https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soolrak

Important update coming to Duolingo...

Dear Duolingo staff,

Any time there is an important update, PLEASE let us know by any of you instead of facing the update like a punch in the face, I am exactly talking about this situation.
At the beginning the XP thing was an unofficial thing (people asking if it was a bug or a real update) and then someone from the staff confirmed it; Why didn't you guys take 2 minutes to publish it in the forums and make it sticky, like that multilingual couples thing you have now? It seems you guys are getting too good in advertising yourselves and too good in forgetting about updating the community.

And yes, I am pretty mad at this change.

Best,
Angry Soolrak

March 5, 2019

123 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WarriorCleberz

For me this update was unnecessary and demotivating, there are other things to improve !!!

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lightning_11

I don't like this at all! Now I am at a huge loss for making up XP because everyone on my ALL TIME scoreboard had a way of getting LOTS of XP that I no longer have! I think this is VERY unfair and demotivating. PLEASE REVERT THIS OR SOMETHING!

This kind of thing could get a lot of people to LEAVE duolingo...

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Breandn

100% THIS

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmg126

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the situation, but I seem to gain more XP when I test out of a skill. Instead of 50XP it's 250 (or something to that effect)

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeborahGal13

Not anymore.

March 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rebotante

Agree. Even it is illogical, that you rise only one level with 10 or more gold skills...

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kayl575411

And even then, they're just fake points with no monetary value anyways. I liked getting lots of fake points at once!

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PangurBan2019

Hey! That was how I was getting all of my XP! I was saving up for it!

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicolettalut9

what are you saving up for? what can you save up for?

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shivani25

You buy bragging rights with them.

March 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/San_0

Hey there, so as a relatively new user, I think that you look super cool with all those 10+ flags, most of them sporting the number 25. I'll just use you as an example here, I hope you don't mind it.

Such coolness from users like you had motivated me to level up ASAP, and that felt achievable... But now, because of the new change, it will take me about 3 months just to go from level 24 to 25 in my German course. Which also means that I will never ever be anywhere as cool as you are here. And many other users will feel so frustrated with this new cap that they may even leave Duolingo for good.

So that now I think that the level system should be discontinued. Reaching level 25 is unrealistic or too demanding to be considered as a goal.

I'd rather see cool profiles like yours sporting only flags, without any numbers. Your profile would still look cool (wow, look at that guy learning so many languages!) without the problematic companion numbers.

Chances are low, but I hope that someone from Duolingo team reads this and degamify this dismaying level system.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sousoudoudo

agree

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olaf.Rabbachin

Do you think they'd listen? I don't think they'll ever read this at all.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISpeakAlien

Name one unpleasant feature/removal of a feature that they have changed their mind about. I don't think there is even a single one.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garpike

When Japanese & Mandarin were first ported to the web, there were no typing exercises, just tiles. DL rectified this quite quickly after many complaints on the forum. This could have been DL's intention all along, and the tiles-only situation was a temporary measure—I don't know—although it didn't feel like it at the time.
Also, DL added testing-out with crowns in the first place after user pressure here.

I'm struggling to think of any other examples, but they might well exist. A combination of many upvotes and well-reasoned dissenting posts on DL's decisions are not necessarily a waste of time.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FRENCHCHEF9

BOO THE CHANGE The more lessons you are passing means the more you are completing in a single test, therefore it should be worth more XP. >:(

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khaiel

Duolingo staff members and team have left the chat But seriously though, nothing? With a ship-ton of complaints about this idiotic update, no Duolingo member of any sorts have given any updates on anything, no sticky's about potential change, none of that. I know Duo is better than this, they just made the wrong move. . .

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FC_Barcelona_EGB

I don't know if they'll listen, but I know that they are reading our comments, because I once wrote a comment and thesame day I got an answer.

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EL5tEL

I agree that there should be better communication. Duolingo uses gamification to teach language which I love - but changing the rules of the game can be frustrating - and not communicating that the rules have changed is even more frustrating.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeborahGal13

Yes, exactly.

March 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkTerpstra1

Yes, some kind of news-feed with updates from the duolingo staff would be useful as it seems they change things out of the blue all the time.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerrArbo

often it's an A/B test. It's how they work out what's received the best by the users. It can be annoying though.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohoutseks

This is no A/B testing though.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Songve

Sometimes the blue is literal. One day I went into a Vietnamese sentence discussion and they had all the words in blue...except the newest word. I rolled in to get clarification on the new, not the old words from many lessons ago.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Songve

POPULAR...NEW...FOLLOWED...UPDATES

Doesn't seem like an Alan Turing type would be need to simply add a fourth Discussion topic. Or if lack the space, simply eliminate the worthless Popular topic. There is no rhyme or reason how the posts from the common man end up there. All the sticky wickies can go to the Update and put a sort function to include the popular, oldest, newest, etc.

Make the Update discussion so that no comments are made to clutter it up and use up staff time monitoring. There is always someone who copies them and posts them in the New for comment.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterPan173079

My brain is unable to parse your writing.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

@PeterPan173079 and @Songve My brain hurts too... :D I think we will need to translate the post by @Songve into fluent sarcasm..? :) I also don't know what to copy and post like a new comment, because then it is by nature not new anymore... Do people really copy-paste comments?? I don't get it, but I will give some lingots to both of you. Copy that ;-)

March 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

Hi Soolrak,

TL;DR:

  1. It's likely still an A/B test, in which case still nothing to be announced (as A/B tests are silent).
  2. XPs (hence levels) are not a measure of accomplishment but of quantity of work provided/put into validating lessons/skills/crowns.

Any time there is an important update, PLEASE let us know by any of you instead of facing the update […] Why didn't you guys take 2 minutes to publish it in the forums and make it sticky,

the thing is that it's very likely not yet an update, but likely (still) only an A/B test.
Indeed,

  1. there are still the two A/B tests retention_nerf_testout_xp and retention_nerf_testout_xp_fix that are setup. Once since last December, the other one since a few days ago. Hence, those A/B tests are very likely(°) still ongoing.
  2. A/B tests are meant to be "silent" hence, there are not meant to be announced.

a

Note: not saying Duo will announce it once it'll be fully released, nor that they've done good job in the past on announcing new feature (once they were deployed to all users).
Only saying that in that case, it's likely that there were simply still nothing to announce: A/B tests being meant to be "silent" hence --- if it's indeed still an A/B test (as it's likely the case) ---, then nothing were to be announced yet.

And yes, I am pretty mad at this change.

Personally, I don't find it bad and I even find it in fact quite logical.
Reading the comments here and there, I have the impression that the community forgot or don't know what XPs are: a metrics that measures the "quantity of work put into validating lessons".
XPs (thence levels) are not:

  • a measure of number of validated lessons "crowns" and "number of validated lessons (inside a crown level)" numbers are the measures of that;
  • a measure of accomplishment
    final trophies (and crowns) are the measures of that;
  • even less a measure of proficiency
    Duo stoped to make as if it was able to accurately measure that ("Fluency" metrics was in the past the one attempting to render that)

XPs are only a measure of the quantity of work provided/put into validating lessons.

And, when one tests out, one only devotes a quantity of work that corresponds to validating (around) 20 exercises.
On the other hand, to validate all the lessons of a crown level, one has to devote a quantity of work corresponding to validating a number of exercises equals to (around) 10 times the number of lessons (in that crown level of that skill).
Therefore, since XPs measures a quantity of work provided and since one doesn't provide the same quantity of work/time to validate 20 exercises than to validate 450 of them (nor 70 of them, etc.), then it's logical one doesn't earn the same amount of "quantity of work rewards" (=XPs) for testing out a crown level than for validating all the lessons of that crownlevel one by one.

Note: not saying that measuring the "quantity of work" is the best metrics (nor even that it's a very useful one; it can be a motivating one for part of the learners, though) and/or that it shouldn't be accompanied by other metrics (in addition to "crowns, trophies, etc.). Neither that Duo explains well enough what XPs are.
Only saying that given the fact of what XPs are her to measure --- namely the quantity of work devoted/put into validating lessons/skills --- then the previous situation was the non-logical one since it was measuring your 20 exercises-long quantity of work as if it was a 10*N exercises-long (=450 for a 9 lessons skill passing from crown 4 to 5; or 50 for a 5 lessons skill passing from crown 0 to 1; etc.) quantity of work.


(°) only "very likely", because from our side we cannot exclude the the possibility that the A/B tests is still setup but everybody is in the "have the new feature" group. However, since they are recent A/B tests, it's not that likely to be the case.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jam890908

Not speaking to this specific change, but A/B tests in general: They should really be opt in / opt out. Meaning, you opt in or out of the possibility of being included in an A/B test. Otherwise, they are potentially damaging the learning of existing users who may want no part in their experiments, just so that they can try things, while expecting the users to trust that whatever change they try next is for the better, which is incredibly unprofessional. Could you imagine any paid service getting away with something like that in the same way? Why is it that we give more slack to services like these just because they're "free," even when they treat their users poorly? It's not as though Duolingo is doing this all volunteer. It isn't some couple in their living room trying to help people out on weekends. It's a business and businesses are supposed to have standards. (As an aside, I feel I should be clear here: I understand there are volunteers who aid in building the language trees. As far as I'm aware, however, these people have no actual control over what gets implemented in the app or how it's run. Which is actually more reason to be questioning the way Duo runs things, given that they are taking the free labor and then moving the app in whatever direction they feel like.)

Furthermore, part of the problem with A/B tests seems to be that there is no communication on what was learned from them or what purpose they were supposed to serve. If you're going to force a change on a portion of users, you could at least do them the courtesy of explaining after the fact what you were trying to figure out.

From the outside in, it just comes across like A/B tests are little more than a way for Duo to see how people react to a change before applying it to the entire app. Like it's more about software testing and marketing than it is anything to do with actual learning.

When a company stays mostly silent while making regular changes that upset people, people are going to assume all kinds of negative things that instead could be nipped in the bud just by communicating properly. It's very reminiscent of Youtube in that way. So far in my experience with this app, it seems to be run in much the same way. To its credit, I did see a developer responding in the major thread about leaderboards being added. But only in the capacity of answering some concerns about it going forward and things they were considering down the road for it. No actual learning-based explanation for why leaderboards are supposed to help learning or what any of it has to do with the long-term roadmap for the app and its future. The only thing we have to go on most of the time is Duo's mission statement, which doesn't seem to be a high priority in my time here.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

They should really be opt in / opt out.

It would defeat the purpose as it would bias the results: people having negative a priori about the change would opt-out (or not enter) and those having a positive a priori would stay (or opt-in).
The idea of A/B tests (not talking about Duo in particular) is not to know what users prefer, nor what they think is better (in general and even less for them) but to find what actually works better for the person/company running the test (=accordingly to criteria that the person/company running the A/B test has decided to be its goals).

Why is it that we give more slack to services like these just because they're "free,"

Many companies use them. AFAIK, Google for instance.

As far as I'm aware, however, these people have no actual control over what gets implemented in the app or how it's run.

Indeed.

then moving the app in whatever direction they feel like

The idea of A/B tests is exactly to not "move to what they like" but to check that what they think might be better (again, with respect to the criteria/goals they decided to be the importan one for their company) is indeed better on average on all users (not the "on all users" and not "for all users": again, it's not about what users prefer, nor think is better (in general nor for them)).

Furthermore, part of the problem with A/B tests seems to be that there is no communication on what was learned from them

I definitively agree.
That's said, I can understand that, with more than 1600 A/B tests currently running, it can be hard to keep users informed ( once they are concluded) about those A/B tests. And it would flood the forums if posted there, and would be barely see anyway if posted elsewhere.
And not even speaking about the difficulty to make announcement for each concluded A/B tests in each source language that Duo supports (one wouldn't want only English speakers to be notified, no?).

or what purpose they were supposed to serve.

The purpose is always to check if, on average on all users, the change tested gives better results for Duolingo (=for what they chose to be their criteria).

From the outside in, it just comes across like A/B tests are little more than a way for Duo to see how people react to a change before applying it to the entire app. Like it's more about software testing and marketing than it is anything to do with actual learning.

For any company using A/B tests, they are a way to reach the goals they have fixed to themselves.

When a company stays […] statement, which doesn't seem to be a high priority in my time here.

Again, I fully agree Duo should communicate more and better. And not only about A/B tests. And should do it on its forums (not on external media).
I agree

  • as a user
    just one example: I'd have liked to have been notified that the "full name" field, which is a private personal information, was now displayed on profile pages. I'd have even more liked to be notified when it, at first, started to be displayed on apps (forums, leaderboard (I believe), etc.), hence publicly. Not using the apps but only website, one cannot know that Duo is sharing publicly one's private information that one think was kept between Duo and oneself (has falsly seemingly confirmed by the fact that said information was not anywhere on website).
  • as a moderator
    • as it would allow me to better assist users.
    • as it would help reduce the repetitive questions and/or complains on forums
    • but also to be better informed about changes A/B tested on mods' tools
  • as a contributor
    • as it would allow me to better assist users: not knowing what technical change may be tested, I cannot understand some strange behaviours users are reporting.
    • but also to be better informed about changes A/B tested on contributors' tools
March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yPdb0ets

I am sorry, I did not understand what you meant by " "full name" field, which is a private personal information ", in your example. What names can be seen on app that cannot be seen on web (and is it also like that for profiles that do not have app)? And where is that "full name" field on web Duo? As far as I know Duo itself says that it is forbidden sharing personal information ..

March 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

What names can be seen on app that cannot be seen on web

Only the "(full) name" field if you have defined it in your profile's settings (first field there).
You didn't define anything so for your account nobody can see this (empty) field.

And where is that "full name" field on web Duo?

On profile pages.
Your profile page is yPdb0ets but nothing visible for you since you didn't define this field.

As far as I know Duo itself says that it is forbidden sharing personal information ..

Yes, that's also why it makes no sense to me.
It seems Duo doesn't consider it as being a personal information... despite it being one of the first/most basic personal information.

March 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oruga_fantasma

Thank you for explaining this!

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

It's likely still an A/B test, in which case still nothing to be announced (as A/B tests are silent).

It was announced a few weeks ago in the Leaderboard topic:

Question from jdsaxton:

What are people going to get 150, 300, 400, 210 scores in one go?

Answer from SeanColombo:

Test outs. We're fixing this imbalance though. Should be live in a couple of weeks.

It would have been much better if they had made a sticky announcement at that time.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

I am delighted with this change as should be anyone who is here to genuinely learn. The way points could more easily be obtained by skipping material than by learning it has been a disincentive to really fully engage with the material duolingo provides for us.

Testing out should be a way to find the right place for one to work not an end in itself.

I am quite competitive but I want to use competition to motivate myself to work harder not to gloss over valuable material. Now it will be easier to see who is genuinely working hard rather than simply accumulating points for the sake of it.

The spinning of the xp metre when you tested out was much too satisfying. I am glad to have that temptation removed. I want to maximise learning not xp collection.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtemVysotsky

With all due respect for your right to your opinion, I disagree. The appeal of Duolingo is that it combines learning with a sort of game. We are all here of our own free will and should have the right to enjoy this in the way we all like. We are not fifth graders in school who have to be forced to study each lesson. If a person feels that he is better served by testing out of a lesson — and if he PASSES A TEST — then he should not be "punished" for it by receiving a smaller reward in the end.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wyqtor
  • 1679

Agreed. Forcing advanced students who have already mastered Basics 1 to repeat it ad nauseam - and to add insult to injury, giving them only 20 points for that - will only discourage them.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wolhay

But you're not forced to repeat it. You can still test out and do the lessons that you feel are appropriate.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tachy90

Broadly agreed that Duo is supposed to be gamelike, and that is part of the point . . . but when you have users fixating on "someone (a complete stranger) is getting TOO MUCH XP" when they could instead be focusing on their own learning, something somewhere has clearly gone horribly wrong.

Also like, the different courses are not balanced for difficulty anyway, they're basically discrete courses. My progress through my French tree is in no way comparable to someone else's progress through the Japanese tree. It's absurd to think we're competing.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WinterSoldier.

I applaud you Tachy90, well said

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/7RmZbvr0

And with all respect for yours - the xp are not the reward; the reward is knowing more of a language. The purpose of testing out isn't to accrue masses of xp, it's to skip the lessons you don't need (because you already know those aspects of your target language) to get to the lessons you do need.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soolrak

I totally get your point. My main point in the topic though is seeing some official information about an update. Official meaning by someone from staff.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISpeakAlien

The spinning of the xp metre when you tested out was much too satisfying.

Just set your daily goal to 1 XP and however little you do, it will spin around several times.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/personalprism

Honestly that’s a brilliant point, I’m going to go do that. I didn’t even realize I liked the fast spinning until it was gone.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Damditty

Please explain how to do less than one (10 XP) lesson to earn your 1 XP. When I tried it, my progress on that lesson was all lost. Thank you.

April 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sousoudoudo

Buy timed practice :)

April 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerrArbo

it seems fair to me - xp should be for what you've learnt, if you can skip out of 5 crowns that is clearly not 300xp worth of work. I was slightly disappointed when starting to make the first half of my German tree gold brought me up by 5 levels when I had learnt nothing new, I just wanted my gold back. Now I can make it gold and remain at a true-ish level.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melyndi

exactly! It also makes the leader boards more competitive because you won{t have people racking up thousands of points by testing out of easy stuff. If you want to be at the top you need to actually earn it

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VakkerKriger

I find the leaderboards pointless anyway. It announces you as the winner for one second and then it’s over. Big deal.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LlamasintheMist

How on earth can getting points disincentivize anything? They are meaningless pixels on a screen without the learning aspect.

No one will be accumulating points for its own sake. Or they would just play world of warcraft or something. I tested out a lot for points but that was knowing that if I wasn't good at it I woudn't get it.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinneleken

Look I hate to break this to you, but everything is worthless. Nothing has meaning unless we give it some. People like XP. XP has meaning because people value it.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerrArbo

To add to this - the entire purpose of Duolingo is to gameify language learning. As a result, points are a major element of the experience.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Damditty

A lingot for pinneleken.

April 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yetanothername

Well, it wasn't a disincentive for me. I didn't even know testing out rewarded you with lots of XP.

It's like when I used the app instead of the web version and I was startled to find out that I could open chests full of lingots? Wow!

I still rarely use the app.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Imperial

Let's face it. They won't listen. I doubt they'll do anything let alone read it... This change is irritating for us all but I generally think they'll just go ahead of it, and ignore our plea.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/milanezi

So now I have to type sentences such as "La robe est rouge" one million times to get to level 25, like that's gonna happen xD

I only came back to Duolingo BECAUSE they added the test-out option, I'll keep testing out but I and most people here will have a bitter taste for not having that 25 number next to flags. Most will quit sooner or later.

However it will be sweet since their plan to force me to spend more time on the app will be ineffective on me. Up until now DL was my only exception in my ad-blocker. Welcome Duolingo.

BUT I expect the majority being so pissed about this to start leaving in droves. Keep in mind, this is very fresh and people are only starting to notice this new "feature".

I mean, who had this brilliant idea to force people to type "Je suis medecin", "Me gustan las fiestas" for 50 times? Do they really think this will work for their app? New people will come, complete first two levels in slow mode, MAYBE three, and when their jaws drop seeing the likes of "2/30" they're going to rage quit at once. That's what I did this summer since test-outs weren't available.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohoutseks

I'll probably quit sooner rather than later. My friends will probably find me better sources to learn Indonesian and Japanese, rather than sit and hear me complain about a game that sucks.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/milanezi

That's basically it. DL is helpful and fun when you're a beginner, at some point you really feel you've overgrown the course and want to do something more serious. It's the beginning of the end of the work on that tree, you quit sooner or later.

Those fast XP were however the thing that could make you stay until you hit lvl 25 or until you make everything gold, you have that gamy itch.

Now that's gone, that was the only way to keep a serious, advanced learner using the app, other than starting a new language - but that kind of learners don't start a new language every month or two, six or twelve.

This change doesn't affect anyone who actually likes going through all the reps and on the other hand kills other people's wish to keep using the app. It only "helps" those people who think it's unfair that someone else can make it to the top of some leader board by "cheating". I highly doubt these people are more numerous than the ones actually annoyed with this update, so it really baffles me , what's the motivation for it.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

If people can cheat, who are they cheating on? I don't know how some people are hacking or cheating. It is probably only a few people and they only cheat themselves. One cannot cheat on being able to understand or speak a language. For most people Duo is about learning the basics or maintaining languages. I liked that the test-out could sometimes give lots of XP's. Then I knew that I was good at the language and it was fun. Also the timed practice was fun. Now everything is slow. It will take forever to finish a level.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

You are sooo right!

Everyone who learns seriously uses XP to get that 25-badge or to make a friendly competition. If a test-out does not give extra, then it becomes boring...!

There are limits to how many repetitions a person can make. It has now become the world's slowest game. Boredom is not a good learning style...

I had a goal of reaching some of those who have large amounts of XP. It is impossible now. They earned their XP before the new system and it is not possible to reach them in this life.

I used to use Duolingo as a fun supplement to books and conversations. Now it's no longer fun. I hope they return to the old XP-system... soon.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevoMucho

For me, with the ability to skip gone, there's now no helpful moderate challenge anymore: it's either grind really basic lessons painfully slowly and repetitively or do a full test out of the entire tree. Way to kill the fun.

May 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/compsognathus

The XP cap is unfair! Duo Team is in there! Standing at the concession! Plotting our oppression!

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WinterSoldier.

@comsognathus, I am inclined to agree. Duo doesn't want anyone to succeed. All they are after is the $$$, by gosh they won't get one cent of my hard earned money. I'd prefer to see it burn than give it to them, no plus for me!

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/compsognathus

A bit dramatic, WinterSoldier, but I completely understand and agree with your thoughts!! :D

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

gave you a lingot for that dank spongebob reference.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/compsognathus

Haha, thank you ! ;D

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wyqtor
  • 1679

I concur; at the very least, they should at least show a minimum courtesy towards their paying customers (PLUS subscribers) by announcing them of any changes.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alpha3099

Please don't announce to me of any changes. I don't care that much. I get my weekly progress email and that is enough. As a paying customer, I would kindly ask to be excluded.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SecretlyAHippo

Certainly agree with this. Duolingo should certainly post something. A Sticky post or something by HelpfulDuo, the staff account. Something. I cannot imagine this would take that long. Certainly would like to see them respond more to people.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohoutseks

More like UnhelpfulDuo, at this point.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevenJ.Sacco

What happened to 20 lessons equaling 200 XPs?

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Myrrael

First point: Yes, please. A recent update/ patch/ whatever sticky is quite important. Kinda weird there isn't something like this, already.

Second point : I just assumed they implemented this due to people abusing the test out feature to score high on the leaderboards. I'm not saying leaderboards are the devil incarnate, but I never really saw the point, myself. ( I'm here to learn a language, not compete in some kind of race. )

Now that an action that seems to be related to leaderboards is also influencing the rest of the program/ courses/ community... well, that's ridiculous.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

Yes, you are right. One Lingot for that :-) I think also it is very random who rankes high on the leaderboard. But it's fun to compete against a friend where you are about equal in a language (not on the leaderboard). I discovered one day that I had won on a leaderboard, but I do not know what to use it for. I think everyone wins sooner or later on the leaderboard. If it motivates someone to learn it is good. The only thing I really take seriously is whether I learn something. I do not think that one can learn a language at Duolingo, but it is a good daily exercise that is easy to carry in your pocket .. I think text books and conversations are better. Duolingo is a good reminder to maintain the basics of the languages every day. It's also a little fun game, even though it now seems slower to get XP's... Zzzz Zzzz

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Langophobe

Now this is really going to suck when they combine it with having to pay lingots to test out, which I also believe is in the A/B phase.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanC798471

They need to find something to do with lingots

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Markulon

Ian, are you suggesting that a green cartoon owl in a gold track suit isn't motivation enough for earning lingots? ;)

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Damditty

A lingot for you.

April 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khaiel

Just a few complaints if anyone's curious ;)

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohoutseks

Thank you for the links mate!!

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khaiel

no prob

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

Thanks.. one lingot for that :-) ..now we can all go there and vote for the best suggestions!

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kurarararura

Seriously? I leave Duolingo alone for a week to focus on other areas of life and this is what I come back to? 20 measly XP?

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

It would be great if Duolingo were more transparent about changes like this one. I like the idea of a sticky post for it. And I prefer being informed about planned changes in advance instead of being "surprised" by them.

Apart from this I don't care if I get 20 XP or 200 XP for testing out (and I tested out a lot recently).

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Dmonocle

Duolingo.. please return to the previous XP-system.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pouyan74

Meanwhile in Duolingo HQ: Mmmm... What should we do to discourage our users and make them leave?

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Acemondo

Duolingo wants more money. How do they think they'll achieve that?

  1. Ads. But that was not enough money
  2. Duolingo PLUS. But there are not enough PLUS subscriptions according to them. So they want to incite user to subscribe. How can you do that? By implementing a two speed system, very like F2P crappy games on your phone, people are used to that with games.
  3. Skipping lessons now cost lingots. but that wasn't enough still since people were full of lingots and therefore were not limited fast enough by this implementation. They then needed to push people to skip more lessons, to reach their daily goal, therefore...
  4. Decreasing the XP reward. People will fall short on lingots and will not want to do lessons 1 by 1, that should raise the PLUS subscription count.

From a business perspective, that is quite logical unfortunately. Just hope that won't go further as this is literally decreasing quality for profit. I feel that's actually already a bit too much.

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stergi3

I think the new system doesn't like at all testing. I can accept this if it is accompanied by a motivational tip. For instance the new leadeboard is something really new and motivating.

Duolingo doesn't like demotivation by default. I also I don't like extreme scores of thousands of XPs per week, it is so frustrating for the others, especially for club members.

I would prefer a system of fluency meter, as it was in the past. I also find extremely difficult to make your tree all gold now, too many repetitions! A system of frequent repetitions, but not boring ones it would be ideal. A system that motivates you to study difficult topics, as it is prepositions in German for instance, it would be nice too.

Last but not least I would like a smarter system counting the number of faults to reinforce you in your weak topics and motivate you to repeat it.

March 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kayl575411

So, count a test-out as 20XP on the leaderboard, but fully toward your level in a language.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stergi3

I agree. It is demotivating. But I would like a compensation in the leaderboard. After all testing option rewards learners with a number of virtual coins, that is lingots, crowns and XPs. The number of lingots is the same, the crowns are the the same, the XPs has been deflated. Testing for gaining XPs is something, but it is not everything. Leaderboard is a new coin. More "coins" can be invented. It doesn't make my fluency better. We are completely absorbed and focus on game and not language learning. After all, you can test anytime to avoid eternal repetition, it is not changed and if I am bored, I do it. Less XPs? Okay. It doesn't matter, it is a new assignment environment, new rules, so what? I change my standards and go on... I have been using Duolingo for almost 3 years so far, and I have seen a lot of changes. I can live with 20 XPs in testing :)

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanspersson

Have a look at the top subjects and see how many are variations about "you changed test out to 20 XP change it back!!!" and then tell me again how a sticky thread would have made any difference whatsoever.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PannasOwen

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! please! how can you give us 20 xp for completing a lesson without hints, and tougher sentences(sometimes mind blowingly repetitive) and three hearts. cruel

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PannasOwen

The most annoying part, as Angry Soolrak put it, "a punch in the face." Why couldn't they have made a post about it

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/psbpablo

I am very surprised that in this ear of Social Media Duolingo never responds to our issues. The points change is not a big deal but the terrible diction of the two Spanish speakers really annoys me. The woman sounds like she is auditioning for a Telenovela on Telemundo.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oruga_fantasma

She always sounds angry to me.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ondotarro

There is an appropriate name for this: S-A-B-O-T-A-G-E.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pearl184092

yes this change is awful, i already left a bad review on the app because i thought it was a bug, its an awful update, im leaving that one star until its changed or not

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohoutseks

Me too, I will one star the app when I get home even though I deleted the stupid app weeks ago.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ikuusi

I think this is what will finally make me delete Duolingo.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RachelF12345

I agree that they should have told us beforehand, and I find the new update very demotivational. It's pretty frustrating and I honestly don't like it. There are many other things that could have been improved. I do really love Duolingo though, and my main goal is to learn here.

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WitlessBittern

For the record, I did not foresee my original post getting so much attention!

March 6, 2019

[deactivated user]

    Change your daily xp to Casual and just do that minimum. Other users from another discussion suggested it, as a way to boycott the change in testing out.

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SilentShuffle

    I've set up a poll to find out what percentage of users support/oppose the cap: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31170689

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

    I really wish they would completely do away with points, lingots, gems, achievements and whatever else there may be. I want to learn languages, not rack up meaningless points. All this palaver is a massive waste of time.

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bigbenisboss

    thanks and i agree about disliking it

    March 6, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreddyBGood

    People.... please don't lose sight of the goal. We are using Duolingo to learn a language. We are not here to get labelled as experts or to show the world that we haven't missed a day doing the course. Sure these things help motivate us... but to let something like this spoil our day! I for one appreciate Duolingo, it is a great way for us all to better ourselves. Cheers!

    March 6, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/torbenhhansen

    haha, agree..

    March 6, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmg126

    100% in agreement

    March 11, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scipio60

    I never tested out once. If I know the material, then I review it. Until I am fluent no worries.

    March 6, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodil2015

    Try it once. Just do 9/10 lessons if you like going through the lessons and then try the test-out feature. It is a lot more challenging than the actual lessons and it gives you a more accurate picture of where you are.

    March 6, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DUOLINGO_DELETUS

    Duolingo has stopped giving me DETERMINATION Save? Yes ❤No

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/odonkor_1990

    can someone explain me whats this about, because i did not understand that change well oO

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/San_0

    @odonkor_1990 I bet you know by now, but here it goes:

    Test-out: a WEB feature, accessible via a button shaped like a key when you click on a skill. It is used to complete a skill quickly. The questions are a little bit harder and you can make up to 3 mistakes. By passing the Test-Out, you are rewarded with XP and a Crown. The problem here is the change in the amount of XP:

    Previously, the user was rewarded 10 * X, being X the number of lessons on the skill. If the 5th level of a skill had 70 lessons, then the user would had been rewarded with 700 XP.

    However, from now on, each Test-Out will only give yo the fixed amount o 20 XP, no matter what. This way, you can only get 100 XP from each skill (5 levels * 20 XP), which is a ridiculous amount of XP, compared to the hundreds that you used to get before.

    Remembering that it takes 30000 XP to reach level 25 (max), it's understandable why so many people are mad about that change.

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AceOfBens

    I understand from a lot of other people's comments that some users were taking advantage of the "Test Out of This Skill" feature to get ahead in the Leagues, but that's such a lame excuse to me. What's the point of the Leagues in the first place? To show the community you have more time to blow throw language skills? Although the competition can be a fun feature, the Leagues seem pointless to me, too.

    Furthermore, I hate the fact that testing out of a skill no longer gives the same amount of the experience points. I'm majoring in Spanish at a university and started using this account a couple weeks ago to start over on the Spanish tree. I've only caught up Part 2 out of 7 so far, but I had finished the tree before. I don't want to do 40+ lessons on topics I already know, yet that's the only way to have my level and XP count show what I know.

    I understand the argument that testing out of a skill takes about the same amount of time as doing two lessons. I do. But measuring someone's experience or ability in a language is not the same as measuring how much time they spend practicing it.

    At the end of the day, Duolingo is just another educational game, but these new updates are still discouraging to some using it as a game and as a source of education. I sincerely hope the Duolingo team will see everyone's complaints and take them seriously enough to either revert back to the old XP system or seriously improve on the one they just gave us.

    March 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicolettalut9

    we don't really need this update

    March 8, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simon.A.Baltz

    Lingot

    March 8, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FC_Barcelona_EGB

    Please go to this site and vote if you like the new update: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31170689

    March 8, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinkNTeddy

    I don't test out so it didn't effect me that's probably why I didn't notice

    March 8, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeborahGal13

    That irked me, finding out after testing out of a level and receiving 60 fewer XP than I was expecting. I test out of levels because I hate doing 2 lessons a day takes forEVer. I also like getting XP. New change=meh.

    March 9, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MAKAFAT

    I was so crucial, they could at least make it half of the normal XP....

    March 10, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dud_raj

    For me update is very important.

    April 11, 2019
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