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  5. "Loro vogliono che tu mangi p…

"Loro vogliono che tu mangi pesce."

Translation:They want you to eat fish.

April 11, 2013

51 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Louiselyd

I don't understand why the 'che' is necessary in this sentence. Can someone explain please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjlagrande

If I think of it literally as "They want that you eat fish", the "che" makes sense to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukkapazza

In English, desires, needs and preferences can be phrased in a variety of ways: I wish you would eat, I want you to go, I wish that you would move your car... but here is a structure you will often see in Italian:

Desire/need/preference/wish... + che + usually subjunctive

  • Voglio che tu mi dica la verità/I want you to tell me the truth
  • Spero che la volpe vada via/I hope the wolf goes away
  • Pensiamo che non sia giusto/We think it isn't right

Think of che as a marker. That doesn't always show up in the English equivalents, but in Italian that is how you know something uncertain and most likely the subjunctive will follow.

This che business does change if the hopes and desires are for yourself...

  • Lui vuole andarsene/He wants to go
  • Io spero di vincere/I hope I win
  • Noi pensiamo di essere i migliori/We think we are the best
  • Mia madre preferisce bere caffè/My mother prefers drinking coffee

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klara-Ilona

@ mukkapazza , Thank you very much for the comment! (Vielen Dank für den Kommentar!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XlUi8bZ7

That was very helpful, thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lynettemcw

You are correct. But you should also mention that che is used in many cases before another subject/clause. While it can indicate a subjunctive, it is the verb that is the other important factor there. Many sentences use che in a quite similar way that are imperative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindann

I put that answer and it was wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard78640

DL have slipped in the subjunctive tense here. Not for the first time. An easy explanation is that, if the subject of the first verb is different to the second, then "che" must be used. I could go on but let's just leave it at that!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yoel.

why isn't the subjunctive used here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kturowski

IS there a subjunctive in italian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yoel.

Yes. But It turns out that the second-person for "mangiare" is the same in subjunctive and normal present tense. So in this case it doesn't make a difference to what you write.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard78640

Indeed there is and very important it is too. Crops up in English too but very rarely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pmm123

I'm hoping to see an answer to this question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eikyuu

The subjunctive is being used here! It is called Congiuntivo, and the conjugation is Mangi for TU, just the same as it would be in the present. http://www.italian-verbs.com/verbi-italiani/coniugazione.php?id=5931


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Thanks for that link, very useful! I'm happy because I see the subjunctive in Italian is similar to Catalan, my language. :D If you're curious:

Ita: Tu vuoi che io canti. Cat: Tu vols que jo canti.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OrchidBlack

I put "they would like you to eat fish." Why is this wrong? Is there a separate phrase for "would like"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kornelija98

Yes it is: they would like= loro vorrebbero


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PamelaJohnson1

I keep putting "would like" instead of "want" and getting marked wrong - it seems more polite to my English ears!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lexht

"want" is an active verb, "would like" is subjunctive. It's a different grammatical structure


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndyP11

I think you are not correct in saying that 'Would like' is subjunctive. 'They would like' is translated as Vorrebbero which is the 3rd person plural of the verb Volere (Conditional).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RomancePhilology

It should be noted that the conditional mood changes the present subjunctive into the imperfect subjunctive:

Loro vorrebbero che tu mangassi pesce.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bwheat714

this is a clunky sentence in english. even more confusing in italian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zoewofford

This really doesn't make that much sense to me how awkward this sentence is translated back to English. Why "che" anyways? wouldn't it be more formal to put "the" instead of "that"!! im shook.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alkajugl

In my opinion DL has caused a great deal of confusion here by giving students a sentence that requires the subjunctive long before there is a clear explanation of this structure. They should change this sentence And while I'm at it,, they are also sowing confusion by mixing the use of e and ed with no explanation or rule to guide the students.. In both cases the discussions show considerable bewilderment..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/googlyeyedfrog

why is the infinitive version mangiare not used in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sollihein

others have pointed it out, but i thought i'd reply to you. romance languages do not use the same sentence structure as English in this case. what you'd say as "i want you to do something" (do being infinitive) in Romance would normally be "i want that you do something" (do being subjunctive). only in this case it happens the subjunctive is similar to simple present.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oxfordgrad

One of the definitions of "voglio" is to wish. I don't know why I got that sentence wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tebo33unm

Again, DL does not accept the definitions which it has given, in this case, "They would like" as opposed to they want. The former would seem to fit more comfortably with the use of che.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cinque55

"Ne" was listed as one of the terms to be studied but didn't appear in the lessons except as a wrong answer in the multiple choice. How is "ne" used in Italian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnFrost7

I'm confused by this word 'che' which appears to have three separate meanings (that / and / what). Specifically, in which instance would you use 'che' for 'and' instead of 'e' or 'ed'? Are they completely interchangeable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanteB0

but i don't wana eat fish :I


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thefinancist

When do we decide whether we interpret "che" as what or that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eikyuu

It's just a matter of what comes after it, really. This happens in all of French, Portuguese, Spanish, etc. In Italian, we can add a degree of separation to the expressions, however. If you wanted to say "I want what you want" you'd use "ciò che" or "quello che." Ask a native Italophone and they will often they you that you can use whichever sounds best for you or in the sentence, but that they mean the same and can thus be used interchangeably.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanteB0

in a way, the "they want that you eat fish" kinda makes sense in a way, atleast to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ellis930361

I was wondering, do Italians have shorthand / texting abbreviations or such?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

This che has the same function, and also very similar pronunciation, as the ki in Persian, Turkish, Urdu and Hindi. Interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Franky856374

Could the sentence work without ''che''?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSXYZ9

Ei vor ca tu sa mananci peste.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deana958965

I translated into English -They want for you to eat fish.- And it was correct. 06/2018


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arkadios200

Heads up: mangi is a subjunctive form verb here, and its form happens to be the same as its indicative form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa952967

I wrote down exactly what the answer is and I got it wrong?? I think this app has some glitches sometimes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fenella909728

Why have che in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlaCulve

Good Lord!! I took grammar in grade school. What is all this subjunctive, 3rd person imperitive etc............ so confusing. Im doomed to have poor italian grammar and be thought of as backward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lynettemcw

People don't really need much grammar for their own language. If you grow up in a household that uses the standard dialect (whatever that may be) well, you know all the rules before your first grammar class, even if you couldn't verbalize them. But when you are studying another language you need at least the basic vocabulary to discuss the differences in the rules. In the scheme of the world's 1600+ languages, Italian and English are rather closely related as languages on close branches of the same tree, but there are striking differences. To the extent you can dissect and categorize the differences, you will find them easier to internalize. Of course nothing replaced lots of exposure in making what is right sound right.

If you make good use of Google or whatever search engine you like, it should help you. I am going to run down the basic definitions of the terms you identified, but googling simply "The Italian subjunctive" or "Italian imperative" most of the links would provide a simple definition of the term in general before looking at Italian examples. If you can phrase a query, you can gets lots of different approaches to the answer.

The subjunctive mood has only a small vestige in English, so your English grammar wouldn't have helped here much. The easiest place to see the subjunctive is with the verb wish. I wish there were more. The past subjunctive often talks about a contrary to fact situation. If I were rich... You know I am not from this. The present subjunctive just introduced doubt.

In Italian, the formal you uses capitalized versions of third person forms for the formal you. Third person pronouns are generally he/she/it (singular) and they (plural). So you can have essentially a third person imperative (command) for the formal you. But it is my impression that Modern Italian uses its formal address much less than other European languages, depending on where you are in Italy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnAlienHere

So, can someone give me an example of where this phrase would be used? And please use easy words that are already taught by Duolingo till' now. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lynettemcw

This is not a set expression. Whatever situation you might imagine for the English sentence, it would be the same. The scenario I just came up with

Tutti i miei dottori mi dicono che mangio troppa carne rossa. Ovviamente. (Loro) vogliono che tu mangi pesce. All my doctors tell me that I eat too much red meat. Of course. They want you to eat fish.

But as I said the point is not the actual "message" itself. It's how all the individual elements form together to carry that message that Duo is trying to teach. With this pattern you can construct many sentences. My husband wants me to get a job. His boss wants them to move.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WyomingMad

Who is this mysterious "they" and why do they care what I eat?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rhalfik

Non credo di loro. Rompi il sistema! Mangi formagio.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Asperganoid

scratches forehead.

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