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  5. "wI'ollaHbe'."

"wI'ollaHbe'."

Translation:We cannot verify it.

February 3, 2019

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanZDawson

So no gemination?

February 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

In careful, formal pronunciation, no, but you will sometimes hear it from Klingon speakers in casual conversation.

February 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

What? My understanding is that gemination is the lengthening of consonants, and Klingon definitely has it.

From Klingon for the Galactic Traveler:

The differences in pronunciation between younger and older Klingons are rather subtle. As a result, the characteristic patterns of younger people's speech, if noticed and commented upon, are more likely to be judged "sloppy" or "careless" rather than "wrong." First of all, some younger speakers tend to pronounce doubled consonants as if they were single, while older speakers pretty much maintain the distinction between single and doubled consonants. For example, in the word qettaH (He/she keeps on running; qet, run, jog, plus -taH, continuous), an older Klingon would either pronounce each t distinctly, releasing the first one with a puff of air before articulating the second, or else he or she would hold the t just a bit before releasing it, so that the time taken up would be about the same as if each t were articulated separately. A younger speaker, on the other hand, may pronounce the word as if it were {qetaH}, though with the stress remaining on the first syllable as it is in qettaH. Similarly, an older speaker would probably maintain the mm in bommey (songs; bom, song, plus -mey, plural indicator) by either pronouncing each m distinctly or, more likely in this case, prolonging the m; some younger speakers (though a smaller number than in the case of tt) might say bomey, again with stress remaining on the first syllable. Only in the case of '' (as in pa''a' [big room]: pa', room, plus -'a', an augmentative) is there a tendency in both groups to reduce the '' to a single ', though '' (a somewhat prolonged gap between the preceding and following a) is hardly unknown or archaic-sounding. The reduction of doubled consonants to single follows a clear pattern. Those most likely to be reduced are pp, tt, and, as noted above, ''; least likely to be re-duced are ll, mm, nn, ngng, vv, ww, and yy.

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Right. You have three choices. Doubling the consonant is most formal. Geminating the consonant is more casual. Saying it as a single consonant is "sloppy" or "careless". I see now that it is not obvious from our exchange, but my answer assumes that the question is due to RyanZDawson hearing the doubling without geminating in the audio file.

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

These sentence discussions are supposed to have a speaker so we can listen to the audio while we discuss the sentence. There is a bug preventing this and it is not high priority, but should eventuall get fixed. In the mean time, you can hear the audio for this sentence at https://d1vq87e9lcf771.cloudfront.net/tlh_v1/2f50a04cb6bf4e19ecb2fd5af0c7bf03

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

With respect and apologies to the speaker, I'm not impressed. It sounds like wI''ole'laHbe'. The first ' is incorrectly doubled and the first l has a vowel trailing it before the second l is said.

Audio recorders should be more concerned with natural-sounding Klingon than overly careful Klingon.

Here's how the word should really sound (I hope the link works): wI'ollaHbe'

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qov-jIH-je

That's rerecorded. (Rerecorded back when you reported it). I do appreciate the reports.

October 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gypsybird

I'm sorry, but do you mean the pronunciation has been corrected? Because I still hear wI''ole'laHbe' (or wI'ol(I)laHbe'). I think DavidTrimb3's pronunciation is much easier to understand.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qov-jIH-je

Yes, the male voice is still saying wI''ollaHbe'. I assumed it was me, and just re-recorded without clicking through to listen.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

I've rerecorded it. I'm not sure why you guys are hearing a double qaghwI'. Is it that I am holding the consonant a little longer so it is sounding geminated to you? I definitely did not put a puff of air in the middle of my qaghwI' (which would definitely make it sound like a double qaghwI'). I'm not sure that I release the qaghwI' any faster in the new recording, but I do hold the 'It a little longer, so maybe that will give it a more even cadence and not sound like the qaghwI' is being held any longer than the other letters.

As for the double lay, I am definitely doubling it and not geminating it. That extra puff of air may make it sound a little like I am putting a vowel in there, but if you read the quote from KGT that David posted above, you will see that it is a good and standard pronunciation. I would like for learners to both practice hearing the doubled consonant and practice making the doubled consonant.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

The quote says ll is less likely to be reduced to l, not that you pronounce it twice instead of lengthening it. You don't aspirate an l. While I can see the possibility of pronouncing it twice, I think l is one of the most likely to be lengthened instead.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gypsybird

Sorry for replying here, but there was no reply link under your last message from 60 minutes ago. I think the “ll” sounds fine in this recording. I personally prefer gemination, but I’ll practice it this way too (the more formal way, by doubling the consonant). However, when I try to double the consonant, it sounds more like “l’l” (i.e. there is a brief absence of sound between both “l”-s when I pronounce the word); I don’t let my vocal cords vibrate between both “l”-s. I think what happens is you’re letting your vocal cords vibrate between both “l”-s, which is what can give the impression that there is a hidden “e”. Anyway, I’m a newbie so I’m bound to imagine hearing things in the early stages. I appreciate and value your contribution to this course :) Qapla’

December 3, 2019
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