I like the new accuracy incentive. I don't like the implementation
As far as I can tell, in the latest A/B test, you get up to 5 extra xp per lesson if you are more accurate. I can say that this has motivated me to be more accurate. Not because I crave the extra XP, but because I like the feedback.
The number of points you get seems to depend only on the last streak of correct answers in the lesson. Get 19 right and blow the last answer and you are down to 1 point. Get 10 wrong at the beginning and then get 20 in a row after that right to finish with a good ending streak and you get more.
Surely, duo can do something even the tiniest more sophisticated. I can see all kinds of arguments for basing the extra xp on the ending streak (did the lesson finally sink in?) but to me they would sound like hindsight justification for a bad design.
I personally don't care about this, and would rather just get my 10 XP per lesson. My goal is a minimum of 5 lessons a day, not 50 XP, but XP is the way they have set up to judge if you are doing language learning. The way mine is set up, 5 lessons - 50XP no worries. With additional XP it is possible to finish 50 XP in 4 trips. I don't want it. I don't care about XP.
Thankfully, the way it is set up, if this streak thing ever comes to the iOS app, I can intentionally fail a question towards the end of my lesson and get less "bonus" XP because of it.
Also, I think it promotes negative learning. The XP shouldn't be a reward. It is more valuable to get things wrong through experimentation and trying to figure out natural ways to say things, rather than just rote memorization. Without getting things wrong, it is hard to learn properly. I would rather be able to experiment and see what I am capable of doing, instead of feeling like I am forced to get things right every time. I would rather try word order that I know isn't optimal, just to see if it is potentially acceptable.
I love your comment, too. I agree that when I am learning a language...a skill I will have to use on the spur of the moment, without referring to notes and without much negative effect if it's not exactly perfect, my brain operates in a much different way than, say, when I am preparing and dispensing meds as a nurse. Some people may need more incentive to pay attention, focus and apply their brain, but for me it's more important in learning languages that I actually TRY and see what my brain actually knows than obsess and get it right all the time.
Fortunately, I don't have the "health" program so don't get penalized for wrong answers. I often don't even use the hints if I'm not sure because I know I won't have them right there when I am reading or listening to the language in real life. LOL. It is amazing what our brains do pick up and learn ...and retain. I would never know (and I would be a nervous wreck and soon give up learning languages) if it were a matter of life or death to get every question exactly right the first time. I learn so SO much more from the ones I get wrong, actually!
I agree, the streak is flawed. 19 in a row is still 19 in a row. When I'm on my last question and I choke on it, it's so irritating now. It's almost like it made learning not as fun since part of my "reward" is knowing what I did wasn't good enough. I think it should be a mistake-free lesson to get the added XP, or else nothing at all. I don't want to be mad after every lesson because of it.
although if it is a mistake free lesson, if you fat finger the wrong answer (i know i have) then you get no xp to meet your streak. Instead, i think they should make it so that the max streak determines the xp gained by some math formula or some sh**
So you get punished as well when Duolingo won't accept a correct answer. I've had over 30 of my "suggestions" now accepted as correct translations already this year. That would have been over 30 lost streaks.
I don't like the incentive - I think it is an incentive for the wrong thing. It happens pretty often that I don't know a word, and usually, I don't look it up (or I do look it up) or make a guess, but leave the answer blank. In that way, the sentence will come back again, giving me the opportunity to repeat it another time. Which is, I think, good for my vocabulary.
But now, every time I deliberately mess up, I hesitate because of this streak being lost.
Furthermore, I also like to count how many lessons I did. That also became harder (the graph is gone too, and the new percentage rather than number of lessons done does not help either).
Hearing about losing streaks and gaining streak of five to a thousand days is bad enough, now we have to contend with a streak within a streak. Even Snapchat has streaks. I got enough problems with streaks on my windshield, windscreen to you Brits.
I think it should give you points for the longest streak you achieved during a lesson.
The downside to this is that before if you missed a question, you just re-did it. Now after 19 straight, I find myself hovering over the words to get a hint so that it doesn't blow the streak. IMO, that is counter productive. I'd rather take a guess, get it wrong, and re-do.
That's what I do. I enjoy the extra XP if I do get it right, but I don't care if I don't get the extra XP.
I love seeing if I would have got it right even if I am not sure. I often surprise myself!
My own learning takes priority over any streaks or XP or whatever.
Happy learning! :-)
Have you considered filing a bug report? I wonder if their algorithm would change if enough of us file bugs (I agree with you that the logic is unfortunate).
Matthew. Totally agree with you. The new system is motivating/forcing us to submit more accurate answers with fewer typos....I like it. (but DL need to reconsider how these bonus points are awarded - as you say).
Well, I just lost my 152 day streak. Not the first time for the same reason. I think I did a day on my cell without wifi connection. I like the streak for one reason only, knowing how long I have been at it. XP Points are like giving stickers to children, they don't have any real value unless you are in competition on a leader board. I must admit, I have been encouraged to do more because of that but don't have any need to "win". If we were given lingots and more that could be purchased with them that would be an incentive.
It’s funny that you mention the XPs being like stickers for children as I literally only look at them or the leader board to see if my kid has done her Duolingo on days when she does her lessons on her own or upstairs in her room.
I wouldn't love the ending streak either though because Duo repeats the same questions until you get them right - it's not a meaningful 'streak' if I'd got every question wrong first time but got them all right at the end because I've merely remembered the answers I'd seen a minute ago. What about a streak for every question right first time?
I miss the hearts system so if I'm getting too many questions wrong I quit the lesson and come back to it in a few hours, and I think it helps things really sink in. Anyway I'm personally not that motivated by how much xp I get in a day, but I'd support a better implemented streak bonus if it works for other people.
Good point! I have thought that too (about just getting them all wrong and memorizing so as to get the full streak). That's why I just don't pay much attention to it anymore. If I happen to get a bonus then it's, well, a bonus.
I'm glad that this new feature is encouraging for plenty of learners out there. It would be nice, though, if it was one of those optional features you can buy with lingots like "timed practice" and "double or nothing." That way people who find the extra points motivate them to slow down and focus on accuracy can get rewarded for taking that step and people who find wrong answers help them remember right answers don't feel pressured to sweat over streaks. That would be a lot simpler than trying to make the site one-strategy-fits-all. Also, if they re-launch it as a shop option, maybe they could update it so it doesn't feel so off. Longest streak would be a great model. I can't count the number of times I've missed an answer I totally knew because I made too big of a typo in an English translation.
The implementation being based on your last streak might have to do with how to implement the interface simply: Duolingo just has to show you one number "how long is your current streak."
If Duolingo based it on your longest streak overall in the lesson, they would have to indicate two numbers: what your longest streak was, and where you are in your current streak.
I treat the combo points, which are new to me (web browser) as a fun bonus, but I do my best to ignore the progress bar during the lesson. Trying to hit a streak just makes me tense.
I figure that I was doing just fine feeling rewarded by 10 points per lesson before the combo bonus appeared. Now that the combo bonus has appeared, to me it's just free points, nothing to do with me deserving anything more than I did before it appeared.
My first thought was, "Oh, a new way to fail!" (RE: the bonus point streaks). Now it's just another psychological test to help me realize what is important and what is not. This song keeps going through my mind in RE: the bonus points I might have but lose, "I got along without you before I met ya, gonna get along without ya now.". If I get bonus points, GREAT. But I don't let my self esteem or mood be affected by them. They are a BONUS.
BTW, I am realizing more and more the vast psychological research potential for DL. The psych researcher in me is reeling at all the possibilities! LOL.
alpha3099's comment agrees w/ my thoughts on this--I'd just as well do w/o this, as things were just fine, thanks. But it can be adjusted to, of course.
Given that this is what Duo is doing (for now), I'm 100% in agreement w/ you. Probably all Duo programmers would need do is keep a "high-water mark" along with the current questions' streak for each lesson, and use it
Like alpha3099 I only really care about the 10 XP per lesson, anything above that is just extra, but then I also didn't realise you get more bonus points the more you get right. I don't think knowing that's how it works will work as a motivator or de-motivator, though, as it's the 10 XP per lesson that counts.
I'm glad I'm using iOS, whew. I really hope they don't implement it on iOS, I already have so much pressure just checking the leaderboards or watching my health points. :( Any more pressure will be too much for me.
xp awarded based on percent of correct answers per lesson - but that is against the idea that the award is based on the number correct in a row - some blend of the two perhaps
I feel more pressure with the new streak set up. Also, I would rather know how many questions I have left rather than the percentage left.
I feel like the system is inverted. This gives the greatest rewards to people who practice things they already know very well.
In my opinion, I'd rather Duolingo "pay out" more for someone who got answers wrong but still finished the lesson. They stuck with something that was new/uncomfortable until they finished. If they implemented a system where people got more points for new content, exercises the user previously struggled with, and things that have not been reviewed for a long time, I feel the app would have more of a focus on Learning a Language rather than scoring points.