"You are their son."

Translation:Du bist ihr Sohn.

April 8, 2013

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/kedi007

I thought "deren" only meant "whose" (for feminine and plural). Now I find out it also means "their". In that case, are "deren" and "ihr" always interchangeable?

April 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolZaczk

I also had not learned to use "deren", except as a relative pronoun. So I asked my sister-in-law. "Du bist ihr Sohn“ is preferred over "Du bist deren Sohn“, but both are correct. When I remarked that I had learned only the relative use of such pronouns, she replied, "Das brauchst du auch nicht wissen, das sind Feinheiten, die kaum ein Deutscher beherrscht." So, learn it for Duolingo to avoid losing a heart in the "Select all correct answers" exercise. Otherwise, don't worry about it too much.

September 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Racinewrites

In English, a relative pronoun always has an explicit antecedent to which the pronoun refers. There is no explicit antecedent here. In English, "their" in this sentence is a possessive adjective modifying "son." Is this an idiomatic use of the genitive relative pronoun in German?

December 2, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ScottWood2
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I believe it's functioning as a demonstrative pronoun here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declension#Demonstrative_pronouns_.5B4.5D

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MaciLaci

I'm sorry for bringing this up again but I still don't understand and I couldn't find a clue: why "deren" means "their"? I looked up in printed and online dictionaries and grammars but didn't find any mention of this phenomena.

December 18, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/lenvm
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"Deren" means "of them" (it's the genitive aka possessive case).

December 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Clara_Elizabeth

"Deren" is a relative pronoun, oder? So this really is saying "you are the son who is theirs"? Otherwise i don't get it at all. Why not just say "du bist ihr Sohn"?

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolZaczk

This thread is old, but continues to trouble me. Words like "prissy" and "pedant" are hurtful. A language evolves, yes, but not everyone evolves with it. Also a language may evolve in different directions in different countries or regions. Just because something doesn't sound right to you, doesn't make someone else's speech pattern wrong. Dagnabit, I've been speaking English for nearly 6 decades; people still seem to understand my way of speaking. I'll put up with evolution, but request some courtesy from the more evolved beings using this program.

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ScottWood2
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This is an odd comment from someone who repeatedly called "It's me" incorrect/improper elsewhere in the thread... If "It is I" and similar usage is natural to you, that's fine. As the ngram I linked to shows, while "it's me" has been more popular for at least a century, it was only in the past 50 years or so when "It is I" really went out of fashion.

Nonetheless, even if for some people the usage is natural and not pedantic, it is likely to be perceived as overly formal, old-fashioned, etc. I don't think Duolingo would be best serving its users, especially non-native speakers, to portray "It is I" as correct and "It's me" as incorrect. It should accept the former as a variant, but not suggest it.

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolZaczk

Ah yes, it's an odd comment. Perhaps I'm giving up on other people's English grammar to concentrate on German. As long as Duolingo accepts traditional English grammar as well as the more evolved versions, I will be content. Sort of....

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/gjashi

Any source where I can learn these "deren"&"dessen" forms?

April 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeCrVa
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This site does not explain why Deren was used in this answer. ihren makes more sense until further notice...

January 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/lenvm
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Just googled "deren Sohn" and got this explanation: http://german.stackexchange.com/questions/7079/difference-between-ihr-and-dessen The point made on the website is that both "ihr" and "deren" would be ok in the sentence, but that "deren" would be preferable when there are two pronominal referents and thus a need to disambiguate between them. The site explains the point much better than I could. But it still doesn't explain why DL would ask for "deren" here when "ihr" would be much simpler and probably much more commonly used.

January 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Mr.HelloBye
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You're right, ihr is most common, deren is just used to specify which antecedent because ihr can mean her or their.

April 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/GrnpcFTMarkRMOwl
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Seems like the author knew their stuff and wanted to strut it.....to our many ouches....

July 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Manny4us
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But I used "deren" in one other example. Why would it be different here!!???

July 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bumppoman
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I understand why deren works, but why was "Ich bin ihren Sohn" not accepted?

January 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/lenvm
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You mean "Du bist ihren Sohn"? This wouldn't work because "Sohn" has to be in the nominative case here; it's the subject, not the object (English does the same thing: "It is I" is correct in English, while "it is me" isn't). So the sentence would have to be "Du bist ihr Sohn." ("Ihren" would be for the accusative case.)

January 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/RobertNaiman
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A better example for lenvm's original point is "How tall am I?" In this sentence, "I" is in the nominative case. "How tall am me?" would be incorrect. (This is a better example because in this case, "technically correct English grammar" and "English as actually spoken by most native speakers" match perfectly, as they do in the German sentence that we are trying to explain. And, like the German sentence, it is an "equational sentence": the word that is in the position where in an English sentence an object would usually be found is in the nominative case because the verb is a form of "to be.")

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/butterflier

Wait a minute. For how long has the English "It's me" been considered incorrect? Can English native speakers please confirm it?

March 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolZaczk

Confimed. We English speakers do not always use good grammer. Common usage doesnot make it correct. Turn it around: It is I -- I am it. Then there is this one: She sings better than I (do). Many U.S. people say "than me", but they would not say "than me do". Disclosure: I am a fussy science editor, but I still make mistakes. English is hard too.

March 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Catweasel

"grammar".....and no, our (English) grammar is all too often terrible. One of the most common errors is "who" when we mean "whom"...oh, and misspelling "grammar" :p

August 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL
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I'm not a native but I think I know the answer to this: "It's me" is formally, academically incorrect, but common in daily use.

March 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/RobertNaiman
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"It is I" is "technically correct" but if you actually say "It is I" in regular speech people will think you are being pretentious unless you are clearly saying it as a joke. "It's me" is preferred in speech by most people.

May 25, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Clara_Elizabeth

It's technically incorrect but always used. In fact "It's I" sounds utterly silly and "It is I" sounds even worse. Only total pedants would say it in spoken speech and they would be laughed at. You would want to get it right in writing though.

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/butterflier

Can't say it's making my life any easier, as from what I see, there is no common view on the matter even among English native speakers themselves, let alone foreigners like myself. Anyway, thank you, Clara_Elizabeth, and everyone who has responded. Looks like no language can be considered an established formation, but should be treated as an eternally developing organism instead.

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Clara_Elizabeth

In real life English it's very easy, you always say "it's me" unless maybe you are talking to a really prissy english professor, and how likely are you to do that? In duolingo you have to learn what they want, as you do with any learning programme. It's slightly annoying sometimes but it's FREEEEEE and massively better than many of the paid ones. :)

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/RexVH
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Everyone is in agreement.

"It is I" is grammatically correct, but rarely used in everyday speech.

"It is me" is grammatically incorrect, but most commonly used in everyday speech.

It's as easy as that.

June 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolZaczk

How is one to get it correct in writing if one doesn't learn it through speaking? I don't go around correcting people's speech; I'm not qualified and that would be rude. However, a language learning program should not teach improper grammar (especially this program, which exists to train people to translate written work). Imagine the poor German student complaining to Duolingo that "it is me" doesn't follow the rule.

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Clara_Elizabeth

Mmmm. Not convinced that teaching people something that is completely out of use except in high academia (if there) is really doing anyone any favours. But it doesn't really matter. Non-native English speakers will quickly learn that saying "it is I" is not the way to blend in to an everyday American - or even British - conversation. Do I criticise Duolingo? No. I am super grateful for the free language lessons, let them have their quirks. But I will continue to tell non-native speakers that "it is I" is only technically correct and completely and totally not in use, really anywhere. It is better to be happy than to be right.

March 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/lenvm
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This strange thread has gone way off the rails. I apparently touched it off by giving "It is I" as a simple example of grammatical case, not as a prescription for how people are always supposed to talk. "It is me" is of course preferred in everyday English speech, but it makes the concept of case harder to convey. If I were to express the same thought in German, the subject could at the end of the sentence, but this subject would still need to be in the nominative case.

This helps one to understand why, when Germans express this thought, they always say one of two things:

-"Das bin ich" (it is I) NEVER "Das bin mich" (it is me), or -"Ich bin es"

As a side note, the change from "das" to "es" looks confusing on the face of it, but I suppose it's the same in English with "it" and more especially in French with variations on "ce" providing a kind of introductory word.

In English case is often irrelevant because sentence order matters in a way that it doesn't in German. So, sure, you can say "It is me" but it's helpful to know that "It is I" is technically correct -- helpful NOT BECAUSE we all must speak "proper English" but because it'll help you to understand one aspect of German.

I picked up some of this from a book I looked at ages ago called "English Grammar for German Students." The premise is that English speakers should reflect on English grammar so as better to learn German grammar. In learning to speak one language better, you learn to speak others better as well.

In German, sentence order matters for style and tone more than for grammar: thus Germans generally tend to put the most important information in a sentence at the beginning, whereas English speakers generally put the important information last. "Das bin ich" is what you would say to identify yourself casually on the phone: "yeah, it's just me, but you already know that." "Ich bin es" is what you'd say to single yourself out from a range of other possibilities -- as, for instance, to confess to a murder in a detective novel.

Look at the lovely discussion of "The Position of the Nominative Subject" at this page:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/Grammatik/WordOrder/WordOrder.html

My point was just to explain the concept of case by providing an English example. I should have just picked something that everyone would agree on, e.g, "Take I out to the ballgame" would sound funny during the seventh-inning stretch.

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/L5730
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why ihr, not ihres.

Son = Sohn (m) = Des

Your = ihr + es = ihres.

I cannot work this one out

December 4, 2014
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