New Content for Spanish and French Trees
Hi everyone! Understandably there is concern and confusion around recent course changes, so we wanted to clarify what the changes are and why we’re excited to share them with you!
We have begun rolling out new courses (or “trees,” as we call them) for Spanish and French to older accounts. This is completely separate from the redesigned new look that’s also rolling out. These trees had been tested a while ago on brand new learners with great results, and new learners who sign up to Duolingo have been receiving these new trees for months now. New learners with these new trees stuck around much longer and did around 13% more lessons each day on average compared with the old trees. Here’s what’s new:
- If you’re familiar with CEFR, these new trees now completely cover material through the end of A2. We have reordered the course material so that it covers basic/most important communicative functions first.
- We now teach grammar more comprehensively and in a more digestible way. Important grammatical concepts are now embedded in themed skills that also teach practical things to know in the language.
- Make sure to click on the lightbulb button on a skill’s popout to read our fun, illustrated tips! We have comprehensive, high-quality tips on the new content in these trees.
So why offer new content at all? Those of you who have been around for a while surely remember seeing a new skill or a re-ordered tree with some dents in the perfect color-coding language tapestry that you were working on. We’re committed to providing the best possible way to learn languages, and sometimes that involves being willing to change to what works better. Keeping old trees around not only adds a lot of maintenance work to our staff and contributors that would be better spent moving forward, but also prevents learners from getting access to better material that is proven to teach better.
Although tree changes are nothing new, this week’s change is bigger, as we are aligning entire courses with the CEFR. So this particular update might have felt especially jarring to those who have completed most or all of the course, which is fair—some learners might find their work looking incomplete, their trophy missing, or see several rows of purple skills that weren’t there before. Although we realize a forum explanation helps when it comes to getting the details, many learners prefer a quick understanding of what is happening to their course—so we have also been working on improving how tree updates are communicated on your course page since last time. You will notice that:
- We changed the banner notification to better communicate that skills have been added and updated.
- We added blue dots next to skills with new content to help you identify them. These will go away once you’ve completed a skill or 48 hours after you first see them.
- We preserved your old total crown count, so that you still get credit for all your hard work on the previous tree version
What now? We’d like to encourage you to make use of the test out function (the key on checkpoints and on each skill's pop-out) if you feel the material is too basic, and as a way to review and solidify your knowledge. You also have the choice to skip some skills you are not interested in learning, as all skills you have done previously should still be available no matter where they are now in the new tree. Every skill that was updated does contain material that wasn’t in the previous course, so we encourage you to get that trophy by checking out the all new skills and discover that new content our experts prepared for you.
We hope you are excited to learn about getting new material (we are working to bring this to other courses as well). If you are interested in learning even more about the updates that are happening, stay tuned for a blog post next week which will go into more detail about our commitment to improving content and our methodology around how these new trees were designed. (EDIT: The blog post is now up and discussed in this forum post)
TL;DR Our experts rearranged, removed, and added a lot of content to the French and Spanish course in order to better align to A2 of CEFR. If you had made progress in those courses, the tree might look quite different now. If you had crowns on skills that have been replaced or removed, you may notice some of those old skills and their crowns missing in the tree. Those shiny crowns are still in your total crown count, and you now have new content to look forward to learning!
Dear (and I mean it) helpful HelpfulDuo,
I would like to help Duo and offer here some thoughts.
1) Please do post this kind of explanation early, perhaps as stickies across the default forum page 'All topics, Popular, New' and also as a notification with a link (like how we get notification of lingots and followers on lessons page even if we don't go to forums at all). I think it will vastly reduce all the complaints and queries.
2) If not or as well as 1), leading the feedback with a sticky will collect feedback in one place instead of cluttering the forum.
3) It seems that some users do not understand progressive rollout; please spell it out for them.
4) Important. Please do specify to web designers to focus on learners' experiences, i.e. intensive word scrutiny and use of field. And possibly on giving users options of style. Designers may just have been too used to creating pages for marketing. Eyesight, or consequent eye health, is a serious issue.
Thank you, HelpfulDuo.
Hello HelpfulDuo, please could you change something?
"Buenas noches" only means "Good night", it doesn't mean "Good evening".
"Buenas tardes" means both "Good afternoon" and "Good evening".
I live in Spain.
Unless maybe this course is Latin Spanish, then you should change the Spain flag to one of the South American flags.
Helpful Duo, I will look forward with great interest to the blog post.
I think "some learners might find their work looking incomplete" and "several rows of purple skills that weren’t there before" vastly understates the amount of havoc wreaked on the trees especially for users who were quite far along in the French course.
A few months ago there was a post saying that Duolingo was trying to find ways to make updates to trees less disruptive.
Question: Did Duolingo make any changes in this regard?
From the descriptions people have given of their French trees after the update, it sounds like Duolingo has made absolutely no changes to how the tree update is done.
Question: Would you consider an opt-in period and a grace period for the new tree?
For example "Here are the changes that are coming, do you want to switch now, or be switched in X months from now?"
I was suddenly busted down to zero in 117 French skills. I guess it's not a huge deal, nowhere near as bad as the testing-out cap, but on top of the testing-out cap, it's going to take me years to recover my progress. Like I said, it's not as devastating as the cap. But between this and the cap and the new look, it's a lot of changes in a short while, and leading with the worst one makes all subsequent ones just feel like repeated kicks to the head.
Whether you meant to or not, you make three drastic changes to the site in the span of a few weeks: the XP cap, the new UI, and the Spanish/French tree updates. You can encourage us to make use to the test out function, but when the XP level doesn't match knowledge, I feel like I have to grind instead. Your comments to other users make it clear you aren't reinstating full XP points given to testing out :/
As for the UI, as a user with visual impairments and prone to migraines, I now cannot just grind several lessons at a time anymore either (which I need to do now the tree updates) - well on my laptop. I just got an iPad literally two days ago, and it turns out that the mobile browser version of the website (I don't use the app anymore because of Health - a different rant for a different day) displays better on a device vs. my actual computer, at least for me and my settings. It's not just the bright colors, it's the font itself (even reading the forum now is making me crosseyed).
I've commented this before, but I do feel like you find us older users replaceable. I stuck through Crowns, and I'd always said to myself I'll quit if/when Health hits the web. But I'm contemplating quitting now. Of course though... I'm replaceable.
PS: Maybe announce things before you make changes, and then you'll have to do less damage control? Of the three changes, only one was announced prior. Also... again... I feel like there's a new change or A/B test every week. I'm all for improving the courses, but give us a heads up (an option to "Update Now" or "Later" like with Crowns would be good) and focus more on these kind of updates.
PPS: One of the reasons you get a lot of complaining in the forum (and on social media) is because you have no way to give this sort of feedback other than posting it publicly somewhere. Maybe something to consider.
@AnnaMayBates - Fully agree - the new layout is really bad for my eyes and makes me want to spend a lot less time on Duo, even on the forums.
As usual, Duolingo has rolled out an update without taking into account potential unintended consequences - and it shows. My checkpoints have all been completed, so I cannot test-out of all skills in a section at once (even though I seem to have a section that is all purple, as in new). I have to do it one by one and with the latest UI change I can't bring myself to spend more time on DL than absolutely necessary to keep my streak. Oh well, complaining about it on DL's forums is pointless, as evidenced by the previous backlashes.
It's incredible how they went from being the absolute greatest website for language learning to... this. Disappointing, but not altogether unexpected, in light of all the changes they made in the past year.
yes. It is. One minute my tree is mostly gold, one it is all colorful.
When i use the 'key' to jump a level in basic functions i do not get points for that day and lose streak .
Checkpoint functions are golden no matter what. So here i am stuck with "she is a french woman" sentences and no way of jumping over that.
Same issue here. At first I got new content for the French course, then it disappeared and reappeared again a couple of times. When it was there, I could not open any of the lessons. Finally the new content disappeared again. Then I got the notification about the new content a couple of times, with the option to check it out. But nothing happened when clicking. Both on Android and on website. For the last couple of days I've only been seeing the old content.
I applaud all your changes and efforts, especially the voice improvements in the French course. But it would be nice if one of your programmers would be allowed to add a toggle button to change the css color from annoyingly bright white to something that won't blind cataract patients. This complaint has been lodged by so many users over the years it's actually embarrassing to have to bring it up at this point in Duolingo's development. This ends my praise/rant. Thanks.
"New learners with these new trees stuck around much longer and did around 13% more lessons each day on average compared with the old trees."
Maybe you can share something you studied that has to do with learning, not just user retention and number of lessons completed? (growth of your business not does necessarily imply an improved learning experience)
What will you tell those new users months or years from now if they have stuck around and you do another language tree change, this time on them? Will you tell them it is for the new users and it helps retain them better? Did you measure how effective massive upheaval of routines and records of progress is for retaining users?
As far as I'm concerned, I'm excited if this app is managed in such a way that I barely notice changes. I'm not here for, to put it in game terms, "free new DLC because the old content was getting stale." I'm here to learn a language.
I appreciate the effort of those working on the trees who are, to my understanding, volunteers working to do translation. Some other things I'm struggling to be appreciative of.
"We’d like to encourage you to make use of the test out function (the key on checkpoints and on each skill's pop-out) if you feel the material is too basic, and as a way to review and solidify your knowledge."
You mean like the testing out that is selectively cut off arbitrarily on some levels for some people with some lingot or sub cost amounts for doing it, as part of an A/B test? Or the testing out that was recently gutted for the XP it gives? Were your teams in communication about these two things? It doesn't feel like they are with the way this post is written.
Or the testing out that requires you to go through each one individually depending on how your mangled tree ended up because you may have some purple in set X now and some blue in a set further down, causing the app to think that you've unlocked set X and therefore you don't have the option to test out of that set anymore as a whole.
I get that you go through changes, allegedly to "improve the learning experience," but stuff like "Keeping old trees around not only adds a lot of maintenance work to our staff" seems to be a massive understatement, considering the reports I've seen of people having their trees fluctuate between old and new apparently at random. I think you need to sit down with your programmers and have a hard listen about what may have lead to such an unacceptable disaster in transition (once it's over that is, apparently some of the reports are very recent).
I'm all for an improved learning experience and I'm all for adding new learning content, but you're gonna have to try a bit harder to sell me on the fact that that's what this all comes down to. Not that I expect you to try. I'm just saying, I'm not convinced at all. This seems like streamlining for business growth and buzzwords like CEFR, so that you can appeal better to investors and customers in shareholder meetings and advertising.
Call me aggressively cynical, but I've seen a lot of nonsense in a relatively short life. And some of this sure comes across like nonsense.
I've learned a lot on this app in a relatively short amount of time and I probably wouldn't have done it without this app. And I'm very thankful for that. But I'm probably not going to learn much more if users are treated as expendable/disposable metrics. It's already difficult to focus on the learning at all, without being reminded of how disruptive and messy things are and have been.
Ditto. Regardless of keeping the stupid crowns, we're now having to go back and test out of the most basic things ... and getting zero points for it. Bad enough when testing out was recently capped out at 20 ... sending us all back to the starting gate for nothing is an additional annoyance that truly feels like Duo doesn't want super-users to stick around.
What now? We’d like to encourage you to make use of the test out function (the key on checkpoints and on each skill's pop-out) if you feel the material is too basic, and as a way to review and solidify your knowledge.
I thought with the XP cap you were trying to discourage people from using the test out feature (as I read in the thread regarding the XP Cap change)? How are people supposed to keep up with their goals if these new updates contradict each other? This entire series of updates have been nothing sort of a complete mess, and the lack of communication has been a very big factor. I don't understand the logic behind removing all motivation to use the test out feature, and then tell people that they should test out of skills if they feel it's not challenging enough.
However, on a positive note, I will always support the push for more content and new skills for any language tree, because that will only benefit anyone who goes through the tree. I just wish the updates had been complementary to one another instead of contradictory. I'm looking forward to the expansion of trees on other languages as well!
Hey yah511! I'm sure you understand this but it might be worth clarifying: testing out is still something you can do—the cap was added to discourage people from testing out from the same skills over and over for the sake of accumulating XP, but the actual feature that exists for the purpose of skipping content that is too easy is still there. We do hope that the "whole" motivation behind testing out is not to make sure you get extra points, but mostly to make sure you are at the right spot in your language learning course.
We're so glad you are supportive of new content and we're are working hard to bring this more robust structure to other courses! :)
This would make a lot more sense if we could actually test out of level 5 or test out of a checkpoint, but neither of these are possible. We still have to test out of every level of every egg. It's a lot of work (I'd say several months) to get back to where I was in the French tree prior to the update. I've tested out of about 2 eggs a day this week (a lot of repetitive work) and still have sooo much more to go - I just counted 87 more eggs until I get where I left off. The best solution here really would have been better communication up front and an option to postpone the update until finishing a course (at least for daily users).
We do hope that the "whole" motivation behind testing out is not to make sure you get extra points, but mostly to make sure you are at the right spot in your language learning course.
The motivation was never to get "extra" points, because no extra points were ever being given out. What was being given out was the exact amount of XP as what should have been given out- Duolingo considers testing out to be the equivalent of doing all of the lessons in one level of a skill, so the XP should reflect that. In the current system now after the change, Duolingo considers testing out to be equivalent for the purposes of crowns but is rewarding only a small fraction of that knowledge. So it seems obvious that the XP cap is extremely demotivational for a system that's supposed to be based on rewarding knowledge, and I can see why a whole lot of people with the newly updated trees will not feel like it's worth their time to review earlier skills that got rearranged and added. I get that you consider crowns to be more important than XP, but if that's the case, then a lot of other features on Duolingo need to be overhauled as well, such as XP being tied to Tree Levels, Daily Goals, etc (just a reminder that given the XP cap now, for most trees it is no longer possible to reach Tree Level 25 unless you do almost every single lesson individually and almost never use the test out feature). The people who were testing out of the same skills over and over weren't hurting anyone but themselves and their own learning.
I had the same test-out point of 116 skills, but chose to go through the units individually because I wanted to find out more about the new material. I can probably test out about 15 units per hour, which means that I can get caught up with the new material at level 1 in about 8 hours of computer/cellphone time. I probably can convert my remaining 39 purple units today since it is Saturday. I am also removing all the blue dots near the golden units at the same time. Compared to the Spanish tree update, the French tree had many more purple units. The Spanish tree had substantial changes, but the French tree has massive changes. What a tremendous amount of effort by the French team! Great Work!
Maybe 8 hours gets me through level 1, but that is the amount of time I usually have for Duolingo in a month! I would really like to be able to test out of the first 10 crowns (the first checkpoint) in 5 tests rather than 50. I use Duolingo to keep my French from getting rusty, and the lessons have been interesting because in the old tree I was able to test out of whole checkpoints of material I already knew well. Now that is not possible.
I find what you have done very frustrating. I was at level 5 in many subjects but have now been moved back to the very lowest level. In addition, i have just completed all Basics 1 from the basic level to completion of Level 4 and there seems to be little, if any difference, in what is learnt/taught at each level. Could you explain how this is helping as all it seems to be doing is repeating the same vocabulary and phrases, which as I explained above I alreday knew, having reached Level 5 under the old system.
Totally agree with this comment... i was like nine out of ten satisfied with duolingo and overnight sent me to level zero again and you cant test out other than spending 400 points and then even if hou test out you need qnother 400 points to test out next level so to get back to where i wa before th change i need over 30000 points so i am forced to endlessly practice drivel like girl and boy and yes and no. Have given up. Downloaded two other language courses now. So sad.
Me too! I've had a cold virus so haven't used my app in two weeks and suddenly log in to find there are NINETY NINE lessons behind me I need to do and they are SO boring. I've earned so many XP in a twenty minute train journey it's ridiculous! I've been recommending Duolingo to all my friends but I'm about to go back to playing Candy Crush instead as it's actually taxing my brain a bit more!
Why would you feel it is pointless? That seems to imply you think you won't learn anything between now and when you are switched over. The point to Duolingo isn't to amass XPs, levels, Lingots, Crowns or even owls. It's to learn the language.
I'll probably have to re-think my current crowns strategy, but the point to that strategy isn't to build up crowns but to use crowns to build my knowledge of French.
I sympathize. I've been on Duo for about 2 1/3 years now, and initially completed the French tree about two years ago, but to be honest I don't really think I really started UNDERSTANDING the lessons until about six months ago, not coincidentally when the Crowns system started.
Hopefully any new content will not be so boring as to dissuade me from making further progress. I'd still like to take the A2 exam some time.
If it's feeling pointless, there should be a way for you to move to the new course. I'm in the other situation where I'm now in the new course but would like to be in the old course so I could complete the sequence I was concentrating on.
We should be given the choice during a transition period. For a fixed period the old course could be available to legacy students, but without the cost to DL of support. Both versions are currently running on servers so it isn't so much of a technical problem.
I just keep learning my Spanish. Don't much pay attention to crowns, and points. -- haven't really figured out what they are. Certainly have no idea what a "full crown" is.
Have no idea what an "owl" is.
However, my ability to read Spanish has improved immensely.
I am capable of reading about "owls" in Harry Potter (in Spanish).
I do keep racking up the Lintogots -- about 6500 of them.
I do enjoy, and use, the "test out" features. They help me move more easily through a lesson when new material is added. When a new topic is added, I mostly just test out rather than go through the individual lessons. (What is the Duo term for "lesson"?)
I am confused. When I click on all of my French "Checkpoints", they say "Checkpoint Complete." So do I ignore all of those new skills above the checkpoints and go on until I see a checkpoint that I did not complete yet? Previously, I had reached Level 5 in all skills. Now I see a lot of new ones above my completed checkpoints. I tried testing out of one of the new skills above a "Checkpoint Complete," but it was tedious and way too easy for me, a waste of time. I continued and tested out, though. So do I just haphazardly try various skills to see if they contain new info for me? I am very confused as to what to do next...& I feel I was doing so well, moving along steadily every day. Please advise. Merci.
What I am trying to do now that I understand a little bit of what is going on is-- 1. go to the last "checkpoint complete" 2. start on the next lesson which is NOT gold I had completed 57/96 to level 5 in my tree. Most of my tree is now back to purple. I tried to test out level by level on the early lessons, but it's mind numbing AND I got not XP's whatsoever, so...I would end up losing my streak. It will not enable me to "complete" my tree ever(unless I go back at some point and test out of that junk) but such is life. I'd rather learn the language. I'm trying to keep my OCD self from looking at that purple field and just move forward at the level that i was on. So..just move on past your last "checkpoint complete" and continue learning
Sharon, yes you can. I made sure this morning before responding. I did notice that there were words which were NOT marked as NEW words which I had not learned...so by not going back and redoing everything we will miss a bit. Once they fix the bug of no XP's for testing out, I may go back and review...although I had just finished doing that..ugh! But..in the big picture, this is really such a minor thing:)
Just noticed the update last night after hearing about it elsewhere and just wanted to offer my two cents regarding pros and cons. Thank goodness I completed the old tree about a month ago but it was only because I flew through the last few skills. I can only imagine if I had gone at the steadier pace I was planning to go at, as I'm not sure I would have been done by now and I would have been devastated as I'm sure many people are.
I was more upset when I first saw the switch but having checked the lessons, I will say, they are clearer and I do think the lessons are much better and the skills are better organized now, at least for new language learners. But as a grammar nerd, I do miss the clearer organization of grammar topics. And already, I know one of the 4 skills I've done so far on the new tree had a lesson on the different pronunciations of e that I'd like to review again, but I don't remember which skill it was on. With 4 skills, it's not a big deal to click on each one to find it, but there's well over a hundred skills on here. How am I supposed to find old information I want to review if the lessons don't always directly apply to the theme of the skill like on the old tree? I have no way of knowing if that thing about e pronunciation is under basics or people without checking each individual lesson. So some kind of index or something like that would be helpful.
But while I do appreciate the vast improvement in the lessons, and know that I've had my old tree since probably 2012 so it was probably a long time coming, even with all that being said, you HAVE to give people advance notice, at the very least. Even if you can't give us the option to opt out, please give us a heads up, via email because not everyone checks these forums regularly. I know that the French words that people have learned are still in their brains and they don't technically have to start over from scratch, but I'm sure for many people that's how it feels. It kind of feels that way for me and I finished the old tree! I hadn't made it all gold yet and that was my next goal, and now it does feel like starting over. Plus it also makes me wonder, is it worth making it my new goal to finish this tree? Will I even be able to finish it before Duolingo changes it again without warning? I think that's my biggest concern going forward is not knowing when these changes are coming. Is this the new tree, long-term? Am I going to make it halfway through this one and then be blindsided again?
@butterfly2342 I also have to speed up my learning a lot since they released new trees last December. Though having taken steps (using Classroom) to prevent my tree from being changed, I'm now a little bit worried that they're soon going to change every tree before I can fully complete mine.
I think I am missing something. I was so frustrated that I lost ALL my progress, that I was gaining for a few years, so I am thinking to swich to other app, just because I do not have time to go all over again. ((( What's worse - there was no warning. It took me a while to find this news. This is total disrespect to the users.
On behalf of the "been doin' this a while now" camp... Please update the checkpoints function!
I had completed the full English to Spanish course, full gold tree, full crowns (through 3 different massive tree overhauls, no less). I moved on and was making good progress completing the full Spanish to English course with a full gold tree (almost done, up through the one-before-last section over there already). I came back to do these dozens of new purple lessons on the Spanish course when they appeared and...man are they easy and repetitive so far. Many of them don't even have the blue dots indicating new material. Can we fix the checkpoints to test out of large chunks of material that are too easy, please? Right now it says all of my checkpoints are already done and it won't let me use them again. Using just the "key" test outs function, even if I do a whole 5-part lesson of test outs every single day, it'll still take months to fill in the tree again. I'd like to concentrate on harder material again, please! Please update checkpoint function!
Total disaster... was on day 87 french and has now taken me back to th beginning like asking me to say “yes” or “girl”. Then tells me i dont have enough points to test out to move up so i then have to waste an hour typing in lesson one stuff like boy, girl. Soent three days tying to recover it. Now given up pretty much and trying out other language courses. Such a shame but after three months i dont want to go back to lesson one or two.
Question to Duolingo, how will we ever finish all the lessons through Level 0 to Level 5 lessons on the current French tree if you go ahead and change it again in the future? This is the second time I've had my progress reset, the first time I didn't understand what happened so I just went back to the first lesson and began again. I'm not prepared to this time knowing that you'll reset it again in the future and I'll lose any record of my progress.
You have to come up with a better way of moving from one tree to another as this one is soul destroying.
you know....I really don't care about the idiotic crown level i get to keep, what I do care about is having all my lessons colored in, at the appropriate level which I've attained in them, so that I know what I have yet to do, and what I need to work on more.
So....thanks a lot for erasing all that. Great.
HelpfulDuo, if a user has locked skills towards the bottom of their tree, do they have to promote all the preceding purple skills to at least blue in order to unlock new skills, regardless of where the purple skills may be in the tree? Or, if their tree has the "castle" checkpoints, is it sufficient to just pass each checkpoint? Or something else?
So... now I am having to redo a tree to get the French stuff gold (again, again, since this is the second update that has wiped out my French tree) and now, at least on laptop, I am getting 0 exp for level skipping. This is REALLY annoying. I did not ask for my tree to be wiped. I am not happy about it being wiped. And my reward for undoing the damage is diddly squat. I have ENORMOUS buyer's remorse for getting a one year subscription.
Thanks, Duolingo! I really like all of this except one point. The blue dots indicating skills with new content go away 48 hours after you first see them. I suggest that you change that part to make them go away 48 hours after you click on that particular skill (or after you've completed, as noted above). That way, we can keep up with them until we're ready to start the skill with new content.
Thanks for all of your efforts on this.
This is so discouraging. It is going to take me months to get back to the level I was at. Someday I was going to review lessons anyway, but only to brush up. To be forced to retake nearly 80% of the lessons just to work at the level I was at a few hours ago is incredibly discouraging. I'm back to having to literally having to "learn" to say hi and bye again. It's like being a senior in high school and being demoted to the 6th grade. The boredom and tedium are enough to make one give up on this altogether.
Just-LB, you don’t have to do the early, newly purple, skills at all. You can go to the place in the tree you were before and continue working from there. The next row of skills will unlock in the normal way (getting the one immediately previous single row of skills up to crown 1).
Hi Sharon, because the French Tree has been so thoroughly shaken up I cannot find the stage that I was at before the update....the order of each module has been completely changed. I think this is what has upset so many people , we are now forced to start back with the absolute basics like "Bonjour" , "Fille" etc. which is mind-numbing, and , quite frankly, a complete waste of time :[
We should not have lost all our progress. They keep track of the words and phrases we know and they should have been able to roll most of it over. They were just being lazy by cutting corners. They’ll get some people to do all the basics over so they can either get a longer subscription or earn more ad revenue.
It's a bug, we're working to fix it. Sorry, tybjefc!
As to your other question, we are working on A2 for now, but might expand it in the future! (did you see how big these new trees are?). But if you want to improve from A2, have you checked out Duolingo Labs? We can suggest other strategies like Duolingo Stories, Duolingo Podcast, Duolingo Events, in addition to watching videos, movies, listening to music, and of course, traveling! We hope those ideas can inspire you to reach A2 and beyond!
Thank you for adding content to align the courses with A2 of CEFR. That really makes me happy.
And now a request... my students and I have had the new trees for awhile... I have been working on German, but now I see my Spanish tree has 42 purple skills with no indicated level. There is no possibility of testing out of them collectively to the next level. I am C2 in Spanish and I don't really want to take the time to do the individual testing out in 42 skills. Is there any way you could make one test? Even if it was really long, I'm sure it will take less time than 42 single tests...
HelpfulDuo, thanks so much for your continued efforts to improve the tree and integrate it with CEFR standards. I do have some concerns I was hoping you'd comment on. Is it possible to have the same comprehensive "test out" button at the bottom for all crown levels, and not only to get to L1? I'd previously worked hard to get every unit to gold L5, and this update reset most of them to purple L0. I was able to test into L1 for all of them via the button at the bottom, but now to get back to L5, I have to do 400+ individual test-outs (4 per unit). I don't doubt there's new material, but the vast majority of this is busywork. It's maddening, at this stage in my learning, to have to waste my time typing "salut, bonne nuit" over and over to get to L5 on Greetings, for example. It's rewarding to see the all-gold tree as a monument to my progress, and extremely demotivating to have that taken away and to have to do countless hours of busywork to get it back. For a long time I stopped practicing Duolingo because of this periodic need to do tons of repetitive work to get back to where I was before, with new learning being only a small fraction of that work. That's time that could be better spent learning via some other medium. Duolingo is a great platform, but it shouldn't punish its loyal users this way. If the tree needs to be disrupted this way in order for updates to be integrated into it, a comprehensive test-out option for L2 through L5 seems the most efficient way to avoid this kind of punishment. Is it possible?
This is such a mess, all of it caused by Duolingo. First off, users were given no warning of the changes, and no option to complete the course they were on before their learning record and achievements were wiped out. Secondly, some horrible decisions have been made with the new tree. Now, once I've completed a unit, there's no way to access the lesson again in future. That option disappears. All I can do is practice. I've been awarded Level 5 in quite a few units, but when I've attempted to practice it, I've come up against new content that I've never learned and now have no option to learn. Ridiculous.
Sorry, when an update wipes out the records of most of your progress it's extremely disheartening; and frankly quite wrong.
I'm not usually a complainer but feel I have to register my complaint here.
New tree - great but it hasn't been matched in anyway with the tree I was working on so what I'm looking at is alien - for example Basics1 I'm on level 3 where I was yesterday but that's where the similarity ends. All the other Level3's I was on are now at level0 and I'm talking about 100 of them!!!
With the tree I was working through yesterday, I could look back and see my progress and look forward and see my future lessons.
They've all gone now and I don't know where I am now compared to where I was yesterday.
If I was attending a French class and they suddenly decided to redesign the course mid-way through and that all my notes and progress were not accessible anymore and that I had no way of seeing my progress I would quit. Perhaps Duolingo call this progress but I'm afraid I totally disagree.
I'm not a confident French student even after the 152 day streak I just lost and the previous 100 or so, non contiguous, days I put in but this has really dented my confidence.
If the impact of the tree update was know why were we not warned and given an opportunity to save our progress. I'm sorry but this is very, very poor customer service.
They had to spend some time and find algorithm that matches the old and the new system, so that the users could just continue. Instead, they have decided that they do not care anout user's problems and time and rather make them all go all over the whole course. This is the worst attitude I have ever met..
If I have to redo the entire tree (for the second time), why wouldn't I just go to some other site that isn't going to erase everything and start from the beginning there? The test out function is stupid because it's also testing you on the stuff you haven't even learned yet, since it's going off the current system, rather than the last one. It's also way easier to just re-do the lessons than use the test out.
I'm seriously shocked here....this is just unacceptable.
@Helpfulduo, I know you won't answer me but I'll try. I can't see the new layout, it hurts my eyes, and if I end up going completely blind I'll know who to blame. Oh well. Next, I won't test out of any of your skills because you won't give me what I rightfully should earn thanks to your ingenious test out cap. I know you think its going to stop the cheating, what ever there was, but believe me, once a cheater always a cheater. This cap won't help. You took away the greatest part of the course. Thanks a ton. Seeing as you essentially ruined duo for everyone in an attempt to 'fix' cheaters you won't be surprised when I tell you I am NOT going to EVER get plus. Nope, not happening. So while you introduce these trees and then suggest we test out of them I'll tell you that YOU MUST give us back the xp we earned. Leaderboards. Nope I don't like them, leaderboards started this whole thing, why do we have to have them? Can't it be optional, and then we get our usual xp? Of course you don't care what consumers think, only about what the kiddies who couldn't take it when someone got more xp than them.
Sincerely an outraged user.
ps. if you cheat the only person who you are cheating is yourself, so why should anyone care? Because there are leaderboards
Edit: ps I wear glasses and am impaired visually! Thank you for the kindergarten look
And i dont want to pay if they are just going to send me back three months to lesson one randomly. Just downloaded two other language courses now which is sucha shame as i loved duolingo but they have just wrecked it. I guess they are trying to get everyone to pay but i dont want to do this only to find i am still having to re-do the most basic lessons all over again from scratch endlessly. So sadly i will have to go elsewhere i guess. Feel quite sad and feel wasted three months.
The vosotros conjugation now appears prominently in the Spanish "imperfect" skill, but without any instruction on a " tips/notes" page. For the moment, this student hasn't seen vosotros mentioned in other tense skills on the course, though he would like to learn it (just as he would jump at the chance to master the "literary past" Duo-style in the French course). Why this out-of-left-field kind of introduction? Is DL serious about teaching "vosotros"?
P.S. (4/2/2019) Just discovered it again popping up in "Present 1" and "Present 2" skills, but with no note before nor explanation in the discussion. Come on, DL, this isn't the way to introduce something so important as this, even if we are happy to see it being done!
Dear Duolingo, when I read: "We’ve added new skills and updated some old ones. CHECK IT OUT," it is alarming. When you somehow all of a sudden seem to negate one's progress up the levels by all of a sudden starting at ground zero after accomplishing level 3 or 4 in most subjects it is totally disheartening. This has happened several times. I thought this time it was better since one stayed at a level and did not decrease all the time as it did before, but I totally don't appreciate starting over in most things and having one's accomplishments disappear especially when it is not really any new or more interesting material. Thanks for taking this into consideration.
Yes, it would be so nice if there were options to take tests to skip out on sections once you have finished them before.. This sometimes does feel like you will never get it all done.. And it can be a big disappointment.. I have had this happen a couple of times, especially in french, while some other languages never have this sort of thing happen..
I had 334 crowns in French, and now nearly everything is back to level zero! Unfortunately, it says everywhere that I have "already passed the checkpoint", so I don't seem to have the possibility of skipping the very basic material. Could you reactivate the checkpoints, please? Thanks from a user who is now in her third year of working with duolingo
Hi John, by “un-purpling” I meant doing enough lessons on a crown level 0 skill (purple disk) to bring it up to at least crown level 1 (blue disk).
The usual way to move through a tree is that one row will be purple, and all the rows after that will be grey (locked). You can’t at that point work on any of the grey skills.
After you raise all the purple skills in that one row to at least crown level 0 (blue), the next row of skills becomes unlocked and turns to purple. You can start working on those skills, bringing them up to at least crown level 1. This will unlock the next row of skills. In this way you can move down the tree, unlocking more skills and learning more content.
At any point you can also go back and do more lessons in any of the already-unlocked skills.
When a tree update like the French update happens and resets a lot of your skills to crown level 0 (purple), some people think they have to get all the purple skills up to at least crown level 1 before being able to continue unlocking new skills to work on. But this is not correct. You just have to raise the very last unlocked row to crown level 1 in order to unlock the next row. You can ignore all the purple skills that are earlier in the tree, if you wish, and still make progress at the bottom of the tree.
While I am ecstatic about the new content in Spanish which I am just going through Level 1 in, it is very very annoying to find that although I have completed the WHOLE french course to level five TODAY I am on Level zero on GREETINGS, so while my daily practice has been conditional future, I am not having to do FIVE LEVELS of Bonjour ca va. This is making me feel persecuted. I know that is unfair, but it is my emotional reaction. Isn't there some way to let those of us WAY PAST Bonjour monsieur get out of all the "new material in a few skips instead of having to do ALL FIVE LEVELS in skips?
Je suis tout à fait d'accord ! (I agree wholeheartedly!) A good idea someone else suggested would be to AT LEAST let us try to test out of all five levels at once rather than one by one.
I've slogged through several today, but it will be sometime before I'm past the easiest stuff.
Thumbs up and one of my 18,000+ lingots à toi!
I've taken a look at the new Spanish tree, it looks huge. If I remember correctly, it used to be a relatively short tree. Quite a bit of climbing to do :O. But don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining, not at all, love additional content and trees taking you further and further.
While I love the additional content, I'm disappointed that the test out function gives no xp. I'm catching up on the new French content, I'm testing out of most of it, and getting no credit for it. Even a minimal amount of xp for testing out would be helpful, especially in the redundant content.
Discouraged by the mishandling of the transition, losing my progress in the old lesson, and the unsympathetic attitude of Duolingo, I've decided to move on to other online French resources, eg ClozeMaster, Babbel, Lawless French, News in Slow French etc.
As a faux beginner, Duolingo wasn't probably the best fit anyway. If you've already finished Duolingo French, or if you already know a lot of French but need review, you might take a look at ClozeMaster. It has 25,000 French sentences, ordered from easy to hard, where there is a missing word. You can listen to or read the sentence and supply the missing word either with multiple choice or typing. And for the competitive, there are score, level, streak, and leaderboard motivators. I've already done 0.468% of the sentences :-)
I'm quite sure the new Duolingo CEFR French course will eventually work out fine. And I'm looking forward to Duolingo Swedish after it gets updated.
Thanks to the many volunteers and users who have written helpful comments. Au revoir.
I agree. I was at the last segment of my tree and I find this change like starting over. It's frustrating. However, I'm thankful they change and improve content. I'm thankful that at least if I get too positive about learning the constant abuse by their iOS health feature will keep me discouraged.
This is incredibly frustrating. I support the idea behind the new rollout, but the executions is incredibly bad, and it's an extremely bad experience. With the new rollout, I now have no option but to start back at level 1 for most skills, when I had already completed through level 4 for every skill, and level 5 for the vast majority of skills. Repeating levels 1, 2, and 3 in most cases is completely useless for me. Testing out of them is slow, tedious, and doesn't teach me anything at all-- in fact, it takes time away from actually learning. So tell me how this update helped me, because it looks to me like it made things worse for me. And since I am a premium customer, I've now paid for this incredibly ❤❤❤❤❤❤ experience. Lovely.
Yesterday I went back to my French tree. (I completed it about 4 years ago.) I wanted to practice "Negatives", and also wanted to read the comments, which I did. I copied and pasted several comments, especially those from Sitesurf. She has been a volunteer at Duo for several years. Her comments have been incredibly helpful, and she is often praised and thanked by those in the comment sections. My French would not have progressed to the degree that is has without the knowledge that Sitesurf imparted.
Today the new tree turned up, when I went to practice "Negatives". Thus, I could no longer read Sitesurf's comments, nor those of others whom I trust for advice.
My opinion is that Duolingo has shamelessly used volunteers such as Sitesurf to enhance their corporate bottom line.
I'm really by what you describe which is yet another undesirable consequence of the recent update, and though I may not necessarily agree with your conclusion in fact (I may also not necessarily disagree with it either), I certainly agree in principle, and you have my up-vote — and one of my lingots, for what it's worth.
Okay, this is all well and good, but why are the intro skills reset for me, a level 24 French speaker, who will just be quickly running through these skills to get them back to five crowns, when I already know all that information by heart? It's not going to do anything for me and I can't use the checkpoint to finish them all at once because for some reason the checkpoints aren't reset. I'm basically back at level 1 again after pretty much all of my five-crown skills were reset to zero, so I hate this
Whilst it is very nice with a new tree I feel that the from a motivational point of view the transition could have been better. In the old days a new tree meant that for a while you could get quite easy xps and repeat some old stuff as well as learn some new. The transition to crowns have changed that logic, since it is based on how much you have learnt rather than the number of lessons etc (to generalise). With the earlier changes Duolingo took into account of your earlier progress, such as making lessons half-finished if they included stuff the user had already done. The transition to crowns was also were well done with the number of crowns corresponding to at least my knowledge very well. However, in this case a lot of even very basic skills are empty. At the same time the number of crowns reported to duome is drastically decreased and no xps given for testing out.
Duolingo is based on gamification. That means that you try to achieved your best based on some rules. Duolingo changing the rules quite often reduces the gamification part quite a lot.
I think it would make a lot of sence if Duolingo did their test on existing users as well as new ones (preferably on an opt-in basis). Working with a new tree with lots of unfinished lessons can be quite fun to do once or twice, it becomes decreasingly so the more times the tree is renewed. Existing and new users are likely to behave differently for the above reasons.
Are you concerned about your real language knowledge or just crowns/streak/rating? After completion of the whole French tree I can barely reach A1. With the new system I believe I can easily reach A2. And how about new shiny explanations? They are brilliant compared to the old ones! I can't understand some rating racers. I am here to learn, not to compete...
@avtomalon - A lot of people are here to learn, not to compete. The point is that changes like this are completely disruptive. When you start your tree you see the system, understand it and set some goals - be it number of XP per day or number of Crowns per week or whatever else. You set some goals for yourself. And then along comes an unannounced change, like this one, and suddenly your goals mean diddly squat and you have to rethink the whole thing. That IS disruptive and for some people downright demotivating.
I love the idea of new content, I have advocated for it back when they introduced the Crowns (and claimed there WAS new content when there wasn't), but it should be introduced in such a way as to not disrupt the learning process - they always make it as a tree for beginners. Had I had this tree when I first started out, I would probably have been happy with it. Now...
I have finished the Spanish tree countless times, after every update - now I have a bunch of new lessons at level 0 dab smack in the middle of the tree, not at the end, as they should be, since at least in theory they are supposed to be additional and therefore more difficult content.
I'm mildly confused. I have been working on my tree this morning. I am pretty sure that I got the new tree a while back because my owl vanished and I had over twenty new skills to learn. That was the way my tree looked today, and I knew I had at least 12 that still needed to be finished because I've been focusing on turning sections gold before completing all of the new skills. Suddenly my tree changes and all of the purple is gone and my tree shows that I am in blue in skills that I knew I hadn't completed. I also have my owl back. I'm not complaining. I'm just puzzled since I knew I made progress today, but not that much.
Stardust, Duolingo seems to have some problem with their rollout process where after they are updated, people's tree randomly fluctuates back and forth between the old tree and the new tree.
You can often provoke the new tree into reappearing by reloading the page. You might prefer to encourage the old tree into reappearing, but that tree is really going away for good, so it would only be a temporary solace.
I think it settles down after about a day or two, and you end up with the new tree.
I've found a lot of the same error in the Spanish course, where "use to" is written where the correct English would be "used to". Multiple times. There is also for some reason no option to report the correct English as there is on other courses. This new content isn't ready for prime time yet. I'm mostly finding these errors whilst testing out modules.
Ros, I thought I was finding that a lot too. Then I looked it up and found that when used with "did", it should be the unconjugated form "use to". This is the same for any past tense verb (which is what "used to" is) when used with "did".
Since I found out this clarifying rule about English written usage, I haven't found any mistakes. Not saying there aren't any; it's just that I used to think I was finding a lot of mistakes, and now I don't.
I used to go to school.
You used to go to school.
He used to go to school.
Did I use to go to school?
Did you use to go to school?
Did he use to go to school?
I ran to school.
You ran to school.
He ran to school.
Did I run to school?
Did you run to school?
Did he run to school?
Hopefully those "mistakes" were not really mistakes. See Sharon's comment above. What I'd like to reiterate is that the reporting module needs to be improved. Often I want to report something but there are a limited number of "reasons," and none have anything to do with the mistake. Why can't there be an "Other" possibility included, with a space where you can write your own reason in?
Thanks for the new material; I am particularly delighted to find more grammar tips (lightbulbs).
However, I do have a couple of gripes. The first and most important is that if the words in the word bank screen run to three lines, the bottom line is now unviewable and therefore unusable. The third row has never been viewable in its entirety but could be accessed by clicking and then deleting them from the answer if necessary. Can this be rectified please?
My second complaint is the reduction in points earned when testing out. It was the opportunity to earn large numbers of xps which made testing out attractive. Twenty xp for successfully gambling on one's ability to complete the test is very disappointing, particularly with new material where alternative translations have not yet been reported or actioned.
Thanks once again.
Where did you hear this? Have a link?
It would be extremely disappointing if the more complex grammar (Intermediate) sentences were / are going to get wiped out. Not even relocated to the end of the tree, after the A1 and A2 parts.
I have been lucky to practice Portuguese grammar here and just by relying mainly on Duolingo for the first 6 months or so, I was able to learn (not master) all necessary grammar topics in order to achieve intermediate level understanding in the language. I could read Portuguese and pretty much most of the structures I encountered were familiar to me.
I’m all for making the trees more context and conversational based, it’s useful! Still, I’d love if they could keep the intermediate grammar sections and not obliterate the trees by cutting the intermediate grammar out. They could even implement a smaller bonus tree for grammar topics which skills you’d unlock as you progress on the main tree.
Maybe it’s just business, and we’ll see intermediate content/ trees behind a paywall in the future. I can understand that the company needs to make profits and the investors need to be satisfied.
Probably Duo didn't preserve them 'as is', but I see pretty complicated grammar structures in the Spanish course, well above A2 (closer to the end of the tree). I enjoy learning more complicated grammar too, but not on the very early stages. The new Spanish tree seems much better to me than the previous one, and pretty much consistent.
Yeah, it’s what I hear and would expect too, for the tree, aligned with the CEFR A1 and A2, to be better, more consistent, and useful as well. That is not my concern here, I think the change makes a lot of sense.
Just worried about the more complex/intermediate grammar. Learning Portuguese here, they have been extremely important and helpful.
If I were to start studying Dutch which tree seems to be one of the deepest here in terms of grammar, that might not be the case in a couple of years from now.
That being said, I find it relieving to hear that the end-tree skills’ sentences in Spanish from English still go beyond CEFR A1/A2 with its grammar, but how far beyond A1/A2 does it go, compared to the grammar of the old tree, is what I’m still concerned about.
What I was saying is that they did not remove skills above A2 in the Spanish tree. They are still there (probably somewhat different). Duo just reordered some existing material and added some new points to fully cover A2 level. It does not mean that they cover A2 level ONLY, and there is no material ABOVE A2. At least for Spanish (I still don't see a new French tree for some reason).
I think French and Spanish were redesigned along different lines, so (I suspect) French lost some advanced skills whereas Spanish (I know) did not.
Spanish had previously had the first half of the course CEFR-aligned. For the update Duolingo just added a whole bunch more CEFR-skills in the middle of the tree and left the very end of the tree largely alone, with only some light revisions. The result is that Spanish still has whatever post-A2 skills it had before.
The French tree ISTM had not been previously CEFR-aligned at all, and was revised throughout for the new CEFR-aligned tree. This involved revising, adding, removing, moving skills everywhere in the tree. In particular, near the end of the tree some advanced grammar-names skills are missing, and I’m beginning to suspect they have actually been dropped, not just renamed with a thematic name like “Sports” or whatever. I haven’t yet examined the contents of all the skills yet to verify this suspicion one way or the other.
Avtomaton, that would answer my original question here. Funnily it’s pretty much the complete opposite of what MillionthMonkey user was saying. Needless to say I find yours more credible. So they just reorganized intermediate grammar sentences (e.g subjunctives) to a new/contextual skill/unit e.g. "Politics" huh, that’s very good, it’s what I was hoping to hear in the beginning. Still, it’s a bit concerning to hear if there have been reports (still waiting for an answer from the MillionthMonkey user) that some of the previous tree’s grammar are missing in the new tree.
Edit. I found someone’s duome page with the new Spanish from English tree and looks like a lot of the complicated verb skills in the end of the tree remained the same. I’m not really concerned anymore.
Should Duo continue the "CEFR alignment update" like this with the other courses as well, keeping the complex grammar topic skills from the old tree version in the end of the new CEFR aligned tree, I’d be more than happy!
I completed the Spanish course some time ago, and just checked out the new tree: I don't see any grammar simplification on the higher levels. All what I've learnt in Duo is still there. So I don't know MillionthMonkey's source, I just checked the new tree compared to my skills learnt in the old one :)
Yup! The new updates seem/sound great. In case you didn’t notice my edit in my previous reply, copypasted:
I found someone’s duome page with the new Spanish from English tree and looks like a lot of the complicated verb skills in the end of the tree remained the same. I’m not really concerned anymore.
Should Duo continue the "CEFR alignment update" like this with the other courses as well, keeping the complex grammar topic skills from the old tree version in the end of the new CEFR aligned tree, I’d be more than happy!
Thank you for all the ongoing work in improving the courses.
Spanish tree changes were great. Essentially everything I had done stayed the same, except for great new material in the middle. I really hope there’s more practical tourist stuff in there. Restaurants, foods, pillows, extra blankets, broken air conditioning, asking for recommendations ... you know.
French reset almost all old lessons to purple, and added tons of crazy simple lessons at the top. Each skill seems to have four lessons, so testing out one by one is pointless. Why can’t you make an effort to integrate the old tree material into lower crown levels of the new tree? I understand that the old French tree was a lot older than the Spanish tree, but not being able to test out of blocks of purple is demoralizing if you’re already bored trying to get from green to red on the old tree, putting all lesson time into testing out. I bit the bullet and reset my French tree completely so I could test out of the first level ‘en bloc’. Of course that means I’m back to level 6 (at 173 crowns no less), but who cares. The material still seems too simple for me, and getting to the upper crown levels will likely stretch my patience. In general, entrance tests could use work.
Japanese. Give me the new Japanese tree. Please? I know you’re sitting on one!
I finished gilding my French tree a month or so ago. This new update has set me back quite a ways, but I don't mind at all. I feel that, while the material is fairly basic at my current level, the test out function is a good review. I even don't mind just getting 20XP per test. I understand and agree with the philosophy behind it. Thanks for being committed to constant improvement.
The new material looks excellent, however one week in, on both my devices, the platform continues to alternate between the old and new material. I regularly need to log out / in, including between individual lessons, to access the new material, and this doesn't always work. Also, I have received the new material yet my partner has not. We were learning together. This is a massive disincentive to continue the subscription. Please sort it out.
Question: Considering that all the new content has been added to the middle of the tree, can someone tell me if other tenses have been added to those new skills as well? I hope it isn't 46 more skills of mostly present tense.
Also, with 159 skills in total in the Spanish course which contains over 3000 words(not lexumes) isn't this higher than A2? It's very discouraging to learn so much only to be considered upper novice level.
It is frustrating to move from level 1 in a subject to level5 and still being given the same sentences to translate, not much sign of any progress. As I was on Level 3 at least on all learning in French it is difficult to cope with being moved back to very basic vocabulary and grammar.
My French tree, which was all golden, has now been upgraded. Now I have 115 crowns that have been set back to level 0. To get back to all gold, I will have to test out of skills like basic greetings (Oui - Yes, Yes - Oui) five times for each crown, which feels like a huge waste of time. To add insult to injury, I will only earn the capped 20XP per level. I have to admit that I am a little frustrated by this. And yes, I know that I don't have to have an all golden tree. But I really liked to have a "complete" tree, it felt like a nice accomplishment.
Hi classmates, Just got my Spanish tree Update (about 2 weeks after the OP announcement -this is to gauge the progressive rollout rate). Below describes what have changed. Hope it helps in some way.
Skills, old = all 113 completed.
Skills, new; of 159, 47 at 100%, 75 at 75%, 13 at 50%, 36 at 25%, 6 at 0%
% as seen by hovering over the faint horizontal line on duome.
(Skills, old, used to be kept at 100% every day but since the 'problems' they've been dying and continuing so.)
Crowns, old = 341/567.
Crowns, new = 318/797.
Lessons, old = 520 all completed.
Lessons, new = 435/678.
Duo Lexemes, old = 3374 all completed.
Duo Lexemes, new = 3374/4466.
Level stays the same. XPs stay the same.
Looks like I can do any lesson right to the last, with all checkpoints marked as already passed -except the very last (purple blob?).
Oh, yeah, the GOLDEN OWL FAINTED, now a pale shimmery ghost :-(
Wondering.... If anyone's old tree was older than the '113 skills' maybe you could face problems with new check points -I don't know.
(PS Some dots on tree and other 'new look' related changes on tree I cannot tell you quite, because having to use workarounds to counter the extreme brightness means that such intended visual information has been drastically altered; etc. Signed, squeaky wheels)
Right, so you are seeing me and others do a lot more lessons. You mark that down in the win column and say that I am learning more French. Problem is, I'm not. I haven't learned a single new thing since the change because I am going back through every single lesson making them all gold again. I am so frustrated. I want to learn new material, not repeat "bonjour bienvenue" 60 times to make that lesson gold.
Don't rely exclusively on Duolingo. Make use of YouTube, French movies and news, flashcards, Duolingo groups, Stories, etc. Personally, I think Duolingo might get to a point where the trees are customized to the user, or at least customized to particular profiles and skill levels of user. But it will take time to compile and test all of that. Eventually, you might be grateful for the repetition at this stage. I know that I sound like a broken record, but it's difficult to objectively measure one's potential for long term recall of foreign words. But a great deal of study has gone into that question and hopefully the product of those studies are encoded into the algorithms.
To answer my own question, they are planning to replace the Swedish course with a CEFR compatible course "soon". I'm quite upset by having the old French course pulled out from underneath me because of the progress and need to "start over".
With Swedish I'm not as far along and have forgotten some of it, so starting over with a better course is ok.
Dear Duolingo, Most of my previously yellow and red circles have gone to purple. Redoing these lessons is insanely boring. I am basically starting over except for some random red circles. I tried testing out but there are enough advanced questions in the test that I cannot complete it yet. I use Duolingo to improve. I don't need to waste precious minutes in my day translating "Ils sont calmes." repeatedly, I need the advanced level I was at returned to be engaging. This update is a huge step backward for this app. Please don't mess up any other languages this way. And please fix this.
Suzette is right. The user experience in this transition is horrible.
The new course is surely better and the incompatibility in content means that there is no easy way to move into the new course at a similar level, although testing out to level 5 would be a help.
Allowing students to stay in the old course for a while would avoid much of this mess. Going back to Bonjour is so mind numbing I'm not sure I can continue with the new course, even if it is better.
I'm sure the positive comments were planted. If you look at the discussions in other Duolingo forums the comments predominately show a high level of distress. Amazon reviews have trained us to sniff out suspicious postings :-)
Not that the positive comments on the new course content are wrong, just that the transition is a demotivating mess.
This is quite silly when I have been through the French course four times and now have to go back to the simple basics. I find it very annoying. Please could you ensure that people who have been using your course for a number of years have something a bit more challenging than Salut! Also, could you also get rid of some of the Americanisms that crop up from time to time!
I'm seeing both old and new trees, and my progress in one tree doesn't show in the other tree. I wound up doing some lessons twice. Can you give me credit for all eight lessons I've done in Spanish Education level 3 and one lesson Vocab 1 level 1?
Can I opt out of the tests? No tests was something I loved about Duolingo, making learning less stressful and more fun.
I'm surprised you've re-designed the Spanish tree three times in a year, especially after the storm of complaints last summer around the first of the redesigns. I didn't mind last summer's redesign, because I was just starting, and had no progress to lose, Now I am three-quarters of the way through the Spanish tree, but this newest tree is a sea of purple. Honestly, there's no reason for me to stay with DuoLingo if I have to re-start.
I appreciate that you add more material and try to make it closer to the CEFR levels. But I would like to know: are there any plans to also include material that goes BEYOND the A2 level?
I've been learning Spanish and French for a while and I'm above A2 level. I still use Duo to review it a bit but overall I'm pretty bored and spend less and less time here. If you want to keep users you should consider adding higher level material.
I'm also not a fan of hiding grammar concepts in themed skills. If I want to practice a certain grammar concept I first have to find out where it's hidden, which is quite annoying. Suggestion: Make a page or at least a topic that maps grammar concepts to skills so finding them is easier.
Here's a thought: I used to use Khan Academy every day, I even donated $$$ yearly to their fund drives. They kept improving and improving their web-site and user experience. Its so good now I never bother to go there anymore. They broke, changed and removed every feature that was of value to me in the name of aligning themselves with some curriculum I didn't and don't care about. With this new skill roll-out, every short term goal I had has been flushed down the toilet. I was trying to earn a crown-a-day+ to catch my crown count up to my 188 day streak, but the crown count changes every hour. I was trying to complete the 1st tree by Cinco de Mayo, but that isn't going to happen, either.
And you really need to find a native English speaker to check the English translations, the new tree has some really bad English.
As a long term Duo user of French and Italian (+75000XP, level 25, +300 crowns) I too would like Duo to know how the new French trees have affected me and my course content. In summary - really badly! I can only conclude that this update is designed to either (A) push up Duo's total user hours to enable them to increase revenues from advertising, or (B) push us original free platform users into paying for Duo-plus? I can find nothing positive that it does for me as a loyal long term daily user. Me, I feel bitterly disappointed in Duo, and cross with them for 'wiping my tree'. I actually feel violated, like they stuck their hands into my computer and helped themselves to my years of hard work! Its akin to Google Gmail releasing an update that deletes all your previous emails, or Apple releasing one that deletes all your contacts! Like many others I can only hope that this release contains a software bug that is going to be corrected and that some sanity will return. My course content: like many others users, my French tree has been wiped. Level 0 / 'Purple' from lesson 2 onwards with the odd colour thrown in at random further on. All 'checkpoints' however showing 'completed'. I tried 'levelling up' from level 0 to level 1 on lesson two, as would be required for every lesson, for each of the five levels, to get back to where I was! As Duo has been a good language learning tool, unsurprisingly I got them all right. Its therefore just time consuming, boring and un-productive for any regular user to go through every lesson from level 0 upwards, yet again, even if they use 'levelling up' to speed up the process. I do 'look forward to learning' and, having previously completed the French tree. I was therefore using it daily to keep my standard up. I am not against repetition. I know repetition is a crucial part of the learning process. BUT, following this update I can't see how I'm going to be able to continue learning with Duo. To honour themselves as an effective learning tool, Duo should have designed their update to acknowledge that their long term users have already learnt the basics. Its just not effective for any long term concentrated user to stay with them, to put in hundreds of hours repeating the same stuff Duo claim to have already effectively taught us.
i was annoyed about this initially but i'm not one to complain, and so just got on with it.
but something that's quite frustrating is that, when you make it to ~halfway through the french course, a lot of correct answers are not allowed. like, a huge amount.
i guess that it's because only a few of the new users, who are the ones who have been feeding in all these alternatives, haven't made it to that point yet. it's probably too late to sort out now but in future could you let them do the course for a few more months before changing over please?
Dear Helpful Duo (or anyone), Please explain what is going on. For me, until I go to the discussions tab, I see no change in the trees, layout, or anything. Is there a problem with my account? If so, please could you fix it.
This is NOT a complaint, just confusion. I appreciate being able to learn a language for free, even with these bugs.
Hello Sebastian! They're rolling it out incrementally, and they've been a little coy about how long it will take for the content to update for every user. A lot of other users, including myself, are still waiting for the new tree. If you're really impatient, you can start a new account and access it that way.
Both my boyfriend and I have been using Duo for more than 2 years. I received the new Tree and enjoyed it, but my boyfriend still has the old tree. We couldn’t find a way to update his... any suggestions? We have the most update OS version and have updated Duo from the App Store too...
I think it is good that Duolingo thinks about improvement. However, now I have to test out again of all those basic skills again while some of the more advanced skills remained. I just don't get it. I don't need to learn "bonjour" and "salut" all over again. Is there a way we can get those skills checked of, because I can't redo the checkpoint and I had them all gold and that's what I cared about more than the crown number.
Now I have to test out of dozens of levels to get back to where I was? I just did 2 of them and it already feels really tedious. Duolingo provides no hints regarding which ones I already have good coverage of, and which ones have a lot of new content (if any), so I have to go through all of them one by one. Now googling for "alternatives to duolingo".
I have pointed this out previously and will continue to do so--some of the new material has many errors. One example is "restaurants 3". It is so full of errors that it is impossible to test out of the higher levels. Further as I noted in past, (my comments seem to have been removed) there is no effective way to communicate with Duo staff in this regard. On the whole I appreciate Duo more than any other internet language method and I continue to recommend it. Still there must be a better way to communicate errors than simply reporting them. At times I would like to explain precisely why Duo is wrong. In any case it is very hard to test out of level four "restaurants 3" due to Duo errors. This is very discouraging and a profound waste of time.
As I have noted previously, new materials are full of errors. An example is "restaurants 3" which is so full of Duo errors that it is impossible to test into level five. This is a profound waste of time. I like Duo and will continue to recommend it, but I wish there was a better way of communicating with staff about errors than simply reporting. In the past comments and explanations were allowed when submitting error reports. I believe this feature was helpful and should be re-instituted.
Making the blue dots go away after 48 hours was not helpful. I was level 25 before this and got bumped down to 0 (though it still says 25). I was not able to get through the 50+ blue dot lessons in that 48 hours, so now I have no idea which lessons have new content. I'm pretty hot about having to start over - it will take months of annoying, very basic repetition to get my tree back to where it was. BTW, Duolingo Plus and a 1103 day streak, so I'm not just passing through.
I sympathize. I don't compare well to your process because I'm studying one language in comparison to your several. But the most useful comparison to past trees is the total duration from tree to tree. Checking the incubator site is helpful because it displays that data. I'm flying through this new tree. As my speed of comprehension picks up I'll have more time between tree updates to focus on timed practice and parallel studies. For many, particularly younger users, it's easy to get stuck in the game mindset, taking every update as a setback. In reality, every update is an opportunity to simulate life in a language. Your total XP, your total crowns and your total coins and/or lingots effectively graph your growth in the language. Think of it not so much as a debit to your study account, but rather as new space for your language investment to grow. Your comment implies a desire to have kept personal notes about your progress, taking note of the blue dots. I think that's very wise that other such observations might prove very valuable in future study. Your streak is most impressive. I hope to make it where you are.
I didn’t make any note of the blue dots when my Spanish tree was updated, but I was more prepared when my French Tree 8 was updated to Tree 12, so I noted the skills which had blue dots. I don’t know if the blue dots are different if you are upgraded from a different French tree, but here are the 79 skills for which I had blue dots: Routine, City 4 to Encounters (46 skills), Vocab 1, Pronouns, Present 1, Relations, Jobs, Adject 2, Locations, Countries, Pronomials, Numbers 1, Animals 1, Comp Past 2, Adject 3, Pronouns 2, Abs Obj 1, Comms, Adverbs, Comp Past 3, Food 4, Pluperfect, Outdoors, Materials, Artistry, Weather 3, Adverbs 2, Pres Subj, Politics, Science, Verbs 5, Tech, Economics, Spiritual.
As an aside, I’ve stopped receiving emails with new posts from discussions that I’m following. I haven’t knowingly made any changes (either at my end or on Duolingo), so does anyone know why this may have happened, please?
As I understand it, it's being progressively rolled out, so it may not happen immediately. There are also reports of people having a new tree come in only to disappear not long after, so there seems to be some issues on Duo's end with the rollout.
In other words, you just gotta wait I think and it should show up relatively soon.
As of today, I am not seeing XP when testing out of a level with the new French course (online) which I am ok with, but this also doesn’t give streak credit. I use the streak credit as a way to keep track of days that I have gone in and put in effort towards learning with Duolingo. Is this a bug or another change. If a change, is there another way that the system can start tracking progress (for example streak credit for learning or testing our of at least two levels)?
At first I was a little upset at seeing the tree so different than what I was used to, though if it is make the course even better than it is selfish of me to be upset by that. I haven't tried the changed stuff yet but I thank you guys for trying to make the course even better.
My wife has been a Duo (French) member for about two years. She received the tree changes a couple of days ago. I've had a Duo French account for about 5 months. She showed me her "new grove" of French trees and I am very jealous. We just returned from a vacation in France. Some of the content of the new trees would have come in pretty handy. Honestly, I don't care about crowns and lingots (somehow I've ended up with over 32,000 lingots?!) and streaks. I'm in it to help me learn French. Can I have the new trees please.
Although I am really pleased with the new input there are still so many gremlins and incorrect usage of english that it is a minefield to try to second guess what Duo wants as an answer. For instance, in the new IMPERFECT examples there is no consistency with USE or USED in the answers. I look forward to the many corrections that still have to take place. Thank you for your continued updating -
I've come to accept that you are never going to allow me to entirely finish my Duolingo course in Spanish. This is now the second time I've been within a month of completing the last lesson at the highest level, only to have you suddenly shove in dozens of new lessons I have to also complete, starting again at the very lowest level to do so.
Oh well, it was certainly easier to test out of a new level 0 skill with only 4 lessons today than it would have been to raise my level 4 skill to level 5 by testing out of the next lesson in my prior course as of yesterday.
I will add though, that time spent on these new and minimally-needed lessons will be time I don't also have free to finish listening to your latest stories, the newest of which I'd been enjoying this week. Nor will I have as much time to read the graded level Spanish books I've also been reading.
Perhaps a good compromise might have been to allow testing out of more than one level of a lesson at a time. I suspect level 2 of the one I did today won't challenge me a bit more than level 1 did, so time doing it isn't really helping me progress in the language.
Anyhow, it's now clear that you aren't likely to end this behavior, so I'll just give you what time I have, and learn what I can, and face an interesting decision when it's next time to renew my Duolingo Plus, as to whether you are still my best bang for the buck in learning Spanish.
Don't be discouraged! There will come a time when you will know Spanish well enough that changes to the course will not derail you. The more you know, the more quickly you will be able to recover from "these setbacks". Just keep learning. You will eventually discover that every obstacle that you conquered has actually pushed you up to a higher level of knowledge and understanding. Take heart and keep your good attitude.
Tedee15 Thank you so much about this. Many people, myself included, appreciate info like this. Personally I don't think this would work through this thread. Also, AFAIK, Duo teaches Spanish as spoken in the USA and maybe Mexico (and maybe just parts of South America). I'd suggest the best avenue is to comment in the comments section of lessons for such specific sentences. At some stage (or already through a Search) a collection of Spanish as spoken in Spain (part of Spain?) could be posted on the Spanish forum.
I just have to say this was really discouraging to have lost all of my progress and go back to square one. I decided to go back to learning french and with years from high school and undergraduate I had retained not quite enough to test out of lessons but was going through the lessons quickly and was getting somewhere only to be thrown back into starting over all of the sudden, with content that seems boringly easy. This is kinda messed up Duolingo.
Can we not test out of a checkpoint? This starting from scratch again is very annoying and boring. Typing Bonjour x8 to get out of a level you've already done way too often, is a waste of time and it does not respect adult learning principles. I used the test out of 107 skills but it didn't put a dent in the basic kindergarten stuff. I'm hanging around hoping DL will add a test out of a check point feature.
You can test out, but you are punished for doing so because of the 20 XP test out cap they recently introduced. Many have asked for this change to be rolled back or somehow revised, but it appears Duo does not wish to do that unfortunately. This change on the other hand is great!
Employers are now quite wary of certificates. If you say you can speak conversational or fluent or basic French or Spanish and it matters to them they'd have a native speaker with them they'd chat to you and find out your level. But if you can speak or read or understand and respond in english that's something. Too many certificates being offered these days.
Someone else can probably explain better than me, but B2 is the point at which you are pretty functional in a language. A1 is the level where you're just starting out and you can say and understand a few simple things and have simple interactions. A2 and B1 are between those. (And then C is like, language superpowers.)
I did the tests recently and so I am c2 in English and French that means I am fluent in both equally. But my Spanish is only B1 or B2 depending on the test, that means my grammar is far from perfect and I could certainly not earny living in an office, but I am fine to work in car electronics because I have all the vocabulary that is not tested there. But it means I still have many skills that aren't good enough
Understandably there is concern and confusion around recent course changes, so we wanted to clarify what the changes are
Why not create a discussion to clarify the changes before rolling the changes out, to mitigate the concern and confusion? Is giving “fair warning” on changes to come in the near future so onerous a task for your deployment team that it continues to remain the exception rather than the rule?
Although we realize a forum explanation helps when it comes to getting the details, many learners prefer a quick understanding of what is happening to their course—so we have also been working on improving how tree updates are communicated on your course page since last time.
That hasn’t stopped many users from conflating these course changes with the recent style changes, asking how to get back the old style so that they can get back their crown levels in French and/or Spanish — not realizing that these changes are independent of each other, and not realizing that their total crown counts are unchanged. Providing a forum explanation before the changes are rolled out would help people to understand the scope of changes.
The total count isn’t unchanged, unless it’s a problem with duome... I lost around 30 crowns twice in French tree 12, only to have regained them twice when duo switched me back to the old tree 2 after testing out of a purple skill (for 0 points, but I guess that’s just another side effect of the tree toggling bug)
Either way, losing skill levels is really frustrating. When you are learning something as self study you have to set goals, and the skill levels switching to gold was very nice, not to mention the lower skill landmarks. When you lose them it's like you never did anything at all.
I enjoyed the beginning premise of Duolingo, learn a language by translating web pages (as with wikipedia) so I know the focus is not entirely goal oriented but it still hurts.
It's all very well telling us to make use of the checkpoints to test out but you haven't reset my checkpoint, only all the skills! I have 30 skills at level 0 before a checkpoint which I'm told I've passed and can't take again, then another 30 skills at level 0 afterwards before another checkpoint I'm told I've already taken. This suggestion is just rubbing it in. PLEASE let us retake the check points or at least test out of level 5 straight away rather than level 1. I'm sure your metrics look great as I've earned 20 crowns today but testing out of level 0 so quickly my fingers hurt from all the clicking isn't exactly teaching me any new french...
Only two of my many 5-crown old lessons are showing up in the new course. When I try working at that level, I'm told that I must achieve at least level one on all preceding approximately 100 lessons. I know there is much new content so it would be impractical to only go to level 1 in these lessons.
But just to try it out, I found that I could test out to level 1 in the beginning lessons in under four minute per lesson. That includes reporting a couple of alternative answers that should be accepted.
Alexrjl's suggestion is good -- allow testing out to level 5 from the start. That would al least get us a good start on the early lessons.
I also attempted to test out of my 55 skills and after working hard and getting through them, I received no XP and the first time I did not receive credit for the skills and had to test out a second time, still no experience but I did get my skills all to level one so that everything looked the same and better fit my attempts to study.
I would also appreciate it if Duo had a test out to level five feature—I'm going to call it a Philosopher's Key and a Philosopher's Checkpoint. I like the new content, but I took the French final checkpoint a few days ago and it leveled up all of the skills in the tree to level one. The checkpoint helped to make great (sarcasm) progress, considering I have 4x110=440 tests of French review to go before resuming learning. To make matters worse, the Spanish checkpoint didn't even level out of one, so it's about 5*90=450 tests until new material. The Philosopher's Key would reduce the total to about 110+90=200 tests and the Philosopher's Checkpoint would be about 20. I'd be especially happy if the Philosopher's test questions would be especially difficult to teach me something new while doing the monotonous review.
I do really like the new content, and even though it was jarring at first I am finding going through some of the new skills to be more helpful in solidifying some concepts. Thank you for all your hard work. My only issue is that I had some of the previous notes bookmarked and since they were removed my URLs no longer work. I'm sure the content I want is hidden somewhere but I was wondering if there is any way you could make this available in an archive of sorts? Even just for a short while. The change was so sudden I had no time to organize my notes properly since I thought I could rely on the URL.
Thanks, this is very good to be aware of - can you help me at all, for a couple of weeks all my discussion notifications have stopped reaching me so I have to spend about two hours a day trawling through all the discussions in the languages I am learning to find anything that I would have normally been notified about. I have raised a bug report about ten days ago to suit.
An upvote and some lingots to help your voice get heard!
This should give Duo pause for thought. Surely, like software updates, and as having 2 versions is possible during a progressive rollout, please give users an option "Update now" or "Remind me later".
Hope Duo lets the students complete their current course. Maybe send a report and ask for a reversion and a stay of (program) execution? Particularly if a lot of schools/groups want the same thing, on the Educators forum?
I agree with this - or perhaps the idea of accounts with a certain level of activity (daily activity, one a week activity, etc) finish their course before completely changing it. I understand that this new tree is great and added a lot of new content, but it's probably going to take months for me to test out of five levels of each egg that I had already passed - just to get to where I was. After doing this for a year straight. And I'm supposed to be traveling to France soon :(
From the classroom perspective this is a change that probably should have occurred in between semesters. In my case it happened when I was close to finishing a tree and I'm happy that new content will be available for my second pass through the tree but also wish I had the chance to cleanly finish the first pass.
That said, having just spent some time on the new tree, I wish I hadn't been set at skill level 0 for very basic skills like Greetings and Basics 2! I had a fully-gold tree in the 2015 version and a mostly Level 4 and 5 tree (450 crowns) in the previous version, and now I'm back to square one for many very simple topics.
I realise there's no requirement to revisit those topics if I don't want to, but I find any colour but gold aesthetically displeasing! Perhaps having a way to test out of all skill levels within a topic at once, instead of in five separate tests, would be a solution.
I've been waiting for this update a long time and it's a little frustrating to see an official announcement but still not have it. I'm maxed out on the old tree and new content would be most welcome. There was a message about the French course updating and it downloaded something, but only the looks changed. Could there be a bug or was that download just for graphics? Thanks.
New and improved content is appreciated. I think we all understand that courses need to evolve and improve over time, but your methods are madenning, and you're not listening to your users - repeatedly.
Advanced users need to be able to fully test out of lessons all at once by checkpoint. I'm finding myself doing very very basic stuff again, and seeing the same bad sentences all over again. I'm seeing sentences I flagged a year ago, some with hundreds of comments and down votes that I had made comments on a year ago. This is my third or fourth French tree, and I'm just repeating things over and over and over.
At first I was very excited to find Duo about two and a half years ago, and it has since been a part of my daily routine, but honestly, you're starting to lose me. This post is too little too late. All you've done is explain AFTER the fact, after massive complaints, why you did yet again what so many people have asked you not to do many times in the past.
Duo's lack of proper change management, lack of staff fixing or reviewing flagged content, and the myriad of inconsistencies is starting to weigh on my motivation. I'm cancelling my plus subscription and will find other ways to continue self study because frankly you're starting to waste my time. I'm sure I won't leave, but I need to stop using Duo as my main source of daily study.
The whole concept of Duo and learning online like this is revolutionary, and there is a lot of good here. But the high level of errors, pedantic sentences, reliance on volunteers for the hardest work, audio bugs, lack of fixes for poorly formatted sentences, offline lessons that don't work, discrepancies between the web and apps, constant sudden changes, moving the goal post, and then repeating it all over again is demotivating. Duo needs to fix some of the many glaring issues it has while adding new content. Simply stacking more on top of what's already there while repeatedly ignoring bugs and user complaints will eventually break what you've got, and you have a lot of good here - please don't break it. Please get a software architect that can help you deal with change management for smoother transitions and better integration of your platforms, otherwise you're going to lose people.
At different times in the past I tried to learn Spanish using a stack of books and could not even get a slightest foothold on the language. A lot of work for naught. While I am far from being anywhere near fluent, it amazes me how I can look at a sentence full of Spanish words and know what it says while most of my life it would mean nothing to me. Just a bunch of strange looking words.
Feel the same way about learning Turkish on DL (hope eventually to study Ottoman, its predecessor using the Arab-Persian alphabet). After looking through a half-dozen texts that introduce too much stuff all at once so you can't grasp any of it, I am still going to say that for native English speakers (especially those of us with adult ADD), DL with all its maddening quirks, remains the only door to Turkish.
I was already really impressed when the content of my Spanish tree increased to approximately 115 skills or so several months ago. That brought me back to using Duolingo regularly again, because I had already finished my original Spanish tree. When I initially saw this post, I was thinking it was referring to those changes, but it looks like even more content is going to be added? Wow!
Thanks for making these improvements! I'm really looking forward to even more additional content.
I have a suggestion. It would be wonderful if we could speak to live native speakers. Maybe you could connect people learning English with people learning spanish Also, please consider adding more options for speaking, including adding the lessons that record the learner's voice to mobile versions of Duolingo.
You should have a friendly popup message on duolingo, announcing the changes and the fact that all our progress was not lost, it has simply been redesigned. I was extremely discouraged and about to audit duolingo entirely when this happened and going to the forum is not my first idea. I don't use this forum!
I certainly appreciate all the new content, however it seems that just as soon as I think I am getting close to completing the spanish course then i realize how much more there is! Also you keep adding new content, is there any plan to bring back the extras like holidays? I have 2 of the 3 extras that you have to purchase and would like the holiday course added.
Thank you for the update. But I am concerned, I had been awarded golden owls when I completed my French and my Hindi tree. Then with the new look I lost both. Now mysteriously the golden owl has appeared on the Hindi site, but no news of the French golden owl. How do I get the French one back? I would really appreciate some advice. Many thanks.
Thanks for the new content, but here is a suggestion. Could you please leave access to the former tree mode so that we could check what we have learned before?
I have made a lot of notes based on the old trees, and it's too sudden to change the mode for me to sort my notes in time. it would be appreciated if it keeps access below the new trees.
it's not easy to reach to former progress, even though the new one is better. it is not necessary to design it in two learning modes, only to check the lightbulbs and vocabularies in the old trees. thank you.
I've got the new look ... but not the added skills (I know they're 2 separate projects). I joined in December 2018, but only just started really using Duo in 2019.
Will I eventually receive the added skills automatically, or is there something else I need to do to add the new skills to my tree? (Or am I out of luck, due to timing?)
I'm confused by how the layout toggles back and forth from the old to the new. I'm either back where I was originally, or I am almost at the start with a brand new tree to work on. Could you make it so that it is one or the other. BTW, the layout is also different with the phone app.
How fast is this rolling out? I'm still on the old tree, but I would love to have the new content because having more conversational words would help in my upcoming visit to France. (Also a friend is already using the new tree, and having the new tree would allow us to study together much more easily.)
I understand that this is a gradual rollout, but how do/will we know when we have the new trees? So far I see no change at all in my French tree. My Spanish tree looks like it may have been updated, with lots more purple skills and graphics in tips. But I haven't seen a banner alerting me to new course content, nor have I seen any blue dots. And my crown count is lower than it was, contrary to what the post says. So I'm assuming that my French tree hasn't been updated yet, but the status of my Spanish tree isn't clear to me.
I've had conflicting banner messages over the past couple of weeks but no course updates until yesterday. I just got the new French tree yesterday afternoon: banner, blue dots and all. I also got a banner yesterday for Spanish, but no new tree or blue dots or anything.
Sounds like you did indeed receive the new Spanish tree. You'll know when you get the new French tree because most of your "progress" will be wiped out. The new French course preserved my crown count, but I have yet to see any changes to my Spanish tree in spite of multiple banners.
I've also been checking duome to compare.
You know, sometimes it takes a while before dawn breaks on marble head.
It occurred to me yesterday that this "new content" (which wiped out everyone's progress) is connected to the capping of points for testing out.
Like many, I lost my golden owl in all trees when the Crown Thing happened. I was almost all the way to a golden owl in French (again) when the Redesign Thing happened and wiped out all progress to level zero -- except check points, from which I could no longer test out because they showed complete.
It is not "new content to look forward to learning" when I have to translate "Do you have a son/daughter/dog" repeatedly in tests. :-( Very disappointing, Duo.
I cannot see how to skip a level for a checkpoint. All my checkpoints say I have passed, but that is nonsense for the later ones. I just did three individual stages of an early topic, the family, and the questions in each stage were very repetitive. I guess I should just leave the early stages at zero and not waste my time? Not satisfactory.
While I'm sure the new course is improved, I'm feeling like the spider in the bath: every time I crawl to the top of the chain, I get washed back down the plughole and have to start over. I agree with the commentator who suggested more comprehensive test-outs, as having to do essentially the same basic lesson four or five times is very tiresome.
Regarding the notes, since my tree was (mostly) reset to zero I can get the notes for each the units up to, but not including, those past the last checkpoint. So most of the units were reset to purple, with notes available, except those I was actually working on prior to the change - ie: those from Vocab 1 onward. Is this deliberate or a glitch? Sorry if this has been asked and answered already but I searched and couldn't find it.
JimWilliam, not all skills in the tree have Tips. In fact, the Tips stop at Vocabulary 1, so it’s pure coincidence that that’s also where you were working.
Not all of your skills will have been reset to purple, depending on how much the content of the new skill overlaps with the old skills. That tends to be farther down the tree.
You can continue moving forwards in the tree even without doing the newly purple earlier skills. You just have to do the skills in the last row up to blue in order to open the next row.
Oh thanks muchly. I hadn't realised the tips ran out. They are very handy so I miss them. on the reset, there were about half a dozen that were gold but everything else went back to purple. But I actually find it handy to go back over the old stuff and drill it, so no big deal. Have been using the test function too, so am steadily turning everything back to gold (because I'm OCD) and mixing it up with some of the more advanced ones too. Thanks again.
What's the point of a tree anyway? It's not like I ever only want to learn plants, jobs and objects. It was fun at the beginning, especially before the crowns but now, if we are trying to get aligned to CEFR, I wouldn't mind just having big levels with percentage of material learnt, or maybe one crown for each 100 words. Then you can keep adding new words without messing up the trees every few months.
Thanks for the new content. I also notice that you are using more natural wording for the English responses when translating from French/Spanish to English. Having grammar tips on the iOS is very nice too! I've been doing this for over 4 years now and kept with it to keep my French/Spanish alive. Miss seeing levels when I'm using the iOS app though.
I just tried to do a lesson in the new tree. I was given a re-arrange the blocks question for Write this in English: Je vais faire les courses au supermarché. I got it wrong twice. Problem was that the blocks presented did not include all the words I needed to give the correct answer. And the blocks presented were different the two times.
I know perfectly well how to translate the French sentence into English.
And, this is a new improved tree??? I think not.
Oh, and just I made my third error: Apparently now this is the correct solution: I am going to go grocery shopping at the supermarket.
No, "grocery" is not one of the blocks. And this new correct answer is different from the previous correct answers.
If Duo fancies this to be a "new improved" tree, something is seriously wrong.
So my entire French tree resets and you guys think this is okay? 90% of the skills that I had gotten five crowns on is already information I had learned from my three years studying French in high school, and now their back at square one? I don't need to repeat these but now I have to! You make it sound like it's only a course here and there that will be reset, but it was all of them this is unacceptable!
As much as I'm looking forward to learning new stuff and support making Duolingo better, I can't help but feel sad as just as I was getting back into Duo and had my plan for completing my tree, and was getting my first courses up to level 5 I now have rows and rows and rows of purple skills and it feels like I've lost all my progress. I don't really know what to do about it - I don't really have many suggestions! It just makes my emotional brain sad but my rational brain happy. It does however feel weird that you do so much content before you start any tenses other than the present? Like... if you think about everyday conversations you have with people its all about what did you do yesterday or do you have any plans for the weekend. So for many people who won't get very far in their trees they won't actually know how to do that...
The change is really bad. Fine that Duolingo update content, but resetting progress is insane! I was about to start to learn the subjunctive, but now I have to redo 120 lessons/bubbles on the tree to get back there, starting with “Bonjour Marie” !! Which I can’t face and is a waste of time, so sorry but it’s “Au revoir Duolingo”. Shame since it’s a great product, but you have to work out how to save a customers progress when you update your tree.
Thank you guys for your hard work. actually I was so looking forward to see a tree covering further than A2 (as I know the tree was already up to A2 and as you mentioned you add more details, which is great) But since Duo is a learning source that has the power to really push me to got going and stay motivated, I really don’t know how to stay on track after A2. By the way, the tree is so much longer now. I totally thought it’s up to B1 now. Well… it’s so great that you are actually synchronizing it with CEFR. Thank you so so much.
I really appreciate all the new content, and I try not to get too hung up about crowns, trophies and what not. That said, I can't help but feel a bit like Sisyphus, as this is the second time I had managed to roll the rock to the top of the hill - only to discover later that it had rolled back down again.
Although I was originally dismayed at being put back to the beginning I decided to just treat the levels as a kind of revision exercise. In doing so I noticed the examples now have a stronger American bias. The bill, in England, is never called 'the check' and we wear trousers, pants being underwear. Why are we no longer being given the English words as options?
I think it's great that you guys are updating the trees to give us a better learning experience, but 90% of my completed skills were completely reset! What's going to happen the next time you work on the tree? Why should I even bother to max out the tree when you guys are just going to completely reset it the next time you fix it? My French tree was completely reset but my Spanish tree was untouched with the addition of some new courses which I haven't gotten to; why is this? Why are skills like 'basics 2' reset to level 0 for me who is at level 24 who has already completed the tree? Even if there's new material in these reset lessons, why couldn't they have been reset to only like level 4 so I would only have to test out once since I cannot take the checkpoint test anymore? If I can get through the test for level 5 just fine, don't you think that means I would have faired just as well on the tests for the previous levels? I'm finding myself now not learning new information, but rather monotonously testing out of these courses way at the beginning of the tree because I already know all of the information despite the new stuff. And if it's the case that the test doesn't have any new information, but is, instead, teaching it differently, then I see no reason why that course should have been reset for me at all. This is extremely discouraging. What does my progress mean if you guys can just reset it like that, and why have my crowns stayed the same even though I lost like 90% of them? If you guys are going to reset my progress, you should at least reset my crowns too so I don't go over the maximum number of crowns I could get in the French tree, especially since they don't contribute to my actual level for French as that's only XP. In addition, why is testing out of a level 4 course which has 25 plus lessons worth the same XP as testing out of a level 0 course which only has about four lessons? I understand that it really isn't fair to award the same amount of XP for just testing out of level 4 instead of actually doing all 25 lessons, but 20 XP for testing out of 25 lessons is so little. I'm never going to reach level 25 that way! At least do a system where it's related to how many lessons you're testing out of or do something like 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 XP for testing out of levels 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4, respectively. I appreciate that you guys are updating the trees and making sure that we are learning the most correct information and that we are more motivated to stay with the tree, but I don't think that should come at the cost of 90% of my progress. I think, if anything, I'm extremely unmotivated now because I have no idea what my progress means anymore if it can all go away in an instant. Just my thoughts...
Ooh, I've been updated! I'd been starting to look forward to that and am excited about the new content!
I'm also quite happy that it didn't reverse my previous progress much or at all. The first two thirds or so of my previous previous tree were pretty much untouched, then comes a fair amount of new lessons before the last third or so of my old tree is there again, with some new lessons mixed in here and there. I'm looking forward to get started on it! Thanks, duolingo! :)
Is it possible that you finished the test without "passing" it? This is just a guess, because I heard from another person who successfully passed this test and all his units moved up to level 1. I decided to test out each unit, one by one, in order to find out more about the new content. And at the end of the tree I was given a final checkpoint test, which I completed and passed.
Question for Helpful Duo. About the new tree, I now have so many skills turned from golden into purple, and like others here, I am a little frustrated that I have to go back and redo all the simple beginning courses. It's time-consuming to do the 5 or so test-outs for each Skill level. My suggestion: Can you add a "test out" at each Checkpoint -- that would cover all the previous circles in that section? For example, a test-out at the first Checkpoint would turn all the skill badges golden from Basics 1 to Restaurants. As a side note, I notice that checkpoints are not completely in the same places in the Android version of the app.
Just got the new tree today. Wow ... more Spanish. Cooool!
Also, wow ... more work! Gulp.
I don't see any blue dots or purpled-out earlier lessons; maybe that's because I'm still just past the Intro. Notes look very good; maybe the cartoonicons could be smaller, but that's a petty nitpick.
Hi, If you look up this link when you're learning Spanish (put your user name betweeen the / and /progress)
you will see the total skills available.
If it says 113 skills (or less) you have the old tree.
It is says 159 skills, your tree has been updated to the 'new' tree.
When you are learning French, if the Duome page says "Tree 12" then you have the new tree.
So far, in this round AFAIK only Spanish and French are updated.
What does a new tree look like? If you have already been far up(down) the tree i.e. nearly completed, then the "new" will be very obvious because suddenly you have a lot of NEW = PURPLE skills pop up. Not obvious if your old tree has been young, with lots of unavailable colourless skills.
My tree does indeed look quite different now! I was expecting changes to the French tree. I had read in the Discussions that some trees had more "subjects" (Basics, People, Travel, etc.) than others. I believe that my old tree had the least number of subjects, so I was looking forward to an update. But I was shocked to see my previously all-gold tree turned to mostly purple! There are certainly more subjects in this new tree than there were in my old tree, but I see nothing with blue dots. Why not? I don't remember exactly how many crowns I had in my old French tree (I think it might have been 319), but in the new tree I had less than 220. And I know that I had nearly 980 total crowns in all language trees, and my new total was less than 800, so I don't know how you can say that "those shiny crowns are still in your total crown count." I have a lot of work to do to get my tree golden again. Many months, I would think. And I haven't even looked at my Spanish tree yet!
It was very confusing when the new trees appeared without any apparent notice. I don't mind starting on the Basic skills again even though I completed similar material sucessfully. However I am not sure that it has added to my progress. I do hesitate to test out since I don't want to miss anything. I certainly need to get a better knowlege of grammar.
I can see a lot of improvement in the new skill tree, especially when it comes to the "lightbulb notes" stuff, so good job on that. The new option to learn to identify the sounds in the language is also rad. However interesting the new skill tree may be to new learners and helpful in improving the retention statistics among those new users, it is not interesting at all to the people who continue learning and who lost their progress. I really understand that it's a step forward business-wise and all, but unfortunately, it's done at the expense of us, the old users. I have no interest whatsoever in going through the mundane process of making up the lost progress and going through the old vocabulary that is now marked as new because of the update. Honestly, I'm struggling not to fall asleep while I'm going through the boring material I already know and I start wondering if I'm even doing it right. Is there a way to come back to the point when I last stopped learning before the big update? I can't find those grammar skills anymore because they probably changed name or are inside the vocabulary skills. And one very important note on the "skill test" option. All the sentences in those tests are French-to-English translations (in my case, obviously, as I'm learning French). How does it practice my French spelling? All I'm doing is spelling the English words, or, even worse - selecting the English words to correspond to the French sentence. I'll pass on it, I don't really need to practice my English spelling. In fact, I'm privately an English teacher, so I'm only here on duo to learn and practice spelling in languages other than English. Languages because of which I'm here! Maybe it's just a temporary bug, but it's been this way for weeks now. Fix this problem, pretty please! Sorry if my comment sounds grumpy. I just really want to contribute to duolingo and I can't see any comments about the French-to-English transation issue, so that may mean I'm the first one to feel frustrated about it.
This is super frustrating. I had finished my tree, and all of the new material starts at way too basic a level. But because there's some new vocabulary introduced and I had already passed all the checkpoints, I can't just test out of it. It would be better if the new vocabulary could be introduced with more challenging sentences / grammar, so I'm not going through tons of "il fait froid" lessons to get to the occasional new word.
Two friends who are doing French told me that they were halfway through the course and with the update everything has been reset to zero. Isn't that disheartening to find the tree entirely grey? I thought that updates were supposed to take account of prior learning and place you back in at the right level not send you back to the beginning. Of course, skipping is possible but still ... Is it supposed to be like this? Thanks
It happened to me. It sucks. I had everything in gold and now I am back to square one. Plus, You have to take all 5 tests per lesson. At least there should be a level-5 lesson test. And, all 5 tests are basically the same. It sucks. I am no longer recommending DuoLingo.
I really dislike the way Duolingo now throws out a random verb tense I've never been exposed to. It's completely random. Nine questions I'm learning about l'ecole then BAM future conditional of avior. I wish they still sectioned lessons off as Verbs or Past Tense, etc... When learning those areas really need specific focus.
@HelpfulDuo -- I appreciate your detailed post about the changes. You can see from my streak that I have "lived" though major changes in the tree before with no explanatory posts, so I appreciate it. I see many complaint posts (because frustration is high), but would you like some constructive feedback from a long time user (who has completed the tree in the past)? With so many posts, I'm not sure you are still reading all the comments, some of which do have legit, specific suggestions. If you are still reading this, please let me know and I can send to you in another way than this post.
Please note: The length of time spent in Duo is the wrong metric for measuring success of any changes. This is something we fear you have never understood. Longer time does NOT equate to "better" learning. Very often the opposite is true. The new features do not work properly, and the whole system becomes harder and slower to use.. sometimes even impossible to use. A case in point, the cutesy people pictures heading lessons on Android phones stole all the screen space, leaving less than one line for typing our response to the exercise. Fortunately, the pictures are now gone, (Thank you) but that is the kind of thing that should NOT HAPPEN. Please, do not think students spending more time in Duo is because everything is working well, because too often it is because it is not. Seriously.
I have been holding myself in tree 2 for French for a while because i was hesitant about the other classes. So today I deleted my class so I could get the new tree. If it was not good I was going to recreate the class and go back to tree 2.
But I like it!
It looks like I will need to try testing out as much as my "progress" is gone. But that is ok. I have new course work!
I checked out the notes and they have improved substantially.
The only downside is that I used tinycards for the french class a lot. I especially found using tiny cards before trying to go from level 2 to 3 and beyond helpful. Also I used tinycards as a refresher before I "practiced" a skill to get it up to 100% again.
I am very happy to have the new tree even though I was at level 23 and a half. I have not problem redoing the basics because I need for them to be automatic and engrained, embedded. The notes were in fact lucid and fun. Thank you so much for creating this amazing platform.
Maybe you'll finish Arabic tree and trees for some other languages that are in Beta version? Like Hungarian.
Thank you for the update/ alignment to CEFR and for letting us know what is happening. Is it possible to add something that will let us know of the effort required to reach decaying work to 100%? Believe me no estoy cansada o muy feliz, pero I am still stuck on "people" at 75%. Mercy!!!
I love the changes. I have avoided the changes for a while and kept my version 2 tree by using the trick of staying in a duolingo class. I was up to level 2 (2 golden owls) and a 3rd of the way to a level 4.
Like others that switched to a new tree I lost all (both) my golden owls - and almost all my skills are at 0 level. But that is ok. At first I was a little concerned, but basically it means that I have to test out to get all my old strength back up again. It is very energizing and confirming to see how much I have learned when I am testing out to a new level. I love that I am getting no errors. After so many months of struggling to learn this is my first experience that it is paying off. I am sure I will be struggling again in no time after I finish testing out and start encountering new material!
I love that subjects like "greetings" and "travel" are now early on in the course (I think that's a new thing, anyway.) I've been learning Italian for an upcoming trip there, and have wished these types of topics were near the beginning. Good work! It's nice to feel like you're learning things that you can use right away in person!
Oh well. I had the tree completed once and then it was changed. I have been going back through testing out one ring per day, but I have a ways to go. Well, like French, here we go again. On the other hand, my Spanish skills are pretty good and I use Duolingo to review and maintain them.
I have tried every browser there is, the app you name it Had to downgrade my up 2 months ago because it started going through my complete internet allowance in no time (1 GB in 10 days) So I thought the new stuff is on the desktop version. It isn't available there either. My trees are all sorts of colours because I don't really care about very repetitive translation exercises. Even less because the English in the Spanish course is often very bad. But yes I would like some more advanced material. Have completed Spanish 3 years ago but still participate a lot in my club. Now they tell me the club's disappeared too?
Hey HelpfulDuo- Thank you for the update. I have noticed (Even before the appearance update and this content one) that the skills after the fourth checkpoint for Spanish have no lessons (The lightbulb icons, I think you called them tips). I use the lessons a lot, and they let me know if I can test out of something. Also, I have not noticed the changes yet, though I am on the last checkpoint, so maybe you guys just didn't add anything for that area. Thanks, ESK
French. Didn't notice big differences. However, the clauses within each skill seem me now more logically- (or grammatically-) oriented. German. Please, may I have my red, yellow, and black scarf back on my golden owl? (thank you in advance) Overall. Thank you all for your great efforts in making such a great (and free) product available to the learning population. Have a lingot and a kudo. All the best!
I had been testing out one skill a day in German, but otherwise ignoring French and using other sources for Italian. The change made me go to the tab that says test out 116 skills. I saw many sentences that I had not previously seen. The message said that I had tested out of 150 skills, and the next message said 1 basic plus 151 other skills. It added an XP of 50, 116 more crowns and an increase of the Level 0 skills from 0 to 1. I now have 506 crowns. It was good to see new sentences. I will go back in the immediate future to my other Italian courses and one skill a day in German, but may in future switch that from German to French and Italian.
I was thinking that Duolingo already goes us to WE, but I was wrong. And I had to practice about 300 to 350 a week for more than 2 years to understand that I am still in A1. For instance on French I have got a NEW already and it was not so difficult as some expressions in Duolingo. I use Duolingo to keep me fit, but I am a bit tired to change the tree, the pointing system many times. Really confused. It seems to me eternal and demotivating. As we are going from L1 to LET we have to type more and more and I don't like it so much. Why? There isn't a choice to change style of questions yet, and I feel bored many times. IMHO, Duolingo should integrate Duolingo Labs and classical Duolingo. It should also the two versions, web and mobile, converge so as ONE Duolingo integrated could motivate learners with different activities, not boring and creative! Thanks! I appreciate though any try to improve Duolingo the largest learning community, I guess.
Fluency just means that you can use the language without much strain of thought, it doesn't even mean that your grammar is perfect or anything. With that said, you have to read, write, listen & speak in the language which you're learning everyday until it becomes second nature & Duolingo only gives a good foundation but unless you're interacting with people in your target language you'll never become fluent.
MichelleJo Becoming fluent takes awhile. Duo is a great stepping stone to fluency but it is not the only thing you can do. Reading, watching movies, listening to music are part of the process, as well as speaking with spanish speakers. I would also HIGHLY recommend that you try the reverse course as it is loaded with new vocab, different sentences and new grammar.
I keep on getting a message listing new Spanish words I will be learning today. However, when I go into the course at the point I am at, there is no connection with the new words. How do I find them? Could the notification include a link to take me directly to the point where the new words are introduced.
Personally I promised myself I would start reading Daniel Pennacs books in French if the tree was full, so this kinda puts that schedule off... But I have not yet finished the Kangaroo Chronicles in German yet.. So I am not overly disappointed, since it does definitely improve my french skills, and that is definitely still required.. Even though slowly I begin to be able to have conversations with french friends in french..
I am a bit frustrated with the changes. It is a bit like skiing down an avalanche. I worry I'll never get to the upper levels in French! On the other hand, as I re-do the circles, I see many improvements! The pronunciation examples are most helpful and I wish they had been there my first two times through! The vocabulary seems to be moving at an easier and more logical pace with the new material. To that end, kudos!
Is there a reason why we keep our old crowns even if they were reset? Am I just going to have more crowns than the French tree offers when I max it out? That seems odd to me. I understand that the XP we've earned so far should stay because that represents how much time we have spent learning French, but I don't think my crowns should stay if I no longer have them
I love the new French content and design. The notes are very helpful. Although I miss the quirkiness of learning sentences like, "Ce poisson vit un siecle." and "Il va me donner son cochon.", there was some doubt about whether I'd ever have occasion to use them. Thanks for making what we learn so much more relevant.
I just received the update on my tablet. First I'll say thanks. I'm more than happy to expand the knowledge base and increase ability. Second, I've been doing this site for awhile now and I really like it and have been through many updates and keep coming back. I will say that I've lost my owl once again due to another update and maybe I'm having a bad day but it is upsetting to have to chase it again. Duome shows that I need 244 lessons to get my owl back. I'm a level 24 with no owl and yes that bugs me. Does it mean anything in the big picture? No it doesn't but to me at least it's something I can look at. Back to the chase.
no! I don't like duolingo now! I think that you should at least have an option to switch back to the old tree! I was so close to a golden owl! now I will never get it!
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I understand, and appreciate trying to make them more comprehensible. Also, I am feeling constantly jerked around by Duo for the last four years... tress changing all the time is like impossible moving targets, same with all the interesting little extras. Work hard on translation, oop, never mind. Here try conversation, well now that you’ve almost finished that we will remove it. I am only half hearted about using the stories. I feel very flinchy about the trees. Here is hoping for the best cause I bet they change it while finally making a solid dent in my progress....
I love the new French tree! I took me a while to receive it, but Duolingo politely asked me whether I wanted to download the revised French course, and of course, I said yes. I kept track of my status before the update and I noticed after some time that I had lost 190 crowns, I did not experience any loss in total XP or lingots. My tree was completely finished before the update, i.e. I was at crown level 5 for all units and practically all my units had 100% strength.
And here is the strategy I used to receive this download invitation: I had switched my learning language to Italian and finished the English tree from Italian before switching back to learning French from English. I observed that several people had tried to initiate the download of the new trees unsuccessfully with different methods. I suspect that perhaps switching the learning language may be similar to starting completely new on Duolingo. I vaguely remember that I may also have switched the learning language to trigger the download of the new Spanish tree a while back. I am not an insider and can only speculate on how some of this triggers might work.
I am not sure how much time I can spend to bring the revised French tree to completion. I could probably test out of all the 116 new and revised units with a single checkpoint test, but I will begin working through all the units individually just to see whether all those complaints are really justified. Of course, I will principally used the test-out options in all the units going through the tree crown level by crown level. I have a test-out button at the bottom of the tree where I could possibly just convert all the purple units to blue, but I think I can do so very quickly the "slow route" as well. I really want to see with my own eyes what the new tree is all about. I have no gray units in my tree with the exception of the final checkpoint at the end of the tree.
I am just going to add that I regained my golden owl in about 2 days by mostly testing out of most of the units. When the units had only 3 or fewer lessons, I chose to perform all the lessons individually, just to go through the experience. I really like the new tree. And I also passed the final checkpoint test at the end of the course. I have to say that I am quite impressed by all the work that was put in by those volunteers who created the new revised tree. Countless hours of hard work, writing scripts and testing. All for us to use at no cost. Where else can you get such a great deal?
I am sure that going through crown level 1 of the tree was relatively easy. If I remember correctly, it only contained french text that needed to be translated into English. It does contain quite a bit of new vocabulary and some really long sentences, and perhaps, even some translations that where not straight forward. And perhaps, it will also contain a few missed translations, but that's where we can support the Duolingo team by reporting typos, etc.
I admit that I am not a beginner in French, but I have to relearn it again after more than 40 years of disuse. And Duolingo is helping wonderfully with reaching my goal. I just want everyone to know that we should never give in to discouragement no matter what goal we pursue and no matter how steep the path may appear.
The new tree just rolled out for me today. Although new content is clearly in the tree, no blue dots showed. Small bug? Also, would it be possible to have the banner appear before rollout? I rarely check the Discussion posts...usually just after a new rollout to see what changed. A little warning would be nice.
Despite being close to finishing the old tree(to level 2) I'm glad that new content has been added but would also like the opportunity to finish up the current pass through the tree. In my case it looks like all I would need is an old unit 5 checkpoint so I don't do the full tree checkpoint and give myself credit for lessons I have not done yet. For others a method of switching between trees would be nice.
JennineLeh Hi, If you look up this link when you're learning Spanish (put your user name in between the / and /progress)
you will see the total skills available.
If it says 113 skills (or less) you have the old tree.
It is says 159 skills, your tree has been updated to the 'new' tree.
The blue dots appear only for a short time, for skills with something added. Completely new skills are purple.
If you have already been far up(down) the tree i.e. nearly completed, then the "new" will be very obvious because suddenly you have a lot of NEW = PURPLE skills pop up. Not obvious if your old tree has been young, with lots of unavailable colourless skills.
when you have more content that's good enough to present to new accounts don't hesitate in bringing it to older ones as well. i almost had everything golden, but i just need to up the ante a little bit and have this thing all golden pretty quickly too. (now also reading all the notes as well) the vocabulary has expanded and one or 2 new concepts are introduced. (things like isimo etc. wasn't in the old tree)
HI. Is there a way to find out which are the underlying skills in the new French tree? The new descriptions are functional, rather than technical, so I don't know where to look for lessons in various tenses etc. The reason I ask is that I am up to Vocab 1 and am encountering some questions using futur tense (eg: "Nous ne serons jamais d'accord."), as well as the occasional imparfait (using the verb "etais" for example) but which I'm pretty sure I hadn't yet covered in my progress up to when all this new content was added. Are the lessons on those kinds of things buried somewhere in the tree under "shopping" or "weekend" or "travel" or something?
I was about 3/4 threw the old tree when --surprise the new version popped up about a month ago. I decided to start over again from Basics 1 and I am delighted with the new tree. The focus has changed from emphasizing grammer rules to a much more practical and useful approach - at least for me. With the repetition of the sentences especially in the red, orange and gold level I am remembering more. A big bonus is that I am listening more carefully to the pronounciations and I am getting much better. Duo, thank you for the upgrade- I feel like Im starting to make a break through towards my goal of speaking French.
One thing you still can and should improve is to make it easier to report Duolingo errors. As with anything new, errors are made, but you need to allow your users to be able to explain through the report button when there is a problem. I find that the only way I can report some errors (for example homophones that should be accepted) is by reporting a bug and it took me a very long time to figure out how to do that.
The course is better. The notes are great. but the update SUCKS because I lost all my progress!
You guys at DuoLingo know about gamification! Why would you turn all my beautifully golden lessons into begginer level?
I understand the new course is different, I am not suggesting I should automatically get all the credits. However I suggest: A) Make it easy for me to test out of the lessons I passed before B) Don't charge me 5 lingots per test C) Don't make me take the 5 tests to finish all levels, allow me to take the level 5 test directly D) At this point, refund me the lingots I invested in passing these tests and apologize for wasting my time over older lessons
I am seriously considering switching over to Babbel or other sevice - anyone has recommendations?
Duolingos version of A2 is what i thought B1 was for what it's worth. The A2 content taught here is more than enough to make you conversational, granted you spend enough time speaking to people both orally and in text outside of Duo.
A2 sounds really novice but it's way more comprehensive than a lot of people originally thought from the content delivered on Duo.
As I’ve spent mire time with this update there is one annoying new characteristic. It throws a random word or idiom at you without any preparation. I welcome larger vocabulary and more verb forms but randomly using a past tense form without some exposure first teaches very little.
I am really surprised that some experienced users don't like this change. Having completed old French tree (the owl and 80% gold) I found really exciting being given a chance to review my knowledge. The new lessons are great. This is the way I would want to be taught at school - only as much grammar as needed to speak and if one wants more it may be checked in a grammar book. I learned French at school, I use French to communicate and read texts and I become more and more fluent. However, I have to admit, that there were some rules I didn't know (e.g. "du/de la" or "de" use). This is the first time I was told directly how to do so many things.
I was given (yes - given, and i am thankful for this) over 100 purple skills to work with. They are rather easy to master at 1st or 2nd level for someone who did the old tree. In fact it takes 2-2,5 minutes do unlock one, so regaining the owl is the matter of only couple hours. However, the further I go, an accomplition becomes less authomatic. For me it is a great deal to make the same material once again.
I don't know what to complain of. That grumble is especially funny, when told by someone who is like on 15th level, took some basics and states: "Oh no. I'm too good for the basics. Where are my 20 golden lessons? Gimme, gimme, gimme". Let's say it straight - if you have no problem at all doing these exercises, it means you don't need Duolingo anymore and you should go further searching for some other learning opportunities. 10-y-o owl and golden circles issues aside.
vvv Thank you for this illustration of the point I believe to be ridiculous. You have like 24, 36 or 48 goes to complete a lesson and 1 or 5 more is a problem? Only few at the very beginning are like 'how are you’ or ‘i am fine’. I believe the problem is not in the course, but in people who are becoming generally more and more demanding and complaining. They want everything, right here, right now. They don't even consider changes by means of new possibilities. There is always 'I was taken' instead of 'I was given'.
The problem is that the basics have way too much repetition for those of us that already mastered it. The problem is that duolingo knocked those ofus at the end all the way back to basics when we were learning higher more complicated French. Reviewing basics is just wasted time for those if us at a higher level. Nothing learned to repeat translate ‘how are you’, ‘i am fine’, ‘i like dogs’, ‘his name is Duo’ twenty times each. You wouldn’t put a 5th year french student in a first year french class. It is brutally boring just to test and test get to a point where i am learning again. The point of the app is to learn. They should make it easier to test out to get back to learning at the level i was at before. After i waste my time testing past the boring stuff, hopefully it will have more advanced sentences and new vocabulary. Honestly I haven’t seen anything new yet in the new tree. Also the new tree has quite a few mistakes which i’m sure they’ll fix as it goes along. It is also frustrating that we can only test out to level 1 in the app. So to test out to level 5, you cannot use the app. Why not?! i need to use a pc and go online which means i cannot take a few minutes here and there to test out - i have to be home. :/
I found the new tree in my French and Spanish courses. To my disappointment, the number of crowns in French decreased dramatically from about 200 to 70. The number of Spanish crowns was ok, though. I just want to know why that happened. FYI my French score is over 18000 and it's unlikely that I have less than 100 crowns. It may not be a big deal for you, but still is a motivating factor for me. Thanks.
Not acceptable. I now have to spend much time testing out on level 1 & 2. really bad idea. I have not come across anything i have not already learned. I don't have time to repeat all this work. This is the best effort I've seen lately to alienate and disillusion customers/students.
Why is the top level only A2? Don't you at least need B2 to be fluent (or at least B1)? Here is what you are supposed to be able to do at the different levels and as you can see, A2 is VERY basic. https://www.coe.int/en/web/common-european-framework-reference-languages/table-1-cefr-3.3-common-reference-levels-global-scale
You did good! I like the new learning methodology. I especially like the part where you have to listen to an explanation then select the correct option.
Now I have to decide whether to interrupt my Italian course with 28 days to go on it, or finish the French course once I finish the Italian.