Norwegian Tree 4: Official Feedback Thread
Welcome to the official feedback thread for our new course!
If you haven’t read the Overview and F.A.Q. post yet, you can find it here: Yes, here!
While all feedback is welcome, we’re especially interested in feedback on…
Are things moving along smoothly? Do new skills build well on previously learned content? Are any grammar concepts introduced too late or too early? Do you ever feel like you’re just hitting a wall, and is there anything specific you think we could do to avoid that?
Tips & Notes
There is plenty of new Tips & Notes content for Tree 4, which hasn't been as thoroughly proofread as I'd like yet. If you have a particular topic that you'd like to see covered in the tips, we're open to suggestions as well.
There are a lot of things going on with image exercises right now, all of which may impact your learning experience.
Duolingo has changed which image exercises may appear next to each other, which means that the format we followed to avoid having two identical images show up next to each other no longer does the job. If you ever get an image exercise that shows the same illustration twice, please let me know the names of the the two words that illustration was shown for so that I can sort that out. An example would be if you were shown four image cards, and the illustration of a cat was used once for "en katt" and once for "et dyr" within that same set of images.
Duolingo has also replaced all the old illustrations with new ones, which means that some don't fit as well as they used to - or indeed at all. I think I've caught most of the ones that are now a complete mismatch, but there may be more around. An example of this, following the feline theme, is that the old illustration of a cat had a quite prominent tail, which meant that it lent it self nicely to illustrating the word "en hale" as well. However, the new cat illustration only shows the head of a cat.
While Duolingo mostly provides illustrations for concrete nouns, I’ve experimented with adding image exercises for adjectives, verbs, and abstract concepts. The idea is that it’s better to get an image that is somewhat related, than no image associated with the new word at all, but I’d like to know how it impacts your learning, be it positively or negatively.
Examples of new image exercise pairings:
|hva (what)||question mark|
If you find missing translations in image exercises, you can also report those here. I’ve tried to be thorough, but I’m human. :)
Missing translations for text-based exercises are best reported through the report function. If you’re unsure about what and how to report, you can consult this guide: Reporting 101
What We Can't Help
Please note that there are some things that are out of our control. We can't fix the audio. We can’t add features like stories, the words tab, or those fancy new tips with pictures and hover hints in them. We also don’t decide if sentences appear at a certain crown level or how often they’re repeated, nor how many exercises you get per lesson or which type they are. We’re working with what we’ve got!
If you encounter any UI bugs or other technical issues, you can report those here: https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Thank you in advance for all your help! Norwegian learners are the best learners. <3
We finally have rows with three skills, YES! Of course it's a really minor thing, but it makes the tree look a lot more interesting imo.
Also, ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-TWO SKILLS jeebus crust that's massive.
I'm so excited for this!
Thank you for all of your hard work! I just started the course a few weeks ago and can't help but be amazed by how well-made it is! Good work!
Thanks for the update! I love learning Norwegian, although my one problem is, currently, I'm working on the Location and Possessive skills, but Duolingo is introducing words really fast, and I'm not able to absorb all the words that are getting thrown at me. It would be really nice if the new words would show up at a slower rate. Tusen takk!
I don't think you have the new tree yet, but I can answer on a general basis. People learn at individual speeds, so to some degree this is something you'll have to self-regulate by doing more practice rounds or taking the skills up to higher crown levels.
Duolingo wrote a blog post on the hovering method of studying, which might interest you: https://making.duolingo.com/whats-the-best-way-to-learn-with-duolingo
Personally, I'm a fan of putting things down on paper; simply writing the words down helps cement them in your memory, and if you can say them out loud at the same time and try to think of a context, image, or memory to attach them to, that's even better.
Sometimes, things just take a while to click, and that's completely normal. Most words do pop up again later in the tree, as we use them in new sentences, so you will get to review them.
Yeah, I write things down, and it really helps. I'm not a great learner, which is why I've never learned a language before. Mange takk for all you've done!
Bare hyggelig, Caroline!
Learning is a skill like any other; as long as you keep working on it you will keep improving. Not only do we learn better methods and get better routines, but our brains adapt and evolve.
You've got this! :)
I’m not sure how much of the Norwegian course is on TinyCards, but I’ve found that using it to learn vocabulary in the Welsh course for instance is a huuuuge help. Sometimes I’ll even do a Tinycards deck before actually starting a unit, so that when I do start it the vocabulary is already familiar, and I can focus on getting the grammar and spelling right. Highly recommend.
I got lucky and I'm in the 50% of old learners using it now! I love. LOVE. the new tips and notes writeups. They're incredibly useful and interesting to read through and are much more informative than the old ones. It's clear y'all have put a lot of work into this new tree and I'm a big fan of it.
Glad to hear that, thank you! I'm a little burnt out on Tips & Notes at the moment, but I'm planning to add some more once everyone's moved to the new tree.
Will there be a way to "turn off" images? Or a box to deselect for image exercises? I'm sure everyone's worked very hard on these images, and that'll be great for people who learn faster/easier that way. We're not all the same though, and not only will this be pointless for me (I have aphantasia), it will likely be confusing. Especially with abstract concepts. I can "see" it now..."since when does skarp mean knife"?! Or something like that.
That's a decision way above my pay grade, but I do agree that it would be nice to be able to toggle any exercise type on and off, like we currently can for listening and speaking exercises.
I have created a new account just to experience the new tree... abandoning my old account and my beloved 150-day streak... and it is great. The images definitely add extra sparkle and there are some valuable and relevant new word additions too. The structure also feels more intuitive while the extra lessons give added value. I can't imagine the amount of work that went into creating it. But many, many thanks.
Bare hyggelig, Pål! It's certainly a momentous undertaking, but it's also very gratifying to see it all come together.
Thank you for the feedback!
I have compared both courses and I think that the new course is quite fast and doesn't allow a total beginner to take the time to get around a few basic things first. Before they even know some of the basic vocabulary, they are already dealing with the definite forms of nouns they never knew as well as verbs. The older course took it a little slower, and I found that better. I will also miss the longer skills. When one actually enjoys doing exercises, it is quite nice to have something to play with, the goal being to let the language sink in, not to earn crowns as fast as possible. On the other hand I do look forward to more themes and vocabulary, I just hope it's not all rushed over.
Thank you for your feedback!
Definite forms aren't introduced earlier than before, and we do need verbs to make complete sentences. I wonder, are you getting shorter lessons (in exercises per session) when doing the new tree? Because that's something Duo's always A/B testing, and not something we can influence directly. On this account, I get 17 - 20 exercises per lesson, even on the lower crown levels, while on my test account I've gone as low as 7 if I make no mistakes. On higher crown levels, I get longer lessons on that account as well. I much prefer the longer ones, especially for the languages I find less intuitive.
The skills aren't shorter because we've removed content; it's just reorganized. So you should get the practice you want, if split up into smaller chunks. You'll find some of the "missing" food nouns from the early skills in the Cafe and Restaurant skills, for instance. This allows us to build spaced repetition into the tree, because we can repeat the food-related verbs and nouns already taught in sentences with new food-related verbs and nouns. Skills with more than five lessons have a tendency to stall learners, meaning that they're less likely to keep progressing, which is why the new skills have a maximum of five lessons at crown level 0. It's of course a matter of personal taste too, but that's what Duolingo found when testing skill lengths.
Thank you again! I do appreciate it.
Thank you for your reply. Yes actually, I also have less phrases per session on the new version, between 7 and 10 per lesson (so I have to press the practice button to get all the phrases but they pop up very randomly). I misunderstood and thought it was part of the new update, so will keep using the two versions to get the full benefits of this otherwise very good course.
Bare hyggelig! It's not easy to know what's what here, with everything changing all the time. Maybe we should replace Heraclitus' "You cannot step into the same river twice" with "You cannot climb the same tree twice". :)
Please keep reporting things here if you notice anything down the line. Doing the two course versions in parallel should give you a valuable perspective.
Ok, one thing I just noticed, is that each completed skill on the duolingo app appears completely incomplete when doing the course on a computer. So for example, let's say I finished the "Actions" skill on the app and have a crown, that same skill is only half way complete on my computer. And it's like this with all the skills I have done so far... :-/ This hasn't happened with the other languages I am learning.
The skills of the original Norwegian course appear complete as well on my computer.
You can report technical bugs here: https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
It's possible that this behaviour is linked to the new word-based progress system which seems to be inconsistent between platforms - at least on my account.
I have been working on both courses, but was a little surprised to have only 3 sessions (to first completed star) in the new course's "Possessive" class, in comparison with 6 sessions in the older version of the course. Has some material been taken out, or is it simply less repeated?
The old Possessive skill was split in two. You'll find the genitives + til + si/sin/sitt/sine in the new Ownership skill.
Small issue: In the Tips and Notes for Computers, the entry for "å oppdatere" appears twice (the 2nd and the 7th entry).
Two small issues in Tips and Notes for Present Perfect.
In the table that shows the 3 ways to form the present perfect, for Group three the English translation is "have lived (as in making on's home somewhere", on's -> one's
Also in the Group 1 description section, in the second paragraph, the first sentence doesn't read as smoothly as it could (In my opinion). I suggest adding the highlighted words:
We use the suffix -et in this course since it is the most common form in writing and there are a few cases when it is the only allowed form.
I got the following sentence as "type what you hear" exercise:
Hvorfor selger han hesten?
The 's' in 'selger' was spoken like the English 'sh' and I wonder if this is a correct pronunciation? And if it makes sense to have that in a "type what you hear" exercise? (It confused me a bit but I guessed it right.)
The r+s combination (even across words) often leads to the s being pronounced more like a sh, but it's definitely a bit too exaggerated in that sound file. I'll disable the listening exercise.
In the Tips & Notes for the Restaurant skill, there is a small typo (missing preposition "with") in the first sentence of the last paragraph before the vocabulary table: Tips are registered and taxed along the rest of people's income, ... -> Tips are registered and taxed along with the rest of people's income, ... Takk.