Save our clubs-2, a petition
As a follow-up to the post here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31865858
I created a petition. Our goal is 1000 signatures. If you think that clubs is important and useful for your language learning program with Duolingo, please sign and spread the word.
I love the rhyme, in the comments -
Clubs are super,
Clubs are great.
Getting rid of clubs I hate.
Clubs are useful,
Clubs are swell.
Not having any clubs is Hell.
Duo, now you've made a lot of,
Choices you could better hone.
Give us clubs back or we'll sod off,
Back to use Rosetta Stone.
Hi. Rest assured, many many signatures have been added and sent. Your plea is felt by all who love their clubs. Best wishes to you.....
Signing it right now and passing it along. Thank you so much, Stergi3! Sending a lingot your way!
Signed! I really hope the clubs stay. Thanks for setting the petition up!
I also don't want clubs to be gone. It's so much fun to be in one. I'm signing it now. I hope that the clubs will be left
Update: More than 1800 signatures so far and almost 900 positive comments. Let's get the goal of 2000 now. Sign the petition and share the link to your clubs:
For better results tag your friends like this: @name
Spread the word, before it is too late!
And how and when are you intending to communicate the results of the petition to those in Duolingo that are responsible for making this decision?
Do you have any contacts or are you expecting them to read this? Are you going to email to support link (and hope they do not just ignore)
Assuming you have some legit contacts, when are you going to present it. If you are going to do it? I am assuming that you are going to do it before the clubs disappear on 19th. They probably will not see the message on weekend so you should probably do it no later than Friday, earlier the better.
I am very skeptical that 2000 signatures out of millions of users of Duolingo will even rise up to the consideration of those with power in Duolingo.
Luis in the past has declared that his worst mistake was listening to users:
14. What's the worst piece of advice you ever got?
I don’t know if it's bad universally, or if it was just bad for me. When you’re building a product, typical advice is listen to what your users are saying. I have found that is terrible advice for Duolingo. The spirit of the advice is good, but a lot of times, there is a problem that arises. If the feedback channels are such that that only a few users get to talk to you, you are only hearing the loudest ones, not all of them, and that is where it breaks down.
We have a forum on our website where people can talk about language, but they often ask about features.
I have found that listening to people in the forums is a terrible idea.For example, we redesigned the website a few years ago,and people in the forum were saying how terrible it was. Hundreds of posts about how this was the worst decision we had ever made. All the while we were looking at the metrics for the new website, and they were significantly better.
If you are just listening to the people who reach out to you, than that is a biased sample of people who are a loud minority. Of course that is not always the case, but unless you know what you are doing, you should watch out for that bias.
Thanks for your post!
This petition has never intended to replace the survey raised by Duolingo. I posted the link https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31865858 in my initial post, where it was put to vote as well. I voted as well. So as everybody can view the link and post to Duolingo. This poll has one purpose, to record how many people think that the clubs are part of their life and want them back. There are about 2000 so far and about 900 positive comments. If you take a look at the comments in this poll, many learners feel like orphans without their friends and, if you visit my clubs, you can see how deeply sorry are because of this loss. Some others propose alternative platforms, but all these are outside Duolingo.
We have to realize that, since you build a bridge, it is much worse to destroy it after, better never built it! In my Italian from Spanish club I almost cried as people were saying goodbye to their friends and maybe they will never "speak" to them again. People who never met face to face! Clubs were very important for many people, people who are lonely, who were feeling the need to say a good morning to their peer learners or to confess they had a family problem, they were sick that day or they were very busy to practice. You see, this is a small community of friends, more than a huge world like this forum. Some people are shy enough to say their problem here, a club is like a neighborhood, we "knew" each other, we were learning together for months, even for years. This is the social part of Duolingo. It is like a Facebook inside Duolingo. Is it costly? Maybe, but you cannot shut down a Facebook, just like that!
Anyway, I don't know about Duolingo business plan. I have some friends in my clubs and I thought that I owed to do something for them. So I did it.
About where I can publish the result. It is very simple: I can publish it here. I can publish it to Forums in Facebook and other social media I am a member. I could send emails too. Maybe Duolingo doesn't read anything. But if you google "Save Duolingo clubs" you can find it. And for me, it is enough. I owed to my friends in my clubs.
Thank you for all your dedicated work @Stergi3. None of this would have happened without you. Especially the starting of the petition.
Thanks @avitatter! We were not in the same club, but you helped to disseminate this campaign as an old friend. I owe you a lot. Nothing could be happened if there were so warm club fans like you. You, Anon, Guillaume and some others others deserve a big hug, but since I have a lot of lingots I earned for almost 3 years using Duolingo, this is something I can give you in exchange. It is strange, but we are a real big community now! I am not against any improvements in Duolingo, but I support warmly the social character of language learning.
I share your feelings regarding the clubs. I'm just a skeptic of what a petition of 2000 signers could do. If it was 1% of users or even 0.1% of all. That is more than 10 times of signers you currently have. It hardly makes a case at this level.
I really would loved to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, Duo is one of the few organizations that ignore actual feedback from user its user base. Everything is reduced to clicks.
They will probably say that after clubs are removed users are doing more classes because they do not have to waste time on the club or something like that. They are not able to evaluate pedagogical value of such interactions in the club. It is not in their metrics.
I am not going to be involved with their stupid leagues. That adds 0 to my learning. I will do my classes on my own pace and for my trees that are at L5, I will just refresh those units that are less than 100% strength. I was actually trying to get 250 XP for that tree due to the rules of my club.
Me too! I cannot crunch thousands of XPs in a day, I cannot learn like this, nor I have the time. But: It is really a step backwards. I am a teacher, and since this is an educational application, it should be based on pedagogical principles. Skinner learning machines were just stupid machines, they were very popular in '60s, but they are outdated now. Instead LMS and smart apps that have in mind the learner mostly and the interaction between learners and machine are more efficient. I cannot learn a language by crunching XPs, I am not a child to absorb like a sponge. I need to ask, to interact, to think before learning something. Maybe clubs needed a brave and bold reform, but they were a good idea. I was using Duolingo before clubs. I started using them to help learners learn my native language first, and then I realised that many learners wanted to express themselves in dialogues with small phrases, even using Google translation, or writing something simple like a goodnight and "my name is". It is a kind of freedom of expression. So I decided to make more and try to motivate learners with contests organized every week an keep records. I was removing inactive members asking from them just one XP, no more each week. Admins should be real moderators, and they are many. So clubs should be reformed, it was much better having clubs of learners having common interests or coming from the same country or city.
About this petition: I tried a lot to support it. I noticed that a lot of learners don't know anything about the new changes! Just a few friends helped me, we met by chance in this common goal. It is a false image to say that just 2000 support clubs. Most people say they agree, but they don't sign, it is considered an effort without any result to Duolingo. I am not a fatalist. I saw about 700 upvotes in the initial "Save the clubs" post and I thought I could support it more with a petition: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31865858 People want clubs if you ask my opinion about.
@Stergi3 - I have signed this and will also post the link in our club. Thank you for setting this up.
Thank you too! I hope that we are many. Post the link to your clubs, please! Here is a text to write:
Please save the clubs! Sign here:
Give our clubs a chance!
79 signed so far, and counting! Sign, please! Clubs are important for our learning!
98 so far and counting. Please save the clubs! Sign here:https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/please-save-duolingo-clubs
Clubs is a part of Duolingo, they should be!
106 so far and counting. Please save the clubs! Sign here: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/please-save-duolingo-clubs Clubs need a chance!
If you respond to the petition please also respond to the survey in the original thread.
It is not clear if Duo will pay any attention to that petition at all, so IMHO response to their own survey is more likely to yield results.
Please respond to the survey, and select the leagues as the worst feature announcement and put a few words on why you think it is bad (for example, leagues lack the interactive group experience of the club)
Here is the Duolingo survey link replicated for your convenience:
Update: we are more than 2000 now, we caught the goal of 2000! And about 1000 positive comments. I try hard to disseminate the petition. Please help us! We can get 2500 if we try. Most people are very sad because there are just 3 days left. It is hard to lose your friends.
Tag your friends in your clubs writing @name i.e. @Stergi3, to take a pm from you. Or whatever way you find better. An idea: Can you make a slighshow video?
There are a lot of positive vibes from all friends to us! Keep on!
Invaluable part of learning a language especially with tips, suggestions, and sharing of knowledge and/or websites
Yes, clubs could be improved. But not got removed! Clubs is like a language learning Group in a social platform, as Facebook. But inside Duolingo. It is really pity that Duolingo abandoned social learning, because Leaderboard is just a list, nothing more! Moreover, Leaderboard is cannot exclude clubs existence, they are different and not incompatible. I can have a Leaderboard in duome.eu after all.
More than everything I am touched by the comments there. People who want their friends back. It is so important, that overcomes Duolingo, it is human relationship, that Duolingo built and she wants to take it back now. :'( Just read the comments and, if you aren't touched, don't sign. I didn't expect that some people, not many, but enough to touch someone, are so strong clubs fans. Really!
They are more than 400 now! They are not many but they are passionate club fans!
Thanks for the petition Stergi3!
My girlfriend and I have our own French and Italian clubs and we write each other silly stories every day. It's us against the owl + lots of bants. It makes us eager to open the app and enjoy languages! In our chinese club, our chinese teacher helps us out; In the Spanish, stronger learners direct the novices, i.e. me LOL! It makes Duolingo fun and friendly! I've always learnt languages by making others laugh. Please don't take our CLUBS away DUO!
Clubs are a very good way for me to keep up the competition and know what others are doing. Let's save them. I'm with you @Stergi3
Thanks Omkar! We are friends for a long time. Duolingo cannot do it to our club. Cannot do it to friends!
There are 620 signatures so far. We can make it, to reach the goal of 1000. With your help. Write to your club the following text:
Duolingo is going to suspend all clubs after May 20th! Please save the clubs! Sign here:
Give our clubs a chance! Spread the word!
867 signatures so far. 133 to go. 1000 is a minimum goal. Please spread the word!
Save the Clubs!
Sign the petition: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/please-save-duolingo-clubs
Someone shared your petition with me and i shared it on my other clubs. Let's hope it snowballs. Viva el clubes! ✊
Good news about the petition! The signatures collected do far are more than 1150 and more than 500 comments! I think we can reach the next goal, 1500 soon, and further.
Please spread the word:
Save the clubs!
Leave a comment and upvote here:
or on this very post: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31967526 to keep it up on the Forum's posts.
Update: A final account of the campaign was made here https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32209661
We will continue to collect signatures until May 19th and eventually close with the final number of signatures that I hope will reach the final number of 2500. Thank you very much for your participation and support. Whatever happens in the end, we tried. For our friends!
Thanks Guillaume, you are a real club fan and old friend It is really very hard if we are getting lost since Clubs suspended.
Thanks all who took the task to spread the word to all clubs.
Just a message like this from all who want clubs to stay in Duolingo is enough. Like this: Duolingo is going to suspend all clubs after May 20th! "Please save the clubs! Sign here:
Give our clubs a chance
Spread the word!"
You can tag all members to take a message. Maybe we can save our clubs.
I agree, clubs are great, but if we created a petition for every thing that Duo did that we don't like, the forums would be nothing more than a bunch of forums.
Please kill the pointless club!! Kill the club!! Kill the club!! Kill the club!! Upvote me!! Give me lingot!!1
dude/dudette, you got down voted by three little snowflakes. A petition of what, 1000 signatures? Duo has 300 MILLION users. And these signers think everyone in corporate thought, "gee, we gave them clubs because the socialization is good, and now we will kill them because.....we executives are stupid and bad people". Social interaction is great, but Clubs is a stupid and unsustainable compartmentalization. Ridiculous. I up vote you +1
Should I make a petition having a goal of 300 million votes? I wrote before. Maybe just a few take care. Is it something forbidden to express? You don't answer to a simple question: do you believe that social learning is promoted with or without clubs.
Concerning me I need it. Duolingo created clubs for some reason, that I suspect it is the social learning dimension. Now they changed their mind. What is there for social interaction out there? I really don't know. Do you? Thanks for the upvote.