namely: we're only showing courses from the user's current UI language. For example if a German speaker is studying Spanish from German, then hops over to Japanese from English, only their JP from EN points show up (in fact, it just says Japanese and doesn't show the ui_language as being from English at all, which is another problem that needs to be fixed).
For the XP balancing, we agree that there is too big of an incentive to do test-outs at the moment. They should have more XP than lessons, but not nearly as much as they get now. We're testing a fix currently. If it does well, we'll roll it out carefully to Leaderboards users (ie: we don't want some users in a group of 50 to have one set of XP rules and others to be have different rules).
In regards to timezones, it ends for everyone at midnight UTC right now. We're aware that this is an issue and are discussing it (for example, user lifestyles and usage patterns differ even in the same timezone so midnight for one person is very different for midnight for others). Thanks for bringing up that this was an issue for you... this helps us prioritize things.
Thanks again for taking the time to write such a helpful, detailed, and positive post.
rebalancing XP is probably difficult to do in a satisfactory way. How about instead of that, to introduce something like LP points (Leaderboard points) that you get along your normal XP. You get one for every exercise you do, be it a normal exercise, a repetition or a test-out. So you can still get your 300-500 XP but will only get 1LP for a test-out. And you will only get 1 LP per day for an exercise that is already at maximum level no matter how often you do it during that day. This way, Leaderboards would actually encourage people to do varying exercises or a lot of practice exercises.
I know that a third digital currency to collect on Duolingo is a bit messy, but I got a feeling that only rebalancing XP will still give "wrong" incentives. Like to often redo exercises you already know well, and know you can finish fast.
As for timezones, I thought that people in one league were all from the same or close timezones, because everything else seemed unfair (and because it ended for me close to midnight). Shouldn't it be relatively easy to automatically organise the leagues like that?
Those are some interesting suggestions! Indeed as others have pointed out in other parts of this thread, it requires thought of what "experience" actually means. This is a question independent of the leaderboard, but in the current implementation of the leaderboard it is also key t here.
From my perspective, I see "experience" as a measure of how much time you have invested in learning a language. This is a a key metric, as the more time you spend with a language, the more proficient you will be. This is why I think it's useful to reduce the test-out experience boost. You will get more language proficiency benefit from doing the same type of exercise 40 times than doing a single test-out that replaces 40 lessons. Thus I think that test-outs should be worth roughly the same amount of experience as a normal lesson, or maybe a bit more to denote it as being more challenging, but not the full equivalent experience of doing all of the lessons individually.
This brings us to the second metric, which is crowns. I see this as being the measure of how thorough your knowledge is. You can see this as measuring your "skill level" in the sense of your knowledge of different tenses, vocabulary, and so on. Thus this is an independently important metric for learning. Currently doing a test-out gives you both experience and a crown, which is double-rewarding the effort. Instead I think it would be good to take both experience and crowns into account when determining the overall proficiency of a user with respect to a language.
As to how this should be interpreted by the leaderboard, this is a more challenging question. I think you want to reward both time invested (important for solidifying language fluency) and diversity of new skills (important for expanding language fluency). Perhaps the leaderboard score could be a combination of experience and crowns gained in a week. That does pose an additional challenge, as crowns are finite while experience is infinite (in the current implementation), so at some point a very experienced learner who has completed the full tree can only gain experience. However perhaps this is still a positive step forward to handling the leaderboard scoring system using the existing learning metrics and without adding a third.
Finally, regarding the leaderboard end-point, this is more difficult than purely the time zone of the individual. People of different ages and lifestyles (never mind people who have to work night shifts, for example) will have very different times where they are active. Thus grouping them together is also not ideal. I do think that timezone grouping is probably better than "everyone in the world has a deadline of UTC midnight", but it's still far from a perfect solution. Sean mentioned that they do have some knowledge of when people start to collect experience after the start of a new week, so maybe they can use that to define start/end times of the leaderboards for different groups. That will still take some testing, as there may be other problems with such an approach that I haven't thought of.
Thanks for the continued interesting discussion!
Actually, I had another thought of how to solve the issue of exploiting the system, and just thought of a much simpler solution that touches nothing but the way how people are placed in leagues : At the end of the week when the leagues finishes, the percentage of XP gained by doing test-out lessons is calculated for every user and for the next week, people with a similar percentage get be in the same league.
This way, people hunting for maximum XP by all means will compete with like-minded people, and be up for a real challenge. And people not doing that, won't be discouraged by those inflated numbers.
Thank you very much for your reply! It's great to hear from the development team and to get your personal perspective.
It's interesting to hear about the UI language difference and how that is likely what I was observing. Thanks! I'm still surprised that someone can get 30,000 experience in a week, but indeed it is possible if they have proficiency in multiple languages and did the [other languages] --> English starting test for multiple languages in the same week. That would explain what I saw, as then the UI language would always only show that they are learning English rather than that they are learning English from several different languages. It's good to know that this has been investigated!
I'm glad to hear that you are trialling alternative test-out experience systems. I look forward to seeing the results!
I do think that time zones are important for leaderboards, as there will always be people hoping to sneak in at the last moment. That said, I understand that this is a very difficult problem to solve. As you rightfully pointed out, even within a timezone, different lifestyles will still make it impossible to find a “fair” solution for all. Even the selected ending day of the week can be contentious depending on different customs in different countries around the world. There is probably no perfect answer; I’ve typed up several proposals but removed them all as every one of them will upset some group. Maybe midnight UTC is the global solution least likely to cause offense as it’s sufficiently arbitrary. Either way, it’s very positive to know that you are discussing this and trying to find a solution.
Thank you again for your reply! I really appreciate that someone from the development team took the time to read and consider my feedback, and to let us know what is ongoing behind the scenes. I look forward to the next updates!
Best wishes, srs013
I think in the long term things will average out. I managed to get several thousand points in a few days just by maxing out all the levels near the start of my language tree (good motivation really.) Previously I was only going to go back after I'd completed the whole thing. Time wise, I think 11pm would be a better end point. If your exploit does work, it should be fixed, but they're only cheating themselves eh? Not really worth it for a measly 20 lingots that can't be used anywhere.
Yeah, I also think that this situation may resolve itself over time as the ability to easily gain huge amounts of experience by challenging crown levels is used up. I still think it would be good from the educational perspective to provide more incentive to practice or work on a multitude of skills rather than a subset thereof, but that's just my opinion, and I accept that others may think differently.
Regarding the exploit, they are indeed only cheating themselves, and the 20 lingots is really useless at this point (I have nearly 8000 already anyway). It's more that if it's only a couple of people like now, then it doesn't really matter. However if there are too many people who want to be up high on the leaderboards at any cost (rather than by learning), then we may one day end up with leaderboards full of people with hundreds of thousands of experience per week using such a trick. I thus think it would be useful to remove this possibility, but maybe I'm too pessimistic.
Thanks for your feedback! srs013
I do agree with most of your points, exploits should be removed. In terms of pushing on, this should be encouraged too. I think that the quickest place to pick up points is level 3 -> 4. Will generally remember/understand, and lots of the sentences are still composed by clicking. 4->5 has lots of writing (although the best level for engraining the words).
That's funny, I noticed the exact same thing :) people with less overall experience than their current weekly progress. I took screenshots either, and was looking for a way last week to flash them in public... but finally gave up, not worth my time. Anyway, you might be very competitive for being disturbed by people sneaking at the very last minute of the week. I think the hour is basically midnight GMT, that's reason why they match you up with people who start playing at the same hour. I'm in Canada, and it stops around 7 PM here. I bet you're in Germany or close. So yeah, sure, I try time to time to steal some spots at the very last minutes :D but no worries, I'm not in your league, way not... with my 5 poor lessons/day during my daily subway commute, averaging a very middle tier weekly score, I can't pretend any promoting ranks, even at the bronze level :D I would not say, it makes this feature completely useless... I'm checking it every day, so in a way, it helps me to surpass myself. I was more overwhelmed by the Clubs, which were basically pee contest. Here, it's stupid the same way, but it's also a bit more random. I'm all for the XP scalability. More lessons done per day, more rewards. More complicated ones, more rewards. A bit more points for completing a lesson, after having reached your daily goal. No points for showing off your existing knowledge, you valid lessons, that's already a great reward, but you shouldn't get XP for that. Have a nice one mate... I'll be waiting for you to fall asleep this Sunday to punch a bunch... :) :) :p
I created a private club,but becz of the majority of my invited friends being on the Android platform, they can’t join it & are being forced into leaderboards they have no interest in! PLEASE can’t you fix this issue & give Android users the option to be in clubs?? This is one of the main reasons I joined Duolingo so that my friends, both close & abroad, can get together to practice our French!!
I am so confused. So it is an issue/glitch? I used to be a web browser user until I got the Duo app. I got the app because I heard there was a clubs tab, and I would be able to keep in touch with a friend. However, when I got the app, all I got was a leaderboard tab added (I had to delete my old account because it wouldn't update my age). I'm very disappointed because Duo even says that clubs are available for iOS and Android users...however they arent...?
So I want to join a club and don't really want this feature but I have this feature instead of clubs tab, any ideas?
My friends and I we have the same problem. I created a club and now anyone can't join. I'm very disappointed.
I'd really like to be able to join a club as I benefit more from that than a (to me) meaningless leaderboard function
I am completely done with this leader board ridiculousness. We are one day in and the top ten all are 1000+ Number 1 is at 7K and the next four are at 3-4K. (We are competing for the next step - Sapphire ) It's my own fault for getting sucked in. I've figured my own way to game the system .... but I feel like an idiot even wasting time doing it. Do what you guys want, but while I really like Duolingo in general, I'm done with this leader crap.
Seriously how has the top competitor on my leader board gotten 21980xp!!!
DUO give us back our CLUBS!! Not everyone likes this new league feature. THERE'S NO interaction in it with others which helps you to learn new language.
I was mostly just annoyed at being added to leaderboards without my consent until my cousin wanted me to join his polish club. And I can't. And now, I'm kind of upset. I don't care what any of these other people I don't know are doing, it has nothing to do with me. I want to spend time with people I actually know, and now I can't.
I hear you are "working on it." I sure hope so. I also hope the next update doesn't delete half my progress like updates past.
Leaderboards mean nothing to me! I want to create a friend group with specific people so we can motivate and encourage each other to practice every day! Please bring groups back!
Yes! Yes! Groups/clubs are the only reason I chose Duolingo! We use them to chat in the language we are learning (Spanish), to encourage one another, and for some friendly competition. There is a petition somewhere in this feed to keep the clubs. If I find it, I’ll post it again.
My wife was removed from my club and put in the leaderboards and now can't get back into our club. This update is so stupid. Why didn't you guys make it to where users could be in a club and on the leaderboards? This is ridiculous!
To be honest I don't like the new leaderboard update please bring back the groups. The groups are the best! @helpfulduo
These leaderboards (that I learned about two days ago) have sparked a great darkness inside of me. I must continue to study. Gold or Bust baby! Even if it means picking up another language.
Also, in the future if there could be leaderboards or leagues for specific languages alongside the generic 'all language one' would be sweet.
I created a club two days before I updated to the latest version of the app. I keep getting notifications that people have joined my club, and when I click on that notification itself, I am taken to a version of the app with 5 tabs at the bottom of my screen where I can access both clubs and leaderboards.
But when I come back to the app later, I cannot see that tab for clubs, and it's back to the version of the app with only 4 tabs at the bottom -- and I have no way to access clubs.
What should I do?
It takes only a couple of minutes to do a lesson early on in a tree. It takes much longer to do a more advanced lesson that you actually have to think about. There are only so many hours in a day. Therefore you cannot be competitive on leader boards if you are challenging yourself. There is no way to get thousands of xp per week if you are working at a higher level. Thus even if I do as much as possible at the level I am at, I need to go back and do 10 or 20 "the boy is eating bread" type lessons.
I wanted to join a club, but I have no clubs tab on my android. I'm definitely not paying for plus of you cant keep simple features working.
What if I simply don't care about your league and get annoyed at the notifications?
I was not in a club because I don't care about this part (I would maybe care about the club were it available on the website).
Stop enforcing your stupid ideas on us, the app is great apart from that but you're just ruining my experience.
I'm seriously considering trying other services.
You can turn off Leaderboards notifications by going to your profile on Android, then clicking Settings then scrolling to the notification section and looking for Leaderboards.
I really enjoy this update so far!
Although I wish you would compete against 50 user's learning the same language as you do! I feel like people cheat the system and play on an easy language to get a lot of points, (when they speak it fluently).
Thank you for your amazing app, Simon.
So, are clubs gone? I never got to try them but it sounds like it was a nice way to build community.
They are still around on iOS and yes, they are a great way to build community whilst still having the competition and support of learning the same language as the other club members.
So give them back, already! Why is this so hard for you guys to understand?
What would seem to be a fun competition,has become a grind and an exercise as to how best to game/scam the system. Very disheartening to say the least. You get 7 days.....Ok. I have a screen shot of my Gold League with 6 days 21 hours and 42 minutes left -- that means that only 2 hrs and 18 minutes have passed since beginning .... 138 minutes total. Yet we already have a leader with 3230 XP -- that's about 43 seconds per lesson for well over 2 hours. Somethings going on.... I guess people are using the testing out scam I've been reading about. It also seems that as you go from Bronze to Silver to Gold.... you get more and more of a concentrated group of people who know how to game/scam the system. I can only wonder what the top ten people had- point wise- who made it from Sapphire to Ruby.
Leaderboards just lumps anyone in a bunch of 50 people. Not one other person is studying the same language as me. Now no examples or practice in the clubs environment. This is simply about who gets the highest xp (overall), which is documented as not the best way to learn (in your own documentation). My suggestion, at least group people learning the same language together. Expand it to be about more than just about how many xp one can get. Bring back some way of encouraging practice outside the set exercises. Reward the people who learn the most and contribute...
I agree. I found the former club structure much better because it was in some way a community.
Now I'm feeling isolated among all those "competitors" with whom I can't communicate at all (for example, telling them that I did so many xp today to re-gain my French owl, and that they shouldn't worry I will stay that way ;-)).
In a way it's really sad and empty...
Just adding my two cents in here, so hopefully you all are still reading this. I personally don't care for the addition of leagues. What I mainly care about is the loss of clubs. I was thinking about Duolingo and I realized that I could get my Mexican-American family to all join one club so we could all learn Spanish together. The older generation got to learn it but the youngest ones missed out. I was really looking forward to having a small group to compete with and help each other learn and chat about things, especially now that as adults, we don't get to see each other as much.
Long story short, why not both? I miss the features from Clubs, so I guess put another tally in favor of bringing them back.
@DNLarralde THIS SO MUCH!! Exactly what I was trying to do but with French, and then Duo totally screwed it all up by discontinuing Clubs! :( Very frustrating. Without them, my family & friends who started learning/brushing up on the language, most have now slacked off or quit altogether. I really wish we had our club back!
I never liked the leaderboard approach. I feel it demotivates more people than it motivates. Most people won't make it anywhere near the top of the leaderboard. So, what we're really doing is telling the majority that they aren't good enough, that their efforts are meaningless. Imagine a student trying their hardest every week and actually doing a good job, but their teacher tells them their work is worthless compared to the rest of the class. That's not how you motivate a student to continue or do better. That's how you get them to drop out.
With enough defeat, a person becomes reluctant to participate and eventually gives up. Yes, a person needs to be self motivated to learn something as difficult as a language, but we're not doing them any favors by telling them their efforts are nothing compared to the efforts of others. We're only adding to the weight of their self doubt. Students need to be given a standard and awarded for reaching that standard, but the standard that leaderboards set is guaranteed to be unachievable by most people.
I agree. I have experienced the League system for four days now, and this is what I see:
1) I am an independent learner. Sometimes I just do my 10 XP minimum just to keep in contact with my languages, and sometimes I "take off" because I feel like it.
Thinking that I, as that uninterested competitor, might stress out other people who do care about their position in the league and the possible win of Lingots, causes a lot of stress to me.
2) This is exacerbated by the fact that some of "my" languages aren't new to me; I just do them for fun on Duolingo, and to keep practicing. Thinking that on that basis, I am "competing" with others to whom all their languages might be totally new, increases my stress immensely.
3) Now that I've been among the 10 top people in the Bronze league, I was moved to Silver. But this League does not include those that I originally competed against. So -- even if I took the competition idea seriously -- there is no ongoing competition. It's just a rat race each week, involving people who I don't know at all and who I can't get to know (as was possible in the Clubs).
4) I get messages when I lose a position (that I'm not interested in), and it seems I can't opt out of getting these messages.
4) It seems I can't opt out of the League. So, even though I decide to not pay attention to what's going on there, I will keep stressing out other people just because I keep on learning the way I do.
Because I'm a language freak. I jump around among my languages, and I enjoy doing the exercises, but I don't feel this should be something that other people, who seriously learn a new language, should be forced to compete against.
Hopefully the Duo team will listen to some of these very erudite and coherent points.
i want back MY board, with MY friends, not this f.. league. I have no idea, who are those people, but i see them, inspite of my wil. Is there ANY option or possibility to CHOOSE/to DECIDE?
You can turn off notifications for the leaderboards in your profile settings in the app. It's "Leaderboards" between "Friend Passes Me" and "Streak Saver".
That turns off notifications, but won't we still be competing with others who have different goals & motivations? Such as "I'm reviewing things I mostly know and they're really trying to learn something new"?
Ooooor you could be someone who doesn't care to compete and just focuses on your learning? I don't see the leader-board as a guaranteed cancer to someone's learning. If you're into the competitive part of this new feature, then by all means, have fun with it! Be prepared to be out-matched though, by someone who has more time, more motivation, and like to exploit the xp gains. It's common fact/sense that anything that has a leader-board involved with it, will have a lot or few people that are better than you. It's apart of life.
I guess my comment only pertains to those cursed with competitiveness or a strong drive to meet and beat socially set standards. I think most people are this way, and it's not something we can turn off. Even with noncompetitive people in mind, the leaderboards are still either demotivating or meaningless to most. I still feel they do more harm than good. I don't think leaderboards should be the main way Duolingo keeps their students motivated.
There are more effective ways for Duolingo to drive their students, but they are being forgoed for leaderboards. This is the problem. I found the award of combo bonus XP for doing well on lessons to be very effective. I wish the system was extended to the desktop site and Strengthening sessions, but it was instead removed completely, apparently to make leaderboards more fair.
I also appreciated Clubs. They allowed us to join with friends, classmates or people in our area, or make new friends. Clubs were also relatively small. This made them much better at playing on group mentality, but Clubs were also apparently removed to make room for pure leaderboards.
We had the option to opt out of Clubs if we found the competitiveness to be distracting. The leaderboards we have now don't really allow that. We can turn off notifications, but our performance compared to others is still broadcasted and too easy to accidentally view.
Very well said, particularly in relation to clubs. In our current club we have members from all over the world, Holland, Serbia, South Africa, United States, England and so on. We support and encourage one another in learning a language. There is friendly competition on the club leaderboard with genuine congratulations to the winner each Sunday. What provides the best motivation to keep learning for our members is the supportive interaction on the club page and the ability to try and converse with the language you have learned so far no matter what level you are at.
I share your concern. Maybe I'm only one of a few and am cursed with a combined competitive spirit and difficulty ignoring things, but for me, the leaderboard is hard to ignore completely and I'm concerned that it will, over time, provoke me to burn myself out.
I've never gotten around to checking for a formal diagnosis (pretty ADD thing to do I suppose), but it's highly likely I have ADD and I'm pretty sure it factors in, though I'm not sure I could summarize the impact easily. I know that motivation is a very fragile thing for me, to be handled with extreme care.
But I don't think I'm particularly unique in that way. It just may be slightly more fragile in some ways than for some others. I'm pretty sure most people struggle with motivation in one way or another.
The question in that regard becomes, "Do the leaderboards help with motivation overall?" For some, it reportedly does. But that's also in the short-term. I don't think it's been implemented long enough to gauge the long-term.
And if there's one thing I know about motivation from my own life, it's that initial excitement can be a great way to make progress on a skill and get you through the "I know nothing" phase where you feel completely inept, but eventually you reach a point with any skill where the gains don't feel as "big" anymore and it's at that point where you need to be able to stay out of your head about it and focus on small steps over a long period of time. Otherwise, it's really easy to get caught up in just how much there is to learn and want to give up. (I'm not saying this is necessarily how it is for everyone, but it's been my experience.)
Similarly, I'm concerned that the leaderboards can have the impact of widening the mental scope of how some of us look at learning a language, causing us to see our daily gains as even smaller than they really are, by comparing ourselves to others who are doing more.
As an example, I was doing 50xp daily for a while (the daily goal termed "Insane"). This framing caused me to see it as impressive how much I was doing in a day. But if I look at this framing in comparison to what the leaderboard scores are like even as low as the Silver category, it feels like the 50xp daily goal should be called "Decent."
I think the biggest question mark for me is I wish I understood the why behind leaderboards as a choice for motivating people. It doesn't make sense to me and I can at least try to respect a concept if I understand it, but I'm not getting why this is supposed to be an effective help to learning. In the short-term I see it, sure. But long-term? I'm struggling to see how it will hold up.
Well said, especially how the gains don't feel that big anymore. "Insane" doesn't feel insane when it's only halfway up the lowest tier of the leaderboards. It's a shame, because 50xp is actually really good.
They have leaderboards in Memrise and there are two kinds, everyone in the course, and your friends you can add to see how you do against them. I rarely look at the public ones, it can be daunting (for lack of a better word) but the "friends" one is much smaller, like the club's board and that is definitely motivating. The problem I see is the useful club feature is the private, club posts. They are more personal and private than the public searchable forums and we share tips and videos and links. That will be gone - the only great feature.
Thanks for your perspective.
Combo bonus was removed for other reasons related to the redesign and we are hoping to bring it back. Currently we're trying to find a clear design for it & hopefully bring it to all three platforms.
We are also working on a feature that will give a cleaner way of opting out of Leaderboards and other features. I would expect that to be on web first.
I do hope you all are considering the social aspect of Duolingo. My friends and I use the Club feature to converse in the language we are learning. It’s a great way to practice written dialogue in a new language. Also we like the privacy feature of the club so we know our conversations are not being broadcast over the app for the public to see. Please please consider this before taking clubs away on 5/19/19. Thank you!!
@TownsenDu - see my other comment to you. Privacy is an incredibly important aspect of the club feature. It is a safe space for people to try out their Spanish in a supportive environment. You will not have that with leaderboards. That is why we have set up a safe group outside of Duolingo for the reasons you have set out. Good luck! And if you find yourself without a club home, come and join us!
I'm going to miss my Welsh Club where 3 of us regularly do the Word Smash etc etc, even though I'm probably not as far up the tree as the others. Does this mean we're not going to have this facility (I don't care for Leaderboard, but I think it's silly to have people in the club who are only active for a few weeks then are in with 0 XP blocking the club getting others who want to chat Welsh in on the chat. I would like a group for those wanting to chat about the questions given, with ability to reply more than once in Welsh.
Thank you for listening and clearing things up. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the combo bonuses and looking forward to the new features.
Perhaps a club leaderboard or group leaderboard would be an interesting feature. Also, this all or nothing aspect of being required to be in a leaderboard would be better IMO as an and/or feature - having leaderboards as an option which you can opt out of, but doesn’t take away your ability to also be a member of a club or similar.
The opt-out feature can't come soon enough!!!!! And how can we know when they arrive? Frankly spending time haunting fora hoping against hope that something is about to improve is also demotivating, in addition to taking up time I would rather spend learning.
I don't agree with you. Before charging a rage on me, please read what I wrote till the end.
1) There are many competitions in a school and participating in it or not is totally your choice. When you decide to participate you should keep in mind that if you lose, you should not feel bitter about it. Now, that does not mean that everyone else who arent participating are losers or underachievers. Competitions are called competitions for a reason. If you can't accept loss, don't participate in the first place. Don't throw daggers at others winning against you.
2) League has a similar idea. You can deactivate if you don't want to be a part of it. There are people who feel appreciated when they see their names in top 10 of the leagues. They feel like their hard work is paying off, not only in learning a language but knowing that all their gained XP's are getting counted somewhere.
3) People who are a part of the league and who wish to be on top should take efforts to be there. If you cant work for hours to gain XP's then it's your problem. Don't blame others for working hard. These people are spending hours and hours to keep themselves in the competitions and work towards a set goal.
4) When I am in a league I see people on top and I appreciate their hard work and determination. They all start from scratch and earn those XPs which is worth appreciating. On the other hand, I see people having low Xps and on the bottom of the chart - I simply don't think anything about them. Why? because I don't care. These people have decided to work less for that day which is totally understandable, i don't judge them or call them losers or anything. Just because a person earns less XPs for that day does not mean he/she is stupid. The fact that these people think that they are 'losers' is making them less motivated and ''reluctant to participate and eventually give up''. I am in leagues and I don't always make it to the top. So what? do I give up? absolutely not. I see this as a battle with my laziness, my procrastination, my disability of not working towards my goal etc. which indirectly makes me more motivated towards being amongst those top tens.
I love leagues and I will feel extremely sad if duolingo removes this feature.
Most people won't make it anywhere near the top of the leaderboard
This sentence is false, contrary to common sense. I created an Excel sheet where the formulas are as follows
Bronze = 0.8*Bronze + 0.1*Silver
Silver = 0.7*Silver + 0.2*Bronze + 0.1*Gold
Gold = 0.7*Gold + 0.2*Silver + 0.1*Sapphire
Sapphire = 0.7*Sapphire + 0.2*Gold + 0.1*Ruby
Ruby = 0.9*Ruby + 0.2*Sapphire
After running the formulas 104 times (this means two years because each time is one week) the values you get are very surprising: Bronze 3.24%, Silver 6.48%, Gold 12.92%, Sapphire 25.80% and Rubi 51.55%
Bronze is much less than 1.
Bronze = 0.8*Bronze + 0.1*Silver
0.2*Bronze = 0.1*Silver
2*Bronze = Silver
If Silver=0.0648 then Bronze = 0.0324, the number my sheet calculates.
Ruby is not greater than 1.
Ruby = 0.9*Ruby + 0.2*Sapphire
0.1*Ruby = 0.2*Sapphire
Ruby = 2*Sapphire.
If Sapphire is 0.258 then Ruby is 0.516 and my sheet calculates 0.5155 after 104 iterations.
I think there are some flaws in your maths. For starters, your formulas need to show the dependance on time - i.e. Bronce (n) = Bronce (n-1) * 0.8 + Silver (n-1) * 0.1; Silver (n) = Bronce (n-1) * 0.2 + Silver (n-1) * 0.7 + Gold (n-1) * 0.1; .... Ruby (n) = Saphir (n-1) * 0.2 + Ruby (n-1) * 0.9
But yes, easy to see that with increasing n Bronce will get depleted and Ruby inflated. However - I think this is by design, given that at this stage everybody starts in Bronce.
Obviously - above is only true in a closed system without external impact (which is not a reasonable assumption). New members will come in and always start in Bronce - increasing the membership there.
But yes, as long as they don't modify the promotion / demotion zones the majority will at some stage end up in Ruby as long as the demotion zone is smaller than the promotion zone. It is however easy to change that, and I suppose they will, as soon as there are for their purposes "enough" people in Ruby. As soon as they make the zones same size, the ratios will be frozen from that point in time.
E.g. - just increase all promotion and demotion zones to 10 participants - i.e. 20% and the ratios won't change anymore over time.
It's about the inner-league competition, which apparently is encouraged given that there's a "promotion zone" and a demotion zone:
You get 50 semi-randomly assigned persons put in each bucket. If you take two such bucket, one may be full of people slacking off, while the other is hyper-motivated, and yet you'll get 10 "winners" in each bucket. Nevermind that all members of the second bucket are doing better than all members of the first. How is that fair? (see also Simpson's paradox)
Yes, it will sort itself out over time, but that's a poor consolation for those who care about these things.
At least that feature apparently doesn't make it onto the web version, which works quite well even on mobile, so for now there's a way to avoid the leaderboard without disabling the public profile (the other way to opt out).
The probability that one bucket of randomly assigned persons has 50 persons with above average motivation is 1 in 2^50 (let alone hyper-motivated). The same is true for 50 persons of below average motivation (let alone slackers).
Anyway, in the long run the people in the bottom 10% of the Ruby league will be among the 48.45 and 53.61% of the population. And the people in the top 20% of the Sapphire league will be among the 43.29 and 48.45% of the population. That's not very competitive.
As I have a full time job doing 5 lessons a day is already the maximum where I can learn productively.
Even in the lowest league the amount of XP is gained is already way too high to keep this level up during a decent amount of time.
Maybe removing testing out to count in the competition. So people have to do at least "real" lessons to gain XP in the league. Otherwise many people will just pile up a huge amount of XP without learning anything.
I think the one thing that is clear is that everyone here on DL is different, so do spare a thought for those working hard trying to juggle our differences and demands, what they see in the stats, and the need for more new users (=more advertising =more money =more staff =more features for us). And DL remains free without needing to share our email content, contact lists or Amazon purchase history with other parties. Awesome! Thank you Duolingo!
Clubs didn't work for me. Maybe I didn't try hard enough to find a club like redsed's (wow! sounds great), but I am lucky enough to have other ways to practise my Spanish and Chinese in the real world so I wasn't looking for the practice aspect, just the motivation.
Speaking of motivation ... this forum has made me evaluate my own experience with Duolingo and what does and doesn't work for me, and thanks to srs, jam, jrarrmy, cervezas and others for helping with that. I am a serious user, but prefer to use my phone because I spend so much time in front of a computer, it is a nice break to flop on the couch with my phone and the green owl. I do wish I could access the Spanish word list from Android sometimes, but I can always go through a browser, and actually what I wish for is a Greek word list, anywhere, please! Yep, everyone is different!
I do also miss the combo bonus XP - it is a buzz to get 30XP from two lessons and if I was getting close that would always make me slow down and focus more - so am pleased to hear that is returning. I also miss the old levels, although I noticed the other day they are still there on the desktop version. I used to monitor my levels and refer to the very helpful post by Fantomius (it correlates XP with level) every other week. I found it very motivating to keep me trying for a bit more XP, especially as I neared the next level.
As I am looking for a way to both set goals and monitor progress, and keep motivated, I have now set up a spreadsheet for myself. I have estimated XP from skills/crowns/average lessons and how much strengthening practice I usually do to set goals for 2019, with weekly estimates to help keep me on track and overall goals of 80% Spanish, 40% Chinese and 25% Greek trees complete. So now I will just plug in my crowns and XP each week and my graphs will update to show me if I am slipping behind or creeping ahead - obviously I am hoping to be ahead of my estimates by the end of the year! (Yep, I am one of those people who loves fiddling with spreadsheets and numbers - nerdy, I know). I will need to fine tune my XP estimates a bit at some point because the number of lessons in a skill in various languages varies such a lot - that's why I am monitoring crowns too - and also because we don't know how earning XP is going to change. Obviously it is a bit of a work in progress. Nonetheless, it is already motivating me as I will be away soon for a week and will stop DL, so trying to get ahead now whereas before I would have just stopped for a week. I have also taken the levels system and extended it for myself to level 40/100,000 XP and will go back to monitoring my levels too. Also, I am moving to another city in March, and once I settle will try to organise an event or two and see how that goes. Basically what I am attempting to do is take what I can get from DL and make it work for me. So, it's all good (for me, at least!)
Finally, I hope that the rejigging of XP, and any other measures, isn't influenced by the desire to make leaderboards work. We can see the interest in making XP measure something more meaningful than it currently does, and that maybe some users (OK, me) would respond well to various other measures being available to help monitor progress and stay motivated. Maybe the current XP is actually a meaningful and motivational measure for individuals, but not suitable for comparative use. Whatever, the measures should come first and be meaningful in their own right, and only then be applied to display/motivation tools like leaderboards.
Have fun everyone :)
I agree. Its foolish that people who have access to clubs, can't get access to leaderboards!
Why can you not have a club and be in a league? I do not understand why they would be exclusive of each other. I also do not understand why so many features are either mobile only or web only. Is it that difficult to make things available on both?
I don't really care for the League option. It would be nice to have an option to communicate with others to share information and experience other than the Forum.
Also, I don't actually appreciate people saying that someone who uses Duolingo on the PC is a more serious learner. It's rude and untrue. The difference is, Duolingo on the phone or tablet is more convenient for those who don't want to schlepp a laptop around or sit in front of the PC the entire time. I don't use the PC to use Duolingo. I use my phone or tablet. Whenever I get the chance, I am on Duolingo. I practice during break times at work, when I'm at home. I used Duolingo when I was admitted into the Hospital last year. Right now, I'm learning Japanese and Spanish, and even incorporate the languages I learn in my everyday life, such as writing my work notes in the language I am learning. So, please, don't assume just because someone uses a phone or tablet to learn that they are not as serious. And by the way, you have the option to select the pre-generated words or ignore them. Everyone learns at their own pace and their own liking. What matters is that they are trying to learn something new. Whichever tool they use, it's up to them, just as it's up to you guys who use PC / Laptops.
As an added note, an application will always be different on the PC than on the phone or tablet. The one will always have something the other does not. I don't know why people are haranguing about it. Personally, I am very thankful for Duolingo, in whatever fashion, for providing free learning. I would have had to pay a lot of money for classes to learn another language. Whatever they do, they do it to improve the learning experience. And I hope they continue doing so.
200 xp (four people) within 8 minutes after starting a new leader board series is just wrong...how does this even happen?
How can I just turn OFF Leaderboards? I got sucked into them, am now up to sapphire,and would just like to know how to simply disengage myself from it. The answer of -- "Just don't hit the shield button" is not sufficient. IMO, for many---myself included-- it has just been one rat race exercise in gaming the system. It absolutely encourages total bingeing. I also find I no longer take the time I want to slowly go through a lesson because I'm thinking..."Hey, I just dropped out of the promotion group, let's get some points." (yes, ridiculous on my part.) Listen some may like it, but at the very least you should have some functionality that lets people disable/opt out/turn it off. Can't be that hard. I see that there has been some tinkering with Leaderboards--- I saw that one no longer sees people with thousands of xp within hours of a new round. I also see that the demotion section has been made smaller. Both these items were quite demoralizing . For me though-- I just don't want to see that Leaderboard shield at the bottom of my screen. I don't want to know it's lurking there...I just want to turn it off. Any assistance here is appreciated.
I never joined a club while using DuoLingo, and a few months ago, I got the Leaderboards, but I never cared about it.
Now I joined a Spanish class and our group made a DuoLingo Club and I spent HOURS trying to join, only to find out I can't. This is one of the most stupid things ever. I have no problem with the Language content of the app and the site, I still like it, but how come you can't fix something like this?! Why can't I joint a club? Why can't I opt out of Leaderboards, which are plain useless. Why do I have to spend hours on forums searching for an answer for this? There are some really old comments here with the same issue, so when will you fix this?
I DONT WANT LEADERBOARDS, I want to join my friends club. Why cant I do this?
I'm an iphone user and i've lost my club tab in exchange for leaderboards. If I have to chose one, I'd like clubs, but as of now I don't have that option or the option to do both. I've already tried un and re-installing duolingo and restarting my phone, and my club tab has still disappeared.
I can't find any answers on any forums. Am I missing something?
Really SUPER pissed that the ppl at Duolingo have decided to COMPLETELY IGNORE the large segment of users that do NOT want anything do with Leaderboards and are very vocal here on the forums about how we prefer the Clubs. I opened my clubs tab on my iPhone today to a notice that my club will automatically be eliminated and Leaderboards added in just a couple weeks. I created the club as private for a group of friends of mine scattered across the globe and we have been interacting via it everyday for a while. THANKS FOR NOTHING, DUO! Why don’t you listen to your users?!
I prefer the interactions with others feature of the clubs, not the leaderboard. We were able to exchange grammar tips, learn more about other countries and interests.
Im just really sad that clubs are being taken away ENTIRELY on 5/19/19. My friends and I are trying to find another language app where we can interact. We’re sad to leave Duolingo, but don’t really have a choice if we want to continue to interact in Spanish. I don’t really understand the point of even having friends/followers on Duolingo if you can’t interact with each other to practice what you are learning.
@TownsendDu - let us know if you do find another language app with the same social aspect. Interaction is so important to language learning.
I really HATE Leaderboards. The idea that I could learn a language only by gaining points (testing out all lessons at once) is ludicrous and totally failed. You will push to have more points instead of writing down anything you should actually learn. And you are depriving us of a chance to practice language effectively. So better stop it.
TownsendDu, I'm afraid I cannot be of much help regarding the fact that you want to contact somebody at Duolingo, although I might be able to solve your club problem.
I've created a Slack group for language learners, and maybe you would like to join along with your friends. You will still be able to talk with your friends and native speakers like me and my friend will always be there to correct you and help you out :)
More info at this discussion: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32103164
Go to settings on your cell phone, tablet or computer, click on ‘Contact Support’ I already did it . One of the staff will always answer you Good luck!
I am not in the club. They throw me out. I am in a leaderboard now. I did not ask it. I don’t want to be in the leaderboard. I WANT TO BE IN BACK INTO MY CLUBS
How about an option to the people where they can choose clubs or leaderboards? You can't just force people to join leaderboards it's so boring there and yeah it's pointless competing with people who are learning different languages. The last ten members on the leaderboards are always dead with 10 XP. Kindly do the needful.
GIVE BACK THE CLUBS! There is no fun in just learning when you can't learn or chat with other people.
Everyone here votes for Clubs!
Why not clubs and leaderboards at the same time?
Will clubs disappear?
Take into account that there are people who never use the web version of Duolingo, so they are not going to read this post.
Yes! I've had some friends saying, "Join my club!" But I can't because of leaderboards... :(
I AGREE!! I joined Duolingo, & got others to joins as well, bcz 1. I/We use my/our phone exclusively 2. I wanted to get a club of my far-flung friends together in one place to learn/interact 3. We have ZERO interest in leaderboards or competing with ppl we don’t know IRL.
The absence of the Club app on the Android app is making this HUGELY problematic.
I'm reading it on my Android. I had to uninstall and reinstall the app to get my club back.
Is it possible?I'm unable to see my club but getting notification from it on app.
pK.72 they're probably developing a solution for that. If they get to a conclusion, they'll definitely tell us since it's a major discussion topic now.
2 months later, no sign of an acknowledgement of blank club tab, let alone a solution. In my club we have to reinstall Duolingo every time we want to get to the club! Very frustrating app this last year. Clozemaster and Memrise don't put you through this sausage machine.
Edit: fixed in Android version 4.10.2 huzzah!
@_withoutwax: Yes, I can see both the club and leaderboard tabs, the same as it was in the past. The leaderboard I see is still the one for my club, since I'm still in a club. I suppose if I were to leave my club (some cold day in hell!) I would be placed in a league, and the leaderboard tab would show me the leaderboard for that league.
Don Forbes, assuming the fix in Android version 4.10.2 means you can now see the club tab, does that mean you can see both club and leaderboard tab on the phone?
So can I assume, then, at least for now, that if my app shows "leaderboards" then I cannot join a club?
I was in a club and when I was placed in a leaderboard I couldn't see my club unless I got a notification. Now, starting today, I can see my club but cannot see my leaderboard! I think they are still trying to fix all of the bugs?
+1 Yes I found the leaderboard (that I was briefly exposed to, apparently a bug) very motivating and was getting ready to knuckle down to put in 1000xp to get into Gold. I'd also like to see both!
this is a perfect addition to the App, I hope to see tips¬es in the app too as the next addition
This is an app that requires a lot of typing. Why you would treat desktop as a second class citizen is beyond me.
Leaderboard is just another gimmick. It doesn't matter to serious learners using desktops.
And actually typing the responses has a lasting effect on your memory and writing skills instead of selecting predefined words.
You are absolutely right - typing the responses does do a better job of reinforcing the learning than choosing from the word bank.
You can still type the words on the phone too, you know. I have the German keyboard enabled on my phone and it often asks me to type German words.
Duolingo needs ads to keep education free, and people use Adblock on the desktop site. This could be the reason Duolingo would focus on the app.
According to statements made by Luis in the past, web users have been a small minority of overall users since within months of the apps being introduced. Duo shifted to focusing it's efforts on the apps where the majority of users would see the most benefit. That shift happened years before ads were added to any of the platforms.
Well, at least Duo is aware that most of the more serious learners prefer Desktop anyway, so key features go there. Bells and whistles for the app are great for the type of people who like to use phones for everything. (Not saying all phone users are like that, just more so than desktop)
I'll stick with desktop just for the lack of the health system :)
But they're also well aware of the fact that the apps are their primary source of revenue. Based on the number Luis has shared in the past, revenue from ads on the web version are tiny compared to the revenue from ads on the apps.
I think the simpler explanation is that some features are easier to experiment with on the web compared to the apps. Changes can be affected faster / easier without the constraints of the app where an update might have to be pushed to support a small test feature. That's not the case for the web client.
Hi MarkFraser11! What do you mean about treating desktop as a second class citizen here? Are you saying this because this feature is being tested on Android first?
because most of the useful features that can help on desktop arent applied here. This site is just like a secondary app
Be grateful for that. Thanks to the website getting fewer changes, we can actually hope the most disliked stuff doesn't get here from the apps.
I dissagree. There is a lot more features on desktop. The XP graph, the notes and lessons for every course, the discussions. Honestly all I need is the notes being available on android too and the app would be perfect for me
I couldn't say it better myself. Duolingo's mobile developers put the key icon for testing out of a lesson, why couldn't they put the note button next to it? I don't understand why mobile app developers seem to give up on trying to include fundamental features, or simply take the easy/lazy route because it's expected of mobile apps. Well, it can't be that way forever.
I found that I could access a mobile version of the desktop site via my Android phone's browser, and it was laid out very similarly to the app, BUT with the note buttons included! They show up as little light bulb icons next to the key icon. This is my current work-around to access the notes. I added a shortcut to Duolingo via browser to my phone's homescreen, so it is quick and easy to access.
It's funny, because phones can use browser to access the web version and computers can use virtual phones to access the app version. One of those takes a bit more setup though...
It is staggering that they should keep on introducing futile features without embedding the notes in their application. As suggested, one may use a web-browser to study, but that is clearly not as convenient or optimised for mobile usage.
Yeah? They do have a mobile web version optimised for use on phones, or were you being sarcastic?
French and Spanish from English are the only two languages that have Tips and Notes available on the app. Not sure why none of the other languages have it, but it is what it is.
You can start on android and continue on desktop once you've been placed in a leaderboard: "You have to do a lesson on Android to get put into an initial group, but after that your XP from any platform should count".
Doing this with timed practice on desktop seems to be to be the most efficient way to game this, considering I just got 1500 points in just over an hour and finished at #1. Before that, I had been hovering around #4 for most of the week, using just the app with less gamey methods.
This might not be as important if you're happy with being in the top 10. I imagine when this feature settles down that it will be a bit more reasonable and fit with different studying cycles. I also suspect there will be fewer people gaming things when we're not in a boosted participation cycle, as in once we're completely out of the new year's boost, and not into a new cycle (e.g. end of school year or something).
When I look at the Leaderboard name list, I have a gold flag in front of my name. Is that because I have completed a full tree? Someone else has a slightly gold flag, and every other name has a grey flag. What is that?
When updated, I lost my achievements for club and the app do not give me extra experience for finished lessons without errors.
Yep, I was just saying that they did away with bonus XP, but only for some users so just know that your score is going up against people who are still getting the bonus for every lesson. Really fair, aye?
Amazing little feature - love the little tweaks to keep you motivated!
I do see some of the complaints here. It's difficult to stay at the VERY top (and perhaps it should be), but I don't think it's all bad since I generally feel motivated to try to stay in the top 10.
I do think the UI needs to be changed to be a truer reflection of what languages are being learned. If I'm reverse-learning Spanish from English or if I'm learning Catalan, the app will say I'm learning only English and Catalan when the real truth is... well, look up a little bit ;)
I do offer two solutions to what have been brought up:
1.) The solution for deleting and readding trees should be taking away credit earned on that tree from the leaderboard. Say if you had 5000 XP (I'm pulling the number out of thin air) for a language since the start of the week and you delete the corresponding tree, you drop 5000 XP on the leaderboard. (If we do the separate leaderboard points idea instead, then modify the suggestion accordingly—you lose the corresponding LP on the leaderboard too.)
2.) For doing the placement tests to English from other languages they're fluent in, perhaps show what language the tree is from like it does for the dropdown on the desktop. It might not be as effective a deterrent from abuse of the system as the above but it would at least increase transparency.
Hi Duolingo community! Just wanted to share my opinion for leaderboards.
I feel that there should be a leaderboard per language.
- Because if you just join all the languages in one leaderboard, it might promote that you can just get to the top by starting a ton of languages that you do not want to really learn, just so that you can earn a lot of exp with easy lessons.
- This might deter the users to just start a language just to stay on top of the leaderboard. With this, the people at the top of the leaderboard will be filled with competitive people that are really pouring in time to learn a language.
Does anyone know how to get onto their clubs? I don't mind leaderboard but I've been able to access my club only once this week...? I want to do all the challenges and use this word etc?!?!
If someone has a link to clubs or how to access them let me know, I've done it once before with leadership still on my phone, I've lost how to get onto them :-(
I don't understand why i switch the whole time between Leaderboard and clubs :(
can someone help me?
Yep! Last week is a bug... if you're in a Club you should see Clubs. If you want to transition to Leaderboards, just leave all of your clubs (but please note that you won't be able to go back at that point because you won't see the Clubs tab anymore).
Finally I have a friend who wants to do German in a club with me, and I no longer can access Clubs (I wasn’t in one before, but now I want to create one).
And, from a pedagogical standpoint, cooperative language learning with a group is far more effective a tool than artificially generated competitions. I am completely uninterested in this stupid competitive system you all have created. If others want to do that, fine, let them. But people should have the option to CHOOSE whether to have clubs or leaderboards. Or, why not both?
Please put this on desktop... it makes zero sense as to why a competitive leaderboard is mobile priority..
I worked hard all week and placed 3rd in silver with about 3000 XP's. 10 min after the new leaderboard started in gold there are people with over 1000 XP's. I don't wish to compete with hackers. Is it possible to gain 1000 points in 10 min without hacking?
They're not hacking, they're just using test-outs / placement tests to score a lot of quick points. That's something the devs have said they are working to address to make the competition more fair.
In the gold league I was in last week, the minimum for promotion was 7000, number 1 was at about 23,000. A bit demoralising when you've spent hours and hours just to get a few thousand. As EseEmeErre, one of the developers has said they're working on how to resolve this discrepancy. With luck it will become much fairer I within a couple of weeks and the boards will find their natural levels.
No, you won't be able to see the Club tab if you have this leaderboard on your app.
Do you know how to get rid of the leaderboard tab and replace it with the club tab, though? I'm very disappointed. I got the app (I was a desktop user) for the sole purpose of the clubs, just to find out they are suddenly gone for Android users.
I have read a lot of comments about testing out being unfair in regard to accumulating xp, and I do agree.
I notice this statement on your page regarding accumulation of lingots: "Note: Lingots are not awarded when you use a tree shortcut to level up or finish a skill."
In this context, I think that xp should not be awarded as an equivalent to all the lessons skipped, but rather only 10 xp as if it were one lesson.
Please give us an option to not have to participate in the leaderboards. And give us back the extra points for finishing a step without any mistakes like we used to have.
We should have both clubs and leaderboards, both are nice features of Duolingo!
I seem to be unable to join a club at all because of the leaderboard? I have friends who started a club but I can't join because of this? Is there any way to get around this?
This is exactly the problem I am so annoyed about. I started a French club, invited my friends to join Duolingo so we could learn together, and now half of them can’t join my club because they have Android. If you have Android, you don’t get to do clubs anymore. They’ve have replaced clubs with leaderboards, which is not as helpful at all. Really not happy about that.
I would like to be in a club where other members do the activities. I use to be, and enjoyed reading other's answers but now it is boring!
Leaderboards ignore consistency and reward intensity. Training any skill is more about consistency than it is about intensity. When i first discovered leaderboards there were people who had 2000+XP and the timer showed "6d 6h remaining". I wrote it off as a bug. Now i'm currently grinding extremely hard to stay on the top 1 of my bronze league. Most people in the top 10 are accounts with 1 day streaks but 2-5k XP on one language.
I think people of similar streak length and goals should be grouped together, so it's a fair comparison. Someone who has been doing 3 lessons every day for 600 days straight only gets 210XP / week tops. They will never beat the top 10 in bronze which consists of day old accounts that just grind 1-2k XP in their native tongue for a day. But the person with the long streak is probably the more serious and committed learner.
This is also discouraging new learners, who don't know how the system works. They think everyone is extremely committed and it's only them who will always be at the bottom.
The system is great for someone who likes to grind in a competitive setting, but people are basically gaming the system by creating alt accounts. Please take streak length and goals into consideration when matching people.
Agreed. They should just let people opt out of leaderboards if they want to. Imo, leaderboards reward binging...speeding through lessons -- almost everything that is the very antithesis of really trying to learn a language.
Nearly 600 comments on this topic shows the depth of feeling. DL needs to address the inconsistencies asap including making sure that the mobile & web versions actually have identical functionality. However, all that doesn't mean that DL isn't an excellent language learning tool because it certainly is!
I would like to join a club but my only option is leaderboards. I feel like this option is not helpful because I rush through my lessons. I'd like to disable leaderboards. But if I could converse with people, that would be awesome!
Please. I am on an android phone. I have a group of fellow language learners that have a club, but I can't turn off this stupid leader board thing to access it. HOW do I do that? I can find nothing on the app or the desktop version that allows for turning the leader board feature - which is useless to me - off. ???
Help! My clubs have disappeared from my Android device. How do I get them back? I'm admin on one and I can't even see it!
@julie 294148 Have you tried uninstalling your app and reinstalling? That has worked for some people.
I did, but it's a temporary fix. I have reinstalled 4 times now. The club area goes blank after a while, but the list of club members will still be available.
Hmm, that's unrelated to Leaderboards, if it's showing the clubs tab, even if that's blank.. then reinstalling isn't likely to help. I'll pass this on to the Clubs ppl.
I think it is. The problem only started after I pressed a pop-up for "try new leaderboards". It seems my account does a partial include - just enough to exclude my clubs from being accessed. The app still shows the shield icon, and after selecting it, the upper option bar retains the active leaderboards selection. Note that when selected, leaderboards list is the old simple list of club members. New leaderboards is non-accessable on either Android or PC with my account. One more note - purging the app's memory to force a sign-in also allows temporary viewing of clubs.
Please let us opt out of leaderboards!! I am on iOS and got forced into it after an update. No response to email inquiries to opt out.
I’m on my iPhone and have the newest update 6.12.0 but I’m seeing the leaderboard instead of clubs and a completely different screen from my friends who are also on the iPhone using the 6.12.0 update. My friends still have the clubs feature and not the leaderboard. Anyone else have the same problem?
WHEN will Duolingo get rid of these stupid leaderboards and go back to clubs like everyone is saying? No one wants them! Everyone seems to want clubs. I know leaderboards are absolutely a waste of time... I got 250pts for just attending an "event" (didn't expect to get points for that) - isn't that completely unfair to those who don't have events nearby? Or allows others to "cheat" by hosting events and then claiming points for "attending them all"... Seriously, I'd like better to see what my FRIENDS are up to, and be competitive with my local group of esperantists - not some random people I have no connection to. I think most people in these comments are saying the same thing - get rid of leaderboards, and bring back clubs!!!
open web duolingo - settings - privacy - disable Make my profile public, and you will be back to clubs
Communicating with other learners is established in research as a means to improve learning.
Clubs enables communication between learners and offers a great way sharing and practice what one has learned.
Competition is of course also good. However, why take away one for the other!?
For whatever reason, I'm not on a leaderboard even without being in a club
What is the point of a leaderboard? I am unable to communicate with anyone. There is no fun to it. Part of the fun is to communicate with others encourage them ask them questions about problems you may be having with learning a new language.
i found how to do it. open web duolingo - settings - privacy - disable Make my profile public
You claim that bringing the Health system discourages binging behavior, yet the Leaderboards you are implementing actually "encourages" this binging behavior.
Sorry, but this sounds like a way to make all of us older Hobby Language Learners feel bad about our hobby because we'll be low on the ranking - a tempting and sad reason to quit after my 1112-day streak.
I really liked clubs and was sad to see it replaced by leaderboards. Still, I threw myself into it (I am competitive) and quickly made it to Ruby league. Now I'm bored and demotivated again. There's no one to chat with and I'm in the top league with no other goals. The only thing to do is strive to be in the top 3 to earn lingots, but for what? I'm drowning in lingots that I can't spend on anything. Please bring back the club option for everyone and for goodness sake add things to the lingot store!
Keep the groups. The app would be even stronger as the number 1 app for learning a new language. A choice is always better than to be forced.
Alright, here's my two cents: I think the leagues are a wonderful idea to motivate people, but I don't want to be forced into it. If I'm going to do a league, I want to enter it of my own volition, not be forced into it by an update.
This league thing is awful. Duolingo needs to add a function to leave any league or leagues in general. The league approach is, in my view, mindless competition with no positive contribution to expanding ones language skills. I have tried it. I REALLY don't like it. Give me a club or let me get out of leagues and clubs altogether. Duolingo does so well otherwise. Why go to such lengths to mess it up?
Hello everyone, I got this on my club. Sign this petetion to save clubs. I already did.
I do not like leaderboards. I felt uncomfortable to compete in just one week. so I can not feel the fun of learning English. Please revive the club.
I don’t find this update fair. It’s so hard to not be in the demotion zone and if you are it makes you feel like a failure. Plus, now I can’t access clubs. WHY?!
There are a lot of comments here... forgive me if this has already been said: I liked the leaderboards at first. I know that I tend to be competitive in an unhealthy way, so I try to avoid competing with people. But as soon as Leaderboards were introduced, I got stoked, and through efforts, got into Gold League, being promoted up each week. While I was in gold though, I tried really hard to be promoted into Platinum but to no avail. People above me were just doing 1,000 xp a day, which I didn't have the time or power to get close to. Pretty much since then, I haven't finished a lesson because I don't want to try to compete with those people. Moreover, the people I'm competing with aren't even competing in my language, so I can't even use the Leaderboards to find friends to practice with. It's very frustrating.
I'm sorry you even seem to feel demotivated by people who make extremely many XP.
So far, I have been lucky: The people in my leagues are about as reasonable as I am. ;-)
But I have thought about this: If in a week I should be surrounded by overachievers, I won't compete to get to the next league in that week. I'll just do as much as needed to not fall back.
Then, in the following week, I will still be in that old league, but with different people. And I would hope that in that week or the week after, there will again be competitors around me who move at approximately my speed.
Just an idea to avoid frustration.
Happy learning! :-)
I'm currently disabled from all forms of clubs and i still can't seem to get into any of the leagues and i'm seriously losing my patient. I have obeyed every single rule on entering the leagues but nothing seems to be working(even the latest version of the app).
Give users options. It's sad that my and others' families and friends are separated by this rash Club vs League update. It's even worse for those who are already in a Club, especially private Clubs, to be forced to compete in this Leagues of Leaderboards. A good ecosystem between devices is important and pleasing. Make a Patreon, GoFundMe or the like to help alleviate financial burdens.
The league is the most stupid thing i could see! Learning a language it is not a game to be in a score table with people that you will never interact. I like to know the people and to be happy for them if they learn with me. This was a motivation for me.
Please, I don't want to be in a league. I hate this. Please don't force me into competition with others without my consent. This is not something I asked for or wanted. I want the opposite of this. I want not this.
The leaderboards are pretty controversial. It was a good idea, but it has a few cons. It does demotivate people, and personally, it's a waste of time. I am in a leaderboard with people only have 3-day streaks, and they waste too much time in their day getting hundreds of XP. I know my streak isn't that high, but I am consistent. I have gotten 90 XP today trying to get to the next league, but I still haven't reached the top 10. I feel like it's a waste of time to even try. I know, like the clubs, everybody will become inactive and it will be too easy to reach #1 on a leaderboard. Although, it is a great idea that can also be motaviating for some people. It can help you set a goal and reach it, such as #5 or higher on the leaderboard. But, it's not very fun right now.
Actually - they did change my way of learning. I am doing now much more repetitions, which actually helps to learn a language. Agree however, there is room for improvement. It would be nice to have language specific leaderboards - and it would be great if we could as well communicate with the others on the leaderboard, like previously in the clubs.
I have set my profile to private - and lost so my friends. I'm mourning the old "clubs", where you competed with people who learned the same language, where you could exercise your own - rather free - writing and uphold a basic conversation, if you wanted to. The new leagues are just competing with people who are out for points and leading (and I doubt, they really learn). Leagues - imho - are a blatant fail.
Hello Duolingo team,
what is a "right-to-left" language?
Greetings from Germany to Pittsburgh
I would guess a language written from right to left such as Hebrew, rather than from left to right such as German.
I like you, helpful duolingo, and as you're new in the job it's to make you feel welcome.
I'm a bit surprised other students have failed to welcome you too, although it's a matter of choice when it comes to giving lingots. Quand même.
If you like my lingot, please blink to show me how much.
Yeah. Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, Persian, etc. Mostly just very, very old languages.
All living languages are equally old. The right to left thing has more to do with their ancestry.
I think this is one of those what is a language questions. Is modern English the same language as Middle English. Can you really call English, without the French influence from the Norman conquest, really English with 40% of the vocabulary missing. Can a modern Hebrew speaker read biblical Hebrew, could they have a conversation with a Jew from 1000 BC. Maybe something like Icelandic is the oldest since it has changed the least in the last 1000 years.
Why is this getting minus votes? I've got hundreds of lingots & nowt to spend them on!!
Anybody have an idea of when PC gets the new Duolingo update?
Really looking forward to it (Despite it's childishness!)
I am not sure if I like the Leaderboards feature or not. It is sort of fun and probably encourages me to do more lessons. It does NOT encourage me to take all the time I need on a lesson, spend time reviewing vocabulary, looking up things, reading the commentary. following up on links and suggestions. I guess we will see. Maybe it will grow on me.
Why do some members appear on my pc but not on my android? Do I have to update my android app?
Hi Gwyllem, are you thinking of the Leaderboard that appears on the lower right side of the web browser? That’s s leaderboard of people you’re following.
In the Android app (if it’s like the iPhone app), you can find that list on your profile page. On the iPhone app that’s behind the “face” at the bottom of the screen — maybe similar on Android?
The Leaderboards being discussed on this thread are a different feature, composed of groups semi-randomly chosen for you by Duolingo. That doesn’t appear at all on the webpage, only in the app.
As such, the members are probably different.
I was just advanced to the Gold league and I am wondering how people receive 500 xp within the first 5 minutes and over 1500xp within half an hour?
Testing out of skills, or even faster, testing out of groups of skills at checkpoints. You get XP equivalent to all the skills you’ve tested out of.
Finished to level 5 in all skills. Right, I think at that point you can only pick up XP the normal way, by practice sessions.
If your language has stories, they each give 20-30 XP, but take longer than a lesson.
Or you could start a reverse or ladder tree.
If you have finished the stories too, you are stuck repeating old material. No way to advance beyond the beginner/intermediate level of fluency. Time to find a better app.
I've been playing around with this some for the past couple of weeks (I think that was when it first showed up for me? I guess this post is the "release to everybody on Android" thing and the other was only some people?).
Anywho, thought I'd give some impressions:
1) In the short-term, it appears to be helpful for me. I had sunk into a min goal of 10xp per day and this motivated me to get back into it with a little more time investment.
2) On the other hand, I'm not sure it will be helpful in the long-term. I had more free time during the first week it showed up and used some of that free time in an experimental state of mind to see how high I could get and, IIRC, secured one of the top three in the Bronze tier. It was fun and all, but leaderboards aren't a one and done thing. They just keep going.
My concern, as I've seen things play out in the Silver tier, is that my desire is to get higher as I'm competitive enough to want that, but the competition is so far ludicrous. It just switched over to a new week about 8 hours ago and the lowest top ten (as of writing this) is at 210xp. In 8 hours. As you can see from my history, I have a pretty long and consistent streak and habit going in one language, which I intend to keep.
The way this is going, it is putting me in a position where I'm pressured to either burn-out by pushing myself too hard or opt-out by ignoring the leaderboard. I could let myself go back down to Bronze and then hang between that and Silver, but I think that would be kind of boring and defeat the point of it being a leaderboard.
3) XP is not proportional (as some have already pointed out). To try to understand how some people are jumping so far ahead so quickly, I checked the profiles of many of the high-scorers both this week and last. What I noticed was that many of them were relatively low-streak and low-lifetime-XP. In other words, probably relatively new users.
I distinctly remember that when I first started French, it was much easier for me to breeze through lessons and rack up XP. This was, I believe, because at the early stages, the lessons are very simple and the majority of it is something like 3-5 words with a straight 1-to-1 translation (no special re-ordering).
I am now at a point in the language I'm doing where sentences can get very complex and it requires more focus and careful study to ensure I'm learning what all I need to learn. If I rush at all, it only slows me down in the long-term, since each lesson builds on the next in little ways.
This means I'm basically SOL when it comes to competing in the leaderboards past a certain degree. Not unless I were to change up my study habits or start new languages purely to get higher on the boards, which seems self-defeating as I would think the point is to enhance the learning you're already doing, not pressure you into changing your habits to something that could burn you out.
If there is not a full-opt-out, there probably should be. The last thing you want is to burn out people who are working slow and steady and get drawn in by the allure of competition.
Leaderboard placement needs work. I'm only just now (upon having read the post here) realizing that how speedily I did a lesson after the change over a week may be impacting my placement and why I'm getting paired with such frantically active people. But whether that's right or not, there is an inherent flaw (as others have touched on) that XP is not proportional.
A fresh user, a user doing a language they already know, or a user willing to start new languages to compete better, is going to have a significant advantage over other users. And due to turnover, there is no guarantee this will change. A consistent, longer-term usage user like myself could get paired with new users forever, always being at a disadvantage to the easier nature of getting XP early in a lesson.
I think perhaps one way to address this might be to program it so it prefers pairing longer-term users (for example, with higher-streaks) over pairing new and old, when possible. My hypothesis would be that this will naturally even out the playing field a bit, but it's hard to say without seeing it in practice.
You can search anyone by their username on duome.eu one member of my club was flying by me and I didn't understand how he was going so quickly, I looked at his duome.eu profile and saw he was going through every skill to level one then moving on to the next skill. I do a few skills all the way to 5 then move on. Since the higher the skill number is more difficult, I realised why he was so much quicker. I tried it his way and beat him on the club leaderboard that week. But I didn't feel like it was a helpful way for me to learn so I switched back and now he's beating me again. I don't think the leaderboard is helpful when you're comparing different skill levels like that and the XP stays the same.
Take into account that there are a lot of people who just started their leaderboard journey who will very likely gather XP until they are at the top leagues and stay there. So in the future the silver league might be a lot easier to stay in or mybe it will even be easier to get to gold once all the people who just started to use the feature are at another league or boared with it.
You are totally right. I ran a simulation in Excel and I got surprising results. Bronze 3.24%, Silver 6.48%, Gold 12.92%, Sapphire 25.80% and Rubi 51.55%. This means the Silver league in the future will have people ranked between 3.2% and 9.7% (i.e. only slackers). Also, people just below average (at 48.5%) will be in the Ruby league.
Yesterday the clubs was on the app but it only appears when someone has activity in it. Since I can't see it when I open the app, I can't get in to perform an activity. ??? Then when I go to another screen, the club icon disappears! So, I can't go back in!
I have V4.0.2. I've been in the 50 member club for at least 4 months. However, I haven't noticed any leagues Seems to be just a single division club. Also, since the update, I notice that the bonus XP's have vanished. Up to now, if you got all the questions correct in a lesson, you got 5XP on top of the 10XP for completing the lesson. Where have the extra ones gone? Finally, I've always found it odd that the PC version of the app isn't exactly the same as the Android version. Any reason for that?
I wish there was a way to turn off the leaderboards. It's kinda embarrassing to admit, but my addictive tendencies for games and competitions like this makes me unable to stop looking at the leaderboard, and unable to focus on my job and rest. And it's hard to do 1000 XP solely on practice sessions. It takes me 1 hrs+ nonstop just to have at least 800 XP.
Nothing to be embarrassed of !!! Note that I feel the same: do not care about this kind of competition. I did go down this road once (on a different app) and got burned out, as another user in the discussion pointed out, my wasy of learning is slow and steady and find how to enjoy it the most :)
By the way I nearly escaped the trap with the streaks and streak freezes, too much anxiety there as well ;) Better to loose a day and start over than worry about a silly number as that.
I have a question: I'm on Android and didn't know this would happen. I'm part of a competitive club of Chinese learners, and wish to come back there and play against them. I see that the club leaderboard is still on the website, but cannot find it in the app. Will there be an option to have both? I want to try out the new leaderboards feature without losing my club. I'm third place of all time in my club, don't want to lose that.
There is no option to have both... so be careful—if you remove yourself from the Club to use Leaderboards, you will not be able to get back into it.
"You are not currently enrolled in a Duolingo Club, in any language" oh geez.... so to use this feature I have to log into every language and exit every club?
Oh wow, looking at all those flags I could see why that would be tricky for you! Unfortunately, yeah, you have to leave each club manually...
Ugh, why did I only see this now?! XD I had a pretty good run today but it's only counting the XPs I got since I joined the leaderboard (which makes sense, but yeah...). Oh well, more to learn tomorrow. :D
Overnight I got kicked out of gold league and where there was a league button there's the club button now. This way I left the league as unexpectedly as I got into it.. Why did this happen? Is this a bug? (I was placed ~6th and it's not Monday when usually the top 10 were upgraded to the next league level). Kind regards, Anne
It seems you were affected by the bug mentioned in the post and were accidentally put into a Leaderboard. Looks like the bug was fixed and you were put back where you were! If you want to go back to competing in Leaderboards, you'd have to leave all Clubs you are currently enrolled in (see post for details). Warning that there will be no way to return to the Clubs once you do that.
Hmmm, I just did a lesson, learnt 10 XP but my leaderboard XP didn't increase. So I did a second lesson and earnt another 10XP. This time my leaderboard XP increased, by 10XP, but the 10XP from my first lesson of the day was still no where to be seen. So I haven't been given any credit for one lesson I completed. I wonder how many times this has happened this week. Is there a bug?
The "worker" that updates leaderboard scores is running behind at this moment. It should catch up shortly and your progress won't be lost, it'll just show up delayed. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Oh, It's shown up now. Thanks, all good. I was just worried there might be something buggy going on, but if its just a lag, no harm, no foul.
woah, Its difficult to rank up. I've been trying but even in silver league the top dog has 5000+ exp and I only just hit 1000. (and I am at 15th place)
I keep getting a notification about the leader-board on my phone every few minutes.
"Time's running out on your leaderboard..."
I have notifications turned off for it (all notification are turned off for everything, including motivational messages) but they just keep coming. It's extremely annoying, can you please fix this please?
Thanks for the report. Looks like there is something wrong there, so we've shut off that notification completely for now. Sorry for the spamming!
Nice incentive top keep oneself busy but I found the hard way that if you start with Tiny Cards, even on Android, it does not count. You actually have to start the day with a lesson before other facilities XPs are added to your daily tally on the leadership board.
I am in that small amount. I can't see any clubs! Only a leaderboard. ETA on fix!?!?!?
It doesn't appear that you are in any clubs. The fix is already released for people who are in clubs, but people who aren't in Clubs aren't shown the clubs tab anymore.
(If you really want to hack around it, you could join a club on an iOS device or something)
Or...… how about just giving everyone the option of being in a club regardless of leaderboards or whether they use Android or iOS??? I appreciate you trying to come up with a "hack" to help Android users but seriously...….. People still want clubs!
So you're just cutting off new members that use Android from clubs completely? Why bother recruiting friends then if you can't learn languages with them.....
I tried that and it worked quite well! Thanks for the tip!
I use Android, apple and web. Because of that experience I see features being rolled out to all over time. The tips and notes, for instance. Seeing the effort it takes to maintain all that I decided to do the Plus subscription. I'd like to thank other learners for reporting their questions about lessons, too. Over the past few ears I have tried several languages, and am reminded that even when they go from Beta, there are still refinements that need to be done. So please use the reports.
As for clubs, leaderboards, etc., I am glad to see Duolingo trying different ways to motivate people. No one method will please everyone. Give the leaderboard concept a try. If you don't like it report it to Duolingo or just ignore it and use the conversation challenges, or the events, or find people and have your own language meet ups.
Features that seem to work well on one platform are then converted to work on others.
Will the feature appear on an android emulator for mac ?? I'm thinking of using Nox.
I just found an easy way to cheat: take a placement test in a language you already know perfectly. Gain a lot of XP. Remove that language from your profile (keeping your points in the leaderboard). Rinse and repeat.
Why not clubs and leaderboards? I want to compete with strangers but I also want to compete with my friends.
I don't care about leaderboards at all the important thing is that I'm learning at my own pace.
So clubs are different for iOS? My android buddies keep telling me there’s nothing more to the clubs than the leaderboard.
With clubs, you are able to chat amongst club members, such as practice scenarios in whatever language you’re learning. It really helps to actually be able to use the language, and not just be parroting what the app is giving you as practice/lessons. When others with better language skills and vocabulary are chatting with you, you learn phrases and words that may not be covered in Duolingo, or that make you push yourself to learn to their level. Another good thing about the clubs option, is that you can start/join a private club, with only people that you choose, such as a group of actual friends IRL that live far from each other. I specifically joined Duolingo for this purpose and recruited friends of mine from across the US (Seattle, California, Arizona, NYC...), UK, France & Australia. However, now that they have removed clubs from Android, replacing with Leaderboards, at least half of my friends are not able to join in my club and have given up on this idea completely. They have no interest in competition with people they do not know, that change weekly. They only want to learn and practice with the same consistent people. Leaderboards being their only option is extremely frustrating, both to my friends & to me.
Very well said DyanneRicci66. This is precisely why clubs are so valuable. An ongoing conversation in your target language encourages you to expand your current level of knowledge in a targeted way. For example, hearing about the impact of adverse weather in someone's home town can introduce words, phrases and concepts not covered in a question and answer lesson and has the added advantage of developing a learning support network.
With so many people asking for clubs to remain and so few people in favor of leaderboards, I do not understand why Duolingo would waste any further time rolling out the leaderboard concept across other platforms. It would seem more sensible to me to focus that time and effort into improving clubs which are already popular and working.
Why do x Ps earned on computer not show on leader board but are showing for daily and weekly counts
Wait...so is this replacing clubs on Android devices? I have leaderboard tab, but I can't find a club tab.
I’m using the iOS version of the app, and I can’t see the leaderboard in my club. It only tells me that there are 49 members in it. Any help?
You have to do a lesson on Android to get put into an initial group, but after that your XP from any platform should count.
Do you have to use the Android app for this? Or does this also work when doing a lesson on a web browser on Android? I think this could be made more clear.
Edited to add:
The message in the app could be more clear, too. As far as I know it only says "Complete a lesson to join this week's leaderboard", but it doesn't tell you if the app must be used for it. There are already several topics about people wondering why they aren't added to a new leaderboard even after doing several lessons.
I'm very unhappy with the app. I don't get my rewards for 10 days strikes. I complete a lesson and I don't get in the leader board.
When I contact customer service it's my fault because the app in my device is not updated. My app is updated! :-(
Can I join a private club if I already have leaderboard on my Android app?
What if i still want to join a club, but can't find it because of the leaderboards?
There's obviously people abusing the Leaderboard just to gain Lingots. As I write this, I'm watching somebody on the Android app fly through the lessons, racking up XP WAY faster than anybody else. I watched him racked up over 300 XP in the same amount of time I got 70 from working non stop. It makes wanting to use the Leaderboard a complete joke!!
Dude it's been 3 months since we can't see the clubs it should be fixed by nowww
I did join a club .. Half of members active ,maybe. Their Admin was in 4th place. When I hitted the 2nd place ,I stopped the lessons. I planned to get the 1st place the next day.. When I logged in again for more lessons ,I saw that I had been expelled from that Club¡ Not fair¡¡ What.s an Admin for? Fer' ban people only? Do something for avoid that disrespectful behavior ,please. Or: 1. Let us choice a Club as previously you could. 2. Let us stay in the Club until the end of the week for defend your effort in the ranking. In the new week we could be expelled in the case the Admin 'wish' it. 3. Let us keep the Xp points earned in the current week when we join some other Club
Hi DetunedRadio. Sorry you had a bad club experience. Not all of them are like that. In ours, eliminations happen on a Sunday afternoon to give everyone a fair chance during the week. You only risk elimination if either you haven't been active that week or you haven't given advanced notice that you are likely to be inactive for a while. Bad behavior/language results in instant elimination. That way, we keep an active and friendly club with members that support each other. Whoever is in first place on Sunday evening gets congratulated, as do members that achieve milestones for example 100 day streaks. I hope you find a better club next time round.
Why is this not accessible on the web version? The two apps are missing so many other CRUCIAL features that they should be discontinued. All savvy Duolingo users go on the mobile web version. I only just heard of leagues by accident today 2 months after they came out!!
I have friends on the app and I want to join their club. There's no place for me to even enter their code it. Whyyyyy? Duo Whyyy? It seems this problem has been happening for at least a month. Any progress on fixing it?
the trouble with this is that people are using things like basic to gain points when they are well advanced i thin you should get more points for strenghting than practice the basic because it is easy
Yes but HOW do you join a club with a code? Where do you enter that... I SEE NOTHING!!!!
When will this be fixed? I would love to join a group. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but it brought back my leadergroups.
If I downloaded the android app to join a club (since, of course, just making them available for web in the first place would be just TOO complicated), am I just out of luck? I'm not under 13, like the "where is my club tab" page suggests. I'm also not actually in a leaderboard yet. Is there any way that I can enable clubs at this point?
I can't seem to be able to find leagues. I'm with the newest version of duolingo (or so I think) on installed on the android, And it's not there...
Whoa! what just happened? Leaderboards are gone and clubs are back on both my Android devices (this happened on my phone and then on my tablet). I also seem to have been enrolled in a random club. AND my phone and tablet are no longer in sync about what lessons I have done.
I wish there was a way to do both, because I was very disappointed to find out I couldn't join my friend's club because I was set to Leaderboards by default...
open web duolingo - settings - privacy - disable Make my profile public, and you will be back to the clubs
Are there xp that don't count for leaderboards? On my desktop it says I have earned 934xp but on my phone the leaderboard says 884xp
Give is back clubs
Bring back clubs
We.want somewhere where we can chat
Can't this at least be optional? The clubs I contribute to most are ones with friends so we can practice together.
I think leagues are a good thing... at least in principle. Definitely not the way they are implemented now anyway.
It is far too easy to cheat the system and people are "motivated" to get into wrong habits that are not helpful at all for learning a language, e.g.
1) Practicing over and over again on skills so easy that one could do them while sleeping --> SOLUTION: stop giving points for skills that are already completed.
2) People deleting their progress, then subscribing again to the same course --> SOLUTION: disallow this possibility
3) Joining a new league later in the week, so that top performers who practice every day are already gone and you can advance to the next league concentrating your effort in a couple of days against weaker opponents SOLUTION --> make it harder to be promoted, easier to be demoted in a "late start" league (e.g. joining a league on Wednesday only the first 5 are promoted and the last 20 demoted... and so on)
Sure there are many other possibilities.... the way they are now, leagues are not really good at motivating. One has the clear impression that too many crooks advance based on tricks.... Ooops I am in the ruby league, maybe I should not say that :-)
However, I still love Duolingo. You are doing an excellent job, with some margin for improvement.
I prefer the clubs. Dedicated members working towards language goals. I like the leader board too... But it's so superficial. I want more languages added or updated and for the love of all that is good, SOMETHING ACTUALLY WORTH SPENDING THESE DAMN LINGOTS ON.
I have given the competitive leaderboard thing a try and I'm up at Ruby level. I'm going to drop back though because I can't afford to spend so much time, about 2 hours a day, trying to keep up or go into higher levels. I have the feeling that I'm not retaining as much by going through so much material so quickly . I not doing some things like the podcast which I find really helpful. So I'm going to see where I can be comfortable and enhance what I'm learning.
I have a small club myself with a group of people who has joined my club, I want to continue with this group of people, but I am afraid that my club disappeared after the 30th of May? What can I do to keep contact with the people in my club and continue with them in the new leaderboard?
@VincentL66 - the only thing I can suggest to you for the time being is to set up something outside of Duolingo. For example I have set up a private Facebook group for our Spanish club and for some people from these forums looking for a continuing active club. I would do the same or find someone who has done it already for your target language. Good luck!
I do not use Facebook and do not want to use it, they are not my friends. Moreover, Facebook is messy and it violates privacy. I only have a Dutch Duolingo club in the duolingo app because it is easier to help each other in your own language. I want to learn more languages and set up a club for that. I started with Swedish if I understand that I will continue with a new language. if I was only interested in learning Swedish and perhaps too emigrated to Sweden, I would probably want more contact with my club members. What the other club members do is not interesting, we only use the private club for language lessons, not for social things. The only thing we have in common is that we all speak Dutch and learn Swedish.
@VincentL66 - I understand your sentiments. I am not a Facebook user and don’t particularly want to be. I set up an account for the sole purpose of creating a private group after Duolingo’s decision to close down clubs. Some of our members joined. Others like you, just don’t want to use Facebook. Understandable. If you are still trying to find a solution for your club other people have mentioned discord (but that looks like a gaming app - I don’t know) or Slack. I’m afraid I know nothing about those two. I do hope you find a way to continue your private club!
The trick of duolingo is that you set a daily score for yourself, so that you also do your language lessons neatly. The people in your club do this too, which makes you feel satisfied.
This does not work with a club outside of duolingo.
This feeling is much less if there are only strangers in the club. Without your own club, you will also be automatically classified somewhere, setting up a club yourself is not difficult, but finding members for it is very difficult.
Instead of returning to an unsympathetic way of clubs (the new leaderboard), Duolinge should make it easier to find club members and encourage the creation of their own clubs.
This would cost them nothing, because it's already exist, starting with keeping the already existing clubs, and entering an extra tab in the discussionboard for people which are searching for members
@VincentL66 - Again, I agree with you. I wish Duolingo would listen. One of the things our club was very good at was congratulating each other on the weekly xp winner. You can't do that in a group outside duolingo or on leaderboards. Clubs on Duolingo used to be better for example, you could search for a club most closely aligned with your level and language of learning. Instead of developing soulless leaderboards, Duolingo, in my opinion, should have spent that time and money on improving and promoting clubs and their positive elements, not force people into isolation.
So I am trying to find out about the Leaderboards once the clubs are disabled. Right now, my friend and I use our club to post in Spanish to one another and practice written conversations. Will there be a place to do that once clubs are disabled on 5/19/19? I have the app on my IOS device. Thank you!!!
@TownsendDu - At the moment no. Leaderboards are just a list of 50 people who may or may not be studying the same language as you and with whom you have no ability to interact. The only thing you can do after May 19th is create a club outside of Duolingo or find someone who has already set one up. For example, some people are using discord. For our club, I have set up a Facebook group. Some of our members have already moved across, and some members from other clubs have already joined us as well.
That makes me sad. Besides the lessons, the conversation feature in clubs is one of the only reasons I use the Duolingo app. I guess we will have to start looking for other language apps where this is possible. I do hope the creators of Duolingo see how important this feature is
While the leagues concept is an interesting idea, I do not feel as though it should replace clubs. I have recently joined a club that I absolutely adore being part of, and it feels like a safe environment to practice writing French while getting friendly feedback on grammar, phrasing, etc. It feels like a terrible shame that I will have to give up this community so soon after I have gained it.
In addition to having a safe place to practice French, the people in clubs can also discuss events, music, and films that are significant to France: an interesting immersive experience that would not be available should Duolingo remove the clubs feature.
Healthy competition between friends is a fun way to keep someone motivated, but I don't really care to compete with people I don't even know. It does not encourage me to do more lessons, nor does it discourage me from working on lessons, whereas being in a club has caused me to earn more exp than I ever have before.
tl;dr Leagues are an okay idea, but please don't replace clubs with them.
I got this on my club. Sign this petetion to save clubs. I already did. Good luck.
I see no reason why we can't continue with our clubs; from the description of the proposed leaderboards, the purpose and function of the feature is completely different from what we achieve in the club's. Please can you make sure that the clubs feature is not disrupted in any way by this change?!
"You have to do a lesson on Android to get put into an initial group, but after that your XP from any platform should count" Too bad I didn't know it. I made more than 150XP in my PC, and then in the mobile I saw that I need to start a lesson in the mobile to enter to the league. And all the points I made up to that moment, gone...
I don't like leaderboards at all. I was put in a Spanish leaderboard even though Spanish is not the main language I study. I can't figure out how to get back to my German club, which was run by Renee. Please help me get back into my German club if at all possible. I got a message through Duolingo from Renee overnight last night and when I clicked on it it took me to an offer to enter an Esperanto Club. So clearly I'm still connected to the German club but I can't find a tab for it on my Android app.
My little sister is learning Norwegian, she is not in any clubs, and has the latest verison of the app. yet she does not have a leaderboard. there are still only three tabs at the bottom of her screen, not four like the update has. what should she do? we already tried uninstalling and reinstalling the app.
Okay. Found out about changing the Privacy Settings on the Desktop site to solve this Club vs Leaderboards problem. Not sure if it works for new users who were forced into the Leagues though.
Leaderboards are to slow paced for club interaction. No chatting or helping fellow members with tips or answers for questions. Totally blows!!!
Please please make the leaderboards optional. A lot of people have made better points than me in this thread. I find it entierly discouraging and stressful, when I use duolingo to relax!!
I don't remember if this has already been addressed in this thread, but I find it important:
It seems that some participants use Tinycards to gain a lot of XP through repetition of very easy decks. This distorts the competition. I suggest that XP, acquired through repeated repetition, are capped at some point. The issue was raised in this thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32390710
Finally I've discovered what does leagues mean. It appeared to me, but the i-icon does not explain what it means. I've found nothing in the help documentation. I have only found an unofficial documentation at https://duolingo.fandom.com/wiki/League. And from that page I've discovered this discussion. :o
Its oke, only thingis that i would like it more if the leader board has the same language people, now i am competing with peoplewho study english or french, i am doing spanish
First I went to the Play Store, and it didn't offer to update my app.
Then I've dropped my club. (It was inactive, so no loss.) I then did a lesson.
Still no leaderboard, just a "do you want to join a club" screen.
What am I missing?
This happened to me too, turns out I was in another club in another language that I had forgotten about. Also, make sure you restart your app after leaving your last Club. Let me know if that works!
I recently had to sys restore my phone and when I reinstalled Duolingo the Leaderboards tab was gone. I know I have the current version and I'm not currently in another club and I just did my lessons for the day. But its still not there. Am I doing something wrong still?
Are you sure you're not in a Club? When this happened to me I was in a Club in a different language that I had totally forgotten about. :|
when is it coming for the web browser version? i have it in my phone but cant seem to find it on my mac
Duolingo is a worldwide app. The end time is midnight in some time zone, but for everyone else it will be different.
Somehow there is someone in my league that has 7310 exp yet it says he only has 2400xp in english and 855 in italian
I was killing it yesterday on bronze league. 2nd place. I KNOW SUCH A ROOKIE I AM AM
Hey Duolingo why can't I see it on my android device? I checked all the things but I still can't see it. Please help.
I put this in Troubleshooting already - I have a Kindle fire and would love to return to the app, but it keeps telling me it's unavailable!?! Is that true? If so, why not? Thanks!
until yesterday i was on the gold leaderboard. tonight my app was updated and now my leaderboards disappeared and where replaced by a weekly leaderboard without silver, gold etc. categories. What happened?
I enjoyed the leadeeboards for 2 weeks now on silver and gold board, but after tonights app update my boards aren't there anymore.
Hi Jasmin... It looks like you're not in any clubs, so you should be in Leaderboards now. Please let me know if you're still not able to see the Leaderboards tab.
thanks sean, i had to do another japanese lesson and then i saw the leaderboards again. whatever you did, you fixed it. thumbsup
Edit: OK -- fixed. I reinstalled the app, and now the leaderboard is back.
Has the leaderboard stopped working? It disappeared from my Android app yesterday, and was replaced with Clubs. I just exited the club, but the "shield" icon which used to take me to the leaderboard now just takes me to a page suggesting I join a club...
I can see the leaderboard on my android device but not on my lab top, they are different platforms?
Leaderboards is currently only on Android (see description above for details!)
Considering that duolingo is a free service, is still in the process of development while extending its reach exponentially it amazes me that so many contributors ❤❤❤❤❤ so much about snags and little glitches when taking advantage of one of greatest leap-forwards in labguage teaching. I suggest duolingo develops a superchouette that can nump out of the interfa e and give the user a spiteful peck on the ungrateful nose of spoiled complainants. Owl is a little darling in any language.
This sounds fun and exciting to me! I updated my app last night but I still see only four tabs below and not five, as in your screenshot. Can't wait to get the leaderboards. :)
I really like the leader boards because it makes me want to do Duolingo more than once a day! It's really cool.
This is actually my first time ever using this on a computer... I prefer mobile, mainly for convenience, but I do like the stories, even if it only works for French, Spanish, German and Portuguese.
For some reason I am unable to take a checkpoint quiz even though I have gone through the whole part. Help, anyone?
I just got promoted into the Gold league, but when I tried to do a lesson, I kept getting an error message, probably because all the other competitve Android people were trying to lay down the first lesson in their new leagues. Duolingo seems to be up and running on all platforms, and I'm able to access lessons via the browser with no issues. Hope this problem will be fixed soon, because I'm enjoying the impetus to review a language I already know pretty well (Spanish) while going much slower to learn other languages.
if you earn XP on your laptop does it transfer to your phone and keep your league leaderboard current or do we have to do all of our XP earning on our device?
You can earn XP either on your laptop or on your phone, both are synced together. so you can have your XP earning in either ways
I'm unable to view leaderboard on the duolingo app on Iphone..No updates on iphone?
I think it's a good idea, but don't you think there should be rewards at the end of each league... ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
I'm dealing with this new leaderboard gadget. I have noticed that the lingots I earn are not displayed in the leaderboard. Why?
Then, as a feedback, I have the impression that this Leaderboard has great advantages for beginners over players who have been learning a language for some time. If a beginner has a basic knowledge of a language it is much easier for him to quickly accumulate points and rise in the league than someone who has been learning a language for some time and is learning now more difficult lessons.
The leaderboard doesn't display the lingots earned. Those that you see (20, 10 and 5) will be awarded to the people with the most points at the end of the week.
my app is up to date but leaderboards is not working its give me a blank page
Hi, Duo stories does not offer Turkish language it only allows French, Spanish and others, may some help me to get the stories in Turkish language please.
There are no Turkish stories available. There is no information from Duolingo whether they are planning to offer them in languages other than the current set (French, German, Spanish and Portuguese, AFAIR).
These look good (much better for me than the clubs, I don't like those). Any idea when this feature comes to iphones? And is it like with the club, that the points gained on desktop count too, as long as you start in the app and "register"?
Really sad to see I can no longer access my participation in the Sapphire league that I was competing in. Just went poof. I was in first place and due for 20 lingots and more so motivation to keep learning multiple languages. It was great so far and now left with mystery of some kind of sudden reset mid competition. Can someone explain this to me?
Really sad to see I can no longer access my participation in the Sapphire league that I was competing in. Just went poof. I was in first place and due for 20 lingots and more so motivation to keep learning multiple languages. It was great so far and now left with mystery of some kind of sudden reset mid competition. Can someone explain this to me?
I am using my Duolingo both on desktop and mobile phone. Especially when one is waiting for something one can do some exercise in between. But the work from both desktop and mobile is taken into consideration. So even if one does 1% of work on mobile he would still be eligeble for this.
I wish they would make viewing your score easier on the app. I am running a classroom and it's difficult for my students to know how many points they have earned each day.
I had it working fine, but after I updated the app, all I have is a blank leaderboard screen. However, I still get the notifications for the leaderboard activity. I'm not sure how to get displayed again! Any thoughts?
Great! I've been wishing for a leader board as I am quite competitive so I think it would be a great motivator! But...where are the clubs? Has this replaced the clubs? or is it either or? That was also a great motivator for me and I really enjoyed answering the questions and playing the games :(
I don't know...I'm so confused. I recently got the app, and was so excited because I had heard that it had a club feature where I would be able to keep in contact with a friend. I had been using the desktop browser for a while, so I was familiar with Duo, but when I got the app, I didn't have a club tab. Then I had to delete my account because it didn't update my age. When I got a new account, it gave me a leaderboards tab, and I still have no clue how to get a club tab.
I am confused as well! When I got my own tablet I didn't know about the clubs feature and I was excited to find it and all the other benefits that come with the app version of duolingo. I expect they will fix this since so many people are asking about it :)
Exactly! I upgraded from my Kindle Fire (that didn't have Duo in the app store) to a Samsung Galaxy Tab a few months ago, and was disappointed to see that the club tap wasn't even there. I hope that they fix it, too. :)
If you’re on an Android device, you can’t. That’s what the developers decided was a good idea.
I want to test my French but I can't test out of a level to get to the level i need
I just discovered that now you have to pay lingots to be able to skip a level! This is annoying for people like me who have already been studying a language for many years and want to jump ahead to the level that we are up to :(
If you need to skip a level, you can still do that "free" on desktop version.
I'm not showing up on ruby leaderboard, even after doing lessons it still says complete 1 lesson to get on to leaderboard
What a pity, since the last update I'm no more able to see my leaderboard. Where can I find it now?
Okay so, I got 110 xp on desktop version of Duolingo. Then I went to check the leaderboard but it said I needed to do a lesson. Which I did, but the leaderboard only accounts for the lesson I actually did on my phone... Shouldn't it include the lessons you did on desktop? I did the lessons about half an hour before I did them on my phone
strange, my leaderboard has disappeared since a few days ago. I guess it just doesn't matter, I will keep plugging along.
Yes in my club I can see/view the club leaderboard but the "club" tab is not functioning. It is blank. Hope you can fix this.
a few nights ago, there was a system update on my Samsung and now I have Leaderboard back and the extra points for doing lessons on android. That makes me happy. I always cringe when updates happen, it seems all the things I like and use go haywire and I have to wait til things are either taken care of through bug fixing or I just give up caring about them and move on. At 73, I'm still learning and don't want to give that up.
At first I liked the leagues. Then when I realize that the XP is not fair to everybody I feel fooled.
hey dad has duo and i have clubs not lb why?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????ps i want lbs
I want to see the leaderboard without leaving my club Also, it'd be great if we had the same functionalities on the web version
I had leaderboards for several months on my Android device (Samsung J3), but in early April, the leaderboard function stopped updating, despite finishing a daily lesson. Where do I go for help?
Leagues are ❤❤❤❤ if you don't bring back somewher where we can talk I suggest we all leave Duolingo en mass
I hate Duolingo.now I suggest everyone leaves en mass as a protest
Hi Duolingo Team, I don't know if I'm the only person with this issue but I did a lesson on April 25 at 10pm but the app didn't add me to any of the five leagues you mentioned. I have an Android device, and I also have the latest version of the app downloaded. I'm not in a club anymore either. What's the problem?
So do "Leaderboards" replace "Clubs"? What if I want to make a club myself alongside the weekly leaderboards? Or will there be a tab that'll allow the swapping between the two?
Hello comrades!) Can wise and experienced warriors please explain to new girl: what means 20,10 &5 lingos written next to 3 leaders of the league? Thank you in advance))
The top three leaders earn lingots at the end of the week for maintaining that position.
I like the club that I am now. I don't want to loose touch of the people into this club .
my daily activity has jumped from 30xp to 300 xp in leaderboard system i know that it has its cons but it worked really fine for me i am dying to stay in 1st place
The bug is happening to me and I'm on iOS. I'm confusion you said you would fix this a month ago!
Those of you that are still in the clubs are invited to join us in a German from English club, code NH6V68.
Why don't the points gained in the stories I read on Duolingo show on the league table?
Because only the first three (are they 4 in your league?) will get lingots at the end of the week.
If you move on to third place, you will see the promised lingots by your name. :-)
But if then someone overtakes you before the end of the week, they will get those lingots.
Whelp, I was in the top 10 of my league today. #6 in the gold. Did not advance though.
I cannot see the leader board. I have a 268 day streak and I found the leader board most helpful in so far as I could check my XP everyday. Without leaderboard it is hindering my progress.
I think leaderboard's are a covert way to get people addicted to Duolingo ,to get them to spend more time on the site,i think that's wrong.
They would have to assume a majority of users would enjoy scholastic competition. If so, they've made a grievous error. There's a reason why educational competitions are poorly attended - they're boring and stressful. I've significantly reduced my time with Duolingo as it's annoying to see yourself tossed into an unwanted horse race each week.
They prefer children that play Duolingo for a limited time than grown-ups that learn for years.
It's a way for them to make more money. Every time people who have the free version of Duo finish a lesson, they see an ad. So if Duolingo can get people to really ratchet up the number of lessons they do each week, then they show way more ads and thus they get way more ad dollars from marketers/brands. Apparently they couldn't find a way to monetize the clubs, so good-bye clubs!