https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zbrojny120

Are later lessons in the new French tree accepting very little variation?

It seems hard to get something right on the first try, very little alternatives are accepted. For example:

"Ma fille est montée sur le canapé."

Correct answer: "My daughter climbed up on the couch."

"Wrong" answer: "My daughter climbed onto the couch."

It gets very frustrating when I try to test out some skills, because I basically have to try it 2-3 times before I discover which variation of the same sentence is needed. I've never had this problem with the old tree or any other one. I'm trying to report every sentence I find but it get's worse the further down the tree I am. Is it just me or are any of you having the same impression?

May 22, 2019

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NtateNarin

I'm thinking because less people get to the later lessons, and because of the new French tree a few months ago (if I remember correctly), there aren't many people reporting these errors.

As more people get to the later lessons, I'm sure more reporting will be done so that there will be more of a variety of answers.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel589120

We're not reporting these errors because there are too many of them!

If you are testing out you simply want to get the test completed and not lose a heart, getting something wrong that is obviously right is extremely frustrating!

You make a note of the acceptable answer and pump that in if you see it again!

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

Testing out isn't timed, you'll help yourself and others if you report alternate answers.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel589120

I have reported hundreds of these. I am getting tired of seeing them over and over and seeing them only sporadically being addressed. The accounts in the forums of others also reporting some of these over and over again and not having them addressed is also available.

If you want to continue to report them knock yourself out!

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeff.kiplinger

I agree it's exhausting, but if it's not reported it will not be improved.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel589120

Even if it is reported I expect it to not be improved! There are 13 million active French learners, if only 1% report an error each day then by the end of the week the "staff" will be overwhelmed and unable to function.

Well it has been a few months now!

I actually believe if less of us report these "errors" then they will be able to fix more of them!

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

@Daniel589120 - unless t is weighted - which I think I read somewhere. So a question that gets flagged 20 times is consolidated and will be checked before one with only one flag. This could also be partially why it takes time to process the reports - they are waiting for responses.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

Interestingly, Spanish was updated at about the same time, similar missed translation problems. I've been getting notified recently that my translations have been accepted. By the way, the old French course had problems with singular plural third person when the verb is pronounced the same ( but spelled differently). As far as i know those never got fixed. And I have had it take over a year to get notified of updates, sooo.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CommeuneTexane

Bonjour @Andre989530,
There are are many homophones in French, but il achète/ils achètent is not one of them. Do not forget the liaison between the "s" in ils and achètent: il_z_achètent.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andre989530

oh yeah, they're still there. 'ils achètent' sounds identical to 'il achète' but stuff like this comes up in audio lessons constantly.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zia177448

Well, then you can't really expect things to improve. It's just two little clicks.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

If you don't report it won't be fixed. There is no magic fairy who comes up with the other 50 translations that are missing. It literally takes a second - click report - my answer should be accepted. No explantion needed.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

In case you missed all the French threads about this, "my answer should be accepted" often isn't even an option. Many things you can't report at all, and the ones you can don't get fixed. The mods and contributors have locked out of their own tree for months now. That's the issue. Currently it doesn't help to report anything, and there are a lot of mistakes in the tree right now.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philly17

I have been reporting it for a couple of months. It has improved slightly. The use is tu and not accepting the vous version was so annoying I nearly gave up.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andre989530

I gave up trying to be correct first try or maintaining streaks a while ago because of lack of translations later in the tree. It's actually impossible to do so because of how narrow the later lessons are - I'm actually starting to receive translations hardcoded for either 'tu' or 'vous', or 'je' translations that force you to use a specific gender when referring to yourself. This is particularly evident in the new lessons.

With that said, I told myself long ago that the bells and whistles associated with DL lend absolutely nothing to my learning capability, so when I encounter a broken translation I just take it as an opportunity to drill a concept again. It's all you can really do.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

I feel your frustration - Hungarian has been like that from day one - but how does that interfere with a streak? (and you have a reasonable one too)

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andre989530

oh, I was referring to questions in a row that are correct for the extra XP bonus. I'll typically get 19 correct in a row only to get marked wrong because I translated 'wish' as 'souhaiter' instead of 'vouloir'. Thank you by the way!

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterStanton

I get so surprised and frustrated that it's marking me wrong I always forget to report it and just click to the next question. I suppose I need to take things slower and just report it every time.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yerayzalaya

I hope it gets fixed! I haven't even reached the 2nd checkpoint, but good luck on finishing the tree :)

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carmen807459

It does seem that way to me. I have found sentences that only accepted "elles" and not "ils". Same with tu/vous.

The new paid staff will catch up. ... I hope. The previous volunteer course contributors were fantastic, and I think it was a real shame that Duolingo locked them out of the new tree instead of offering the job* to them. They were dedicated, helpful, and on the ball. They have given hundreds of hours of their time and I cannot thank them enough.

*Maybe Duolingo did. I honestly don't know. My point still stands, though: I wish the volunteers hadn't been locked out of contributing to the new tree. They were fantastic.

May 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Merci, Carmen.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

I've sensed the frustration of the mods lately. It's got to be really frustrating to see mistakes in the tree you've supported and created for years, and then get locked out, and on top of that watch Duo drop the ball for months.

I get emails every week saying "your answer is now accepted" in Spanish, German and Japanese, but never in French, which is my strongest language. All I can do is put comments in the forums so others can see that other people have had the same issue.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeff.kiplinger

So the moderators can no longer help with updating the trees??? Quel desastre!!

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdenEames

I have also been noticing these issues and definitely remember having the same reaction to "up onto the couch". Just today I had a lot of issues with the "Arts" lesson in the French tree. There's very little variation and some contradiction to what was taught prior, especially with "trop" meaning "so" in one lesson when it was always translated to "too/too many" before. I'm trying to report them as I see them, I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing these issues.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sturmpfeil7

I agree with you, it's very frustrating ! I am thinking about stopping Duolingo , not only because of the sentences, but also that I have problems on the site. Every time I want to start a lesson, every thing is blocked, my mouse, the sound every thing ! Lucky am I, it's only temporary , but at least five minutes. I checked and I only have the problem on Duolingo. Too bad...

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fran65B

I have the glitchy thing at the start of each lesson when the finger taps (word bank) don’t register and there is no sound. Fortunately with the questions where you have to select which word was spoken there is usually only one French word offered among the four

May 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oskalingo

I remember this same complaint being made back in 2012 with the early version of the first French tree. In the years following that the volunteer team did a huge amount of work to accept a wide range of alternative translations suggested by users. It ended up being quite remarkably flexible.

...

And then duolingo threw away all that work to please their new corporate partner, Pearson.

May 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

I thought the adventure with Pearson was discontinued a long time ago. I have tended to think that the restructuring of the Spanish and French trees (then others to come later) to match the CEFR norms was to give Duolingo's certificates better recognition on the market. Am I wrong?

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked and to the best of my ability I was only able to see that Duo offers an English certificate, but nothing else right now. Maybe Duo plans that for later. I really don't know.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

I doubt if any certificate given by DL is worth much. However the preparation given to students is more useful if they can then, themselves, sit a third part CEFR exam - and I don't mean those 15 multi-choice question ones that can be found online.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oskalingo

Salut Sitesurf,

I thought the adventure with Pearson was discontinued a long time ago.

It still looks quite an active thing judging by these two links on Pearson's web-site:

But it's true that duolingo, specifically Myra (who I respect), has explicitly stated that the new tree is not part of the Pearson partnership:

I want to assure you that the new tree is not part of the Pearson partnership. It's the result of Duolingo's focused strategy to include more CEFR (Common European Framework of Reference) concepts throughout the course.

(Quote sourced from this thread).

I don't actually know what's going on although I remain deeply suspicious of the partnership with Pearson. You would have a better idea than me. Frankly, while I used to follow duolingo news and developments quite closely (from the outside) my interest has greatly waned. And so perhaps my understanding of the motivations behind the move to the new tree is misinformed.

To end on a personal note, I have enjoyed and valued all my interactions with you on this site. Thank you for for that & best wishes.

May 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Salut Oskalingo. Thanks for the links. I now remember that Duolingo ended up separating their databases from Pearson's so that no interference with our courses could disturb DL learners anymore. As to the CEFR alignment and future certificates, Duo would have to substantially develop their offer and teaching abilities to the most substantial challenge: the production of both written and spoken target languages.

Cheers!

May 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roody-Roo

Sorry, but many error reports are themselves wrong (like the one here about il/ils + acheter). Or else they are part of the unending squabble about the acceptance of unlimited English synonyms with no reference to the French we are learning. Frankly, 90-99% of error reports should never have been made.

May 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fran65B

How do you know that?

May 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jambnett

Anything to support your conclusions?

May 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

Actually, given some of the discussions I've seen - It won't accept have drank. I reported it. It shouldn't accept have drunk, I've reported it, I would agree that a large percentage of error reports are wrong. Heck, I make error reports all the time, and often realize after doing a few more examples or just after pressing the button, that I was wrong. I think this is especially true when someone is insisting their non-standard dialect should be the only one used, which I have also seen in the sentence discussions.

May 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Roody-Roo is right, believe me as a Mod who had read reports for years.

May 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jambnett

Sitesurf Why does Duo never respond? They don't address errors that no doubt have been reported en masse and leave the error in place for months or years. If you have been here awhile and reported errors you likely have learned this and probably just skip reporting because it's a waste of your time. After reporting numerous times and coming to the discussion one learns that other people have done the same thing a long time before you did and they got no response and the same error is still there. I see MOD's and native speakers helping people frequently through error issues but I also think that it is widely believed that there are delays, issues and problems that are not being attended to and it seems that upper management, whomever that is, are not doing their job. This paragraph likewise will not be looked at or considered and was a waste of my time to write! Sitesurf are you reading this? I have only one way to show my displeasure and that is to not pay a renewal. If more people would not pay some improvement might happen.

May 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

I don't report because I don't do any lessons, except when I want to test something.

Up until this Tree was launched, I and other Mods would fix most mistakes by ourselves, add missing translations and clear reports. However, even if there were several volunteer Mods in the French team, we have always been overwhelmed by these reports: too many sentences for the time we could spend, no direct contact between users and Mods on sentences we were not following, a lot of issues we could not control, lack of availability in the Duo developing team to address them, etc.

Now, on this Tree version, the volunteer team no longer has the editing rights we had before so we can't fix or add anything.

The staff who wrote part of this tree is probably busy with other priorities. Typically, they don't read the sentence discussion forums and I am not sure if any of them reads the reports. In addition, this new Tree is almost twice as big as the previous versions, so even if they did read SDs and reports, I doubt they could be as responsive as users would wish.

What you get for your money is one thing: you don't get ads. For the rest, it does not change anything and you get the same service as non-paying users. If all Plus users stopped paying their renewal, DL would face financing issues and the service would certainly not improve.

May 27, 2019
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