https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

Tree 2

Sziasztok!

We started working on a new version of the tree.

I said earlier in the Forum that we cannot start a new tree until we get out of Beta. But luckily Duolingo staff can open a new tree, and we asked them nicely.

Our plans for the new tree include:

Reogranizing the skills at the beginning, to make it more step-by-step.

Removing the infamous Directional conjunctions 1, 2, 3

Adding Future tense, Imperative and Comparative adjectives...

We would like to hear your ideas too!

April 13, 2019

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/2Milena

Wow that's great.

I started Hungarian last year but I gave up after half of tree :(

I think that the biggest problem is that sentences are too long and complicated even at the start of the tree.

Best of luck guys.I would really like to finish this course.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/7_Julia_7

I'm just starting it, and I find it overwhelming. I agree with what you said - the sentences are way too long and complicated, even right here at the beginning. It's off putting, because I can't understand the structure, and there's too much being thrown at me.

It did not seem like other languages where this complicated, right off the bat.

Hungarian is notoriously difficult to learn. A slower start would be way better.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/MadyNora

Szuper! :) Néhány ötlet:

  • Egy kezdő kurzusban semmi szükség nincs irdatlan hosszú mondatokra. Igen, mi anyanyelviek szeretjük a hosszú mondatokat, de a KEZDŐ nyelvtanulók először a nyelvtan alapjait magát értsék meg és sajátítsák el. Majd később kb. középhaladó szinten, amikor már berögzültek a legfontosabb nyelvtani szabályok, jöhetnek a 70 szavas mondatszörnyek (csak hogy kezdjenek hozzászokni :) ) de a nyelvtant magát rövid és tömör mondatokkal lehet megtanítani és megértetni. Nem kell rögtön a mély vízbe bedobni egy kezdőt, hogy aztán az életkedve is elmenjen..... Pláne egy olyan brutális nyelvtannal bíró nyelvnél, mint a magyar.
  • Jó lenne, ha a mondatok kicsit.... földhözragadtabbak lennének. Szeretem a vicces mondatokat, és abszolút megvan a őnekik is a helyük, de amikor a kurzus 90%a vicces mondat, az egy... vicc. A norvég kurzust tudom felhozni példának (ami sztem az egyik legjobb kurzus a duolingon), ahol az új nyelvtant/szókincset többségében olyan mondatokkal magyarázza el, amik a való életben is elhangozhatnak, és időnként bedob 1-1 vicceset is.
  • Apropó, szókincs: bevallom, a magyar fát nem nem kezdtem meg a duolingon, így nem tudom van-e itt ilyen (ha igen, akkor elnézést :) ), de 1-2 szókincs lecke jöhetne. Ahol nincs új nyelvtan, csak szókincsbővítés 1-1 témakörben, olyan mondatokkal, amik az előző lecke nyelvtanait is gyakoroltatják egyben.
  • És: légyszíves figyeljetek az angol nyelvtanra.... bocsánat, de néha a mondatok angol fordításától egyszerűen kettéáll a fejem :(
April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/HirundoPrima

Ezeket az ötleteket csak támogatni tudom.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/peter.kristof.hu

This is good news.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/HirundoPrima

Csodálatos!

Hogy őszinte legyek, a magam részéről úgy gondolom, hogy épp itt volt már az ideje, hogy a Duolingo magyartanfolyama kapjon egy frissítést. A kurzus jelenlegi, béta verziója ugyanis egy nagyon kezdetleges állapotot képvisel, hogy finoman fogalmazzak. Még magyar anyanyelvűként, az angolt igencsak magas szinten beszélve is merő kínszenvedés volt eljutni az aranybagolyig. Látván pedig, hogy a spanyol és francia kurzusok rendszeresen új leckékkel gyarapodnak, na meg új és új nyelvek kerülnek be a keltetőbe (nagy örömömre a latin és a finn is köztük van), eltöltött a csüggedés, és attól féltem, a magyar kurzus mindörökre bétában ragadt.

Mindezek okán most hatalmas az örömöm annak láttán, hogy végre újra figyelmet kap oly hőn szeretett magyar nyelvem tanfolyama. Ezúton szeretnék sok sikert kívánni a munkához, tűkön ülve várva az új leckék megjelenését és remélve, hogy a magyartanfolyam mihamarabb elhagyhatja a béta-állapotot.

A legmélyebb tisztelettel,

Hirundo

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Judit294350

Sounds great. I admit I have avoided working further on Directional conjunctions as it made me too frustrated!

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcoC2018

Thank you very much!!! This is a great news!

You already know where to improve. Definitely remove the most arcane stuff and keep it "smartly" simple, that is of course different from dumbly simple. Here is my list of small two cents:

  1. Do not insist too much on a single concept, we don't need to know directions in an hundred ways (sorry to beat that dead horse again, is just as an example).

  2. Verb tenses are important. My personal order of importance is: the auxiliaries (with and without prefixes), the past, the infinite (with kell), the imperative, the conditional and the future.

  3. Be less focused on the literally translation, please accept the fact that one-to-one translations in many cases do not pay a favor nor to English nor to Hungarian. For instance in the reverse tree Magyar->Angol they are quite more flexible and many sentences refer to very interesting and useful ways of saying in both languages (that of course cannot be and are not translated literally).

April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Apu56

Different types of food were some of the first words I learned. Curse words and phrases were probably a close second, but I'm guessing there won't be a category for that. Even though Hungary has a rich history.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/KaiChiu1

A little bit more on food would be great!

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

There is just one Food skill in Tree 1, and that is very late in the course. In the new version there will be Food 1 and Food 2. Food 1 with basic stuff (tea, coffee, milk, bread, orange )

Please list foods that you would like to see. :)

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Judit294350

Öhön? I guess not. But it is still popular around the Hortobárgy and we have öhön parties and competitions in the summer. They even had it one night at Summer School - but it was very badly made and inedible.

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/peter.kristof.hu

Öhön, its other name is slambuc. I know and I've cooked it This is a typical shepherd's meal, it's simple and very fine: http://receptletoltes.hu/hu/arch%C3%ADvum/3086

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

I’ve never heard about it...

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Judit294350

It was the default food at the Hortobárgy when people would be harvesting etc for 6 days a week. They would take out tészta, szalonna, and potatoes for the week. The richer would also have onions and piros paprika. Lunch would be prepared in the bogrács over a fire - prepared and eaten within an hour. The mark of good öhön would be turning it 32 times in the pot. Traditionally it is eaten straight out of the bogrács with a spoon - but only the wedge directly in front of you. :-)

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

I googled it and found the recipe:) The article said, if you are from the Hortobágy region, you will know this meal, if not, then not...

This could be a good rule of thumb: if I am Hungarian and I never used a word in my life, we don't need to teach it. :)

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I think the course would benefit from taking inspiration from the CEFR alignment that's been undertaken for other languages and using frequency lists to inform the vocab choices. I definitely don't mind some creative sentences, but a lot of sentences seem to have extra parts added that do more to add length than value for the learner.

April 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Hubinou

Szia Jzsuzsi !

That's a great idea ! Adding future tense and imperative will fill an important gap. Thank you very much for your work.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/thegreatwalle

Would love to alpha test the new tree later if there's an opportunity to do so! Glad to see you're planning on adding imperatives. I'd also love to see more material on perfective particles like meg-.

April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

Thanks, we will need an alpha tester at some point.

And meg- is a good idea.

April 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/orangemiez

Oh yes - I would also prefer the latter!

April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Apu56

Oh Boy, that is good news but my current tree is close to being all golden. Is all of that work gone? Not the knowledge of course. I guess it won't be the end of the world if I have to start over.

April 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Angryfatcat

I'm pleased to hear this, but I'm also a little concerned.

What is the long term goal here?

Is it to start a competing tree that will also be in Beta? In other words, is this a successor or a competitor to the existing tree? Will both exist and potentially make it out of Beta or can there only be one tree that makes it out of Beta?

How far away is the current tree from leaving Beta? At this point, does a division of resources makes sense or is the current tree so far away from leaving Beta that it will effectively be abandoned?

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

The long term goal is to have a good Hungarian course on Duolingo:)

With every Duo course, if a new tree appears, first there is an A/B test to see wich version performs better. If the new version wins, everyone will be moved to the new tree.

The current tree is pretty far from leaving Beta, that's why I put my hopes in the new one.

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Suzana021

Sziasztok! Magyar anyanyelvű angol tanár vagyok, a lányom ugyan magyar anyanyelvű, de hollandul jobban beszél, ír és olvas. Ma elkezdett magyarul tanulni, a segítő nyelv angol. Nagyon megizzadtunk a mondatokkal, pedig még csak hat feladatsort csináltunk végig. Nagyon nehéznek találom a magyar mondatokat egy kezdőnek, hosszúak és bonyolultak. A magyar mondatok fordításai pedig pedig nem egyszer 'angoltalanok', itt a szórendre gondolok. A lányom - 11 éves - nagyon élvezi ettől függetlenül, szuper, hogy itt van lehetősége magyarul tanulni. Köszönjük a fejlesztőknek, és sok sikert a további munkájukhoz.

April 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/WaltQO

Great. Improvement is always welcomed!!! I am going to write down a few of suggestions for your consideration. I'll post them later. Thanks.

April 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Mirlington

Maybe place animals closer to the beginning

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/KaiChiu1

I second this!

April 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/MissSpells

This is great news! I think most things I would suggest have already been suggested by others more articulately. Shorter, simpler sentences. More practicle sentences that people would actually say and are not just grammar riddles. I would also suggest, please use english vocab that most english speakers know (i am still confused about what a 'roe deer' is or why I need to know the word for 'pig's knee' in any language... or maybe make a special 'culture' section for these more obscure topics). I also think by providing some sentences with more real world context, some grammar might be clearer. More flexibility in accepted translations in both languages (though I know this is difficult and time consuming). Thankyou for all your hard work.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/vytah
  • 1353

Please fewer sentences about flying kindergarten teachers.

Please no sentences that are so long that they don't fit on the screen:

April 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Judit294350

I love the flying kindergarten teachers! (And those long sentences are useful - I know I am only just starting French but I find the sentences trivially short)

April 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

This bugs sentence was disabled months ago.

April 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/vytah
  • 1353

Great to hear. I haven't followed the course in a while.

April 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Angryfatcat

How is second hu/en tree being handled? If you look at the incubator, it appears that Duolingo is only designed to handle 1 tree per language combination.

You can see the state of the current hu/en course here: https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/hu/en/status

Since both are hu/en - how can one see the status of the new tree?

April 29, 2019
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