Are later lessons in the new French tree accepting very little variation?
It seems hard to get something right on the first try, very little alternatives are accepted. For example:
"Ma fille est montée sur le canapé."
Correct answer: "My daughter climbed up on the couch."
"Wrong" answer: "My daughter climbed onto the couch."
It gets very frustrating when I try to test out some skills, because I basically have to try it 2-3 times before I discover which variation of the same sentence is needed. I've never had this problem with the old tree or any other one. I'm trying to report every sentence I find but it get's worse the further down the tree I am. Is it just me or are any of you having the same impression?
I'm thinking because less people get to the later lessons, and because of the new French tree a few months ago (if I remember correctly), there aren't many people reporting these errors.
As more people get to the later lessons, I'm sure more reporting will be done so that there will be more of a variety of answers.
We're not reporting these errors because there are too many of them!
If you are testing out you simply want to get the test completed and not lose a heart, getting something wrong that is obviously right is extremely frustrating!
You make a note of the acceptable answer and pump that in if you see it again!
Testing out isn't timed, you'll help yourself and others if you report alternate answers.
I have reported hundreds of these. I am getting tired of seeing them over and over and seeing them only sporadically being addressed. The accounts in the forums of others also reporting some of these over and over again and not having them addressed is also available.
If you want to continue to report them knock yourself out!
Even if it is reported I expect it to not be improved! There are 13 million active French learners, if only 1% report an error each day then by the end of the week the "staff" will be overwhelmed and unable to function.
Well it has been a few months now!
I actually believe if less of us report these "errors" then they will be able to fix more of them!
@Daniel589120 - unless t is weighted - which I think I read somewhere. So a question that gets flagged 20 times is consolidated and will be checked before one with only one flag. This could also be partially why it takes time to process the reports - they are waiting for responses.
Interestingly, Spanish was updated at about the same time, similar missed translation problems. I've been getting notified recently that my translations have been accepted. By the way, the old French course had problems with singular plural third person when the verb is pronounced the same ( but spelled differently). As far as i know those never got fixed. And I have had it take over a year to get notified of updates, sooo.
There are are many homophones in French, but il achète/ils achètent is not one of them. Do not forget the liaison between the "s" in ils and achètent: il_z_achètent.
Well, then you can't really expect things to improve. It's just two little clicks.
If you don't report it won't be fixed. There is no magic fairy who comes up with the other 50 translations that are missing. It literally takes a second - click report - my answer should be accepted. No explantion needed.
In case you missed all the French threads about this, "my answer should be accepted" often isn't even an option. Many things you can't report at all, and the ones you can don't get fixed. The mods and contributors have locked out of their own tree for months now. That's the issue. Currently it doesn't help to report anything, and there are a lot of mistakes in the tree right now.
I gave up trying to be correct first try or maintaining streaks a while ago because of lack of translations later in the tree. It's actually impossible to do so because of how narrow the later lessons are - I'm actually starting to receive translations hardcoded for either 'tu' or 'vous', or 'je' translations that force you to use a specific gender when referring to yourself. This is particularly evident in the new lessons.
With that said, I told myself long ago that the bells and whistles associated with DL lend absolutely nothing to my learning capability, so when I encounter a broken translation I just take it as an opportunity to drill a concept again. It's all you can really do.
I feel your frustration - Hungarian has been like that from day one - but how does that interfere with a streak? (and you have a reasonable one too)
I get so surprised and frustrated that it's marking me wrong I always forget to report it and just click to the next question. I suppose I need to take things slower and just report it every time.
I hope it gets fixed! I haven't even reached the 2nd checkpoint, but good luck on finishing the tree :)
It does seem that way to me. I have found sentences that only accepted "elles" and not "ils". Same with tu/vous.
The new paid staff will catch up. ... I hope. The previous volunteer course contributors were fantastic, and I think it was a real shame that Duolingo locked them out of the new tree instead of offering the job* to them. They were dedicated, helpful, and on the ball. They have given hundreds of hours of their time and I cannot thank them enough.
*Maybe Duolingo did. I honestly don't know. My point still stands, though: I wish the volunteers hadn't been locked out of contributing to the new tree. They were fantastic.
I've sensed the frustration of the mods lately. It's got to be really frustrating to see mistakes in the tree you've supported and created for years, and then get locked out, and on top of that watch Duo drop the ball for months.
I get emails every week saying "your answer is now accepted" in Spanish, German and Japanese, but never in French, which is my strongest language. All I can do is put comments in the forums so others can see that other people have had the same issue.
I have also been noticing these issues and definitely remember having the same reaction to "up onto the couch". Just today I had a lot of issues with the "Arts" lesson in the French tree. There's very little variation and some contradiction to what was taught prior, especially with "trop" meaning "so" in one lesson when it was always translated to "too/too many" before. I'm trying to report them as I see them, I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing these issues.
I agree with you, it's very frustrating ! I am thinking about stopping Duolingo , not only because of the sentences, but also that I have problems on the site. Every time I want to start a lesson, every thing is blocked, my mouse, the sound every thing ! Lucky am I, it's only temporary , but at least five minutes. I checked and I only have the problem on Duolingo. Too bad...
I remember this same complaint being made back in 2012 with the early version of the first French tree. In the years following that the volunteer team did a huge amount of work to accept a wide range of alternative translations suggested by users. It ended up being quite remarkably flexible.
And then duolingo threw away all that work to please their new corporate partner, Pearson.
I thought the adventure with Pearson was discontinued a long time ago. I have tended to think that the restructuring of the Spanish and French trees (then others to come later) to match the CEFR norms was to give Duolingo's certificates better recognition on the market. Am I wrong?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked and to the best of my ability I was only able to see that Duo offers an English certificate, but nothing else right now. Maybe Duo plans that for later. I really don't know.
I doubt if any certificate given by DL is worth much. However the preparation given to students is more useful if they can then, themselves, sit a third part CEFR exam - and I don't mean those 15 multi-choice question ones that can be found online.
I thought the adventure with Pearson was discontinued a long time ago.
It still looks quite an active thing judging by these two links on Pearson's web-site:
But it's true that duolingo, specifically Myra (who I respect), has explicitly stated that the new tree is not part of the Pearson partnership:
I want to assure you that the new tree is not part of the Pearson partnership. It's the result of Duolingo's focused strategy to include more CEFR (Common European Framework of Reference) concepts throughout the course.
(Quote sourced from this thread).
I don't actually know what's going on although I remain deeply suspicious of the partnership with Pearson. You would have a better idea than me. Frankly, while I used to follow duolingo news and developments quite closely (from the outside) my interest has greatly waned. And so perhaps my understanding of the motivations behind the move to the new tree is misinformed.
To end on a personal note, I have enjoyed and valued all my interactions with you on this site. Thank you for for that & best wishes.
Salut Oskalingo. Thanks for the links. I now remember that Duolingo ended up separating their databases from Pearson's so that no interference with our courses could disturb DL learners anymore. As to the CEFR alignment and future certificates, Duo would have to substantially develop their offer and teaching abilities to the most substantial challenge: the production of both written and spoken target languages.
Sorry, but many error reports are themselves wrong (like the one here about il/ils + acheter). Or else they are part of the unending squabble about the acceptance of unlimited English synonyms with no reference to the French we are learning. Frankly, 90-99% of error reports should never have been made.
Actually, given some of the discussions I've seen - It won't accept have drank. I reported it. It shouldn't accept have drunk, I've reported it, I would agree that a large percentage of error reports are wrong. Heck, I make error reports all the time, and often realize after doing a few more examples or just after pressing the button, that I was wrong. I think this is especially true when someone is insisting their non-standard dialect should be the only one used, which I have also seen in the sentence discussions.
Sitesurf Why does Duo never respond? They don't address errors that no doubt have been reported en masse and leave the error in place for months or years. If you have been here awhile and reported errors you likely have learned this and probably just skip reporting because it's a waste of your time. After reporting numerous times and coming to the discussion one learns that other people have done the same thing a long time before you did and they got no response and the same error is still there. I see MOD's and native speakers helping people frequently through error issues but I also think that it is widely believed that there are delays, issues and problems that are not being attended to and it seems that upper management, whomever that is, are not doing their job. This paragraph likewise will not be looked at or considered and was a waste of my time to write! Sitesurf are you reading this? I have only one way to show my displeasure and that is to not pay a renewal. If more people would not pay some improvement might happen.
I don't report because I don't do any lessons, except when I want to test something.
Up until this Tree was launched, I and other Mods would fix most mistakes by ourselves, add missing translations and clear reports. However, even if there were several volunteer Mods in the French team, we have always been overwhelmed by these reports: too many sentences for the time we could spend, no direct contact between users and Mods on sentences we were not following, a lot of issues we could not control, lack of availability in the Duo developing team to address them, etc.
Now, on this Tree version, the volunteer team no longer has the editing rights we had before so we can't fix or add anything.
The staff who wrote part of this tree is probably busy with other priorities. Typically, they don't read the sentence discussion forums and I am not sure if any of them reads the reports. In addition, this new Tree is almost twice as big as the previous versions, so even if they did read SDs and reports, I doubt they could be as responsive as users would wish.
What you get for your money is one thing: you don't get ads. For the rest, it does not change anything and you get the same service as non-paying users. If all Plus users stopped paying their renewal, DL would face financing issues and the service would certainly not improve.