"Kaʻiulani is a woman who loves to sing."

Translation:He wahine puni hīmeni ʻo Kaʻiulani.

March 8, 2019

This discussion is locked.


I'm having trouble telling when "ka" should be included and when it should be left out.


and (sort of) likewise, could "he wahine puni i ka hīmeni 'o ka'iulani" be correct?


I feel puzzled with this too!


I don't have any great suggestions for how to recognize how it is being used in this sentence, but maybe it will help to point out that it is an adjective in this sentence, and not a verb or a noun: "hymn-loving woman".


DL seems to prefer equally the adjective phrases "music-loving" and "... who loves music," indicating they're interchangeable. But that's tricky. Sometimes they have a subtle preference, and will eventually count one wrong - seemingly arbitrarily. I'm still having difficulty figuring out these things.


'Auē! That was my first guess, but then I thought maybe the 'o Ka'iulani should come first. Sometimes it seems to work that way.


If I'm not mistaken, 'O Ka'iulani he wahine puni hīmeni" should also be accepted. Though it's possible I'm mistaken.


When you come down to it, though, what DL says is proper predicate-subject order.


I'm not sure a traditional subject-predicate analysis works well for Hawaiian. It's a very eurocentric way to analyze a language and Hawaiian separates the arguments from the verb in ways that prevent coalesence into a predicate.


True. I guess I was thinking Topic-Comment, but I'll have to think a lot more about how that works in Hawaiian. European has some VSO languages. Celtic. Traces remain in Romance. The -(g)o adds the subject right into the verb in Spanish "Tengo mucho dinero."


Interesting you mention Topic-Comment - I have also noticed a similarity between Hawaiian and ASL.


What is wrong with 'He wahine puni ʻo Kaʻiulani i hīmeni. '


A "He" sentence is equating two things. A song-loving woman = Kaʻiulani. By separating puni and hīmeni they are no longer one concept ("loves to sing") and instead seem to be two separate ideas ("loving" and "singing"), but even then the grammar is not right since an equational sentence doesn't really take an object.


having trouble with usage of "ka"

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