1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Klingon
  4. >
  5. "be' loD je jojDaq ba'taH puq…

"be' loD je jojDaq ba'taH puq."

Translation:The child is sitting between a woman and a man.

February 6, 2019

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LilTweetingBird

I wrote, "The child is sitting in between the woman and the man," and it said it was wrong. But it ought to be correct, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Strictly speaking "in" is unnecessary and some even consider it wrong when "between" is followed by the things that something is between. For those who would treat it as a rule, "in" should only be used when the objects do not follow the word: "The woman and man are sitting there with the child in between." However "in between" is being used more and more often even when it is not necessary and so, I have added it to the accepted translations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LilTweetingBird

Oh, I guess I never realised that "in" was unnecessary. I always thought it was optional. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rog702400

I wrote: "The child sits between the woman and the man" and it was marked incorrect. Could someone explain to me why is it wrong? tlhingan Hol doesn't have tenses so did should be ok, and the and a should be both ok. Is jojDaq ba'taH suggests imperfection or continuity?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

You are correct that ba'taH suggests imperfection or continuity. Klingon doesn't have tenses, but it does have aspect. English includes aspect in it's tenses, so comparing English tenses and Klingon aspects gets complicated. Since this course does not include context with the exercises, we expect you to equate the Klingon suffix -taH with the English ending "-ing". They are not a perfect match, and there can certainly be times when you would use one of those endings in one language without using the other ending in the other language, but we have kept them pretty consistent in the accepted answers in this course. As a result, this sentence can be translated with "is sitting", "was sitting", or "will be sitting", but not with the simple "sits"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rog702400

Thank you for your quick and detailed answer, jdmcowan. I have already met with the Klingon aspects in this course but already forgot about -taH, your explanation have helped me learn the proper usage of the -taH suffix.


[deactivated user]

    Aw, the definite article used with man and woman wasn't accepted, even though it's listed as an option in the drop-down boxes :( I've reported it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

    The definite article is accepted. Many people get this question wrong because they reverse the order of the man and the woman. In the Klingon, the woman is listed before the man and there is no grammatical reason to change the order. Thus we expect you to also list the woman first in the translation.


    [deactivated user]

      I translated this sentence as "The child is sitting between the man and the woman". It was still marked wrong b/c of the definite article.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

      It is not the article which caused this translation to be marked wrong. If you had entered "The child is sitting between the woman and the man," it would have been marked correct. It was marked wrong because you switched the order of the woman and the man.


      [deactivated user]

        derp I feel stupid now. I'm sorry I gave you so much grievance over such a trivial mistake :(


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

        1) When you are learning, such small mistakes can cause a lot of confusion, so they are never trivial.
        2) That's what we are here for.
        3) The basis of training is learning from mistakes. That's true whether it is physical training or mental training. Embrace the mistakes for they are how you will learn!
        4) Don't apologize! When you have learned the replacement proverbs (not taught as such in this course), then they are more appropriate than apologizing. For now, if you must say something, try something more like, "I cause you to be honored, because you help me learn, when I make mistakes."


        [deactivated user]

          You don't happen to have a social media like fb or twitter, do you? It'd be awesome to have you as a friend and easily-reachable teacher :)


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

          I highly recommend the Facebook group called Learn Klingon


          [deactivated user]

            I had no idea there was a group for learning Klingon on fb :) I'll be sure to check it out, thanks!


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stallion230175

            why is this the case? that the feminine noun is before the masculine, and that it matters in tlhIngan Hol?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

            What matters is that you translate using the correct word order.

            be' loD je is "the woman and the man"

            loD be' je is "the man and the woman"

            Both word orders are possible; it's not a grammatical requirement that the feminine or the masculine come first.

            But whichever order is used in one language, you should use the same order in the other language.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stallion230175

            oh,. I see what you mean. I'm surprised this order matters so much, since both convey the same meaning


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

            It's debatable how much it matters. In normal conversation it probably doesn't matter. In this course we have decided to be strict for two reasons. One is that it is standard translation protocol to only change the order when the grammar requires it. And the second reason is to help try to break the habit of some students to try reading the sentence backwards rather than learning how to read the sentence in the proper order.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardOrt706446

            Why doesnt "A child is sitting between A woman and A man" also pass?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

            It should also pass. It is listed as an alternate translation. Did you report it as "my translation should be accepted"? Or did you take a screen shot?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jkiuhjkiu

            I can't unhear him say "loD je jojDaq" as one word, which is kinda annoying.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pi.Matt

            "The child was sitting between the woman and the men." is also a valid translation, but it was reported as having a typo.

            "the women and the men" and "the women and the man" would also be valid.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunchuy

            I do not accept those suggestions as valid. If you make one or both of the man and woman plural, you now have at least three things, and I believe between only makes sense with two.

            It would be okay to have a group of men on one side and a group of women on the other, and to have joj between work with the two groups, but I would expect them to be referred to explicitly as groups.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pi.Matt

            I disagree. Just as you can have a group of women and a group of men which the child can sit between, you can have a a lone woman who is standing apart from a group of men... with a child sitting in the space between. Likewise for a lone man and a separate group of women. Just because the different translations apply to different contexts does not make them invalid.

            If you continue to believe that I am incorrect, please have someone else look at this issue.

            Learn Klingon in just 5 minutes a day. For free.