https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BRAZILIAN PORTUGUESE AND EUROPEAN PORTUGUESE #1

I hope you guys appreciate these new series of posts! I hope I can post one of these each week. Tell me what you think of this idea!

Brazilians use the word ‘você’ both for formal and informal situations (just like with ‘you’ in English). That doesn’t happen in European Portuguese. In Portugal, you either use ‘tu’ or ‘você’ depending if you’re talking to someone in an informal or formal way. The ending form of the verb you use with ‘tu’ or ‘você’ changes accordingly.

Boa sorte!

April 1, 2019

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeinB.

This is a brilliant idea. Exactly what I needed and I'm interested in. Thanks so much, I'm looking forward to your next posts.

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

Obrigado pelo teu comentário simpático!

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeinB.

Obrigado. Você é (Tu és) um falante nativo de português?

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

Não, infelizmente. Mas aprendo o português europeu

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneilsonHD
June 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneilsonHD

:o eu já vi postagens e comentários seus por aqui e achava que seu português era nativo.

June 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blurflux

Another important detail to mention is that we do use tu in many parts of Brazil, but it is usually conjugated as third person, just like você/cê, o senhor and a senhora (we substitute pronouns for these last two nouns, depending on gender, when we want to address someone formally and respectfully).

Few dialects of Brazil, such as those of some parts of Rio Grande do Sul and Pará, actually conjugate it as a second person, and in much of Northeastern Brazil (particularly from Alagoas to Maranhão IIRC), there is a phonologically simplified form of second person conjugation (e.g. 'tu visse?' instead of 'tu viste?' for 'have you seen it?/did you see that?')

The third person conjugation of tu, as well as the reduced form of você, cê/'cê, is both extremely informal and is almost never used in serious published writing, and tends to communicate youth slang or regional dialects when used in other forms of media, such as television or radio, while the second person conjugation is extremely dated and only used when emulating people who speak those dialects as well as European or African Portuguese.

On a final note, like Adam735887 mentioned, while tu communicates informality, and você, o senhor and a senhora in Portugal communicate formality, the first one of the last three also communicates equality as opposed to respect, and the combination of equality and formality often translates as distance, so Portuguese people might take it as cold if you 'você' them (unless you are obviously speaking Brazilian Portuguese, or if you are a foreigner).

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Osunsina

Obrigada! Lingots to you for this and future posts!

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISpeakAlien

Which one is the formal one: tu or você?

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

In Portugal:

Tu - Singular informal (use it for friends and family)

Você - Singular formal (use it for people you don't know well, work superiors, older people, etc)

Vocês - Plural informal

Vós - Plural formal (not used much... a bit of an archaism)

In Brazil:

In most regions in Brazil "tu" is not regularly used... so "você" will serve both for formal and informal singular treatment. Or to put in another way, there's no "formal you".

April 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonVerss

Formal you is o senhor/a senhora. Elders might feel disrespected when treated with tu or você.

April 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scutigera

Are you actually in Portugal Jules? Are you also the, "Intrepid Guide"?

There are several errors in your post and the comment I am replying to here.

The biggest is that "você" simply is not used much in Portugal. At best it is a treatment of equals that do not know (or like) each other well. It is considered rude, crude, insulting, and uneducated. It is tolerated from Brazilian speakers and others who clearly are not from Portugal as it is understood they probably learned the Brazilian version of PT.

Vocês is now just the plural, formal or not.

Nonetheless, these are indirect 3rd Person "treatment" pronouns much like "sir" or "mister" or "ma'am" would be in English.

Vós is the plural of tu. It is not used as much in the south as in the north but that makes sense as it still is very much used in Galician (Spain) from which the Portuguese language was born. And "vosso/a" for the plural possessive is used all over Portugal (and the other PT places besides Brazil). Because "vós" is not used so much anymore some people consider it formal because when they do see it, it is in the bible (same with "tu" for a lot of Brazilians) but it is the direct 2nd Person Plural.

https://portuguese.stackexchange.com/questions/1659/qual-%C3%A9-a-etiqueta-no-uso-de-v%C3%B3s-podeis-v%C3%B3s-sabeis-etc-no-norte-de-portugal

This is good too and, as you can see not even those in the same place can fully agree:

https://portuguese.stackexchange.com/questions/390/why-is-v%C3%B3s-rarely-used-today/

In Portugal if people are not comfortable or familiar enough for "tu" then they will use; O/A Senhor/a (with or without name but some use surnames while others use given names with the honorific); the educational title such as, "O Engenheiro" (pretty much anyone with a degree in Portugal gets the title of "Doutor") or; simply the name, O Nuno/A Maria.

Of course these are all also 3rd Person "treatment" pronouns as well so can be for talking to, or about someone.

Here, a 5-year old quote from a native PT speaker here:
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/1272499/Tu-Voce

At any rate, you rarely hear "você", which is implicit, but rather "O senhor/a senhora", "O Doutor", etc. or you simply omit the subject altogether, which is the by far the most common usage, I'd say. See examples below:

  • Desculpe, pode abrir-me a porta, por favor? instead of:
  • Desculpe, O SENHOR pode abrir-me a aporta, por favor? – and by the way, you would never say something like:
  • Desculpe, VOCÊ pode abrir-me a aporta, por favor?

In Brazil, tu is regularly used by some 27 million people there which is actually more than the population of Portugal so not really something to dismiss.

And of course, the formal "you" in Brazil is the same as in Portugal.

May 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davymiguel4666

eu sou brasileiro

April 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zzaxx

Português é um idioma bem complicado, parabéns pela sua iniciativa. Aqui no Rio Grande do Sul, região mais extrema ao sul do Brasil, usamos o pronome TU, mas só para falar com alguém na nossa faixa de idade. Para tratar com pessoas mais velhas é Senhor ou Senhora, muito poucas pessoas falam você. Já na Bahia (terra linda de povo respeitoso) onde morei 6 anos, usa-se o pronome Você de forma bem geral e igual ao resto do Brasil.

June 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keapie

você = formal tu = informal

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davymiguel4666

tudo bem

April 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam735887

Obrigado, Jules. I heard somewhere that when using 'você' in Portugal, one has to be very careful as some may find it insulting and too formal. Is this true?

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blurflux

Yes, it is true. In Brazil, we use tu and você informally, and o senhor or a senhora (approximately like sir or ma'am, but used in place of pronouns) formally. In Portugal, they use tu informally, and o senhor and a senhora formally. Therefore, você communicates equality together with distance, and this can come across as cold.

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Osunsina

Obrigada! Lingots to you!

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

Correct, Use the formal you, você or o/a senhor/a. To be more precise...
"O/a senhor/a" it's the standard for the "formal you", it's how someone at a store, a bank or a restaurant will treat you

"Você" while also formal it's a small degree below... for that neighbour that you don't know too well for instance. Or for someone you know for some time now but it's not quite a close friend. Some friends can treat themselves using "você" the whole life.

Both forms take the 3rd person singular the same.

This is relative to Portugal... In Brazil there are tweaks to this formula.

As a rule of thumb don't use "tu" for people you don't know, exception being kids as it sounds off to address kids with the formal you.

As a rule of thumb don't use "tu" for people you don't know, exception being kids as it sounds off to address kids with the formal you.

April 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blurflux

I'd actually really recommend using o senhor or a senhora for one's neighbor, unless they explicitly tell you not to. Particularly if they're some 10 years older than you, older than ~42, and/or older than ~35 and living with a partner/spouse.

April 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Facemeu

Eu sou brasileiro e a gente só usa "TU" em gírias. Ex: É tu mesmo!

April 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesF.

As I understand, that varies quite a lot depending on the region, right? I've read that in the Rio/São Paulo area "você" is much more prevalent than "tu".

April 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blurflux

In São Paulo tu is not very common at all and they mostly use cê when being ridiculously informal. In Rio de Janeiro tu and cê are equally prevalent.

April 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dioidioi

I wish there was a European Portuguese course on Duolingo

June 10, 2019
Learn Portuguese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.