April 2019 Updates
Hello Duolinguists—we are getting close to the end of the month and have a ton of updates that we want to share with you! To avoid too many sticky posts, but still make sure you are aware of what’s happening, we’re combining the news into one post this time. Here are notable updates that are either coming, currently rolling out, or that happened recently:
- CEFR aligned content: Spanish and French (from English) and English (from Spanish and Portuguese) courses got injected with fresh new content to align with the CEFR. See full announcement and explanations here;
- Android and iOS are going to get more similar: Leaderboards and Health will start rolling out to new users on the mobile platforms that did not previously have them;
- Leaderboards is now available on iOS and will soon come to the website as well. Attention! Leaderboards are in the process of replacing Clubs, so make sure you follow your club-friends this month!;
- Course Contributors can now add audio to all courses that were missing it!;
- Speaking of which, High Valyrian and Hawaiian now have audio. Give them a try!;
- In case you missed it, Finnish is now incubating;
- The top menu bar on web will get updated and look a little different, inspired by the app look;
- Plus users on iOS can already take a Progress Quiz in all languages, and this feature should be coming to Android as well (in the coming weeks), and eventually to web;
- Bonus XP for combos is back on Android. It is planned to roll out to iOS next, and then to web as well.
Did you notice anything about the changes? What would make them great? Share your thoughts with us! If you want to send us feedback, we’re gathering feature-specific suggestions and ideas around this April update here, and we hope to hear from you too.
You want to roll out Health to "discourage binging behavior" but you have implemented a Leagues/Leaderboard system which does nothing but promote binging behavior.
Get your act together, Duo.
Get rid of Leagues, revamp and update the Clubs mechanism to provide a more interactive and enriching learning experience, and above all get rid of the Health system.
On a positive note, I like that you are aligning your courses to CEFR. Great news.
I noticed this! Why get rid of the Clubs in Mobile? They have a leaderboard in them, and are doing just fine. There's no need to mess with it. Its not doing anything wrong.
Removing clubs will make it more difficult for users to connect with other learners, it's being replaced by leader boards to encourage binging and thus make them more money.
All clubs are are pretty much jam-packed of positives. You meet others, you learn from others from the comfort of your own phone/computer. It improves your language speaking, even more than DuoLingos'language lessons (respectively). They also can give an array of diverse culture and tradition, as it is one of the few, if not the ONLY features that really feels personalized in an intimate setting
Couldn't agree more. Health should be removed completely, not forced on the rest of us.
I think they're only rolling it out because Duolingo premium would essentially be useless without it, since it hides ads AND gives unlimited health
I hate the health idea. It limits my education and everyone elses. If we want to learn, we shouldn't have to wait four hours.
ChevyBarnes05, do you usually go back and practice when the system won't let you advance?
@HelpfulDuo, when I want to practice I do more lessons in the skill that I want to improve at. Pedagogical reason: The Practice button is not targeted towards what I might want to practice at any given time. Gamification reason: Also the Practice button doesn’t move the needle towards increasing the crown levels on my skills.
P.S. I use the web browser on my phone so I can avoid the word tiles at all levels (primary reason) and so I can avoid Health (secondary reason).
Back when I was still using the app, yes I would do Practice sessions to earn back health. Then I built up enough gems that I could buy back as much Health as I could ever want, and I stopped using Practice and would buy my way out of it instead.
If Practice is so useful, why do you let people buy their way out of it (whether with Gems or with Plus)? If binging is so bad, why do you encourage it with the Leagues?
@HelpfulDuo, I am always trying to believe the best of people, but the reasons advanced by Duolingo about practice, binging, Health buybacks/shields, and Leagues are mutually contradictory.
Thanks. My sister has no choice but to use iOS Duolingo and she dislikes it because of Health. She likes French though just hss no browser/computer access
I know Hans but her browser is literally broken. My old phone. It's why she has it. I let her on my phone sometimes but not often.
It's perfectly possible to use the web version in Safari on an iOS device.
I know Hans but her browser is literally broken. My old phone. It's why she has it.
Try to install the Firefox browser
Watch out, they will add it to the web version so there's no other choice...
I really don't understand why you're trying to fix something that's not broken. Keep leaderboard optional and the health feature limited to the test-outs for all the platforms. =/
Yeah, we all knew that, it's just if Duolingo turns its head or not, in this case, most certainly not lol
Since you are responding, I would love for you to see this and respond as well.
In terms of the health issue.
It is the SINGLE worst part of the service. It is terrible. It is the reason I stopped using the service entirely for several months in the fall/winter after starting last July. It was frustrating and it did nothing but impede my learning. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to learn, and being told that you cannot any more. Part of the learning experience is making mistakes.
In my experience, the health existed for one reason, to force you to watch ads. You could pay gems to refill your health, but to refill, I needed to get NINE (9) crowns worth of rewards just to get 5 additional health, or I needed to practice material that I actually didn't need practice with 5 times just to refill my health. Or watch ads....... The other option for me was wait 5 hours for a single health to come back.
When I started learning on Duolingo, I strictly used the app. I did not know there was a website, and I did not have any hints or tips. I was starting here to get a base for the classes I signed up for in person. I made countless errors because there was no explanation for me on why I was learning "der Apfel" was suddenly changing to "den Apfel". I had just learned (And took all the previous modules to gold) that it was something different, with no explanation why, and then I was getting things wrong. I know tips are being added to the iOS app now, but not everyone knows about them.
Then there is the issue that in your native language you can accidentally type "car" instead of "cat". Or in non-English languages other words that have similar appearance and layout on the keyboard. You get this wrong, you lose a heart. Yes it is a mistake, but that is a very easy one to do. There are issues with Autocorrect on phones, and people also have fat fingers. Mistakes in native languages happen. It doesn't mean you are not learning.
And then there is the issue with flexible word orders, synonyms that are not included in the database and multiple other things that can cause errors. The contributors are great, and I thank them for everything they do. However, everyone is human and things slip by. I have had several instances where I have had to submit that my answer was correct, and receive the email saying that my response was added to the database. So at the end of the day, I was counted for a mistake, but I was correct.
I use Duolingo more for trying out what I can do with word orders. I like to switch things around to see what works, what doesn't work and then investigate why the wrong answers were wrong. I don't get a simple thing right and ask myself "what did I do right?". Instead, the red comes up, I look at it, and ask "What is wrong with this?" then I go and investigate it if there is no typo or if it isn't just flat out wrong. Often I learn A LOT more by being wrong than simply memorizing what something is and moving on. It makes me look at why the word order I put in doesn't work while I am experimenting. I can also think of at least four different prepositions in German to say "going to xxxx" in German. "ich gehe zu Tim" - "I am going to Tim's place" "ich gehe ins Kino" - "I am going to the movie theater" "ich gehe nach Kanada" - "I am going to Kanada" and "ich gehe aufs Land" - "I am going to the countryside". If a learner doesn't make mistakes with these, then they are brilliant. This is a natural area where one needs to make mistakes to see what they mean, and then once you think you understand, there are exceptions as to why a certain destination takes a different preposition.
My wife is also on the health plan. She has the exact same complaints as I do. She does exactly 3 lessons a day, because she doesn't want to deal with the health. She hates it. Yes she gets almost everything correct, but she is going unbelievably slow (maybe she will complete a full tree in 15 years or so) because the health makes her just want to do what is required for her streak.
While I no longer worry about health because I have plus status (I don't plan on having it forever, I just want to pay a fair amount for the usage of a product) it is the single worst part about the service.
Do you guys just ignore user feedback altogether? Most users don't like Health.
Duo is completely deaf and blind to user's complaints about forcing in unpopular changes. Duo is a huge disappointment to me and everyone here, and it disgusts me.
Android and iOS are going to get more similar: Leaderboards and Health will start rolling out to new users on the mobile platforms that did not previously have them
If you do this, I will quit Duolingo. You appeared to have started removing it from iOS. Please reconsider this decision. Nobody likes Health and you know it.
It really is remarkable, I can't think of another product that has tried so hard to alienate its users.
We'll miss it too... Unfortunately, it was a rather small feature with relatively high "cost" to maintain. My understanding is that clubs require a lot of moderation and support, and the usage stats does not justify the cost of keeping them available to a small number of users. By sharing what you loved about it (such as making some friends), we can take the better aspects of it and perhaps bring it back in a revised form. Sorry, Nick.Blank!
No, you didn't do the moderation. The moderation was fine by volunteer admins. Doesn't cost you a cent. We don't need your daily animation. The questions are repetitive and the same in every language. So just drop that. You dropped the points for contributions in the clubs anyhow. So don't give us the cost thing, we are not believing it. Support? Where did you support the clubs? You took away the descriptions, the points and all the linguistics is done by volunteers, again. Why don't you stop the useless updates instead? All they do is ram leaderboards down people's throat. They serve zero purpose, save spending on that. We don't need the same sentenced at a start of a lesson either. Dump that and we all save money and time
Anita, moderators are volunteers, but we very often have to escalate problems to the paid staff. There were many issues the paid staff had to deal with in clubs. Your club may be well behaved, but not all of them are. So they were indeed costly.
I'm not paid staff. I didn't use clubs or leagues and have no vested interest in either.
Thank you for sharing this with us, HelpfulDuo! I have been looking for the reasons why Clubs are being deleted. It literally took me DAYS just to find this answer, just because it is (or rather, was) so far down the page, and I don't have unlimited time to read the forums.
Aren't clubs moderated by their admins, though? I know there are cases where an Admin deserts their club, but hopefully they are in the minority.
I know that another problem with clubs is the high number of curious new members who join and then quickly desert them, taking up valuable space. It does take effort even on the part of volunteer admins to track and clean these members out, but there are those of us who do. Are these "dead" members taking up server space? Is that what makes Clubs expensive? I really don't understand where the "cost" is to you in Clubs. Knowing might help us understand your decision to discontinue them.
This post makes me hopeful that maybe the reason you are telling us to follow our friends is that you are hoping to build a Leaderboard system in the future where we can join our existing friends on the same board, or maybe even take a different approach to bringing Clubs back at some future point. Or, that maybe the Leaderboards will be restructured in such a way that they will begin to resemble the old clubs again. It took me a week of being angry about losing clubs to see that you, @HelpfulDuo, are really trying to be helpful here, but people aren't listening to certain parts of what you're saying because (a) they are too angry, and you as a representative of Duolingo are catching the brunt of that in the form of downvotes, or (b) they literally haven't made it this far down the page. Just look at how few responses there are to this comment, as compared to the top of this page, which sees so much more traffic. It must feel like slamming your head into a wall of downvotes. I hope that you're even able to see this response, given that a week has passed since your original comment!
A few suggestions: Why not charge a monthly fee of X lingots to be in a club? Those who don't pay could be auto-programmed to be removed from the club. Those of us who enjoy the clubs would manage to find a way to 'pay' for our (free) subscriptions every month. Also, perhaps you might need to have a set number of existing members to start a new club? Just a few thoughts with an eye towards the future... :-)
WHAT?! MONEY?!!? TO BE IN A CLUB?!!? THAT IS SO *** RIDICULOUS well at least it's better than no club at all
Not money to be in a club. Lingots. Which we get for free anyway. There is a big difference.
Exactly! It's not as if we have much else to do with our lingots. Why not put them to good use? :-)
sometimes... we cant control things... its fate. I guess we shall see what we shall see.
some things just have to happen. it's fate. we shall see what we shall see.
do you remember my comment from your previous "Introduction to Duolingo's redesign" thread and my fears that not everyone (adults) may like this UI and nothing will maybe work afterwards?: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29997264$comment_id=30000236
Quote: we are getting close to the end of the month and have a ton of updates that we want to share with you
The new web design update looks to be broken and freezes my firefox.exe CPU / high 50-60% load on Firefox V52.9.0esr (32-bit)!
I answered here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31260127$comment_id=31852670
Quote: The top menu bar on web will get updated and look a little different, inspired by the app look
Won't this break the quick "language course switcher" code hidden behind the flag left besides our avatar where you can jump from courses with a different base/source language back and forth?
The previous UI web design was perfect as it was and gave us some time to "rest" from the stuff which is going on on the mobile apps.
What is wrong with the current web top menu bar?
It nicely fits my 1280x800 14.1" Laptop screen!
Now you bring that "mobile app" look to the web and tweak it even more?
Can we at least have the choice, as many users and I had requested before?
Could we please have an old "full desktop site" design not to waste any space on external monitors?
If your frontend UI design team is searching for new more useful tasks:
How about using the longer (full) skill names on the web? There is enough space on a full desktop screen! At least for a mouse hover over, please?
Most (very) short skill names do not tell too much. I have to rely on Duome.eu to know what they mean.
adding filters (grammar, vocabulary, CEFR A1, A2, verb tenses) and explicity mark skills what category they fall into, e.g sort skills by "Verb:" prefix and full name, add those missing "Verb:" prefixes for those grammar skills in the frozen EN->PT course (updated June 2018, 91 skills) which dropped all prefixes on a few skills
tagging support for multiple skills (hot list, currently working on, etc.) to avoid scrolling in the tree "home" page; this is especially very important in longer French and Spanish CEFR trees with 156-159 skills!
adding full support for your "Home" page (with the tree) like the userscript "Duolingo course progress" had it once for strength bar filters
There are so many useful old Python scripts which are dead since 2017, why can't your html programmer team not rewrite them for Scala and fully incorporate them into your frontend code?
Maybe it's time to split up:
- only made and moderated by paid staff
- all users remain alpha and beta testers
An open source web version
- only made and moderated by unpaid volunteers (web developers, course contributors and moderators)
- voluntary alpha and beta testers
- possibility to donate
Maybe it's time to make an open app... it's a friggin' database of sentences already compiled by volunteers for free, with a forum attached.
The new web design update looks to be broken and freezes my firefox.exe CPU / high 50-60% load on Firefox V52.9.0esr (32-bit)!
We are monitoring for other reports of this issue—however, at this time not yet seen a high volume of reports indicating this is related to our redesign. We recommend using the latest version of the browser of your choice for an optimal learning experience on the Duolingo site. Also, make sure you check browser plugins and extensions for performance degradation and potential breaking interactions with Duolingo.
Won't this break the quick "language course switcher" code hidden behind the flag left besides our avatar where you can jump from courses with a different base/source language back and forth?
No, it should not break. We love it too!
What is wrong with the current web top menu bar?
We are trying to make Duolingo more consistent, which will allow for quicker and more consistent feature iterations and updates. It will also allow the website to smoothly adapt to various screen sizes. It should not impact your experience too much, we hope!
As for the choice of switching back and forth, it is not my decision, but I can tell you that the re-design does not seem to have affected our metrics negatively. But we do understand that people think a toggle would be nice to have available while getting used to a new look and feel. Unfortunately, I don't think it is happening with this change.
I don't believe our UI design team is currently looking for new and more useful tasks, but we do however have several team members reading suggestions coming in via the survey, so be sure to include your ideas there as well. Thank you :)
Just don't be a *** and remove clubs and add health to EVERY device for good
If you think Duo looks bad you should see Memrise. After seeing that Duo looks beautiful.
By Duo I mean the bird. The old logo was perfect, the current one is just a blob with legs.
I liked the design before the update. I don't like how cartoony and goofy Duo looks now as much as I liked the other one
@HelpfulDuo dont be sad. just maybe focus more on the users consernes? I honestly kinda like the new look! :)
Why are you guilt tripping me? YEESH duolingo, get your act together and stop being so manipulative.
I feel bad for HelpfulDuo, honestly. They tried really hard to make it more fun, this frowny-face means so much to me. :(
It's a trick. They want you to feel bad for (rightfully) criticizing a company that doesn't care about its users. Don't fall for it.
Eh, i'm sure whoever designed and approved the new owl thought it looked good. They were obviously hoping we'd find it appealing, and there's no need to read anything else into that.
Personally i'm not entirely sold on the move towards minimalism that seems to have taken hold of the design community lately, but i don't think the current owl looks bad.
If you are going to update us on Finnish - could you give some status on Arabic and Yiddish - it seems like you only want to communicate positive things and leave us in the dark on difficulties. This is not recommended because our imagination is probably worse than what you would report and the obscurity just creates irritation in the users.
Sure! We did not include this because it is not technically an update, but happy to share the status you are asking about. We're aiming to release the Arabic for English speakers this year and are actively looking for Yiddish experts to revitalize the team.
As a general update on the status of courses, our goal is to make sure that all language teams are actively improving their courses and completing those that haven't been released yet. Over the last 3 months we've doubled the number of active teams in the Incubator and believe we will finish this month with a record low for inactive teams. We are constantly looking for new language experts to help us build courses and moderate forums—the more volunteers we get the faster stalled courses can start to progress again. So we'd love to hear any recommendations if you know of someone who would like to help.
There is a weekly report that is published in the forum on incubator status. It seems to me a reasonable request to have a Duolingo representative monitor that post and discussion and occasionally provide an update on courses that have stalled for a month or two. I do not think this would take a huge effort and would help with Duolingo transparency and user frustration. In the case of Arabic there has been no progress for 23 weeks and in the case of Yiddish for 30 weeks. Expectations are created among your users when a course starts in the incubator and then frustration builds as they stall with no communication from Duolingo. The conclusion is that Duolingo does not care or is not even aware of what is happening with these new courses. I do not think the hour a week it might take to keep on top of this and communicate would be a large expense and would have a significant benefit in the eyes of your customers. Also if you need assistance with some courses I think the Incubator post would be a good place to ask because people who read them are people who are interested in the new classes and can then help solicit volunteers to work on the courses if that is the issue. If the issues are different - alphabetic or programming then simply explain. I think there will be understanding and acceptance if you can be specific as to the nature of the delay.
Semi-related to this: how about opening up forums for coming courses to allow people to collect discussions in one place?
It would also be nice with a tech forum for Duome stuff, userscripts and things like that which are not really troubleshooting and doesn't belong in any specific language.
I really think they've completely given up on Yiddish. It's been in the incubator for sooooo long.
There's a big difference between taking their time and not making any progress.
I don't care about leaderboards or health systems as long as I am not forced to use them. What if I just want to use Duolingo to learn on my own like I have so far? Or will these updates push me into learning in a way Duolingo says is best?
Attention Helpful Duo: Please read all the comments below including mine. The clubs meant a lot to all of us. It gave us an authentic reason for using our best Spanish in our conversations. When members would study hard, we celebrated the achievements using our Spanish to praise. Appropriate emojis added to the accolades. Taking the club out from under us without a reasonable alternative is very hurtful. Can't you do something better now that you can see the benefits our members depended on?
After reading all the comments below I observed many students of the various languages are questioning the value of the health approach. I have both the health (iphone) and without health (kindle). Unless one has a huge reserve of gems many seem to run out of health after 2-3 lessons. Is this duos goal to have students stop after 3 lessons? Sometimes I only do one lesson and other times I want to gain over 100points studying, reviewing and learning new material. Please elaborate on you goals regarding the health. Don't ignore me please. Thank you, sjyoshida
Aargh! These are NOT improvements! They are useless! They are annoying and have no practical purpose, in particular Health! Why do you write this in a positive manner!
Why do you write this in a positive manner!
Duolingo likes making themselves feel good while ignoring the negative feedback of us users who object to changes that we don't like or ruin the learning experience.
Hi Helpful Duo, I know that the leaderboards are starting to take the place of clubs, are the older accounts going to get replaced soon to as well?
The clubs have really helped me as far as getting help from people on my grammar and translations, if there is any way you could keep them that would be great, but if not I will miss them but I will be interested in what new you guys have to offer. :)
Hey Andres, I agree with you. The ability to chat on a club page with members has improved my learning a lot. You are a great member of our club!
Thank you, I have really enjoyed being in your club! It’s the best club I have ever been in!
Yes, older accounts will get the Clubs automatically replaced after the opt-in period (likely sometime next month -- you should be notified in the app as well before it happens!)
@HelpfulDuo Once clubs have been removed, will we in fact be able to contact our friends, and even make new friends, to communicate in the languages we are learning? I have long felt that friends and followers need to be able to message one another directly in some way - because currently we have no way to communicate with many of our friends and followers, apart from those who are in our clubs. So, are you truly offering something better, or merely taking away what little we still have? Please respond, not with a hint of a possibility, but an actual hope for a real improvement. I need to know, to in any way feel good about this change. Thank you.
I just got notified that clubs will end on May 19th, thank you for your reply.
Hooray for Leaderboards and Health! The feature literally no one asked for and almost everyone hates!
tHeN wHy ArE yOu ThAnKiNg ThEm?!??!?!?!?!?!?11!?!?1
I'm being sarcastic don't hurt me please
I feel like when you put capitals in random places it easily indicates you're being sarcastic, not-understanding buddy xP (I take my nicknames seriously lol)
Pretty much. I've seen so many people TaLk LiKe ThIs to indicate sarcasm that I started to do it too XD
I think it's great that you want to make the iOS and the Android apps more similar; it has always seemed bizarre that the features were different between them. But please don't do this by taking the mistakes of one platform (Health) and moving them to the others, thus making the others worse. As an android user I'm already disincentivized from using the app to practice since the new design was implemented making everything so ugly and childish, but if health is added I'll likely quit using the app completely.
I am shellshocked Why on earth do you want to kill the clubs? We have a wonderful Italian club with a fabulous volunteer instructor. We have s wonderful, very international Spanish club. Several native speakers are there to help. Most of us learn far more in the monolingual club than from endless repetitive translations. We also have a nice Portuguese group. So why on earth do you want to kill this. Following does not include interaction, it is utterly pointless.
Leader boards are replacing clubs? How will be straight conversation with friends? We have much fun in our clubs and we will miss all the jokes, story-telling and other funny things.
Yes, that's the main reason to be in a club. To be able to practice writing in the language that we learn. Perhaps, they will find a new "avenue" where we can practice the writing skill.
"Leaderboards are in the process of replacing Clubs"
Woah, woah, woah, hold up. Why DO leaderboards need to replace clubs, exactly? I'm pretty sure the clubs were doing JUST FINE. In clubs, we could at least stay connected to a small amount of people and help each other, whereas with leaderboards, we literally just compare our scores! Not exactly helping!
"But you could go on discussions and-" Bro if you think I'm going to look through 500+ messages...
Hah, I just noticed there is a link to a feedback form. I wonder if they will be read, or go into the circular file. Submitted mine. Health system being added to android has no effect on me, but I am will go to bat for the Android users to put my two cents in against it for them. I would never wish pain on anyone else.
What is the link to the feedback form? Edit: here it is: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeBY_RqEwl2x9heBSKL0jZSnNNiW4WzNSM33ztgMJA7Y9OahQ/viewform?usp=sf_link
Several staff members from various teams are reading those results, they are definitely getting attention. Thank you for submitting!
I can't say that health looks like a feature that I'll enjoy or find useful. I often try things out to check if a word can also have a different meaning, in other words, I learn by trial and error and making mistakes. The nice thing about duolingo is that it is learning by doing without requiring immediate perfection. Health will change that. It will also make people even more annoyed about different versions of the same sentence not being accepted.
I like how Duo's gonna pretend hindering progress is out of concern for the users rather than pushing their Plus membership, which has a health shield. Uninstalling on mobile, good luck with your ad revenue loss DL
I haven't been on Duolingo in a long time, so please don't attack me if I get any information wrong:
Why do we need the health system, exactly? I know it's encouraging people not to get answers wrong, but it's hurting people that way. Imagine going to school where if you get five answers wrong, you automatically fail a class and have to retake it a day later, all from the beginning. It's not really teaching people anything, because (I know this sounds cliché) making mistakes is a part of learning, but that means people should LEARN from their mistakes. By starting from the beginning of a lesson, getting everything wrong and restarting the entire thing, it kind of pressures people into getting the right answer ALL THE TIME. They might not take much information in and just answer for the sake of answering.
Then there's the streak. Yes, learning a language is important, but it's not fair that when we lose a streak we have to pay a bunch of money just to repair it. Remember the point I made about people just answering for the sake of answering? That kind of applies to the streaks, since some people have to stress about doing Duolingo every day. Again, they might rush and not take in as much information, making the language learning process possibly longer than usual.
I'm not trying to say to take away these things, exactly, but at least improve them so people don't have to stress over language learning as much. Again, I haven't been on Duolingo for a long time, and these are just my thoughts, so please don't attack me on this.
Mistakes are definitely a part of learning, it doesn't sound cliché at all.
I have already ditched the app cause health, since it is now moving to android that means one day it may infect the web.... Once it does I am out and ditching duo completely for my other sources.
The other updates are great. Not a big fan of leaderboards since I'm not into competitive learning, but others are, so meh. I don't get why get rid of the clubs though, since that is like the only real social feature (minus forums).
It's been scientifically proven that positive reinforcement is the best way to learn. Penalizing for mistakes is the LEAST effective way to learn. Isn't that what you want us to do, Duolingo?
As a Plus subscriber you can enable the "Health" shield
The problem for Android users is that there's a glitch that the just won't fix online. The green/red answer bar now appears right over the text box so you can't check your answers. I've reported it everywhere but they just won't fix it.
Have you already tried to use the desktop mode of your browser?
Explanation for the Firefox app for Android
Anyone else annoyed that the green/red answer bar now covers the text box (at least on my Android and my Kindle)? Makes it impossible to check against your answers, which is, you know, how you learn. I've reported it on these boards, Facebook and their "bug" link, but not fixed and no response. I have a 200-day French streak and don't want to start from scratch but am now seriously looking into other products.
Yes!!! I used to be able to slide it out of the way so I could see my answer; that is no longer possible.
I've not long joined one of the Duolingo Clubs and I'm finding it a wonderful opportunity to practice my Italian. The people are very friendly and supportive and I'm encouraged through the contact I have with them to do some "study" on my own so I can expand my vocabulary.
So I'm dismayed to see that you're going to close our fabulous CLUBS and replace it with LEADERBOARDS. I'm sorry to say that it seems like a case of "fixing" something that isn't broken.
Saluti da un triste utente dell'app Duolingo
"No can do," says HelpfulDuo cheerfully, "Clubs are *** Leaderboards are bett"
Duolingo: Free language learning and education! :D
Also Duolingo: Let's penalize a person for making a mistake even though mistakes are a part of learning and have them repair their streak at the cost of (insert price here)!
I know Duolingo Plus exists, just wanted to point this out :/
Yes, exactly. I wouldn't mind this if Duolingo itself were called Duolingo Lite and you had to pay for REAL Duolingo but like... for something that the whole point of is that it's free it's upsetting
Duolingo and Duolingo Plus are different products. There are two goals of Plus: to gather money from supportive users and to provide enhanced experience of Duolingo. To gather money, one can just ask it, but to provide enhanced experience, one has to offer something to users that can pay for it. Reason for paying can be anything.
Please add an ability to increase font size to the apps! Or add app features that make them respect system font sizes (while being able to scroll down so all word bank options are available.)
People with vision issues want to use Duolingo, too.
makes salute Here, Sir/Ma'am/insert honorific non-binary term here! Drawn and ready!
What a big backward step in comparison clubs to leaderboards. With leaderboards you have no more possibility to communicate and learn with others together. In a league you always are with other people (strangers) in every weak. You can only see the XP from people which are unknown. What is the advantage to the clubs? I can't see one. In a club you can also see how many points the other clubmembers get and you can speak about some difficulties in relation to learn a Language and you can help each other.
The clubs are great. You practice the language with people from all over the world. You make new friends. It really motivates me to practice every day. I can't imagine Duo without clubs, boring I would say :(
True, @Maaike624748. I have been on Duo for almost 3 years now and made many friends- including with you.
That’s right, @sunkira. Giving the chat option to the Club users was the smartes move ever! That’s what has been keeping many of us interested in this App for so long. And now they wanna take this away? When you take away a candy from a child, the child will cry, get tired, stop crying, forget about the candy and be happy again. With adults it doesn’t work this way. You take away the Clubs and the chat from us will result in MANY of us stop using this App and go somewhere else.
I have no doubt that there is solid research showing that people that rush through learning material too quickly will often forget what they have just learned. However, I often see this app being marketed as a learning tool with game-like qualities, and the phrase fun is often used in describing the experience of using the app.
If the point of the app is to draw people in, and keep them engaged, then provided a rigid learning experience is likely going to alienate many users, including myself. The reason the feedback on the health feature is so poor is simple: people don't like it. You are taking something people love, (that they are doing completely voluntarily mind you), and adding unnecessary gating to it in the name of an efficiency of learning ideology.
Focus on making fun changes. This is not class. And people will stop coming back when they feel like it is. Reinforcing concepts is pointless when people just give up. Maybe using research on teaching metrics isn't the best method moving forward, for keeping people engaged with something they are doing totally of their own volition.
"What would make them great?" First off, what would make them good? Health bar does not benefit anyone and i believe clubs was enjoyed more than leader board. I rejoined recently and this leader board stuff does not seem to be that worth it. I do like the challenge but i also liked how Duo was a couple years ago when i played it. Just my perspective, maybe look into more than just your dev's perspective on duo lingo.
I know I definitely loved the clubs and I agree, Duolingo should at least listen to their customers than just adding unnecessary stuff and replacing helpful things for no reason
Thumbs up for CEFR and new/enhanced languages. Thumbs sideways for addition of Leaderboard ("meh") Thumbs down for removal of Clubs (but if that was costing something to run, then maybe that would fit in Plus better than Health. And Thumbs WAY WAY down for Health. There isn't even a place in the survey to tell you that it's not that I don't want health to come to Android, it's that IT IS TERRIBLE even on iOS. Punishing mistakes to "slow down" learning does not allow for: challenging new topics, trying alternate vocabulary in the lessons, or even just Tired Brain, Making Extra Typos/Mistakes. (And don't even get me started on the tiny fonts and the mistakes that eyestrain contributes to)
Outrage. Loss for words. And now finally able to express the devastation I will feel with this update.
I have both android and iOS apps (iPad and android phone).... I specifically only use my android app because I found the health system so frustrating on the iOS. Just when I start to get the hang of a new lesson I have to wait until the next day to continue. It is completely detrimental to the way I learn.
Everyone learns differently and on the whole I find Duolingo suits my learning style. However one thing most people can agree on is that making mistakes helps learning. We all do it and then learn how to correct ourselves.
Not only this but a small typo or an answer unfairly marked incorrectly is not a good enough reason to be told you cannot continue.
Can you imagine a school in which if a child gets an answer wrong they are removed from class? This doesn't happen because it is not appropriate for a learning environment.
I am committed to learning, and whilst I took a short break whilst I transitioned into a new job I'm back on track and have a goal to be perfectly fluent within 4 years. If they add health to android it will slow down the learning I do on my commute to and from work every morning and evening. I won't even be able to do the evening practice as I probably wont have regained my health yet.
Additionally I am appalled that Duo is going to desecrated the learning community we have through clubs. This is a key source of encouragement and information from those who have more knowledge teaching and guiding those who are new to a language. We also share key information about visiting our chosen countries and even job postings to move and really immerse in language. To get rid of the club environment will be the greatest tragedy. I am lucky to have found an active club. Following other members will allow no contact with them. Competition through leaderboards means nothing. At best all it has ever meant for me is that I will congratulate the friend in my club for their achievement that week.
CEFR is a sensible and helpful addition to the learning experience. If only all of the decisions were so sensible.
I wish Duo would listen and understand. Truly devastating news. I hope a new competitor app is created by someone who has heard our complaints.
"Can you imagine a school in which if a child gets an answer wrong they are removed from class? " My goodness, I love this comment. Are you British or just a really well-spoken respectable adult person? You sound like a teacher or something-- you really do seem lovely :)
Thanks @xMira_ ! Yes, I am British... but not a teacher. Thank you for the compliment! I can only hope Duolingo will hear us. Encouragement works better than punishment.
"The top menu bar on web will get updated and look a little different, inspired by the app look"
Does this mean that the link error in the help on the discussion page will also be corrected?
Others had already reported this bug last year, I have now reported it twice this year, even with a line of code.
Why is Duo bringing these new changes to the website when they can very much see that nobody likes these? I wonder what would happen if Duo was a democracy...
They would continue to pretend that everyone loves the changes notwithstanding the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
When are clubs going to be removed? Can we get a warning before it happens so we can move our communities to other platforms?
I really hope you have plans for further comnunity/communication features. Engaging with other users and chatting, doing lessons together, etc, is much more motivating for learning rather than just comparing xp scores with each other.
@ChiraChan - we are working on the basis that they may disappear at the end of April. i.e. next week given Duolingo's comment:
Attention! Leaderboards are in the process of replacing Clubs, so make sure you follow your club-friends this month!;
Updates without Clubs … no thanks!!! The interesting thing about learning with Duolingo are the Clubs where you can talk in the language with like-minded Friends.
If we follow someone first we cannot actually interact with them and knowing their XP is not interacting. The only way to interact with language learning people was clubs and now they are removing that too. Esto no me gusta:(
I hated "Health" on my ios and i'm so happy to have gotten rid of it on my New Android. Please don't expand the "Health" to Android!!
On your Android, when you use the web version, can you move the green or red answer banner? On mine (doing French) it appears right over the text box and you can't move it to check your answer, started about a week ago. I've reported it everywhere, but no response. I don't even know if it's a glitch or if they did it on purpose (even though it makes it much harder to learn, Duolingo doesn't seem to care much about that).
I'm not sure. I only use it for stories, because they dont seem to be available in the app. Otherwise I just use the app.
If i had an Apple I would definitely NOT use the app because of the Health system.
Can everyone sharing their hatred of the changes in the comments fill in the feedback from Duo asked users to use as well? It is a long shot but still worth trying out
Type out reasoned argument on here, then copy and paste the relevant parts into the form. Hopefully that way you might be heard. It is worth a try.
You're absolutely right, but i hate how they loaded the questions. "What would make [intentionally unpleasant feature intended to discourage use of the free version] great?"
And i don't understand why they're ignoring us here, or the numerous other threads where people are criticizing the health system and removal of clubs. Doesn't inspire confidence that we're going to be listened to.
Yeah, "intentionally unpleasant feature intended to discourage use of the free version" is admittedly a very loaded question.
That's not a question, it's an observation. (Was referring specifically to health.)
I'm saying the question "what would make this feature great" presupposes that your least favourite update isn't just a bad idea in general.
The moment clubs are switched off I will uninstall the app. It was the last reason why I still had it.
I first downloaded the Mobile Version of Duolingo probably close to 3 years ago but I would have stopped using the App long time ago if it wasn’t for the CHAT option that was introduced by Duo- it added life, and fun and a sense of real accomplishment upon every successful exchange of thoughts with the club- members. Ever since I opened my Club and I am an active member of 3 more. We all became friends and we interact using the respective language that we study together. Having our Duo Clubs is like having our own classroom with our favourite classmates and teachers ( the native speakers among us in each group ). We share a passion together - for the language we study. You take the Clubs away from us = you loose us as users, sooner or later. And if you reconsider and keep the Clubs as a option for those who don’t want to join the Leaderboards/ Leagues, then we would probably never leave and will keep advertising Your App to our circle of friends as the best App ever. So far, I would have rated Duolingo with 10/10. If you cancel the Clubs and the chat option- I would rate you with 2 for failing to listen to Your most passionate users.
Could you please clarify this:
•Bonus XP for combos is back on Android. It is planned to roll out to iOS next, and then to web as well.
P.S. Thank you for giving us updates ahead of time. That really is nice and it gives us a heads-up as to what we can expect to change.
What I've seen using Android is if I get all questions correct in a lesson I will get an extra 5xp. If I get one wrong I might get an extra 4xp. I assume there is an algorithm for either how many you get wrong or how many you get correct in a row to determine the amount of bonus xp you'd get.
Hi, thanks for all the work. I think it is really a pity Clubs are disappearing. That was a good way to encourage collaboration instead of competition. :-(
Can someone help me? I can't find a single post supportive of these changes. Is there one?
(and then, why are you making them?)
Health sounds appalling. When it comes to my account I will delete my app. If it ever comes to the website I will have to stop learning with Duolingo altogether. This is my survey response as to why I would dislike the health feature.
I will be punished for making mistakes. I will no longer feel free to try to answer in new, but possibly wrong answers. I will feel compelled to only answer in ways which I already know are accepted. Because of this fear of failure I will not be able to expand my language knowledge. Additionally I will worry about answers that I know are correct but not yet accepted. I will not want to put them in and then report them, because I know I will loose my health. This will in turn make the service worse. The courses get better when people can help expand the accepted sentences. And lastly there are simple typos. I have gotten many questions wrong because of typos. I don't want to look at my response for an extended period of time just to make sure everything is spelled without a typo. This would get exhausting very quickly.
Isn't it strange that they're making a poll ? I thought that Luis van Ahn didn't want to listen to the users anymore ... (I also submitted my answers of course nevertheless )
Thanks for being transparent with us in regards to these changes! I remember when everyone used to be furious in terms of the lack of communication between Duolingo HQ and the userbase. Great to see this has finally changed!
Now, I am a relatively new user to Duolingo, but I thought I should share my opinion on these changes, while also offering a few suggestions.
To begin with, I actually quite like the new design. Of course, this is personal preference, and as I said, I’m sort of new to Duolingo so I didn’t really get to know the old one. For suggestions, I’ve seen a lot of people asking for a dark mode, and I think that would be a really great feature to implement. I also have seen other people’s complaints about trophies and adding back the scarves would be awesome. I personally think the scarves would look really cute on the new trophies.
Secondly, health. I have Duolingo online and on my phone, so I’ve been able to get both experiences. I personally find health very annoying, but I do like the feature of gaining your health back through quizzes that allow you to practice more. My suggestion for this is to not have health, but rather a system where Duolingo sees the things you have trouble with and gives you occasional practice quizzes to help you become stronger with that skill. I know there are the checkpoints and Duolingo has progress quizzes for Plus users, and they may already have this practice quiz for just the skill for Plus users (I don’t know, I’m not a Plus user), but I think the practice quizzes would be a better alternative to the Health system. Learning languages is hard, so you should be supported rather than being penalized and/or having to spend extra money/lingots.
Last is just a note. I really love the Stories feature available online, (along with a couple other online features) and I think it would be awesome if Duolingo could add it to the mobile app. Reading little stories or listening to podcasts or other stuff like that is a great way to learn a language, so it make it accessible for the users on the go!
I think what Duolingo is doing is great. Being multilingual is a really awesome skill to have, and making learning free is even better, but there is always room for improvement. If you guys have any comments or other suggestions, feel free to leave them down below!
Health (and thus Duolingo experience overall) was one of the reasons I was happy to switch from iPhone back to Android. A big disappointment to see it didn't just die away slowly, but is instead spreading to other platforms now.
How about having both optional? Duolingo should OFFER both, leaderboards/clubs and Health as optional. That's the best way to test if users like it or not. You (Duolingo) will know exactly how many people opted to use Leaderboards and how many chose to remain in Clubs. Same goes with Health. Moreover, there should be a period in which users can switch back to clubs or turn off Health.
I would personally love to test both (never used Health, although on iOS), but I would like the option to go back to Clubs or turn off Health after I tested it.
WOW! That darklingo looks great! Is it just for the mobile device, or can I also get it on my computer? Also, before I install it, do you mind posting a picture of what the lessons look like? One more question... can you uninstall it? or is it permanent?
darklingo++ is only for using with a web browser. I reduced the width of my Chrome browser to make it look like an application. You can probably do that right now with your browser without changing anything.
To make the page dark, I used darklingo++
You can also google:
I read about Darklingo++ today here Ready to take your language training to the next level? Meet «Duolingo Advanced Learning
— The userscript is supported by «Darklingo++» Dark Theme by Justin Rowe.
Could the color for new vocabulary and words be changed from the current like light orange-yellow to some other contrasting color? It is difficult to see it sometimes especially if there is blue-light blocker on the screen.
I agree with you.
With the usage of f.lux or any other blue light filter and dimmer software
- the red text on red background (errors, review panel) and
- green text on green background (alternative solution, missing accents, review panel)
as well as new words are not the very great ideas.
Have you tried the newer "Dark schemes"?
I know you don't listen, Helpful Duo (is the community manager still active?), but still:
The thread about Adjusting XP for testing out has shown that there are two groups of people: one group likes the leaderbords, the other people like to compete against themselves, not against others, and who feel punished due to the "loss" of XPs.
Why not let us choose: either opt for the leaderbord (and then get no XP for testing out) or opt out of the leaderbord (and then get full XP for testing out)?
To say something good: I like that courses are aligned to CEFR and that course contributors get more rights (I hope it doesn't mean that they have to work even more than now).
Actually this thread shows that Helpful Duo is indeed listening to the forum, and that you apparently are not. But hey, it's the internet. What's a fact here and there?
There are various opt-on/choice "solutions" being suggested in the forum. What they have in common is a lack of insight to that any such solution means twice the amount of code to maintain, and thus a corresponding decrease in development. Just get rid of levels and XP altogether and keep crowns as the progress indicator.
True, I didn't read the more than 270 comments of this thread, but wrote based on my experience of the past 1178 days with Duo (I've followed the developments from the beginning), and especially with the experience of the last year.
We both are here long enough to know that Duo doesn't listen and that Duo has put a lot of time into developments which have made the program worse, not better (they could have saved time by not developing leaderboards).
And no, I won't get further into detail. I'm just tired and short of giving up on Duo.
I haven't seen the leaderboards yet (apart from the friend leaderboard on the web that has always been there) so I don't have any opinion there, more than that I don't really see the point of lumping together random people who don't know each other and don't learn the same language, without interaction possibilities.
Come to think of it, will the friend leaderboard remain?
In general, though, I don't buy the always-becoming-worse-litany. Crowns was definitely an improvement (now just take it all the way and remove the old XPs). I see new courses appearing, sound being added to courses that didn't have it, old courses being improved, etc. There's no sane way to see that as not being improvements.
I didn't and don't say that everything became worse (see my first comment).
Really? Duo is listening? Horray! The health system is no more! Clubs are here to stay! Forums are being implemented to the app! Oh, wait none of that is true because Duolingo doesn't listen.
Yes, I am. But I'm still upset that they're not in the app. A lot of people don't know about the forums because they've never used the site.
APP they said APP, not "phone" they didn't say "forums are being implemented on the PHONE version," they said "forums are being implemented on the APP version." My goodness.
Are notifications on the website also part of the April update? My browser asked about allowing notifications for duolingo.com a few days ago for the first time.
On that subject, it seems that notifications in French use "tu", which, at least for me, feels like we're treated like little children and being spoken to in baby talk (I'm way closer to 40 than 5). "tu" is also used by some websites and ads in French when business people try to understand teenagers by addressing them as if they were their close friends... and completely fail. I don't think you want to convey that.
Since Duolingo is used by many people of all ages, I think it would be better to switch to "vous". I don't use Duolingo's UI in French, but if "tu" is used anywhere else on the website or the app to talk to the user, I would make the same comment.
I've disabled notifications, which sort of solves the problem for me, but I wanted to share so that the staff has a chance to know how it can be perceived.
Wer ist auf diese hirnrissige Idee gekommen die Clubs zu eliminieren??? Die lebhafte Konversation in den Clubs mit echten Leuten trägt soviel zum Erfolg beim Sprache lernen hinzu. Es erfolgt täglich ein reger Austausch in den Clubs. Die Leute im Club sind zu einer Familie zusammen gewachsen. Das ist bisher der Erfolg für Duolingo gewesen - der Spaß am Lernen und das aktive Leben in den Clubs. Macht man so etwas jetzt wirklich kaputt??? Scheinbar gilt auch für Duolingo die Devise "Geld ist geil". Nur was Geld bringt zählt, aber Clubs die sich so toll etabliert haben und die sich praktisch zun Selbstläufer entwickelt haben wo zusammen gelernt, geholfen und unterstützt wird, das kann Duo nicht ertragen. KEINER Hat LUST SEINEN CLUB ZU VERLIEREN und keiner hat Lust auf irgendwelche blödsinnigen Wettstreits. Das ist kein Lernen mehr - das ist der reinste Müll!!!! Wenn es noch irgend jemanden bei Duolingo gibt der nicht nur Dollars in den Augen hat, sollte sich mal jemand die Posts zu den Änderungen durchlesen. Aber wie fast immer wird es keinen von Duolingo interessieren. Erst wenn die User weglaufen gehen Dir die Augen auf lieber Duo, aber dann hast Du verloren.
Please don't take away the clubs and bring them back for those of us whom you've forced to use the leaderboards instead.
Please, don’t remove the clubs. I find them very useful. Why not have both options?
Please don't eliminate clubs. Rather make communicating in them more flexible! Por favor!
I am upset that you, DUOLINGO, are eliminating our beloved clubs. Do you think, that competition against others is motivating? We want to discuss and share our thoughts with the friends of our club. Please, KEEP THE CLUBS ALIVE !!!
Would you please explain:
What is a Progress Quiz?
How does one use a Progress Quiz?
How often can one take a Progress Quiz?
Does the quiz only test you on what skills you have already learned?
Is it so simple that everyone passes?
Or is the quiz, more challenging, like a test that you took in college, and at the end of the test, you wished that you had studied more?
Please don't tell us, that it is like something that Duolingo used to do, because many of us are newcomers, and are not interested in what could have been done in other years.
The progress quiz tests you on all the material in the course you are taking. I haven't taken it myself so I can't say how hard it is or how often you can take it.
WHY ARE THERE NO TIPS AND NOTES FOR ALL LANGUAGES IN THE APP sorry for capital letters I just think this is so annoying
For German and Japanese I have some tips and notes very early on. I think they're working on implementing them.
I know but you would think it would be higher on their priorities than health on Android
although I agree about the relative priority, I suspect that these are two different teams working on this - app structure vs adding content to specific languages, so working on one doesn't necessarily detract resources from the other.
^^^THIS OMG! it sucks you can't re-read your theory on the lesson on the go :/
On a more positive note, i am delighted to hear that you are aligning the courses with the CEFR, and hope to see this done for more courses in future. The combo bonus system is also a nice touch.
I don't like the implementation of the leaderboards. This is the lame excuse for XP test out cap which I find very demotivational on languages that I already have background knowledge in. So much so that I completely stopped learning those languages on Duolingo.
Hey Duolingo, thank you for the app, it’s been amazing...however, the things that make it amazing are about to go away and this is a shame. Please don’t mess with the “CLUBS”... this gives a learner like me a great way to interact with people learning the same language as me all around the world. It is a true community and helps encourage more efficient learning. I was forced into Leaderboards after a recent update and I can tell you my motivation to use the app suffered. I missed the interactions with my awesome group and the leader of our group Aman truly cared. He actually found me on LinkedIn and helped me get out of leaderboards and back to my Club!! Please don’t kill this feature it’s what makes Duolingo the best.
But I still have the feeling that you didn't take into account our progress in French and Spanish, so I lost my Golden owl in both. Especially in French I have to repeat so boring easy lessons, because I got it twice so far, after losing it by the upgrades! I cannot understand why.
Ich möchte das in deutsch lesen, kann den Text aber leider nicht für den Übersetzer kopieren
Just got the bonus XP for combos feature on the web version. This is awesome, thanks! :)
Finally, points for combos on PC. That's the first good news from Duo I've heard in a while. Being 'encouraged' on to the word bank-only mobile app for the extra combo points was starting to kill the motivation.
I miss the Lessons format where we could choose to focus on which words we want more practice with.
I also really need a return of the verb tense tables that show us when to use which form of a word, such as verstehe, verstehen, etc.
It's not a good idea to stop or replace the clubs, without my cosy english club I wouldn't be here anymore
Question: Is CEFR also going to roll out to Portuguese? I read elsewhere that it was, but it's not mentioned here on the list of new CEFRed courses.
I was hoping when I found the post that by some unexpected miracle there would be an Arabic-related announcement. Alas... One can always dream...
Quote: Question: Is CEFR also going to roll out to Portuguese?
According to the other CEFR thread it is already available for the Portuguese->English (from Portuguese) course with its 108 skill tree.
This newer A/B tree was rolled out to me recently and I am OK with it for being a reverse tree (where I do not really need English grammar skills).
If you (staff) roll out a CEFR A2 update to make this PT->EN tree longer like the Spanish->English course has it already with 151 skills and 571 lessons I am also OK with it: https://duome.eu/es/en
Thankfully the "CEFR update" (or shall I say reduction compared to the French contributor tree3 with 96 skills which was so nicely layouted by "grammar skills" or how the English->Italian course also does it professionally) is currently not on the 91 skill English->Portuguese (from English) forward course.
And I definitely hope that it is NOT coming to this (my) Portuguese course (from English) which is so well designed grammar-wise?!!
I said it once, twice, probably thrice in other threads:
(I) We are mainly here on Duolingo to learn GRAMMAR, not exclusively vocabulary!!
Several users and I do not only want theme-oriented vocabulary layouted skills with a ZERO clue what exactly hides behind some category topics, but we need:
Additionally dedicated "grammar skills" in PARALLEL to be able to re-strengthen and selectively practice advanced grammar skills and verb tenses (e.g 4x Subjunctive skills) by leveling up the crown levels.
If my Portuguese (from English) tree gets this CEFR "update" too, all existing workaround approaches and strategy concepts will be corrupted and nullified and instead I would have to look for other resources.
I can go to 3rd party flashcard sites to learn vocabulary which works much better with a proper spaced repetition interval (e.g short-term 4-12h, 1-6 days,...) and a daily "classic review" by RECALLING in the L1 English -> L2 target language with an empty text field with typing (classic reviews: pictures, multiple-choice,.. are turned OFF).
This was my feedback to the French "Changes ahead for tree transitions" thread, but staff and community managers do not seem to read and respond to any posts: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29156220$comment_id=31458321
I am fine with "vocabulary / theme skills" which use some real-life phrases and are added AFTER formal introduction "grammar skills" which additionally could randomly throw into grammar mixed from previously learned "grammar skills" where nice "tips and notes" are available on the web portal.
I agree, the Italian course is much better than the new French one, and the old French one was much better too (I think I was on tree 2).
I'm doing it offline now, and checking to see if it changed before going back online, I'm that worried about losing my current italian tree.
Can't speak for French but I think the new Spanish tree is better. And the new "vocabulary" themed skills usually sneak in some new grammar too.
Quote: And the new "vocabulary" themed skills usually sneak in some new grammar too.
Yes, they are ok with their used sentences / phrases for later PRACTICE.
But to teach formal grammar with given "tips and notes" and pesky Romance verb conjugations, tenses and conjunctions the other "learning approach" did not hurt either?!
At least I can select those relevant skills manually for a re-strengthen session.
This looks to be more effective than not knowing exactly what skill to choose or level up for learning something more formally or to work on my weak Portuguese/Romance grammar points.
This is disappointing, although i haven't yet explored enough of the new French tree to compare for myself.
Surely they shouldn't be cutting perfectly good skills? That makes no sense.
A chain of right answers in a row is called a combo, and if you are using a version with this feature, at the end of the lesson you are awarded extra XP for it.
I loved the fact I got 4 extra XP from getting 7 correct answers in a row. This is a nice update.
Tinycards has put new energy into my learning experience, and I feel if fills my need for retaining vocabulary better. I think it would be nice if Duolingo could closer integrate Tinycards. There is currently nowhere to discuss a translation or ask for a correction. Also, it would be better if Tinycards can be made to accept synonyms.
They have tested to integrate Tinycards more closely to Duolingo. Conclusion was negative.
Hey helpful duo. You know what would be great? Getting the full xp amount. That would be great! Oh yeah, and not having leaderboards crammed down my throat. That'd be great two. How about you stop swindling us and give us our proper xp
Hello, I updated to the leaderboard and do not like it. I have no way to contact people any more. It is very sad. Best regards, Isabell.
In this whole list of changes, there is one other significant change that you failed to notify us about: the baffling replacement of precise lesson numbers with vague percentages, and percentages on skills increasing when you do one particular skill. What on earth is that about?
I am not against change per se, and I appreciate that you need to make some changes to stop the site from getting stale. One recent change I do like is the XP bonus, which rewards good performance in a skill. I certainly don't think you have nefarious motives for your changes, and I also understand that you can't please everyone all the time.
HOWEVER, not all changes are good or sensible. Some are more detrimental than beneficial. You may have made them with the best of intentions, but all the same, they make the user experience worse, not better. A classic example of such a detrimental change is this alteration of lesson numbers to percentages. It has upset a LOT of people. Just see the thread I made about it and try to grasp how much bafflement and anger there is over this change.
There are two reasons for this anger, I think - certainly on my part, but from what I've read, on the part of others upset with the change as well. The first reason, as alluded to above, is that the change makes the user experience worse rather than better. Many people, including me, like to plan their study time based on the number of lessons. Before, we could do that. Now, we cannot, at least not without doing one lesson (from which we can calculate the number of lessons left from the percentage - but why should we be forced to do that?) The second reason is that you have given absolutely no notification about this change, and there is no clear rhyme or reason for it.
Most of the respondents to my thread, and I myself, would be happy with a compromise solution: both the lesson number AND percentage to be shown. If you were to do that, I think the Duolingo users affected would forgive you. But just imposing the percentage on its own has been a bad move on your part. I'm sorry, but you've really dropped the ball with this particular change.
Again though, some changes you make are good. Some do improve the user experience (the bonus XP has improved the experience for me). I don't think you're evil incarnate or anything like that. But please understand that sometimes, with some changes, you mess up and really, REALLY upset people. Yes, you might get a few people grizzling about every change, but when a VERY LARGE NUMBER of people are complaining, surely that is time to actually listen and reverse the change, or at least implement the compromise solution suggested above? And by the way, the same applies to the XP cap, which also upset a very large number of your users. At least with that, you explained the reasoning. But did the cap have to be quite so drastic? What would have been wrong with making it 50-100 XP or something like that? Why as low as 20 XP? I really hope that with this too, you might consider a compromise.
The aforementioned criticisms notwithstanding, thank you for the hard work you put in to changing the site. Again, I realise you can't please everyone, but please at least reconsider those changes that upset a very large number of people, which is certainly the case with this percentage thing in the lessons.
"Helpful Duolingo" cheerfully announces that clubs will be happily erased! No Clubs = Ka-CHING! $$$
Health is an asenine concept designed to make duo seem more like a conventional mobile game, but all it really does is hinder language learning, which is sorta dumb considering that Duolingo is a language learning app. Thank goodness web will be spared from that.
If you click on the "Health" link in the original post it says Health is "better for learning."
Who is responsible for this and what is wrong with them?
EDIT: I can't type.
Health is "better for learning."
How is punishing users for making mistakes a good idea when they are learning a new language and are not expected to know much of the language?
It's like having someone take a test about a topic that they know nothing about and punishing them for not knowing a single thing
"Health is an asenine concept designed to make duo seem more like a conventional mobile game"
No, health is an asinine concept designed to make duo money. Plus users get a health shield.
I don't know this health system. After reading the help, it was set up so that learners would not simply go ahead to earn more XP's and lingots, but would not have internalized what they had learned.
I do not yet understand from the context what is wrong with it.
The Health system punishes you for getting questions wrong. After you get so many wrong, you are not allowed to study until your health replenishes. How are you supposed to learn if you don't make mistakes?
The Health system is a stupid idea. Why is banning users from studying for making mistakes acceptable?
If the feeling arises that you are being punished for making mistakes, this is of course not a good motivation.
However, if you make so many mistakes, but progress further and further, for example to be able to keep up with the others, is it also questionable whether what you have learned is really there?
On your second paragraph, that's why health is a good idea in theory.
In practice, MANY valid answers are marked incorrect. This happens particularly often in new and recently updated courses. Being able to make mistakes without penalty is important for course quality because submitting translations that were wrongly marked incorrect is how the courses improve. If they put up a roadblock after a certain number of mistakes, they'll get less indication of where amendments to the courses are needed.
It's not that you're not allowed to study, it's that you can't study new material. You are allowed (and encouraged!) to review material, which you probably need to do anyway if you keep getting things wrong. :)
Not entirely true. You can use the practice button and practice a random skill. One that you may have fully mastered and do not need review on. Multiple times. If you are failing „Im Juni fährt meine Schwester mit unseren Eltern nach Hamburg.“ and you have to practice „Wasser und Brot“ and „Der Mann isst den Apfel“ and „Ich kaufe ein Auto“ repeatedly just to get health, it does nothing to help you learn additional material.
It is far from the fact that you cannot review „new material“ but in fact can either chose to practice something you already have 5 crowns in, or be at the mercy or a random choice of the practice button that may give you the most basic lessons.
The most obvious thing you need to study is the things you are getting wrong, but that isn’t an option.
It would be okay if it regenerated in any reasonable amount of time. It takes HOURS per heart. I use my phone at night to do a few lessons before bed. I usually can only get in 2-3 lessons before my health is lost. And then I get a notification late the next day that it's finally regenerated.
It makes you paranoid. I "cheat" (hover over the words, etc) way more on the phone, because I'm worried about losing health. It would be better for me to try what I think it is, get it wrong, and then learn from my mistake.
It takes HOURS per heart.
That is going to draw many people away from the apps and discourage people from learning.
It makes you paranoid. I "cheat" (hover over the words, etc) way more on the phone, because I'm worried about losing health.
People are going to get anxiety because of the Health system.
I am a terrible test taker and Duolingo just stresses me out so much more than is necessary. Honestly, part of the reason I clicked a cute owl to be part of my language learning was that cute things make me relaxed lol.
But you can practice to restore health? That’s what I usually do when my health gets low.
It discourages learners from making any progress in their learning and encourages them to pay Duolingo money to actually use the app for it's purpose, learning languages.
Hinder language learning?
Really? maybe you should know the pros before you type this.
The Health system helps duolingo keep track of users who just binge through sessions and make learning a little more focused. It also helps make sure you ACTUALLY learn languages rather than learning a language a day and not remembering anything the next day. Some users do duolingo just for higher crowns/levels. The Heath system is one way to track these users and make them actually learn.
PS: I'm not saying that YOU binge through your lessons/sessions. I'm just saying this is a good way from Duo to keep track of things like this.
So, there are no positives to the health system.
Speaking from experience, Duolingo doesn’t care why you got something wrong. My phone autocorrects „how“ to „Joe“ if I don’t use quotes. I have a ton of people named Joe in my contacts, snd rarely type „how“. You lose a heart for that.
You get 5 mistakes then you are done for 25 HOURS. (Or 5 hours if you just want a single health back) To me it is perfectly reasonable to make a single mistake per module, that isn’t unreasonable.
Without health, I am allowed to get things wrong through experimentation. Most of the things I get wrong are because I know the answer, but want to try to see if something else is accepted. Word order in German is fairly fluid outside the verbs, so I like to see if different orders are acceptable. Health takes that away.
'My phone autocorrects „how“ to „Joe“ if I don’t use quotes. I have a ton of people named Joe in my contacts, snd rarely type „how“.'
For what it's worth, you may be able to fix this by changing the keyboard language in the app.
I have only used the iOS apps and, after adjusting the keyboard language setting, the app, keyboard and autocorrect all seem to know that they are expecting English input on certain questions and Dutch (in my case) on others. (I.e., when presented with a Dutch-input question, I added/switched to the iOS Dutch keyboard and Autocorrect now behaves properly.)
iOS and Android are at the bottom of this page. ("Android" is not bolded so it is easily missed.) https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002571823-Does-Duolingo-offer-language-specific-keyboards-
(I agree with your other points but thought this might be helpful.)
@Chocolate_girl - I AM binging, that's how I've always learned. It's a good system for me. If you told me that I need to stop learning when I feel like learning, I will just find another app that lets me learn the way I want to learn, not the way somebody else says I should. This is not school, it's a gamified language learning site. Not surprisingly, a lot of people are attracted to the game part. They introduce Health to discourage binging, but they bring in Leagues, which does just the opposite. Face it, this is not for the learners, this is for revenue, plain and simple (which would not necessarily be a bad thing, as long as they had the guts to just say it out loud).
I can get through about 2-3 lessons without refilling my health, unless I'm reviewing a very easy topic. I don't think anyone is binging too much by doing a handful of lessons per day. If you can only do a few per day you're not going to learn well either.
What's even the point of "higher crowns/levels" if you don't have any knowledge to show for it at the end? What does it matter if some people place high in the leaderboard but aren't actually retaining much of what they learned? These are all abstractions. The point is surely to learn the language, and in practice people learn at different rates and different ways.
I keep the app around, it's nice to have on occasion if you're traveling and want to do a lesson to keep up your streak. Or if you're somewhere bored and want to do a couple. You can usually get through 1-3 before your health goes away.
But it certainly isn't my main method, and health is the reason why.
We should protest when the Android app gets Health. I think of deleting the app or prevent it from updating if it comes out.
But apparently you still care enough to hang around the forums and keep up a streak.
and you can use other apps, busuu, babel, mango etc instead and still like to interact on the forums here. I don’t see your point at all.
Because from what I've learned on this discussion, the web is WAAAAY better than the app. Also, it's their decision to delete the app, no need to be rude or a jerk about it.
I usually do anyway. I've been considering deleting the app for awhile now, and this news just tipped me over the edge.
Web is much better anyways.
The apps always lacks most of the features web has.
Well time to un install the app and i will quit completely if it comes on the web version
@Kally_Tacker - Why should only iOS users be blessed with this!?! :)))) We've had it for a long time now and apparently it's a smashing ''success" :)))))
On a more serious note, I am sorry you will have to suffer through it. All I can say is you're going to get used to it - thus proving (at least in Duolingo's mind) it's a success.
Nuh uh. I'll use the website, and if that gets the health system I'll find another service. And if I can't find one I'll move to Germany.
I LOVE your attitude :))))) Let's hope they don't bring it to the website.
I deleted the app off my iPad and just moved to three seperate apps because of the health system.
It's a success because it makes them a load of cash because you need to pay to keep learning at all. That's why it's a success. Not because it helps anyone learn.
Same here. Started Rosetta Stone last night. My main issue with Duolingo isn't even the health thing (which does seem terrible). It's that they won't fix the glitch on the website that affects Android users. Had a 200-day streak, but starting from scratch with what seems to be a better product.
We are testing it on new learners on Android because the system seems to be working well for users on iOS. Please check it out when you get a chance.
May I ask how you learned that the health system is working well on IOS? Did users take a survey about it? Are you going off of users' data? Or are you just saying it works well because you want it to?
Helpful Duo, I appreciate the response. I have an issue I've brought up in every way I can think of (these boards, Facebook post, and a message in the "bug" reporting system), which is that when I use it online (for French) the green or red answer banner now appears right over the text area (on both my Android phone and on my Kindle), and is no longer movable, so it is impossible to check the correct answer against my answer to see what I did wrong. I've seen others complain about this as well. Was this change intentional, or is it a glitch? And if it's a glitch, is it being fixed? Thanks.
I get the impression that everyone is missing the "on new learners (only)" clause. If I'm reading this correctly, it means that NO ONE currently using the Android mobile app (today is 5 May 2019, btw) will actually get stuck with the Health system, but only NEW USERS of the Android app (those who join as of a certain date, currently known only to Duolingo). In other words, if you don't have Health already, you won't get it, at least not involuntarily, and not yet (at least, not that has been formally announced). These new learners will have no prior experience to compare it to, so Duolingo can see how well it actually works on an unbiased community.
I wish @HelpfulDuo or someone else would confirm this, or tell me if I'm wrong. It's stated above, several times in fact, but apparently the words 'new learners'/'new users' are easily overlooked because everyone is so overwhelmed by the prospect of Health. If everyone knew and understood that we aren't all about to be imminently plagued by Health (ha), it might help quell the Health uproar some.
Duolingo’s normal path to introducing a new feature is to roll it out to new users only first, and then to current users in waves. So just because the announcement says this will start with new users only, doesn’t mean that Health isn’t coming to current users. It will just be slightly delayed.
That may be true. Until then, we can hold out some hope. Believe me, from everything I've heard about it, I don't want Health either! :( If they do eventually roll it out to everyone, then perhaps the explosion of complaints from all the people who hate it, and the number of users who will make good on their threats to leave in droves, will finally get through to them.
It seems like the one way to get feedback back to Duolingo where it MIGHT actually be paid attention to is through the Feedback portal on the app (which I only just found a few days ago, thanks to another post here). I'm going to send all my feedback through that portal from now on, as posting in these forums obviously has no impact at all, other than starting arguments, or feeding existing ones.
I don't know about anyone else, but I personally don't care when we will get Health, it's the fact that we will get it at all that makes me mad.
I don't want it either, Kelly. I'm on your side! But I'd rather worry about maybe getting it in 6-12 months than getting hit with it next week. Meanwhile, I'm hoping that whatever new users do get plagued with it (and believe me, I don't envy them!) will hate it and will speak up about it. Or, maybe Duo will even have tweaked how it works in the Android version to make it slightly less horrible. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet, but everything about Health sounds absolutely awful, and I can't imagine why they want to bring it to MORE people (other than to lure us to Plus to make extra $$). Believe me, I get all of that.
Unless Android app users are really different from iOS app users, I expect that Health will meet Duolingo’s criteria for success on Android just as it already has on iOS.
Judging by community reaction here to many Duolingo changes, compared to Duolingo basing their actions in user metrics, I have concluded that we who post here in the forums are a vanishingly small and highly unrepresentative subset of Duolingo’s users. Remember that this is a company for whom getting a user to the 30-day mark is the acme of success. Those of us with 200 day streaks (to take my streak as an example) are less than blips on the radar.
Is duo just utterly deaf to the users' issues with the health system? It certainly seems that way to me.
Is duo just utterly deaf to the users' issues
Is that even a question at this point?
I haven't been a member of Duolingo long and maybe someone can explain it to me.
What I can't quite understand in the whole discussion about the health system, but also about the shutting down of the clubs, has this already been asked before and has resulted from this that most people wish for this?
Because if this is not the case, Duolingo's approach seems strange to me. First implement something and then ask if users like it, especially if it means for existing clubs to be removed.
So, briefly asked, how does Duolingo come up with the features she wants to implement or change? Were there any polls on this before?
Yes me too, i have only recently rejoined duolingo and i am confused on the new additives to this.
From what I hear (I use the web version) the health system is available on the iOS app and is now being applied to the Android app. At the moment Duo says there is no plan to apply it to the web but this may change.
A google search for 'duolingo health system' shows results from the forums from 2017 !!!
Health system has been on android for a long time already. It is not an enjoyable system so I hope they don't add it to the web version, it just disrupts your learning honestly
Hi Devinja1! The features we keep and expand are based on data, in most cases. We sometimes have to make the difficult decision to stop supporting older features that have some cost and are only used by a small fraction of users in order to make room for new features that show more wide adoption and engagement. This is essential in order to keep Duolingo moving forward and being the best at what it does. This is the case with Clubs and Leaderboards. Not an easy decision, but we find it necessary.
When it comes to Health, the users who are using it have shown growth in # of lessons they do, learning metrics, and how consistent they are with learning—and some of those who do not like it have decided to subscribe to Plus to avoid it, which is also good for everyone, as it allows us to continue offering 100% of all our high quality learning content for free, to you and millions who would otherwise not be able to access all these materials at no cost. All the things we build and offer you, like the recently announced CEFR-aligned courses, voice recordings, new languages, podcasts, stories have high operational costs, and we are determined to keep the content free. This means that we might charge for non-learning things, like streak repairs and ad removals, and it might mean that some of us have to pace how quickly we advance in a day, and instead have to review materials when we make too many mistakes. Health has been a good thing for Duolingo and to everyone who benefits from our mission and what we offer. We appreciate everyone who have shown understanding around this, and are sad that some people are feeling like they are not being heard or that we have nefarious motivations behind everything we're doing. We do hear you, and will continue to try our hardest to remain enjoyable, sustainable, effective, and true to our mission.
It sounds a bit like you expand Health to Android to annoy more people into buying Plus. I would not call that offering free learning for all. Smells rather like bait and switch.
Thanks for the explanation. But I don't understand, if you have already made the decisions, what is the point of this survey? It doesn't change anything about this decision anymore, that's not logical for me.
Those who have been in the clubs lose their clubs for good, whether they like it in the questionnaire or not, and the decision does not change anything.
"and some of those who do not like it have decided to subscribe to Plus to avoid it, which is also good for everyone"
Translation: It is good for you to have us blackmail you into buying your way around the features you hate.
I also get itchy when I start hearing the corporate adjective-speak like "high quality learning content." The more adjectives, the more marketing-less factual the claim.
"When it comes to Health, the users who are using it have shown growth in # of lessons they do, learning metrics, and how consistent they are with learning" Even letting the suggestion that somehow simply increasing tyhe NUMBER of lessons equates to better learning, I'd like to see the raw data on this. It's easy to make a claim like this, but where is the proof? Show me unbiased numbers that shows that users who have endured these systems actually, at the end of the day, can read/speak/understand the language BETTER than those who haven't.
While I agree Duolingo should provide more data to support their claims, the vast majority of posts here have no facts supporting them except anecdotal comments and so-called surveys which by design will gather votes from primarily people with one point of view. The bulk of this discussion on both sides is factless. other than how an individual poster feels personally.
So you're basically saying - if you don't like it, pay us money. That's the fastest way you are going to lose all your members, as they are not going to put up with this crap.
A downvote is not an argument.
We know you hate the health system, we just don't care. As long as we can scoop up every pretty penny possible, we will be happy just ignoring you.
Let's face it:
I don't know the Leaderboard principle yet. But the descriptions are about the hunt for XPs.
If I understand the context correctly, on the one hand you build in playful elements to start a competition, on the other hand you realize that many people are only interested in the competition and then build in a restriction again? Do I see that right?
For those who do not take part in the competition because they have always wanted to learn the language, the self-directed learning through this system, as I have understood it, is discouraged.
I wonder what Duolingo's goal is. Learning languages or whatever you want to learn in life also means offering different options for learning types. The one needs the strict guidance, the other needs more his very own way.
I can understand that Duolingo has to earn money, but here the claim of wanting to be one of the best free learning platforms and having to earn money on the other hand is biting.
To earn money, people need to see the benefits of paying subscriptions as much as possible and that means presenting the free learning platform only as a trial platform and making it as hard as possible for as many people as possible to get a subscription.
When you say "some people" feel they are not being heard, you do realise you are referring to pretty much everybody on this particular forum? Why not start by admitting that? Why are the vast bulk of the people who are supposedly "showing understanding" (which implies that you realise you are doing something unpopular) so conspicuous by their absence here? And the implication that the rest of us are not "showing understanding" for something that you have not adequately explained nor motivated is uncalled for. For instance, where is your data on clubs that contradicts almost every opinion I've heard expressed on the subject? We all love our clubs. They are our only point of contact with our Duolingo friends.
Does Duolingo not recognise the overwhelming negative reaction to your original post to be data in any sense? You should be very cautious about drawing conclusions from your behavioural measurements if they are contradicted by what your user base is telling you directly when they are given the chance. From my experience and what I hear from others, we are seeing not better learning, but more effort wasted on material already mastered because Duolingo forces us to advance at a snail's pace. You should be concerned about that and questioning your preconceptions. E.g. devise a poll or ask your entire user base their opinion on one issue every day.
Really, Duolingo, after nearly 4 years I am losing faith. Other language apps are giving a better experience without the runaround.
Thing is, I often lose health not because I am going through the material too fast but because I am using Duo on a phone with a tiny keyboard and it is easy to have clumsy fingers especially if not in a quiet room. And then you're locked out for hours.....
It is not true that Health make you locked out for hours. You can always earn more health by doing practice.
The thing is, I want to decide what pace I learn a language and not be limited in my abilities because it is supposed to be better.
Besides not to be rude but removing/cutting the experience from doing the test out after (more then) a thousand comments on this board questioning that move is not really "listening"
What on earth are you talking about? ‘Good for everyone?’ If that was true then no one would have complained. Be honest, you are the only ones benefiting, aren’t you? We have to endure health whilst you make money from people buying Plus and more health. This is blantanly arrogant.
@dogomolo If health is so beneficial to learning, why are Plus users not forced into it? With your logic, wouldn't they be at a disadvantage if they opted out of health?
@dogomolo, you're asking everyone for proof and sources but relying on things said by Luis without any proof.
Let's take his quote you provided: "We’re basically doing very large-scale data-driven education, and improving it every day. For example, if we want to know how early we should teach plurals, we simply test it."
As someone who'd been developing the courses in the Incubator for 5 years, I can say that this statement is no more than marketing. Sure, there is data being gathered, but the way the trees work would not allow anyone to test if plurals should be taught earlier or later. There are things which can be tested, like what works better, typing in the answers or using given set of words. But there are other things which cannot be tested, just because not everything is flexible and fluid. I've read quite a few Luis's interviews and they are full of such little lies. Things which sound fancy, but which are very far from reality.
So, using facts for decision making is great, but if one is cherry picking facts, then such decisions are questionable. And that's one of the reason why they are questioned in this discussion. Another one is just poor communication.
Advantage of buying Duolingo Plus and using health shield is meant to be subjective. It is comparable to smoking cigarettes. There exists facts against smoking but people still buy cigarettes for subjective reasons.
(comment to your previous writing)
Duolingo say they acquired their information from tablet user feedback.
Can you provide source?
Even if what you are saying is right, health was still based on facts. Luis has said:
We’re basically doing very large-scale data-driven education, and improving it every day. For example, if we want to know how early we should teach plurals, we simply test it.
I don't see that using facts to make decisions is unfair. Listening is important and that's why there is health shield for people who really want to use it. Duolingo cannot reverse facts so they cannot offer health shield to all users. There is two options: offer health permanently to all users or offer paying customers to disable it. Why they chose to ask money? One reason is that they need money somehow to provide free language education. Other question is that is it best way for Duolingo to earn money. Duolingo Plus should be enhanced experience of Duolingo, otherwise selling it would be dumb. To me it wasn't but maybe others are enjoying it more. This is interesting question that are plus users overlally really enjoying their subscription. If not, then Duolingo is earning money from nothing.
We have to endure health whilst you make money from people buying Plus and more health. This is blantanly arrogant.
This is not true. Their decision for Health was based on facts, see for example this post https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29350915/Introducing-the-Learning-Science-team-at-Duolingo
@Dogmolo Not exactly. Duolingo say they acquired their information from tablet user feedback. However, there is no feedback section on the tablets, as I have already noted on this overall post. Therefore it is not correct to say that the health decision was fair. Additionally, the point you made is irrelevant to the part you took from my comment. Duolingo still will make money from it.
If Health improves the learning experience, why are you offering a Health Shield?
Because health only exists to get people to pay. What they don't realize is that it's just making people leave.
@dogolomo, but for something that markets itself as free, shouldn't it BE free? I'm confused as to what your point is here. The only reason they're pushing health is that it's supposed to be "good for learning." Not moneymaking. Now, honestly that seems like lies, even your argument seems so.
AND, if it's SO good for learning, why isn't it here on online? Hmm?
Honestly, the health system isn't that bad when it comes to it's idea. Just I wish that we could either finish a lesson after we ran out of health or pause lessons so we could finish them after we regained health, and that we could practice offline.
The health system is a really bad idea, though. Learning comes from having the freedom to make mistakes. A system that punishes mistakes is dreadful pedagogy.
The health system was horribly detrimental to my learning. I bought Plus because I very much do love and support Duolingo, but this makes me very, unbelievably, upset. The people who can’t learn under the health system and can’t afford Plus, what do you do? You just run them off the site with your horrible tactics. So many here are vocally disappointed with you and you continue to ignore us. Listen to your community and maybe you’ll win us over. But right now you’re losing.
lol you don't need that much money Duolingo why don't you get a job or something instead
I get it. This is an incredible service and to do something like this costs money... LOTS of money. I’m currently using duolingo to help me learn Japanese and personally I enjoy the health system. Of course I’m not constantly taking new courses I always review courses I’ve taken. I can practice what I’ve learned to get my health back, and spend 30 seconds on an add to get another health if I want. If you’re upset that you have to review what you’ve learned then you’re not invested enough in really learning the language. I actually wouldn’t want unlimited health. The only reason I’d go plus is for the quizzes and to support duolingo because it’s an amazing service. Just wish they’d update the Japanese course :(
It's not that we don't like to review, we want to review the stuff that we're getting wrong, but the health system doesn't let you do that for several hours.
greaseCat, If I was reviewing content, I probably wouldn’t mind health either — your own point is that you don’t often run out or need more than one ad-watch to keep going. For people trying to learn NEW content, between real mistakes and simple typos, the health system means running out of health in the middle of a lesson (which, for typos, is rage-inducing) and being locked out of either finishing that lesson or starting it over — for hours. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have unlimited time throughout the day to fit in Duo. If I “flunk out” due to Health limitations when I have time, I might not get my learning in at all. That doesn’t help ME learn anything. It DOES make me angry. I know there are costs. I don’t mind that there are ads after each lesson to help cover costs. There might even be add-on services I would pay for, but the actual lessons are the essence of Duo and if they expect me to pay to remove a pain point they introduced themselves (to upgrade to Plus so I can turn off Health), they are sadly mistaken about how I respond to those kinds of customer experiences.
Duolingo is deaf to issues in general, not just issues involving the health system.
It just seems a bit schizophrenic for 'helpful duo' to brightly and happily tell us about all these wonderful things happening, while completely ignoring the screaming and wailing of frustrated users. I'd understand it more if we were not given these lovely little propaganda messages, and they just ignored us entirely, tbh.
That's the whole point: Duolingo isn't totally deaf to the issues users have; they ARE simply ignoring you entirely ;)
Duo has to balance the needs of its users with the 'needs' of its business.
So, until the annoyance of the users becomes so great that it outweighs the utility of driving user engagement/etc, it's not going to matter. That means:
XP competitions > clubs
babying with picture questions and feel-good pats on the back > actually learning and becoming proficient in a language
finding and holding on to users > ensuring people improve and 'graduate' from Duo
More hours and sessions and users = more fluffed up stats to fool VCs with and more ad views = more $. In the meantime they are betraying the core value proposition of their business (teaching people languages) and gaining a reputation for simply being a place to practice 'How are you' a million times and be told you are an expert for doing so. But, by the time people realize, those VCs' money will be long gone... To date, they have raised $108M :)
What do you mean by ‘feel good pats on the back’? The waving owl animation, for anyone who has seen it, is offensively patronising. Someone in one of my clubs once said they made him swear.
While I do agree that balancing business and customer needs is very challenging, still in comparison to many other companies Duo-team manages to have a pretty bad reputation. While the product itself is loved and used by so many, and the user base is growing, through all these years there has been a constant stream of complaints from users, forum moderators, and incubator contributors. I don't think it's normal.
I used to work for GEICO - an american car insurance company. Their similarity to Duolingo is that they also have a green cute mascot - a gecko. And that's about it. People hate insurance, they are forced to purchase a policy by law. And the only time you engage with the product is when you have an accident - which is very unpleasant. So it is a much more challenging environment than having a free language-learning platform. Nevertheless, GEICO manages to maintain very positive relationships with customers on average. I was on the voice of the customer team, and I was surprised by how well the company addressed customer issues and communicated its policy.
I think if a car insurance company can do it, then a free language-learning app should be able too.
GEICO manages to maintain very positive relationships with customers on average
How GEICO made that conclusion?
@dogomolo, it's not their conclusion, it's mine, given everything I've seen and heard from people outside the company.
Internally, the company runs various surveys to monitor customer satisfaction and also there are other indicators like app reviews, social media messages, number of views of geico adds on youtube (they are funny, so people record them from TVs and publish on youtube and watch for entertainment), and so on.
May I object Zig Zag to the use of the word "schizophrenic" when you described duolingo's attitude ?
It shows disrespect to the people who suffer from this serious and cruel mental illness. and to their family as well.
Welcome to the English language, where one word can have multiple meanings.
1.1 (in general use) characterized by inconsistent or contradictory elements.
‘walking around the museum was a strangely schizophrenic experience’
‘The film makes an implicit statement about our schizophrenic, debt-driven economy.’
‘She turns to the only man on the planet whose liberal do-gooding is more schizophrenic than her own.’
‘The best of these songs verges on being schizophrenic with its double vocals.’
‘After that initial lawsuit, they took the schizophrenic step of complying with the ruling.’
‘The dizzying altitude, schizophrenic temperatures, lack of rainfall, and coarse terrain make it one of the most grim of all the places that humans call home.’
‘It's a very schizophrenic life I lead.’
‘The mountain is a 6,288-foot-high fortress guarded by schizophrenic weather that could turn the devil himself into a sniveling wuss.’
‘He muddled his way through the opening verse and belted out the chorus, creating a schizophrenic performance.’
‘His debut feature suffers from a schizophrenic lack of focus.’
‘What really does this film in is the schizophrenic nature of the story.’
Maybe they WEREN'T trying to use it in a hurtful way because MAYBE the word "schizophrenic" is not limited to being defined as a mental illness? Just saying...
That bothered me too, as well as the use of the word "deaf." And just because it's common usage doesn't mean it's any less ableist. I can't cancel out all those downvotes, but I can at least say, I agree with you.
deaf means doesn't hear-- it would be different if they used capital D Deaf, but they don't mean the community, they mean the medical diagnosis-- which means someone doesn't hear.
Which means that Duolingo doesn't hear our complaints about this subject. It's not that they can't hear our complaints, Duolingo won't hear what we say.
Duolingo is deaf to issues in general
Just like people in government and almost every company, organization out there.
the opposite actually... in capitalism companies care more about the customers' opinions as otherwise the customers are likely to switch to something else
in a socialist system where there's no competition between companies the service can be as $hit as possible and people will still use it as they have no other option
Well, for Duolingo it IS true that they're deaf to issues in general... and aren't playing their cards right.
It seems as if any Duo product manager knows far better what is good for us than we do. They will keep thinking that way until they drive us away in droves.
Soon they may limit us to only learning 20 words, and then we have to pay, like a certain other language learning site I know of.
But other apps already do this... take drops which limits you to 5 minute lessons before you've got to pay. It is a crap system for people who want to put time into their learning, but it makes them money so they couldn't care.
It's just about money.
Duolingo Plus contains a "Health shield"
I think they just force stupid Health onto all of us to make us subscribe to Duolingo Plus while ruining free education for everyone.
They just want to get as much money out of us as possible no matter what we say. Simple as that.
They say that "Health discourages binging behaviour"
I'm going to be blunt - it is none of your business as to how I learn languages. Restricting my ability to learn will just make me look elsewhere for language resources - it is precisely why I refuse to use other apps such as Drops. If I want to spend 5 hours learning because my brain can handle it, that's my prerogative.
Also, when you penalise people for simple typos, it is even more reprehensible.
I am not a child, and if you implement Health on the web app I will stop using Duolingo, and I will be telling everyone (which includes a sizeable language learning Discord server of which I am one of the staff there) not to use your service. It's really that simple. And I think a lot of people will do the same thing.
On the binging point, it makes sense to slow down the people who come to Duolingo with no prior knowledge and who need solid reinforcement before moving forward, but that's way too restrictive for everyone else. In theory, someone with prior knowledge wouldn't be hindered by the health system because they wouldn't make so many errors in a lesson they should move forward after, but the courses aren't perfect and many correct answers are marked wrong.
As the health system expands, I fear for the future quality of courses because knowledgeable users are a big part of quality control. When courses are released or updated, the new material often contains errors and doesn't accept many perfectly correct answers. When a knowledgeable user encounters one of these problems, they get the question wrong and can report it. If they're hindered by a "three strikes-you're out" rule, they're not able to report as many problems, so the problems go unfixed for longer.
I started with no prior knowledge of Swedish.
I learned by experimenting with the language, which means lots of mistakes - which is how any proficient learner will thrive in their target language.
"I am not a child..." (but if Duolingo doesn't hear my demands and do what I say, I will blackmail, use my great influence to try to get them to lose users and make them regret not hearing me, instead of just being an adult about it and accepting that if many people benefit from something then that will have more weight than my whims, and if I truly were to leave the site then I would do it without throwing a tantrum). That's what I read
The fact is though - people are universally against it - if you see the comments. Believe me - nobody is "benefitting" from the Health system and instead are being hindered by it. One does not learn a language by being restricted to only a couple of lessons a day - and if I wish to learn more, that's my prerogative, not that to be dictated by an asinine concept put in place by a tone-deaf website staff.
What's "blackmail" about my comment? I stated my demand, based off my experience with learning a language, and that if they plow ahead with their asinine idea I will be leaving the service. Hardly a "tantrum".
You, on the other hand, are throwing a tantrum because someone doesn't agree with your ideas and has the guts to stand up and say something. Heaven forbid that someone clearly state their boundaries - which I know is anathema to some.
I tried Drops with this system of 5 minutes a day. I can't remember anything I learned from it. I remember that I learned words like Spoon, Knife, and Fork (As those were the farthest I really went before I was too annoyed with it to continue), but I didn't remember the translations until I got to that section in Duolingo. This system isn't going to help me, and I'm probably not the only one.
Because we all know that we can't make suggestions to improve things if they are free, right?
To be frank, I've been with duolingo for a very long time now and been a host for almost 2 years and my biggest complain always is lack of communication. There are always questions on "why this" or "how does this", that come up during our meetings and at least for me, I am usually just shaking my head saying: I dont know, I'll ask, I wish I knew, I have no clue. Yes we are just volunteers but if we are to expand on the work and mission of Duolingo we ought to know what the seven deuces is going on. It does not look good when a student asks me: why is clubs going away? and I have absolutely no clue why! I didn't even know it was! Please, communicate better, explain how certain things work and why? I've had people asking me what is the "plus", why do I want "plus", and as an almost 2 year long host I dont know! I can't answer that! Same thing with health issues, or "why is the browser version so different than the app" or "why are clubs going away" or "what is replacing clubs" or ..... most definitely frustrating. And finally, answering: oh you need to start reading the forums" is not a good enough answer. As a volunteer, i already dedicate enough "free" hours for Duolingo without having to dig for days into a forum.
I'm actually unsure what a host does haha! However, it certainly seems like someone in a position of some responsibility who ideally should be getting a regular stream of update emails from DL about changes well before the rest of us are informed. I'm very surprised that's not happening for you.
A host are individuals who run or facilitate Duolingo in person meetings. I host one for português and another for Italian monthly.
I know one good answer to question why browser and app versions are so different: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31769746/Cross-Platform-Standardization
If the health system is a problem, just use the web. You can legit fail as much as you want, but you will learn better because you do not have to get dissapointed because you lost your health, and do not have to fear of loosing your streak. :)
The problem is not the health system, the problem is duo ignoring their users' complaints. If things continue going like this, health system will be implemented to the web version soon.
I thought I was safe because I didn't have health on the website........ Obviously not.
did it not used to be on web?
The heart system used to be on the website. This merely set a higher bar for completing any given lesson, but did not limit the number of attempts to do so within a given time period, nor try to coerce users to buy freemium currency to overcome this artificial obstacle.
Whether or not one is of the opinion that this was better or worse than the current system, it was nothing at all like the 'health system'.
'Health' looks to me very much like a ploy to turn DL into a freemium/subscription-model service by stealth.
Removing functionality and then offering it back to users for a fee is, by definition, no longer the '100% free, now and forever' software I was promised when I signed up.
well it is because you can still learn everything for free you just have to wait a long time for health to restore
but I agree that would be very bad if it happens
Same. In fact...did it not used to be on web? I seem to recall that's why I left Duo in the first place, years back...
That's when they'll really feel the consequences of ignoring users, its one thing to change the design, take away scarves, make the website an eyesore, reset bits of progress in some courses, it's a whole other thing to limit the learning we do on here, the health system is probably the very last thing people want, so if it gets to the web version, well I sure hope people make them feel it, I already struggle to stay consistent on here, the health system will just really push me away personally
Research from Dr. McDoctorson shows that it's 95,8% more better than before, so please get downvoted and never complain again, you complainer only good at complaining.
I can't believe so many people thought this comment was serious. I get that sarcasm can be hard to see through text, but this is ridiculous.
That's just statistics. It's not really showing how users in general feel about the service.
Also, Dr. McDoctorson? Seems legit...
Me IRL: says I'm sarcastic and good at understanding sarcasm
Also me: takes an entire decade to get the sarcasm in the comment
Yep, I'm stupid.
Oh my gosh we can be not-understanding buddies, I'm terrible at sarcasm lol.
I once told my friend to drink water and he said "Eh, overrated. It's not like you need it to live." and I said "YES SIR YOU DO ACTUALLY" and he laughed at me rightly lol
Haha! My mom's been sarcastic so many times and sometimes I couldn't understand if she was being sarcastic or not
I think they just ignore complaining on the forums.
Which is probably a good thing since some people around here would likely complain if they found $50 on the street.
Duolingo seems to rely more on metrics and user stats like usage and lessons completed etc. Which is probably a good thing.
Anyone care to explain to me why you are downvoting this? (Not that it matters greatly)
Duolingo does appear to ignore the forums and user created polls and pleas.
People complain about everything here. Add something, remove something, change something, don’t change it, someone tends to complain no matter the action or inaction on behalf of duolingo and also for most, if not all, of the complaints people make there are people who like it.
Even health, some people like it.
Hence duolingos reliance on metrics and statistics rather than the posts on the discussion boards.
So what have I said that is either a lie, untrue or insulting or otherwise deserving of downvotes
Also thanks for the lingots
The reason (I'm guessing here) for the downvotes is that if you read the comments you will see that people are not complaining about finding $50 in the street. In fact they are making well reasoned arguments about the undoubted downsides to the "improvements" and asking that their voices should be listened to. It is certainly true that some "improvements" have in the past attracted praise but the praise has been hugely outweighed by the objections. Either point of view is valid provided it is backed by reasoned argument but the fact that Duolingo repeatedly rolls out changes which have caused a veritable landslide of complaints versus compliments proves that Duolingo does NOT (not shouting, just emphasising) listen to its users but goes ahead regardless. People have taken issue with your characterisation of them as ungrateful whingers, hence the downvotes. I did not downvote you by the way but the temptation was strong.
We seem to be more than 5 people here. There are probably several thousand of us actually. And I have yet to see, one positive comment about Health. It can be skewed if not randomized yes, but I don’t see a logical relation between enlisting in forums and being negative towards Health.
The problem I see is that people see some complaints on the forums and think this represents everyone or the majority.
I see it over and over, that people claim that “vast majority” of users think this way or that way based on some posts on the forums used by a fraction of the total user base.
There are apparently 300 million users, even if we eliminate half of those as duplicate accounts, do you think 150 million have voiced their opinion on the forum?
Because that seems to be what people believe.
A post with 50 people supporting the idea that health is bad means next to nothing compared to the millions of people who are using duolibgo with health.
That is why I believe duolingo uses metrics and statistics rather than basing their app in the posts of a minority of users.
Everyone is listen too, it’s just they don’t care about your posts. They care about how much time you used the app, how many lessons completed etc
Reply to antonio below - you really think that the 50 people ranting on this topic are a randomly selected potion of the 100 million users??!!??
I’ve not seen a single positive comment about “Health” to be honest. Have you?
now, let me ask you, have you ever seen election prognosis? they are usually very acurate. Do you believe that they interview half the population?
In any large population, just a big enough group will indicate the outcome with great accuracy, that group is usually around 1000 people even for multimillion people elections.
So what you are saying, while it may sound true for lay persons, is false.
Statistics is fun and interesting! ;)
The issue is that Health, in particular, has had a very negative reaction and Duolingo never seems to engage with the community except to tell us it's good news that they are making our experience worse. Being totally dismissed like that can be infuriating. Additionally, "metrics" only give you a very superficial understanding of things; discussion on the forums offers room for much more detailed analysis. Duolingo's communication leaves the unmistakable impression that they don't actually care about what they accomplish except making money - and that's probably not fair, but it's what they manage to tell us. Which is ironic, for a company that supposedly is trying to improve communication between people.
huh? this is really serious.
I have not used my “heath” account at all, and on my lingot account, I use the clubs more than anything.
I soon have no meaningful use for my current language learning and must find something else.
give the owl a hearing aid and stop being insensitive to people getting choked off
Sometimes the website just isn't convenient. For example, I use the app most of the time because I don't have access to a regular computer when I'm most likely to want to do some lessons. People who practice while they're out and about, commuting or at a waiting room or any number of other places/situations where some quick language practice can cut through some boredom are basically stuck with the app (as I understand it, the mobile website and the app aren't very different).
@sphinx not true! the mobile website acts like the website, not like the app
Well, yes, but the health thing has been a point of contention for a LONG time now. Yes people complain about everything, but people complain about the little things for shorter periods of time than the worse things
Anyone care to explain to me why you are downvoting this?
well I wouldn't have downvoted initally but since you started to complain I just had to give you a red
You and your issues with the health system, and the people that left a like on your comment that agree with you, over 200 maybe a lot more in the coming days, are part of a minority, you have to understand that. Thousands and thousands and thousands of users benefit from the health system. So even with your top comment and all the dislikes I will get on my comment. Duolingo will listen to the data: Thousands benefit from the health system? = more important than the whims of a few idle people that can handle 5 hours of binge learning.
I fail to comprehend how the health system is beneficial to anyone. It locks you out of a lesson you fail, and makes you retake past lessons which you probably don't fail. If you're failing a lesson you should be retaking THAT lesson, not other lessons.
It's about the burnout, if you fail at something, the risk that you will "ragequit" forever increases with every new try. They would rather have you try again later with a fresh mindset than try now and then quit forever.
Not everyone does that, sure some people do, but you shouldn't punish everyone for a small groups' actions.
What an obnoxious assumption to make about the users, and what an obviously specious justification for a worse user experience.
Where are these thousands of users who are in favour of the health system? I see the odd comment here and there, but they are far and away the minority.
If they made the health system something you could opt into, something you could toggle on and off, then i'm sure there'd be no complaints. Then the people who benefit from it could continue to do so, and the rest of us wouldn't be impacted.
Users that like the health system aren't as likely to comment. Who knows how many there are except Duolingo? They most likely won't give us a data chart for it anyhow. If they did, how many people do you think would believe it?
If they made the health system something you could opt into, something you could toggle on and off, then i'm sure there'd be no complaints
They have done it already. Duolingo Plus. People are complaining that it should be free?
I don't think Duolingo Plus should be free. I just think that they shouldn't be resorting to sabotaging the basic functionality of the free version to get people to pay for the premium version.
Making it opt-in, rather than opt-out for a fee, would at least demonstrate in good faith that the health system is not just there to worsen the program and drive users to Plus.
Heck, if health is so beloved and beneficial, why not make opting-in a Plus exclusive perk?
Of course, but people are sadly very good at finding something negative to say.
Wow, you're condescending. I'm not having to try very hard here!
Look, i get that Duo probably isn't raking in a vast fortune, that they need to fund themselves and that the original revenue model (immersion) is no longer feasible for legal reasons. But to adopt a solution that involves trying to force users to pay for a premium version by ruining the regular app, and then to have the nerve to claim it's for the benefit of our learning - that's just dishonest.
It gives me no pleasure to focus on the negative, I would love to be saying positive things, but if they bring health to the free website, it will ruin the website. I'm not going to go out my way to find nice things to say about that!
You're right in that Duolingo hasn't released an official statement about the user data to settle our argument, but if you were to read the making duolingo vlog, once you understand the A/B tests, the amount of users Duolingo has, the amount of users it gains daily, how they introduce changes, being aware that this infamous health system is old news, and after putting 1+1 together you would see that you are not the majority. Yes, many more people will rally to defend your statement, you are loud and firm. But you are not the majority.
The fact that people are willing to put up with an inconvenience in order to keep using the app is not proof that they like being inconvenienced!
And I mean, the fact that posts like yours are getting downvoted and posts like Emmeline's are getting upvoted is at least suggestive of majority opinion, no?
Just because people with powerful opinions actually look through this doesn't mean that those without want to get involved with this.
TIL that forcing users into something = universal like for something.
That is laughable.
Hi Zig_Zag_Wanderer! I understand it may seem that way, but we try very hard to balance the voices of our web forum users vs. what we are learning from our mobile users, who are in the majority. Despite what we are hearing here, Health is a successful experiment, which is why it is still around, and why we are planning to test it on Android (on new users only, keep in mind), to see what we learn. Based on those results, we will decide on next steps, which could mean we'd expand it to users who have been around longer. Please keep in mind there are many groups we need to listen to. This is also why we are collecting feedback via that link in the post, so that we can better and more fairly share what your feelings are around these launches/news with our teams. Please consider submitting yours if you haven't already.
@HelpfulDuo - if you are an iOS user, you have no choice but to learn how to use the health system. Just because we have adapted to it, does not mean we prefer it or like it. It also doesn't mean it is the best way to help someone learn a language by penalizing them for getting something wrong that they have never seen before. Again, if an iOS user has no choice with the health system and still uses the app, it does not mean they like the health system.
well I don't know about the iOS app but on android at least it is very inconvenient to use as it doesn't fit to your screen
Despite what we are hearing here, Health is a successful experiment, which is why it is still around
Your ignorance is very astounding. Like what redsed wrote in response to your comment, many people on iOS who have Health on their app are "forced" to use Health and adapt to it. The "truth" is that the majority of iOS users do not like the Health system and have no choice but to stick with it on iOS or uninstall the app.
This shows you don't really care about your users and only care about what interests you while ignoring those who actually use your product.
Strongly agree. I don't see too many comments from people who like it, unless Duolingo counts people who say "stop complaining, it's free" as positive votes.
With any change, one only sees complaints from people who don't like it and very little from people who do.
For me this is not a change, as I use iOS when I travel or when I'm on the go, so I've been "blessed" with the Health feature for a long time now. May I ask, how is it helping you? I, for one, haven't seen any advantages, but maybe there's something I am missing. How is Health helping you learn better? What is it doing for you? I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely interested in finding out what you think - you and others that like the feature.
How do you know how the majority of iOS users feel? I haven't seen it yet since I'm on Android, but it seems very interesting. Ever heard of the silent majority? But if you have access to user stats and opinions, I'd like to know your sources.
I have to admit, though, that adding a health shield for plus users makes it smell fishy.
@Awesomelst - You have a very good point, we don't actually know how the majority of users feel, we only know the opinions of the ones that write on the forums.
The problem is I don't think Duo knows either, because there is no reliable way of measuring the success of the feature. It's not optional, so it's not like users choose it voluntarily, there's no feedback on the iOS (I assume there's no feedback on Android either), so how CAN you measure how successful the feature is? By the number of people opting to purchase Plus, to have the shield? (Btw, that is THE lure they use in the ads I'm seeing). By the number of people choosing to watch ads in order to "gain a heart"'? By the number of people willing to spend gems to purchase Health? By the fact that the number of users giving up the app is lower than they thought? How exactly CAN you judge the success of a mandatory feature?
How about make it optional? Then at least you would see how many users actually WANT to use it, not how many take to the forums to complain.
I admit I am not a fan. I've never been a fan, but it doesn't bother me so much when I work on Spanish. Chances are I won't run out of health, so I don't care. When (if) I want to work in Italian, which is a language I am not overly familiar with, chances are I will run out of Health PDQ. And that is exactly what's bothering me - when you start to learn a language, you are bound to make mistakes. How does it help you, as a learner, to be on a mandatory time-out for making one too many mistakes? Furthermore, some of those mistakes are not even your fault sometimes, as the courses are not perfect and they don't accept perfectly valid answers.
@Awesomelst - I can't reply to you anymore, so I will just reply to myself. I miss the decaying skills and Immersion more than I can say, but to be fair I think that with the new, much longer tree, you would need to spend a few hours a day keeping it gold.
Time-out only prevents you from doing new lessons, BUT practice is so basic that makes you want to quit in frustration (at least that has been my experience). If you're in the middle of the tree, let's say, it does not serve you to repeat I am a boy, I am a girl, etc. ad nauseam. It would be great if Practice meant practice the things that you got wrong, but in my experience it doesn't. It just takes you back to the very beginning. You can ''cheat" by watching an ad to get one heart and keep doing new lessons or you can cheat altogether and purchase Plus, which offers a Health Shield (which is another reason why I don't buy the ''Health is beneficial for users'' argument - if it was so beneficial, it would be unavoidable, period).
At this point, the discussion on Health for me is purely academic, as I have "enjoyed" this feature for a long time and for the most part I really don't care, as I don't run out of Health. I just think Health is detrimental to learning, based on what (admittedly limited) experience I have as a language teacher. I am thankful that they didn't have that when I started Spanish (I wouldn't have stuck with it) and that they don't have it on the web version. The minute they bring it to the web, I am definitely gone.
The problem isn’t that you can’t practice.
The issue is that if you do choose to practice (multiple times to get multiple health back) you do not get to practice the areas you are making mistakes. If you are having trouble with future tense, that isn’t an option to practice. You must either get a random thing to practice from the practice button, or you must go back and practice something you have 5 crowns in, so you may get stuck practicing dates instead of future tense.
This is exactly how I responded to Health on IOS, when I was limited to my phone (computer had died): I abandoned French, where I was a new user (and the grammar rules sometimes feel arbitrary, because it's new) -- and then I couldn't get through enough lessons to meet my daily goal before running out of health. It was infuriating, and demoralizing. So I would get my goals met by doing a language I found easier/would not make as many mistakes, and did not do French AT ALL. Pretty sure that is not "Success" by any measure, but maybe Duo looks at it differently. Somehow. That I cannot fathom.
@daffodil2015 If they encourage cheating so much, I can see why people are so frustrated with it. Then it really just looks like a cash grab.
And if the practice really gets you to repeat old and simple stuff instead of the things you got wrong, that sucks too.
I guess I can count myself lucky that I don't have an iPhone.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the new system to me
Thanks for your thought out response. I can't comment on the system because I don't know it, but I miss the old system where skills used to weaken and you had to strengthen them. I would assume the health system works similar.
What do you mean by time-out. Does it only prevent you from doing new lessons, or does it keep you from practicing at all. The former would make sense, the latter would SUCK.
As for how the measure it, I would assume they look at how many new users keep using the app, how often they come back and how long they stick with the courses and what their retention/mistake rate is. If you compare that to the old numbers, I think you can get a pretty good idea of whether the new system is better or not.
I can understand how that would be frustrating for older users who are used to the old system, but let's be honest, there's always a ton of people who complain about a change and if we listened to them all the time, we'd still be living in trees.
That being said, I want to repeat that all I'm saying is hypothetical and I might join the complaining crowd once I get to see the health system, but for now, it seems like a good idea to me.
"How exactly CAN you judge the success of a mandatory feature?"
That's what A/B tests are for. Give the feature to a subset of all users and then compare the metrics for the two groups after a while. This is how Duo is working with all features.
I assume you have better data to back up this statement than what Duolingo themselves do?
@(Anythingbut)HelpfulDuo - And how exactly did you learn from your mobile users that Health is a success? You force something down people's throats and if they don't quit in droves you count it as a success? I'm asking because I am one of your mobile users and nobody ever asked me whether I want to use Health, it was just foisted on me and I really hate it, particularly when combined with the change of look that makes the font so hard to read. I said no to pretty much every not-so-subtle hint that I should sign up for Plus to escape this resounding "success". While we're at it, if it is such a successful experiment, why don't you offer it to your paying customers? Are we to understand that paying customers receive less than non-paying customers?
Well said. They seem to think that providing a worse free product would cause people to want the pay one. Instead, I'm looking for non-Duolingo options. I've had a recurring problem that I have posted about several times in every possible place, with no response (that the green/red answer banner appears right over the text box on both Android and my Kindle, and you can't move it like you used to, to check where you made a mistake). If they don't fix that, there really is no reason why I would use this product. I'm sure they will count this comment as a ringing endorsement of their product.
@dogomolo - Since I am not a Plus user, I didn't know that. I just assumed, since all the ads I get for Plus are highlighting the Shield :))
Well that's a fancy way of saying you don't give a damn about our opinions.
Despite what we are hearing here, Health is a successful experiment, which is why it is still around
....we are collecting feedback via that link in the post
But @HelpfulDuo, your comment doesn't inspire confidence that responding to your survey will have any impact on whether or not you implement this feature. If swaths of people respond to this survey saying they hate the Health feature, will you change course, or just continue ignore those who don't say what you want to hear? Because you're literally saying "despite all the negative feedback on the forums, we've declared the Health experiment a success". Given this response, I'm hard-pressed to see how submitting "formal" feedback (with my username and email address) is going to make a difference.
Since user satisfaction is apparently low on the list, please tell us what specific metrics are indicative of the Health experiment's success, so we can understand why you insist upon this feature that seems to impede learning rather than enhance it...
what specific metrics are indicative of the Health experiment's success
most likely the amount of health shields sold lol
that’s driven by dissatisfaction of the users, resorting to buying plus, thus no longer being a truely free app, as opposed to a metrics indicating satisfaction
Rubbish! Who has said this? I have only seen one comment that had positive connotations for these updates, and far more negative ones! Incidentally, please remove the awful, infuriating waving, laughing ‘Mistakes help you learn!!!!!’ Duo! There has never been a more useless, demotivating thing on any language learning app.
(As a matter of fact, the positive message was for Bots, which you removed later on.)
Admittedly, the last sentence was a genius remark of ignorance and deviousness- give your own response, but no evidence it will be listened to.
Additionally, what feedback did you get from tablet users? There isn’t a feedback section! You can see other people’s comments, but you can’t respond to them.
Excellent point. And I've been complaining about the same problem on my Kindle and Android for days, no response (the green/red answer banner now covers up the text box and you can't move it to check where you made a mistake). Have a lingot, if they don't fix that in another day or two I'm done with Duolingo.
What the?????? We web users were the backbone of your userbase for so many years, and now you're tossing us aside like wet salami? I have been using this site for 6 years 7 months, and all you have been doing is making this site worse for users like me who do not use the app at all. Health is stupid. If you call it a "successful experiment," then you don't know how to read the forums, because the way I read them, health is an "asenine concept" that you should scrap immediately. The solution to making language learning better is NOT locking people out from learning a language just because they don't get every question perfect. Half of my wrong answers are just typos from typing too fast. Imagine getting penalized for that! Also, I remember a promise 7-ish years ago about duo being "free forever" with "no ads" and "no subscription fees," which is just lying. Just plain lying. Capping XP totals from testing out has only a 13% approval rating (there was a poll), and I think I speak for most of us here when I say that Duolingo has generally been getting worse since January 19th, 2017 (the day Immersion was killed), and there is no sign of a repreive.
Props for giving us combo bonuses though.
HelpfulDuo, I am curious about the rationale behind forcing users to wait, rather than allowing them to simply retake the lesson. This obviously inhibits further study, irrespective of whether your metrics suggest it to be a "success". Coupled with the option for Plus users to opt out, it looks suspiciously like the type of "wait or pay" mechanics we see in freemium games.
From where i'm standing this looks precisely like an attempt to transition to a F2P business model that is only technically "free forever" if you are prepared to endure reduced functionality.
I am also an IOS and Android user and I know that health is not a good thing. People in my club would always complain
so, it is official. the only way duo can understand these “improvements” are not a sucess is to quit!?? :(
Honestly, "balance" seems like the wrong word. I can understand taking more into account the actual data than what people say. Honestly, really it seems like you ignore us and then guilt trip us into believing that you DO care about our opinions, which isn't true.
@HelpfulDuo - you say you are planning to "test Health on Android (on new users only, keep in mind)."
Can you define this 'new users' clause further, please? All I've heard so far has said only "Health is coming to Android!" This is the first I've heard about it being applied to new users only, aside from the italics in the header post, which I overlooked at first.
How exactly does Duolingo define 'new users' with regard to this particular topic? It may seem obvious internally, but to us, it is slightly vague. Does this mean existing Android users will not be actually have the Health system applied to them, but only those who join Duolingo after a certain date? And if so, what exactly is that date? April 1, May 15, or May 19, 2019? Or something else?
If the Health system will indeed only be applied to NEW Android users, then it won't actually affect any of the current users here (unless they leave Duolingo and then return at a later date). Explaining this point just a little more completely might have helped to prevent, or at least reduce, this uproar of comments complaining about the health system. It seems that it was almost completely overlooked in your original header post, especially in light of the gravity of the rest of the information listed there.
Thanking you in advance for the favor of a reply. :-)
Currently, the only people getting health on Android are people who created their accounts very recently (likely around last month into the future). The dates vary because it is still in testing phase (so it rolls out slowly). However, we should be clear that it does not mean that older accounts won't ever get it. Thank you for asking the question, TARDISToni, you are right, it is possible some people overlooked that. :)
Please, reconsider using the health system! It really seems like a terrible idea and I am NOT looking forward to it.
Hi BLRT200! We are running it as an experiment to see if it is successful on Android as well. Depending on the feedback we get there, we will take action, either by launching it to older users, tweak it, or reconsider it. We have to let the experiment run its course before we can make those decisions, we hope you understand. Thank you for adding your opinion to the thread!
Ever heard of selection bias? Any tests you run on the health system do not include people who hate health, because the people who hate health have long abandoned the iOS App and have moved to the web version. Your tests don't run on a representative sample.
You think there might be a little selection bias in the people ranting on this thread? lol
So if the feedback is terrible you will either take some kind of action, adjust it or think about it? It doesn't sound like Duolingo will do much when the feedback is poor.
Yeah, when h*ll freezes over they’ll pay attention.
I filled out the form but my sense of it was that they were finding out our reasons for not liking certain things — in order to try to develop better arguments to argue us out of not liking them. Or more likely, to tweak their messaging to newer users.
This is definitely not the first time that nearly every comment has strongly shown disapproval of a change or new feature, and the response has been we understand your disapproval but don't genuinely plan to do anything about it.
I belong to two excellent clubs, Italian and English. I presume I need to start saying goodbye to two groups of good friends, not to mention an excellent means of using these languages on a friendly, daily basis. What does it mean "Follow your club-friends this month"? Words simply fail me...
And 'helpful duo' is helpfully telling us to start 'following' our friends in the club this month. You know, that 'follow' mechanism that provides absolutely no way to communicate.
It seems that the the concept of 'a community' of language learners is merely competing in leagues, according to Duolingo. :(
I'm considering setting up a forum for our club. It's not difficult to do.
Zig Zag. Hmm, tis worrying. I think we should allow our founder, Max, to make any arrangements for us as he and I have worked hard to form this club. Let's see what happens. Nel frattempo...
I agree with you Linda, you and Max have worked hard but I am fearful that as a non-FB user I will still find myself without access to the club. Just in case we lose touch may I say thanks to both you and Max for all your hard work, help and your friendship and to everyone else for theirs. Gena.
Hello Linda, Zig_Zag_Wanderer and Ifphigenia,
I am sorry to hear about the loss of clubs. Perhaps you can install discord and use it as I do now with my duo friends. It took me only a few days (hours) to get used to it but now I am very happy to have the opportunity to chat with them. :-))
Completely agree with you Linda. I have club members that fought to come back to our club after they were put in a leaderboard. Clubs allow fellowship and encouragement and you still have the ability to compete against people that Are not complete strangers.
Your words sum it up. “Words simply fail me.”
Linda, based on feedback so far within our group, we are likely to set up a closed facebook group to pick up where Duolingo drops off. Your group may wish to think about the same. I don't like it, particularly since I don't use facebook, but I love the support and encouragement that we get within our group. I would hate to lose that! I wish you the very best!!
How about you make a group on any social media platform, and post the link in the club and add your friends to it, so that you all wouldn't lose what you have, cause I would be very upset to lose something very special like that tbh
Clubs are definitely a great part of Duolingo. Of course we can use forums to help us, but it's not the same. With clubs, you could at least communicate with people who were learning the same language as you were, and everyone could help each other out. I'm gonna miss them :(
Non sono felice sulla abolizione dei clubi. Scrivo un messaggio di feedback colla mia opinione:
Non sono felice dell'abolizione/rimozione dei club. Ho scritto un messaggio di feedback con la mia opinione.
I've been using Duolingo just for a month and I haven't had the opportunity to use the Clubs but they sound so great. I don't like that the people I compete with are total strangers and they change every week! They change even if you stay in the same league! I really miss communication on this platform.. I would love to practice the language I learn and discuss difficulties. So, even I haven't experienced the clubs I'm against them being shut down!
We recommend you follow your friends on Duolingo, as interesting features around your friends and followers are currently planned. More on that later! :)
Balderdash. Following people will never work as well for sharing ideas as a club.
Why wait? Tell us now.
Why take away one thing and provide the replacement only months later? Why not keep the clubs going until the new features are implemented? What's the point?
Eh no, only following 12 people and that is fine by me. I won't follow people just because YOU tell me to for your dumb new features.
Thank you Duo, I will, I am now very interested in what new features are planned?
I really wish Duolingo would tell us WHY they are getting rid of the clubs. The only reasoning I've seen so far, in a comment from HelpfulDuo above, is that Clubs "are an older feature that has some cost (to Duolingo), and are only used by a small fraction of users." This is a rather vague answer that leaves us feeling hurt, not listened to, and ultimately, angry about our clubs being taken away. A slightly more detailed explanation might help us to understand Duolingo's reasoning.
In the meantime, I am trying to be optimistic about all of this. I hope that MAYBE one of the future features will be something like the ability to join a Leaderboard group that contains our ACTUAL friends, and that's why they're telling us to follow them now. Maybe then, we'll be offered some capacity to communicate with each other. Maybe, in time, such groups may even come to resemble clubs again? They could be rebuilding them, in a different way. But, Duolingo can't tell us anything about all this until they figure out how to make it all work. This is all conjecture on my part, of course, but let's wait and see, and hope that maybe they really do have something in mind that will work even better than the existing clubs.
HelpfulDuo did tell you why, and you quoted it yourself: Clubs are only used by a small fraction of users. Duolingo tends to drop features that are only used by a small fraction of users. They’re always looking for features that will drive more usage of the app, and apparently compared to Leagues, Clubs haven’t measured up.
Android and iOS are going to get more similar: Leaderboards and Health will start rolling out to new users on the mobile platforms that did not previously have them;
I will seriously consider deleting the Android app permanently from my phone or future phones/tablets, or refuse to update it if you bring Health to Android. Many people on iOS who currently have the health system hate it and it is punishing them for learning new languages (making mistakes and making a lot of them is part of the learning process). Why do you think it is acceptable to punish users for making mistakes and prevent them from studying because of that? And why do you make people wait hours until they could study again after "running out of health"? That page where you outline the "benefits" of health is a load of nonsense and doesn't provide any true justification for bringing this system to the apps. The Health system is sort of like a punishing "tax" where people get charged for no reason, but it is there to antagonize them and make the person in power who imposed it "look good" and this is what you are doing.
The Health system is the WORST decision you could ever come up with and it will force many people to uninstall the app from both iPhone/iPad and Android devices and cause you to lose ad revenue. No one wants to use a system where they are punished for trying to learn, and this system "discourages" people from learning something new. You make me and many people on Duolingo very angry because of this decision, and ruin the experience for us. You already enraged the iOS base which is one large fraction (half I suppose) of users on Duo, and now you will enrage the other half of users who are on Android.
At least I made a .apk backup of the Duolingo app before this Health update even comes out, so I can avoid the Health update and prevent the app from updating automatically.
I will be mostly using the web/mobile site only from now on. If you bring this to the web I will quit this site entirely until you get rid of it for good.
Hi Nanase-Miyuki, sorry that you did not like the news. Have you tried the Health system yet? We'd be interested in your experience with it. You are correct that iOS and Android are the largest fractions of our users, and the feelings and reactions you are describing do not match what we are seeing on the web forums. The fact is that people like to move fast and the Health feature is encouraging people to review and learn differently, and at a calmer pace. So although we do get passionate complaints and threats around it, we also get people claiming they are learning better because of it. We hope you stick around and give it an honest try, and we'd love to hear if and how it negatively impacts your learning, and how it is doing that. Thank you for sharing your thought around the update, we hope you fill out the survey as well!
@HelpfulDuo - I have unwillingly tried the Health system. It's a complete hindrance to learning, so it's not a question of if, just a question of how. When you start learning a language, you're bound to make mistakes. Forcing a time-out on people because of those mistakes is completely detrimental to their learning, because either a. they will get discouraged and abandon the language altogether or b. they will start to see their lessons as chores. Not to mention that sometimes perfectly good answers are rejected by the system, or that sometimes Autocorrect changes the word just as you press check.
I repeat the question I asked above - if you feel this is such a great feature, why not offer it to your paying customers? Why does Duo prompt me every time to get Plus in order to get unlimited Health? If your arguments were to be true, as in Duo is doing this solely for the benefit of their users, to encourage people to learn at a calmer pace, and so on, because your data says it's better this way, then why are you depriving your paying customers of this privilege?
I am not on iOS and never tried Health but based on what I heard from users who have the Health system, they complain it is punishing them for making mistakes which means they are punished for learning languages. That is not a good way to learn and causes people to become paranoid and switch over to other language learning platforms because these platforms don't try to alienate or punish its users like what you are doing now.
and the feelings and reactions you are describing do not match what we are seeing on the web forums.
Your ignorance is very astounding and it shows you are completely deaf and blind about people's opinions in the forums and only care about what benefits you. You set a bad example of good customer service by not reading people's opinions and complaints in the forums, and not making sound decisions based on what the users want. Do you ever bother to take a look at the number of downvotes and large number of complaints from users about the Health system or any unpopular change you forced on us for once?
@Nanase-Miyuki - I think they suffer from selective blindness :))) They only see the positive comments.
I'm confused as to why you are speaking as though we are willing participants in a social experiment, and not users of a product you are promoting.
I do not want to spend time having my learning "negatively impacted" to help you collect data.
@HelpfulDuo I am an iOS user, which means for the longest time I had to waste time when I made errors: either not being able to move forward, or having to randomly practice lessons I would not have chosen, or waiting an entire day with no further practice. So please don’t say to ‘try it, you’ll like it’, or even that ‘one benefits from it’, because that is simply not true. It is not beneficial at all - it is nearly intolerable. I am even a gamer in many respects, but I did not in any way find health conducive to learning languages. I have a plus membership now to avoid the health feature - and without any doubt that is the motivation behind adding health to more platforms.
Now that I don’t have to deal with health, I can better use my time, practice what I need to, when I need to, and how I need to. The value of spaced repetition is not lost - but gained - without health. Freedom of movement is essential. We are adults - adults who are fully capable of directing our own learning, and need to be able to do so. Health only distracts and interferes in this learning process.
If you really want to help our learning process, restore the app and site to a more adult look, with more adult features like comprehensive grammar tips and notes - and, above all, keeping language communities like clubs where we make friends, communicate in our new languages, and keep us committed to learning on Duolingo. (Perhaps even take pity on iOS users and let us see our levels and XP again from the app.)
I don’t mind contributing with a Plus subscription, but I very much mind how you’re taken the focus off grammar skills with the new trees, and taking clubs away now too...it’s heartbreaking. Lately I wonder what else might be out there instead of Duolingo. That’s how it’s been for me - someone who couldn’t have been more crazy in love with this app just months ago. So I wouldn’t call me an iOS success story, would you?
@ResaRoxanne - I agree completely. Just because an iOS user finds a way of living with the health system does not mean they like it or feel they are benefiting from it. It would be different if health was on review lessons where you have already learned something, like it used to be. But it is now, as someone else said, a system where if a child answers a question incorrectly in class, they are banned from the classroom for several hours.
It would be great if you can add Slovak for english speakers. I already volunteered to help.
What do you guys mean by "leaderboards are coming soon to the web"? Do you mean "soon" as in a couple of days or "soon" as in a couple of months?
After finishing the Hebrew tree twice, and being very optimistic about finishing the Spanish tree, this is a huge horror and disappointment.
If they seriously implement the health system, I'll be getting rid of Duolingo and re-rating it from five starts to one star.
Free language app? I KNEW it wouldn't last.
Besides, Im part of a very active friendly club. I didn't understand what you meant, but if you mean to say that you're getting rid of that as well, bye Felicia. You were good while you lasted.
It's nice to hear that Duolingo is now CEFR aligned! I was wondering if Duolingo might consider allowing to retake the checkpoint tests? I feel like they are a very useful way to practice the grammar and vocab of an entire section. Of course, you can practice each tile separately, or use the general 'practice' button. But I feel it would be very useful to be able to go back to every checkpoint to retake the test and check you still understand everything that came above it, without having to redo each tile!
Somebody in our fantastic Spanish club created a new dummy account. He had a look at the leaderboards. It is something about 5 different levels with a system that nobody above 21 years can understand, unless he is a gamer. Well all in our club agree that this does not enhance our progress at all. But the interaction with human beings, not gaming robots, the information , the cultural exchange and last but not least the corrections we get from native speakers.. how is that not an important part of learning?
In case you haven't seen it. Here is my petition https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31865858/Save-our-clubs.
I’m well over 21, not a gamer, and understand the league system. Although I agree with you that clubs are much better.
Where can we find the XP levels now? Were they moved somewhere else or did you get rid of them completely?
Terrible update. Removing clubs is awful. I am hereby sacrificing my 377 day streak in protest and ceasing to use Duolingo. Goodbye.
I just want to let people know, there are clubs for most/many of the Duolingo languages on Facebook. I'm in the Facebook Duolingo Hebrew learners group, and with the clubs closing I've also joined two Hebrew groups (They have other languages too) on Discord. To join the Hebrew groups, (There are others, I've yet to check them out however):
They're set up much better than Duolingo clubs - different areas for beginner, intermediate, advanced, native, help, exercises, music, etc.
On May 19, Duolingo will kick everyone from clubs, remove the entire option, then replace it with a Leaderboard Competition.
Duolingo wants to remove clubs because thanks to the maliciously malicious friends of ignoble Yogesh, Duolingo can only put one special feature at the same time.
Duolingo chose Leaderboard Competition because it is a much more lucrative option. Why, you ask? In leaderboard competition, everyone must frantically do lessons (now the only viable option to earn XP) and every time you finish a lesson, you must watch an ad. And sometimes when an ad comes out, they trick you by replacing the X option with "Go Ad Free" and you unwittingly "went premium".
Duolingo wants more money for themselves and their fellow advertising mates, face it.
Please consider adding your voice to the survey at the end of the post, this will ensure that you also get heard, in addition to those you are speaking for.
How stupid do you think we are, dude? You haven't been listening to our opinions in the forums, what makes you think we'll believe that the survey will make a difference?
How about you actually do something about it? No offense but I seriously don't think surveys are going to solve anything if you won't do anything helpful for the users either way
>in addition to those you are speaking for
>mfw Shadi2005 has 61 uvs and you have -26
Why isn't there any combo bonus on the website? It kind of makes it obligatory to study only on the phone...
Is iPhone ever going to get the weekend amulet/the costumes that android has? I want the cape, please!
Hooray, Duo! Thanks for listening to 0.001% of the audience and replacing Clubs and lingots with maliciously dumb health and leaderboards and gems
Really enjoying the changes to the French course, both in terms of effective learning and motivation. Looking forward to seeing similar changes in German and Italian. Thanks for all the good work.
I loved this announcement. I really hope that Icelandic will be the next language!
Okay, seems like it is new today, so here's some feedback: I HATE the new 'correct questions in a row' feature. I have it for one lesson, and it stressed me so much because I didn't want to make a mistake because I didn't want the counter to reset. Also, I don't want extra xp because of this anxiety-inducing feature, that ends up filling in my daily practice requirement faster. I want to have to complete 5 lessons every day, even if I answer all questions correctly on some of them. But, I don't want to be all negative about this, so I will end my comment on the following note: Maybe I'll eventually get used to it. Or maybe, I'll quit Duolingo over it.
PS: I won't be practicing today because of this thing. Also, listen to your users about the clubs, or you may see your profits drop considerably.
The worst part, unfortunately is that I am on a web browser, on my computer. They rolled this feature out for all platforms at once I think, or at least to a good chunk of their users.
This is the best language system out there, free or paid. I love Duo. While I use others, I still do a bulk of vocabulary and sentence structure familiarity form Duo. As a native English speaker, most foreign languages sound backwards to me. And the Duo system makes the differences between English and my target language flow really well, that I don't struggle with word order as much ,
I hope that make sense.
This is a general question but I can't seem to find an answer: Will there be more owl outfits? I keep gathering lingots and there's nothing I can do with them :( Duo makes me so happy during my excercises, I'd love more outfits for him?
Since these updates my screen are not loading properly. The word banks don't display. When asked to select the correct meaning of a sentence the options don't load. I can't move forward. It seems like the resolution is no longer working. PLEASE Can someone help?? I have submitted bug reports and nothing is changing. I really want to move forward.
Please bring back Duo clubs. I have lost my Duo friends now, and cannot communicate with them in French through Duo. We used to have daily conversations in the English-French club.
Would like to opt out of leagues and return to clubs. I appreciate the community of people ( in the clubs) learning and supporting each other in the language they are learning.
Avez-vous la version française ? Et comment cha'ger une langue ? Je n'arrive pas à changer l'apprentissage du portugais avec le russe. D'avance merci pour votre aide. Au sujet des clubs vous vouliez dire que les clubs ou ligues seront fermées ?
under the country flag of the language that you are learning, look for "add a new course". Click on that. And then follow instructions. It may be slightly different depending on the device you are using, web, android or iPhone.... You need to change "the language that I am speaking" or some similar description in the language that your currently "speaking". Then you will see a whole new set of choices. I answered in English, since this is an English discussion.
Hi Duo. Can you explain what the bonus XP for combos is? I have just noticed that on my progress bar, while doing a lesson, it will change colors and tell me how many questions in a row I have answered, and then the amount of XP seems to be changing when I finish a lesson. This is new to me, and I have no idea what it's about.
What is planned around the progress bar? What is bonus XP? Does this mean health is also coming to the desktop version of Duo? Please, do tell....
It's funny. Having taken a look at the posts here, if Duo's existence depended on some elections, they would have been out of business ...
Wait a second. Why can't Duolingo just add forums to the app version? I mean, I know people can access it from the Safari browser on their phone, but (in my opinion) it's really weird accessing it from there. So why doesn't Duolingo add forums to the app? It'd be great (as long as they don't replace clubs)! I mean, we could all use our phones to communicate with each other, and we don't have to worry about the browser from our phone asking us to download the app, and -
Oh wait. How silly of me! I totally forgot:
Duolingo doesn't give a crap about our issues or suggestions anymore, does it?
Why can't Duolingo just add forums to the app version?
Mobile screens are smaller so everything shown in the mobile screen should be considered more carefully compared to desktop screens. Accessing forums is not also very effective method to learn anything (it eats your time). I don't see any reason why that icon would appear there.
Please bring back the clubs!!!! Duolingo is SO MUCH LESS FUN without them!
Bring back Clubs please, Duolingo.
Seriously though, how is studying a lot 'binging' a language?
I was in the sapphire league and the reward for winning went from 400 to 3000 gems. Having had a couple of 2nds and a 3rd getting promoted before I thought i would try and top the league this time. Managed to do that with 2600xp I thought great 3000 gems. When I got the gems it said you’ve won 3000 but only added on 700. Did any one else get this to?.
多邻国，我好感谢你的努力，和你的开发者的努力. 我明白你不是人，你是机器和AI驱动的，为了个性化我的学习，你使用神经网络来学习我们如何学习外语。那，你继续提高自己吧，收集所有的数据，和天天向上哦！hee! I still like you 3 weeks in!
I have an error i German Stories chapter four. Even if I finish Neuer lebensplan part 2 can I not go further? Anyone can help me?
You are probably asking this question in the wrong place. Why don't you start a new discussion with your question so that somebody with pertinent knowledge can help you. I just checked for you though. I suspect that you did not finish all stories in Set 3. Lebensplan begins in Set 3 and ends in Set 4, but you cannot start new stories in Set 4 until you have finished all stories in Set 3.
what happened to the picture options for tinycards? i used to be able to upload pictures from the web through the app and now i can't.
Non è il proprio posto per questa domanda. Comincia una nuova discussione in italiano.
Don't worry about the clubs and the points- just focus on your learning. The program has its faults but it also has many benefits- one of them being 'free'.
One of Duolingo's most important benefits was clubs. Depending on what club you were in, you could learn a lot from the other members.
With the way Duolingo teaches, it wouldn't be possible. If you want to learn it you should look else where. There are some decks on Tinycards, though I know those won't get you very far.
I only use android and the web, what's so bad about the health system? It sounds sensible to me.
The health system penalizes you for making mistakes. This is detrimental to learning. How do you learn a language without making mistakes? It might be okay for more advanced learners, but not people who are just starting out.
It also isn't ok for learners further along in the tree. I do a lot of experimentation to see what is acceptable, and what isn't. I almost always know the answer when I am wrong, and then I know what I can and cannot do afterwards.
I also like using different vocabulary that may be synonyms with the word it wants, just to see if they work. Most of the time they don't.
Yes, I like trying different words with similar meanings, instead of repeating the same words or phrases over and over again. Health meter means trying to move beyond rote to use prior vocabulary gets me punished. Really not enjoyable at all! :(
Not only that but it also slows down the development of the courses. I often try to find more "exotic" solutions to see if the coursmakers have thought of them, to see if they are already in the database, and if not, I would report them so they could be added. Health would completely discourage such behaviour. Health would make me give Duo what I think he wants to hear and the courses would stop improving or at least be slowed down considerably.
When you get a question wrong, you end up losing a heart. If you lose all five hearts, you can't continue with the lesson, have to wait 3-5 hours for EACH HEART TO BE REFILLED, and have to start the lesson over again. FROM. THE. BEGINNING.
I actually found out about the problems people were having with it today, and I came to realize how bad it was.
Why do you steal people's streak thieves. You made me lose a 500 day streak and now a 268 day streak although i had been equipped with a streak freeze amulet both times you ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. I tried really hard to get this far and you humiliate me like that, because you want to make some ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ money by making me buy your crappy Duolingo PLUS app. I hate you. I will spread this to everywhere if you dont give me back my day streak. Filthy thieves...
Thank you Helpful Duo. This is all very good information. I wonder, though, why so many people spend an incredible amount of time writing negative feedback instead of using their time learning a foreign language. It would be a good practice for everyone to write their complaints in a foreign language.
... crowns show how much of a course you have completed, while levels only show how much time you have put in (they could all be grinding the same few introductory skills, not really progressing anywhere).
No they don’t. Are you completely unaware of the xp cap changes, and of the fact no one in their right mind would grind the same lesson up to 3,000 times for a level 25? Don’t be ridiculous.