1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Indonesian
  4. >
  5. "They send a letter to Japan."

"They send a letter to Japan."

Translation:Mereka mengirim surat ke Jepang.

February 6, 2019

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

I have a linguistic question. I've noticed that some words which end in N in English end in NG in Indonesian, e.g. Jepang.

I've also noticed that, in the Javanese script, there is a coda for NG and one for M but none for N. Of course, you could probably write a word final N using na followed by a pangkon to nullify the vowel. But I was wondering if, in general, words just don't end in N in Indonesian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jams_

Makan, bukan, dengan, pertanyaan, delapan, pakaian. I think there are many words that end in N in Indonesian. But really interesting observation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

Thank you. If I would have thought about it more, some of those words would have come to mind. And I'll be very curious to find out how these words that end in N are actually spelled in Javanese script. Thanks again!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

In Javanese, some word is written as "De" but we spell it as "Nde".

It's very difficult language even for a native :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

Thanks for your note, Away54. Are you talking about the Javanese script when you say that some words are spelled as 'nde' but pronounced as 'de'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

DavidHarri227108, I'm not sure about the script but it's Javanese language generally! You may hear this from some village names in some places. We write "Ge" but spell it as "Ngge", "De" but "Nde". Village naming must be very ancient, right? Beyond our great great grandfather. Probably, it's related to the script also.

However, some words are written as it's spelled, such as Ndhe in "Ndherek langkung" ꦤ꧀ꦝꦼꦉꦏ꧀ꦭꦁꦏꦸꦁ which means Excuse me. (Literally, it's "follow the next")

Bonus : We may find Aksara Jawa in Gboard even though it's not perfect. Example: ꦩꦕꦤ꧀ = macan = tiger :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

DavidHarri, nuwun sewu, what do you mean about "coda" for M and not N? Do you mean "Sandhangan" or "Pasangan"? If it's "Pasangan", each letter/font has "Pasangan".

If it's Sandhangan, there is Cecak for NG but is no Sandhangan for M and N. We may use Pangkon for M and N.

Or do I miss something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

As I understand it, you could use the -m coda to write 'kam' (ꦏꦀ) and the -ng coda to write 'kang' (ꦏꦁ) whereas you have to use a 'na' syllable with a pangkon to write 'kan' (ꦏꦤ꧀). Plus there is a coda for -r (kar = ꦏꦂ) and -h (kah = ꦏꦃ). But, if you want to end a syllable in 'n' or any other consonant, you have to use the corresponding letter plus pangkon (virama). Do I have this right?

Thanks in advance,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Awesome, DavidHarri227108!

So, it's Sandhangan Panyigeg

1) Cêcak ꦁ : for -ng

2) Layar ꦂ : for -r

3) Wignyan ꦃ : for -h

However, I couldn't find Sandhangan for -m ꦀ. What's the -m ꦀꦀ coda name in Javanese (which you've written at the above example, ie. "kam")?

For examples:

1) When we write the -m in the middle of sentence, like as "nanêm nanas", it's ꦤꦤꦼꦩ꧀ꦤꦤꦱ꧀, we use Pasangan of na instead of the -m coda.

2) When the ending is -m such as mêndêm, it's ꦩꦼꦤ꧀ꦢꦼꦩ꧀, we use Pangkon!

By the way, virama is a term from Sanskrit, right? I never hear the term in Javanese.

Thanks a lot for your Javanese concern :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

By the way, here's where I got most of my info on the script:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_script

Check the section labeled 'Panyigeging wanda'. It calls it 'nasal', not -m, so maybe I'm wrong. But the example is labeled 'kam'.

Plus here's a page that shows the Unicode codes for each Javanese character and diacritic:

http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/javanese.html

http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/javanese.html

Does that look right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Yes, the -m coda is called as "Panyangga" (its Javanese name). Wiki notes, "usually used in transcription of Balinese lontars for writing the sacred syllable ong ꦎꦀ." It's Hindu.

Yes, all look okay theoretically.

I'm so sorry that I must delete some of my previous messages as they were not sent properly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

Say, if I start another thread for questions about Javanese script, can I direct you to it to provide a couple of additional answers?

One more question for the moment: Was there a time when the Javanese script was used to write Indonesian? Or does what we are talking about here apply only to Javanese language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Sure, DavidHarri it will be great if you can make a separated thread :)

As far as I know, Javanese script was only used by Javanese tribe. "Throughout its history, Javanese script was written in a number of media ranging from stone and metal plates. Javanese script began to be written on paper in the 13th century. This is related to the spread of Islam whose writing tradition is supported by the use of paper and codex book formats. From here, the Javanese Kawi script changed to a modern direction. In the 15th century the Javanese script was often used as everyday writing." (Taken from Kompas). Whilst, bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) was officially born at 1928, October 28th. It's close to bahasa Melayu (Malay language). So, I didn't think that Javanese script was used for Indonesian as both were different language and had different age also.

From here also it seems that Panyangga (ending -m) was not a a part of Javanese script that was correlated with Javanese language written/used by Javanese people in 15th century? It's interesting!

So your question "does we are talking about here apply only to Javanese language? ", I don't know, it's still mystery for me. Your Wiki links looked like mixing all Javanese-related fonts from time to time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Note also that : Aksara Rékan is influenced by Arabic as majority Javanese were Muslims at that time (until now) and recited Quran. They didn't have such as kh- خ, f- ف, gh- غ, dz- ذ ظ, and z- ز so they added some fonts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

Ah, yes, they talk about this in the document I cited above and also here:

https://omniglot.com/writing/javanese.htm

(Search on 'additional consonants' in that document.)

I know the Arabic script well, so I am working on an automatic name converter which will take Roman script as input and output both Arabic and Javanese scripts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

DavidHarri, I find this also:

"Panyangga ( ꦀꦀ ) umumnya hanya digunakan untuk simbol suci Hindu ꦎꦴꦀ Om." See this link https://id.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Indeks:Aksara_Jawa

(However in Wiki the sound is written as "ong" instead of "om". So is it not pure "m"?)

In Indonesian schools (around middle Java), "panyangga" is not taught. Still, they teach "Aksara Rekan" (representation of Arabic sounds).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/footw19

What did I do wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbdullahAAK

difference between mengirimi and mengirim?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mengirim: send - menyampaikan dengan perantara (deliver with mediation).

mengirimi: send to - mengirimkan kepada


Note: "mengirim" has also other meanings like: 1) menugasi, 2) menitipkan barang


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ankojem

"mereka mengirim sebuat surat ke jepang " i just add sebuat and that is correct i think

Learn Indonesian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.