https://www.duolingo.com/deborah853655

New French Tree

I am still struggling with accepting this new French tree that starts us off at square one no matter how many years we've been doing this. I did test out of 107 skills but that didn't put a dent in it. Why can't we test out of an entire checkpoint like before? How many times will I have to type basic stuff like "Bonjour and ca va bien" before I get back out of kindergarten. This is so demotivating and not in keeping with adult learning principles. DL what are you doing?!

April 13, 2019

58 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/obaoill

In French I am level 23, Crown Level 215, XP 24595. I will now have to start from scratch and spend months to reach my previous level of attainment. I don't think I'll bother. Interestingly, my Dutch course is unaffected.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/pentaan

Interestingly, my Dutch course is unaffected.

Reason: Your Dutch course has not been updated.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

I feel you. "luckily" I was only a third into the tree. Also, afaik the changes are for Spanish and French. But maybe dutch is targeted as well

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/gatiquo

A very abrupt and destructive update. It could have been much better.

April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

You're totally right! Instead of starting us at level 0 with all the new skills, our old level should have played into the placement and I also think they should have given us a placement test as well. For example, my "Numbers", "Basics 2", and "Past Imperfect" are only a few examples of skills that were golden for me before the update that were bumped back to level 0 after the update.

April 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

I agree! I almost had a completely golden tree and now my tree looks like I just started. I wish we could pass out of more than one level/skill at the same time more often.

April 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

It's all good and well, but we must send an email to the duo team so they know lots of french learners think so. Without that, we can just sit around in the forum and complain our life away.

April 14, 2019

[deactivated user]

    I think I'll just delete my account instead; the ugly new theme was reason enough since it's extremely hard to read. LingoDeer is superior anyway, so I guess they'll be the ones getting my money.

    April 15, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

    I'll believe you when you do

    April 15, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/deborah853655

    I searched and there is no email address to write to for these types of questions so I wrote to the journalist & blogger address - heh heh... We should all do that! Let's see if anyone is actually listening out there!! But think of their motivation - they want to expose us to more ads which mean more $ for them, so slowing our progress = $$$ here's the only contact info I found: Are you having any trouble? Find help here. Journalists and bloggers, please reach out to: press@duolingo.com Advertise with us: sponsorships.duolingo.com Looking to partner with us?: partnerships@duolingo.com

    May 11, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/pentaan

    Advanced students might start from the bottom of the tree in the skills with new lessons.
    In my experience in other updated courses, some new lessons in the easy skills will switch to completed on their own, when you are starting at the bottom of the tree.

    April 13, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/deborah853655

    has anyone tried this in French though? I will give it a go...

    May 16, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    Before saying anything else: I so appreciate DL being available worldwide, without charge, making language learning truly accessible to millions of people who could otherwise not afford to do it. So, thank you, DL team!
    That being said, though, this re-shuffle of the French trees is super, super frustrating!! My "leisure" time is valuable, and I spend a fair bit of it on DL with the goal of improving my language levels - not having to re-take French Basic Phrases 1. Surely, there must be a better way (possibly for us to re-take a comprehensive assessment test) than to bring all these modules back to level 0?

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

    Perhaps a more "placement" tests can be added to test out of multiple skills and levels at the same time.

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    ...that would be nice!! Have a lingot!

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

    Thanks!

    Even before the update, I didn't like how I could only test out of one level of one skill at a time after everything was lvl 1. Now I would be willing to push for a new "test out" option to pass out of levels that should have been counted as complete in the first place.

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    Update: as an experiment, I took the "testing out of 105 skills" test a few times, eventually successfully, and as a result a whole slew of lesson modules have been updated with higher skill levels - none remaining at the depressing Level 0. YAY! My motivation to continue with DL French is restored :>)

    April 16, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/deborah853655

    it wouldn't let me test out a second time - how did you keep testing out of 105 skills?

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    As long as I made enough errors to lose all my hearts it let me re-take the test....

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Gordon964264

    Could you please tell me where the "testing out of 105 skills" can be found before I give up on DL?

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    I found it at the very bottom, after the last lesson module. In any case... don't give up - frustrating as it may get from time to time, it still enables us to learn more than I could from any other freely accessible source - don't let the small stuff stop you...

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Gordon964264

    Thanks but I can't find it. Is it below the last checkpoint of the tree? Because I have nothing there. Anyway, I don't see the point in continuing when I'm asked to translate "one" into French (and that was at level four)

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    For me it showed up in the position of the last check point until I finally did "test out" successfully. So am afraid that that avenue is not open to you at this point. I see your point. Sorry to see you leave, though!

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Chloe6720

    The course has been updated with new content and grammar so that it aligns with CEFR standards, certain elements of French that weren't there before are now. The change is primarily for new/ short-term users as Duolingo begins to grow even bigger. So while it is frustrating, the practice should never hurt.

    April 15, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/LotSparham

    I can see, and appreciate, that. As a "refresher" student, it's still useful to go through the more basic stuff just to remember the dotting of i's and crossing of t's. I also like seeing the single-syllable listening exercises; they're good for (re-) training the ear. All in all, for me the positive still outweighs the negative.

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Sharon884224

    I've taken a break from DL for a while, was starting to dabble in it again, and then this update happens. I had started at the bottom last year and worked my way up to Level 20, and I was trying to resume doing that, but one of the lessons I completed (spiritual) recently now shows I have done nothing on it. Is there something in the new program that removes it if you make a certain number of errors? I'm not testing out because my weakest skill is understanding spoken French, I'm much better at reading it, and the first test is to translate spoken French to English.

    April 13, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/MikeNolan6

    You don't HAVE to re-do the early lessons, you can just leave them alone. But if you want your entire tree at level 5, you'll have to spend some time on that admittedly boring review.

    April 13, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

    And that is wrong!! You shouldn't spend so much time on basic stuff you've already learned! Also it affects what words you see in later skills!

    April 13, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

    Much agreed! I was only a few crowns from a completely golden tree, but it's going to be a while before my new tree is completely golden. At least my reverse tree is only a few crowns from golden.

    April 13, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/MikeNolan6

    Gee, you don't suppose that means there might actually be course content you haven't seen yet??

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

    I don't wish to start an argument, but a lot of the "new" content is not actually new content, but rather a lot of basic content that most of us had already covered on the old tree. I do agree that there is some new content, but a majority of the "new" content is not new for us.

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/deborah853655

    totally! How many times do we need to type un homme americain before finishing that boring level? They are way too repetitive, even for beginners but are sheer torture for anyone who has even a modicum of the language.

    April 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/setijoso

    if you would direct me to the new content I would be happy to start from there, but unfortunately it is hidden behind all the content that we've seen before since we have to start from lvl 0. Do you understand our predicament?

    April 14, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

    New content in basic level is still basic. Sure it is great to have it, but not on the expense of my whole progress

    April 14, 2019

    [deactivated user]

      So 2 new vocab terms out of 35 total should drop my level 5 skill down to level 0?

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/MusclemanEric

      I hate this update. I have no problem with the lessons I completed resetting, because I frequently go back and review completed lessons anyways. However, I preferred the way it was organized before: I could specifically review demonstrative pronouns for example (something I feel I still need practice in, despite finishing that lesson). Now, I can't find where the demonstrative pronouns are, because the lessons are organized by the topic of what's being said, rather than the linguistic concept you're learning. (In learning a language, what's being said isn't important. What's important is learning to HOW to construct whatever it is you wanna say. And that's what I originally liked about DL. In DL's Portuguese course, we say fun things like "my tiger is vegetarian" and "the bear is having a beer", because it doesn't matter if it's possible. What matters is being able to understand WHAT'S being said and learning HOW to construct a sentence. Now, with the new French tree, I can't find the specific syntactical concepts I want to review.)

      April 17, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/JimThibaul

      This I can agree with, want to review the Past Tense do the lesson with old tree. Now you have subjects they may ask you in one lesson write "He went to school" in another lesson "They purchased a new house". Sure past tense but you do not know where to find the content when you want to review.

      April 17, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/Brighid

      I totally agree. I'm so disappointed with this new layout. I don't want a tourists' phrase book, I want to learn grammar.

      April 18, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/Cheezx

      DL = Download ?

      April 13, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

      DL=Duolingo

      April 13, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/Cheezx

      Thank you !

      April 13, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/lovazianina

      Also, I think the notes for each skill are less helpful than the previous ones.

      April 14, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/murzy1

      It also seems like some of the important lessons have been eliminated, such as numbers (unless I am missing something).

      April 14, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/mmsilver01

      There is still one "Numbers" lessons in the tree. It is right beneath "Past Imperfect"

      April 14, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/murzy1

      Got it--thanks for pointing this out.

      April 14, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/jolynnedougherty

      Numbers are sprinkled throughout the course now.

      April 16, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/JimThibaul

      I have been exploring the new tree and the material is different and presented different. I do not know if it would be possible to say you were here and that is equivalent to this. The new tree is to me just some thing to do, I do not care if I see a pile of gold icons. Like I said I have been exploring the content and even though I have studied for years I do make a few mistakes, see a few new things I did not know.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/Gordon964264

      Not only that but if you skip through from level 0 to 5, the level of questions is the same in level 5 as in level 1. I don't have to be reminded that an aubergine is not a purple banana ad nauseam!! Very frustrating as I had completed the tree to level 5.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/c5nest

      When the new content was added I was at level 25 and within 8 skills of completing my tree. Although I welcome the new more advanced content, I really resent the basic content that I must now mindlessly test out of. This is the second time that this has happened.

      If a similar "upgrade" occurs before I complete my tree, I will probably abandon the Duolingo platform entirely. These changes don't really affect beginners but are very discouraging to intermediate students.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/obaoill

      I have read all the comments and we seem to be of the same opinion about DL's clumsy update and our dislike of it. My problem now is that I can't unfollow this discussion despite tapping the unfollow icon until I am blue in the face (try to translate that!) Any suggestions?

      April 18, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/Bazedq

      I can see why they've done it and appreciate the spacing out, but they could've matched old skills with the new ones better. I feel like I haven't learned anything new in a while because I've just been doing my 5x unlock quizzes for each new skill early on in the tree. Very disheartening.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/mclaughry

      My experience has been the same and my response similar.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/wealtheow

      I too am very frustrated with the recent update. I was working toward getting 5 crowns throughout my French tree and to have it go back to basics is very discouraging. Please tell me that this won't happen with my Danish, etc. where I have also have been slowing building to a "golden" tree. LotSpaham speaks for me as well--I really appreciate what Duolingo is and has done to make learning languages available. But this update for the French lessons is verrrrry irritating.

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/kostor

      Every language tree is subject to change if duo's team sees it fit

      April 15, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/lovazianina

      Of course it is, as long as it makes learning easier and more efficient...

      April 17, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/bri136137

      I declined to test out of skills and have declined a few chances to leap ahead. I'm through about a quarter of the tree in just a few days. I can realistically see finishing the entire new tree in under a month, even though it's longer. For me, the comparison of performance from one tree to the next is a more accurate indicator of progress. The updated trees more accurately simulate a life with the language. I hope that comes to be the prevailing attitude in this community. I hope to achieve what you have in terms of consistency.

      April 17, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/7_Julia_7

      I still don't have the update. I wish it would just update, already. I know - everyone is saying the update sucks. But since it's going to happen sooner or later, I wish it would just be done with, already. Sure, it sounds like it's going to be bad, but, right now, I just feel like I'm wasting my time....I keep doing my lessons, but I feel like, well, all this work I'm doing is just going to be taken away from me when I get the new tree. If I had the new tree, at least this work would count as progress.

      April 17, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/lyle796525

      But it is likely that in a year whatever "progress" you will have made on your new tree will be taken away anyway as they will update it again and you'll start all over as has happened to me and many other at least twice. Seems to me that doing Dueling means making peace with this dynamic, like sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill over and over.

      April 17, 2019
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