Poll: Replace Percentage System with Lesson Count
Duolingo recently replaced the lesson count for leveling up a skill with a percentage system. Most people on Duolingo are against this, and this poll is seeking to bring the lesson count back.
Vote up if you think this should happen, vote down if you think it shouldn't. Let's go for 500 upvotes!
EDIT: Wow, we hit 500 upvotes early! Can we get to 1000?
EDIT: 1000 upvotes! Next goal is 1500.
Now in addition to learning a new language you can also practice your percentages by calculating the old numbers DL used to give us. Here's how if you're interested.
1 Take note of you current percentage complete (Original Percentage or CP).
2 Complete one class and note the new percentage (NP).
3 Subtract the original percentage complete from the new percentage complete to get the percentage complete per class (PCPC) you take. (NP - OP = PCPC)
4 Divide 100 by the percentage complete per class to get the total number of classes in the level. (100/PCPC = total classes in level (TC))
5 To figure out how many classes you've completed in a level, divide the percentage complete that DL gives you by the PCPC.
But having to do the math is silly. I vote ^^^^ YES ^^^^ on returning to the old lesson count
This doesn't work at all because progress in one skill adds progress to others. I'm now showing progress in skills I haven't even started yet.
That's why I'm pointing out that doing math isn't going to work. It would be helpful if Duo could better explain this new process because many users are confused.
You've been using Duolingo consistently every single day for 5 years?!? that's amazing.
Yes I agree......exactly the same on my skills, showing what I have not done yet.......
First time I saw that, I was also left scratching my Head!!! Did one skill and the "new" skill next to it went up 8%!!!
The math isn't a problem, but it doesn't tell you any information if you are at 0%. 0/10 is more informative.
Honestly why not both?? I love having lesson count on mobile and percentage on PC.
People are on here to learn languages, not do math lmao. What about all the poor elementary kids who barely know what percentages are? My sister is in 4th grade and really struggles with that sort of thing. Dear Duolingo, please stop assuming all the people on here are capable of doing constant math like this. It is such a pain. My that’s all, and yeah change it back to the lesson count (: Sorry for ranting if it’s seen that way, i’m Just annoyed with this percentage thing...
Lol, math is my favorite subject. Also, don't schools teach you to do percentages in like second grade? Anyway, I do not know what the other way was, and I don't really care... I'm here to learn a language, not to figure out how to level up.
Percentages in second grade? That wasn't the case when I went to school, but of course, that was a long time ago. Still, teaching percentages to students who haven't even been introduced to fractions and decimals seems to a bad idea.
The thing is, that this simple math everybody knows doesn't apply. The % are supposedly dynamic, with the individual skills adding % to other ones, and perhaps reflecting how well you do in the lessons. Some of the % progress a few learners have shared on the forum shows very clearly, that the obvious counting method doesn't work.
The problem here is not math. The problem is lack of explanation concerning the new system. I am personally looking forward to the %, if it works like I guess it does.
So it's like a score of how well you did!? I'd kind of like to see that implemented.
It could compute stuff for us. Maybe it could even do things like retrieve news. No, that would be just silly; we have radios for that! :)
One small itty bitty thing, on my sister's screen it's fractions, not percents, so if may be something with settings. I don't really know, maybe just browse with tools.
I literally cannot imagine any kind of argument in favor of this change. None. This is complete nonsense!
So, if we get partial completion that means that we have fewer lessons to do in that skill, or that we have fewer translations to do in future exercises?
Nonsense. If there are 5 lessons in a level, and you have done 1, then nothing is more accurate than 1/5, which means 1 of 5 completed. 20% may mean the same numerically, but 1/5 provides more information, and so is the best metric to provide.
I suspect they hired a new programmer who is trying to show off his/her leet math skilz. Too bad they aren't good enough coders to provide something useful, say like disable options.
The percentages seem to apply to words/lexemes and not the number of lessons. I'm wondering if progress is affecting the total number of lessons in each skill, and that's why that number is no longer displayed. The sticky post isn't clear at all.
I just want the ability to glance at a tree and know where I left off so I can figure out how I'd like to proceed depending on my circumstances. Now I'm completely lost.
That only matters if your primary goal is knowing exactly how many lessons you've done. I'd argue, why does that matter? Who cares how many lessons you've done? Isn't it more relevant knowing how much you've been exposed to the lesson content? With the % system, doing a lesson which has words from other lessons will appropriately update the % for all relevant lessons. That seems like much more useful information to me.
I agree, doing more advanced lessons should apply XP to the basic lessons that are related. Although it is a more complicated system, it is more representative of one's achievements. Someone doing more advanced work shouldn't have to do all of the basic lessons.
Except it doesn't reflect that at all. I just finished a series of lessons in Food 2 and I know I've encountered the word for juice in the past. I went up to the first food lesson, and it's still at 0%. But, my progress on another level of House is 13% full and I've got my notebook out. There's no clear overlap in the lessons, unless they're counting names like Vera and Dima, in which case I'd have a percentage in almost every lesson.
In your preferred system of fractions how do you account for partially completed lessons?
Round it? Then you could have a 97% complete skill showing 15/15 complete which would cause all sorts of confusion.
Now with a percentage you can see 97% and know you need to do more lessons.
This also seems to me you can progress faster through stuff you know well and focus on hard stuff.
Win win all for minor loss of a lesson count?
Like I needed this 'partial' crap. Duo, please... FFS, stop! As soon as I have a plan for my studies, you mess with it. You're drunk, go home!
I'd prefer to have the new % system explained first.
From some of the posts, it looks like there actually might be some logic behind this, including more dynamic learning better reflecting how we do in the lessons and better connecting the lessons. That would be actually a great change, in my opinion. But if it is not so, then the old system was better (at least better for planning).
Again, more communication about an update would be great.
I think that the Duolingo team should show both, side by side or you can choose which one in the settings. I don't mind the percentages, but i always liked to know how many lessons i needed exactly
i definitely want the lesson count back, the percentages are really just annoying as they just make it hard to know how many lessons you have left to get to the next crown level. kinda aggravating. of course, duo staff probably won't listen to us on this one, but here's to hope man
I have been going through my new French tree tackling the new purple level zero crowns by selecting subjects I fancied. Now they have all gained a percentage of progress and I have no clue whether I have actually done the lesson or had it marked as a percentage done by a background invisible process.
I enjoy starting at 0 and going through the lessons one by one. Now I don't know which subjects I have done previously all I know is some are marked as partially done and I know I have not done them.
This may be because I have completed the tree previously and not be an issue for people starting afresh from the top.
My experience is similar to yours even though I study a bit differently. I'm not even opposed to the idea of advancing multiple skills at a time, but I wish Duo would better explain how it works.
But yeah, it's annoying to not know where I left off because my trees look wonky now. I'm sure I'll figure out a way to manage it eventually.
This morning I just started my 4/5 on a skill. When I get through these lesson, I'll have completed the skill
So I completed 1 lesson. It shows me at 10% complete.
So I completed the next lesson. It still showed me at 10% complete.
Then I completed a third lesson. It STILL shows me at 10% complete.
I wouldn't mind so much this percentage thing, as long as it changed as I progressed. Usually the last batch of lessons are anywhere from 20-30 lessons. So if I'm 10% I've either done 2/20, 3/30 or something like that. If I completed ONE lesson and it tells me I have completed 10%, by rights that makes me think that there are 10 lessons. But that's never the case with the last stage in the skill.
The calculation is off. I wish that we could see the lesson count and/or the percentage. Since the percentage is unreliable, why take away something that worked and replace it with something broken?
I was very disappointed to see this percentage system. For me, the lesson count is a very important way of knowing where I stand on the Duo tree.
A redundant change as the ring already provides a relative view of your progress. This along with most of the alterations this year have quite annoyed me to be honest. Something has gone wrong, the changes last year were all pretty good.
I fully agree. I hated it, because I don't remember how many lessons I've done in a skill, and so percentages that are between multiple less possibility numbers (e.g. 67% of 3 or 6) make me confused. I need to know how many lessons are left in the level of a skill so that I know when I will start my testing.
I can't tell how many more I have to do..that is more important to me than some percentage of what's done.
Thanks for starting this poll! I do computational modeling as a significant part of my daily work, so I consider myself fairly numerically literate, but still, having to figure out how much the percentages change when I complete an exercise in order just to learn how many exercises I still have to do to complete a level is just pointless waste of time.
Voted up hard. I want to see how many lessons I have remaining so I can plan on when I can practice and how much. Percentages tell me nothing. Bring the lesson count back!
How do you know 99% of people are against this? Personally, I don't think it matters if it shows percentage or lesson count. How does this new thing even hinder learning progress?
(I am just trying to learn, I really don't care how much lessons I have left in a skill, I try to do at least 5 lessons a day, and if I finish a skill that is great, but if I don't it's fine.)
I think it rather odd that "finishing lessons" is more motivating to people than actually "learning lessons". I am personally not motivated by "how much lessons I have left" I am more motivated by how much words I actually learned.
Everyone has a different learning style. I don't have OCD, but I do like things to be finished, so I find it hard to stop partway through a skill. It clashes with the colors on the tree and it really doesn't look right to me, so I really like finishing the skill. And to do that, it's helpful to see how many lessons I have to do.
Wow you just moved the goalpost by like four thousand kilometers calm down son.
It does because it messes with the way I've been doing lessons before. Now I have no idea how many lessons I've done per skill, because the percentages DON'T SHOW THAT, STOP SAYING THEY DO!
Okay, the 99% was a guess, I will admit that. I have just seen many people protesting this, and upwards of 90% sounds like a reasonable estimate.
It's more of a matter of personal opinion, as I like knowing how many lessons I will have to do to level up a skill instead of having to mathematically calculate what I will have to do.
Maybe Duo is trying to give us a 2 in 1 deal, maybe the company is trying to help strengthen our math skills while learning a language. :)
How the hell are they going to strengthen our "math skills" if the percentages literally don't have anything to do with the number of lessons done?!
Easy, you can complete one lesson and see what the percent done is and then calculate how many more lessons you will have done.
For example: if I complete 1 lesson and it says I have done 20% I will divide 20 to 100 and come up with 5, and if I have already done 1 lesson I will subtract 5-1 and come up with 4 as my remaining lessons.
How many times will I have to explain to you that the percentages have NOTHING to do with the number of lessons done?!
This doesn't work at all because progress in one skill adds progress to others. I'm now showing progress in skills I haven't even started yet. There's no pattern from what I can tell so far.
Then you must've gotten a different update than me because my percentages are just randomly fluctuating around for no apparent reason.
S.A. Debre, they do relate. If you need to do 5 repetitions of a skill to level the skill up, then completing one repetition will get you 20% of the way to leveling up the skill. The next one will get you 40%, the next one will get you 60%, and so on.
I have been doing Duolingo a lot ever since the new update, and I've noticed that whenever I complete a lesson, the percentage goes up the exact same amount. There's a clear correlation, but if you don't notice it, I don't see how else to explain it.
My maths skills don't need strengthening. What would be good is to not have to waste time trying organise my language learning in ways I didn't have to only a month ago.
I don't think i have OCD, but i hate seeing lessons unfinished.
I have one(1!) language where i try to do one lesson at a time & explicitely NOT finish my skill. This language is my most neglected of all of them since i started implementing the SRS method. That's how much i hate looking at unfinished lessons.
Next to not knowing how much lessons there are per skill button(annoying enough on its own), the work that you've done before gets influenced by what you're doing now. So if you're working on the newest skill possible, some older ones up the tree get extra percentages. I did NOT ASK FOR THIS!
This new & totally unnessesary change is not motivating me. If you don't care, fine for you... Selfish BLEEP!
If you’re working on the newest skill possible, some older words up the tree will also appear again in the newest sentences.
The percentage is so obviously less informative that one wonders who came up with the hair-brained idea.
I want to have lessons count back, too. Or alternatively, why cannot we have them both - lessons count AND percetage?
I liked the count because I do it by doing one, then another (2), then I do the next one, then I do 3-2-1, and I start all throughout the lesson doing the same thing.
I like it better because instead of doing 20-50 lessons on one thing, then moving on with my memory doesn't work as well. Doing it a little at a time, and reviewing the lesson each time is the sledge-hammer I need.
Why not make it an option--let us choose which one we like. I like the numbers left/completed.
I like the word-based progress, and think the percentage progress is necessary to implement that, but I think we should also get to see "X lessons to next level"
I think this works with the percentages better than X out of Y lessons, since it might seem strange to jump from 3/10 to 4/10 lessons without ACTUALLY doing a lesson in that skill.
"X lessons to next level" suggests that each lesson progresses your percentage progress to the next level.
It's a small distinction but I think it meshes better with the update.
I think calling for a complete removal of the percentage progress is over the top.
Agree. Perhaps it would make sense if there were the same number of exercises for each topic, but as it's constructed it makes no sense.
I fail to see the point of this frustrating change. Daily quotas are set in terms of the number of XP lessons done rather than as a percentage of the total lessons in a given level. Switching to only percentages destroys useful information for users.
Users need to know the number of XP lessons they have done towards their daily goal—not what percentage of the variable total number lessons in a given level they have done.
Percentages can be easily calculated if the total number of lessons in a level and the number done are provided as in the past. Finding out how many lessons a user has done towards their daily goal or the number of lessons in a new level now is now difficult or impossible because of this unhelpful and unneeded change to percentages.
Absolutely easier to see your progress as a fraction (e.g., 2/5) than a percentage. Nice try Duolingo, but you should back out this change (please). Do like that you corrected how combo points are calculated though, now based on the longest streak in the exercise.
I am in favor of having both numbers. But if I could have only one, I'd prefer the lesson figure.
One huge problem with the switch to word-based percentages is that no one from Duolingo has fully explained how the figure is derived.
Myra's post felt like a follow-up to a post that, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist. No one from Duolingo has answered any of the questions that many, many people have asked.
Her post frustrated more than informed me. I've read it several times. I still feel as if there's something missing.
I'm sure some of the backlash against the percentages is a result of having several changes on the website at once.
It would be nice if Duolingo paced these changes a little better.
It would be even nicer if they recognized that a part of planning for changes is explaining those changes to users.
I only just got the percentage system today. How am I supposed to know how many lessons I have left? I can already see how far through the lesson I am with the little yellow circle. Maybe put the percentage next to that, and keep the 'X out of X' where it was in the first place?
I personally think the lesson count gives me extra motivation to work with. Percentage just seems like a commercialized system rather than a education based progress report. The percentage system doesn't TOTALLY have to go away but just use it somewhere else.
I am in favor of returning to lesson count. I do four lessons a day and use the lesson count to help me know how many I've completed. I could count experience points, but this doesn't give me a true picture of how many lessons I've done, since extra points are awarded for each lesson. Another reason I want to return to lesson count is because I want to know how many lessons there are! Why not provide both lesson count and percentage? That would provide the lesson count info and do the math for the people who want it.
When I'm deciding which lesson I'm going to learn next, it was very useful to know how many levels each section had, because some nights I was in a '6' level mood, and some days, when I'm tired, it might be nice just to a '3'.
Now all lessons just read 0% and I have no idea. It was just a pointless change, with no reasons given and no consideration for what people might actually have wanted. Certainly, there are bigger problems in the world, but Duolingo was never one of them before. I just kind of wish they'd stop messing around with it now, I realise I'm getting old and set in my ways, but every time I log onto duolingo and find some new colourscheme or silly button I find myself sighing and wondering what they have been mucking about with now.
Duolingo seems to be making a lot of the wrong decisions: great a teaching languages; lousy at web design. The best features of before it has hidden. Changed the blue fields of before to all white which consumes a lot of power on mobile devices. An now this percentage system. Wish they would chase all the kids out of their web design department and let the adults back in.
Yes, I like the count instead of percentages, and all things the way they were before that worked.
Please bring back lesson count. The progress wheel already visually indicates percentage, and does not show us the number of rounds required to complete the level.
I'd prefer if it was optional. I like seeing percentages and I also like seeing how many lessons are left. That's just me though.
EDIT: I have changed my mind. I would still like an optional feature, but I want the accuracy of percentages to be fixed. And maybe fix the fact that you can start a new level, not do a single lesson, yet still be 4% done. I know why they do that, but maybe provide an explanation for new users.
Oh, please yes ... I was still given lesson count until yesterday. Today: percentages. Why? Genuine question: How is this supposed to be better. The lesson count was better for me. It helped me pace myself and prevent frustration. I can tell if I'm fifty percent done, etc. So, this is info I could have easily figured out. Reverse - not so much.
PLEASE return to the old system of lesson counts (i.e. 1/7 instead of 14%). Why? Because it is more precise, more accurate, more informative, and easier. Somebody running Duolingo has the grossly mistaken idea that decimal fractions are preferable to simple fractions. But note: 14% is not the same as 1/7; 1/7 is a repeating decimal: 1/7 = 0.142857142857... Decimal fractions are only useful in comparing the relative size of two numbers (so 2/7 > 1/4 since 0.285714 > 0.25). 2/7 is completely clear, accurate and precise in telling you that you've completed two out of seven lessons; if you want to know the decimal fraction form, just divide 7 into 2.0 (a one-step operation on a calculator). To convert 0.28 back to 2/7 is hard, especially since 0.28 is merely an approximate to a proper fraction. BTW I'm a PhD math prof, and I LOATH the way our popular culture uses decimal fraction form even when a simple fraction does a much better job.
Your objection is ambiguous. When you say 99%, does that mean 99 out of 100, or 99000 out of 100000?
The three things you just wrote are exactly the same. There is no difference between "99 out of 100" and "99 000 out of 100 000". These two correlations are absolutely equal. If you're not sure how percentages work, I can explain it to you, if you want.
That's the point. A percentage gives you less information. That skill button says 67%, does that mean there were 3 lessons & you've done 2 of them? Or is it 4/6? Or were there 10 lessons & have you done 5, which would normally give you 50%, but did extra percentage earned further down the tree skew this skill button higher up?
I literally have less information that i'd use to decide which skill to practice.
(apart from the fact that i'd like to colour whole skill buttons & hate this partial crap)
Le sigh right back at yourself. The percentages given are not the x/y where x is lessons you've done and y is lessons you need to do. They are tied to how many times you've encountered a certain word that you've studied before. Which is why when you encounter said word later on in the course, it gives you percentage points for the lesson where you first studied the word, at the beginning of the course. Which is how learning works, actually. You know a word or a phrase when you've encountered it through learning it elsewhere, not just by grinding the same translation over and over again. And since they can't accurately give you points with the x/y lessons, they went with percentages. You can encounter 1 word from a lesson at the beginning of the course later on and get 1% for the lesson where you studied the word. Which is impossible with the x/y. Therefore, this method actually gives you MORE information, not less. Information on how many lessons you "have to do" (which is a meaningless phrase, because the things you "have to do" are completely arbitrarily put there by some volunteer) is worthless. Information on how much you actually know is good.
Le sigh ends.
Paragraphs are your friends!
I use this website for grammar, practicing whole sentence structures etc.
If skill button K is for practicing past tenses, i do not want that skill button K to level up because it also happens to introduce the word ceffyl & i am busy further down my tree practicing another skill button Q which has several sentences with ceffyl in it. The same with softenings like Cymraeg > Gymraeg. I need sentences for that, not mere words.
Percentages do not give me more info, the only information is: "you praticed on duolingo." Yay, swell, i didn't know that!
Word based frankly is a waste of my time. If i wanted to just learn seperate words i would be using a site that is better at that, like Anki or Memrise. Those've perfected the flashcard system.
Furthermore you seem to be quite a bleeb & incapable of understanding that people use the lesson count to plan their lessons. That is NOT meaningless, even if it is not something you do yourself. If you're so devoid of empathy that you can't see that, i can only say that i hope you don't encounter too many people in your daily life.
If the percentage algorithm simply works on word usage we are going to miss out on a lot of grammar, verb tenses etc.
What do you mean "you're going to miss out" on them? Surely you've been missing out until now as well, right? The system before this one didn't even give you info about the words you know, let alone grammar and verb tenses. It just gave you knowledge of how many exercises you've done and how many you still need to do to "finish" the lesson (again, a meaningless phrase). Information that wasn't even fluid and didn't account for your work elsewhere in the course. If your problem is that you're going to miss out on statistics about how much grammar you've studied, why haven't you been saying all along "this system doesn't tell me how much of the grammar I know, please change it so it doesn't say how many exercises I still have to do"?
Add my name to the list of upvotes. Changes should make the user experience better, but this definitely made my user experience worse (and it has also been detrimental to many other users). Even though some rhyme or reason is now starting to become apparent for the percentage system, I still don't like it. The altered percentages in other lessons may be good in some ways, but they also throw my study system out of kilter. I have adjusted to this system as best I can, but I would certainly welcome the return to a lesson count with open arms.
Unless this is some complex system to add experience from other lessons to the percentage done on the lesson you are looking at (which I'm not sure is a good idea in itself) please go back to '1/5' or '5/25' or '10/50' or '20/100' all of which yes are 20% but the later clearly provides less information.
Just imagine looking at a subject and saying to yourself ooh I'm 80% through this I only have 1 more lesson to do and then finding out only 1% gets added upon completion of an exercise.
This seems like obfuscation for the sake of it!
Why is it so hard to open the forum and read the literally "sticky" post from the admins at the top? https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32313440
And, no, it gives you MORE information, because, being fluid, it changes based on what you do and how you learn in the ENTIRE course. What you're suggesting is "you have done X exercises, you need to grind to Y exercises" to get to this arbitrary "end" of a lesson that no professional teacher would ever use. That is not how learning works! If I've done the course to lvl 3 of each lesson and then went back to practice, I would KNOW the words in the first lesson of the course (mother, father, son). The previous system didn't account for that and just made you grind like an idiot for 2 hours straight writing "i ate an apple" 4 times per minute. This new system is better, because when you encounter the word "mother" in 100 exercises throughout the course, it gives you percentage points for the lesson that teaches you the word "mother" - the first one.
It's a way, way, way better system and gives you way more information, because it gives you info on WHAT YOU KNOW, not info on HOW MANY EXERCISES DO YOU NEED TO GRIND, which is worthless information for you as a learner.
Because that sticky post doesn't explain everything. Only the affect of one skill on another, not progress within one skill (and combination of the two). But an old blog post by memrise suggested, they were looking for a system giving you more or less progress based on how well you do within the lessons. And we weren't told, whether this is it, or what is the difference.
Some people assume, that the % is just another way to display the fraction (1/5=20%), and that's why they are against the apparently useless change. This is most probably not exact, and the difference is not just in what is described in that sticky thread, some shared progress of various learners really looked too different from that (a learner getting just 1% for a lesson, or getting 30% divided in two levels). We were simply not explained the whole idea, and that is not Paul's fault.
Also, "no professional teacher would ever" is a bad argument. Duolingo is not perfect (by far). But neither are the teachers. Actually, if most of them were good, Duolingo would certainly have significatnly fewer users :-D
I agree with you that the new system might be significatnly better, zar4er, but only if it works like we guess it does. But that is no reason to be this disrespectful towards a fellow learner. None of us has got the full information.
The post does not mention percentages.
If the algorithm only works on words then phrases may be missed as you have learnt the individual words e.g. you come across 'ca', 'comment' and 'va' but never learn 'comment ca va' because the individual words have been 'learnt'.
As for the sticky post why isn't there a News section instead of expecting people to go to a discussion forum.
I see no reason why they can't have both the lesson count and percentage. I use the lesson count to figure out which skills to focus on levelling in the time I have to practice. Do I have 10 minutes? Then I work on a skill that needs 5 more lessons to complete. An hour? Then I will do something more intensive, like level 4 -> 5 of a skill. This percentages is unhelpful for planning.
As a counterpoint, here's my agrument from anther thread as to why percentages are not just there to make things harder:
this looks like a terrible choice at first, but hold on a sec before you pass judgement!
ok, so it looks like the main thing duo is doing here is making it so that your progress through the different skills are more interconnected, instead of the completely individual, "silo" approach that was used before. in the thread linked below, duolingo says:
"if you encounter the sentence 'My brother drinks juice.' and you are learning the word “juice” but have encountered 'brother' and 'drinks' previously, then all of those skills will get a simultaneous boost."
basically, this means that doing newer lessons should give you progress on older lessons. it also says:
"You will also be able to earn progress across multiple skills by doing global practice sessions"
so now doing the practice mode will also help us complete the skills!
so essentially, this percentage system is abstracting out progress a little bit in order to make it easier to give us credit for the words you are learning. hopefully, this will help language learners focus on learning new things instead of continually hashing over the same words and sentences.
Here's the link to the page i referenced, courtesy of asterix135 https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32313440
Yes but as I've also said elsewhere does the new algorithm account for grammar and phrases or is there a risk that we may miss out on these other parts of language learning at the cost of avoiding repeating vocabulary we have already done in another lesson.
Also if Duolingo had a News feature they could explain these upgrades and get people onside beforehand instead of releasing the update and putting a limited explanation on a discussion forum.
Here's my proposal that can satisfy those who do and don't like it; both! There's a lesson count, and a percentage, or a setting to switch them. Because as far as I can tell the percentage has a lot more going on than "percentages of lessons completed" so maybe both will be better! But hey, just an idea.
It definitely should. Knowing how many lessons are left to level up helps you decide how many more lessons you want to take in any given day:)
I vote yes - for a return of the lesson count... Why was it changed anyway? My mother always said, “If it works, it don’t need fixing”. (She was a country gal.) The Duolingo programmers should learn to leave things alone.
YES to return to the old lesson count! I'm not a mathematician! just a Lowly would-be bi-linguist :-)
I was always told that "if it isnt broke , then dont fix it" Or did somebody at Duo need something to do for job security :)
One thing that the percentages routine does, is to artfully conceal how many exercises are at a given level. Thus it looks (at first glance) like "50%" would mean something similar across all languages. This is not accurate at all.
For example: where Esperanto has a robust structure with 10 or more sentences in each exercise, and as many as 40 exercises at a given level, in reviewing my German (a much more complex language than Esperanto) I was surprised to find as few as 5 exercises at a given level, under ten sentences per exercise, and of those, many responses consisting of one or two words. So the percentage system for showing progress glosses over the (sometimes large) differences in the depth of study offered.
The "X of Y" way of rating progress was thus more honest about course content (in addition to being more motivational and allowing us to plan our learning sessions).
Yes, please return to lesson counts. The percentages are hurting my brain. It's difficult enough trying to learn the Spanish prepositions.
There's an advantage to the percentages because you can earn % from other places in Duolingo (not just those specific lessons). And I believe that includes Stories and also Tiny Cards. You can level up a lesson without actually doing it.
Unfortunately for end users, Duolingo never listens. They will continue to keep making the interface more cartoonlike and ignore feedback like they always do.
Lupus55, almost all changes Duolingo has made have been based on user feedback and suggestions. I used to have a discussion that tracked that. You might find it by using forum search bar and looking for features inspired by community feedback/suggestions. (If I were on computer I could find it but im on my phone rn.) I got busy and stopped updating it. But, the majority of changes are still coming from suggestions.
It is easy to assume that everyone wants the same things even though that's not true. There are over 350,000,000 learners using Duolingo. Comparatively, the number of people commenting here is very small. And there are sock puppet accounts up voting this discussion and likely leaving a few of the comments as well.
- I really like the new Duo design. 2. I prefer the percentages 3. I feel that overall Duolingo has vastly improved from the esrly days 4. I dont always speak up in discussions like this to give my opinions because everything we see here today will likely be different in the future. Also, my differing preferences arent super strong so if it changed back to 1/5 etc it wouldnt be a huge deal worth arguing a bunch of people who are letting out steam. Im mentioning it now though to demonstrate that, more often, people leave negative feedback rather than positive. So, it is easy for appearances to be skewed.
Yessssssss. Please have the lesson count. The percentage only shows the percentage, but you never know how many total lessons there are.
This change is inane. I know I complained it was inconsistent between the IOS phone app and the website, but wow, this is horrible.
I can't see any reason for this change. Its literally less information than showing something like "2/5". "2/5" takes the same number of characters as "40%", and shows you how many lessons are in that skill. And its more accurate! 2/12 is more accurate than 16%.
Think it's ironic that you used a percentage example to make a point about how many people are in agreement, surely this should be 99 out of 100 people agree. I'm just having a laugh I do agree with you though and have voted.lol
If there is another "new" feature that I'm against - its the bonus "combo" points (what's a combo?). I used to be able to quickly look at the side and see how many lessons I completed in a day (in the past, I tried to do 10 lessons in two languages and 5 in a third). Now I look at the daily points total and I have NO IDEA of how many lessons I've completed for the day (I've resorted to making ticks on a piece of paper). Massively frustrating.
I can only agree with you! Before I could easily tell how many lessons should I do by XP without ANY counting
Both percentage and numbers serve the save purpose, in giving the user the ability to see their progress through the skill. The different being that the number is more informative than the percentage - it makes no sense to use the less informative of the two.
I can't see the benefit of this change, unless ambiguity is the key. Maybe they've noticed that if people don't know exactly how many lessons are remaining, they won't just complete them for the sake of leveling up? Duolingo is about learning at your own pace, not reaching crowns and happy noises.
What is wrong with people just completing the level for the sake of leveling up? That is actually a good thing, motivating people to push themselves a bit harder. "At your own pace" doesn't have to mean "too slowly". It is also a motivation element you can use or ignore and that doesn't affect anyone but the individual learner, perfect.
So, this purpose you describe sounds like complete nonsense, no offence meant.
The changes on this page are so annoying,can this page remain the same way at least six months?That would be great.
I like the change to giving credit for stuff you've learned in other lessons. It makes a lot of sense as a way of showing where you are with any particular lesson set.
I had been using the 4/10 (or whatever) ratings to figure out what to do next (especially as I have been working through all the recent added content in the spanish tree). But I'm sure I'll adapt.
And as a bonus, maybe I'll have fewer things asking me conjugate the imperfect form of estar....
I want them back but at the same time, I don't really mind. Honestly, it sort of encourages me to do more lessons because I don't look at the number of lessons I have to do and go "Oh man, that's so many". With the percentage, I don't know how many lessons I have to go.
I don't care. The abandoning of interactivity like notifications is far more damaging to the appeal of Duolingo imo.
I agree! It's a bit confusing for people with just a percentage. On mobile, the number count is still there, so I was a little confused when checking out online for the first time. Bring number count back!
Why not have both? I usually write most of the lessons in a notebook, writing by hand helps me remember, and having paper is useful for when I can’t connect te internet (which is often). For that purpose, knowing the number of lessons is quite important, so I can estimate the number of pages I need. And it also works better with me, it’s clear and simple. I’m not against the percentage, but I don’t think there is a need to replace the old system instead of complementing it.
Just realized the web page had switched to percentages. (Have been using the app) The web page shows me at 4% completion on a topic I've completed 14/20 exercises. Something is goofy—unless they've change the math since I taught it! Next guy gets the honor of being #1000!
I don't really understand what "upvote" means, but I find the percentages confusing. I just want to know how many more lessons I need to complete to advance to the next level.
Having the lesson count helps me plan my effort vs goals better and that motivates you (oh only 4 to go for next level). Much more than a guesstimate %, that kills some motivation. You can have both count and %, there is room shm
Yes, as others have mentioned, I am not here for math lessons! Lesson count allowed me to see how many lessons were in the upcoming level--0% is a meaningless number.
I think it would be helpful to have both! I prefer seeing the lesson count, but having that and the percentage side by side would be extra motivating for me.
Yes return to Lesson count; % system indicates one has to know what 100% is ... ~cb
I see why everyone is upset and confused. Believe me, so am I. I think rather than completely reverting, the change, there should be a new option in settings to use "x/x lessons" or percentages OR, they should make a hybrid of both, having fraction and percent together. That way there is the advantages of both systems and everyone can be happy. This would also help with the new mechanic they added recently being integrated, since it takes advantage of percentages. Link to that new mechanic here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32313440
I agree !! Bring back the lesson count. The percentages do not motivate me at all, and they hide information. If I had done 10%, there is no way to tell if that means I have done 1 out of 10, 2 out of 20, or 10 out of 100 lessons. It makes a difference as to how I feel about my progress.
I love Duolingo, but I hate 0% - it doesn't tell you anything. Some people might like percentages, though, so why not have a switch or have both?
I agree absolutely however why would anyone want to disguise a simple fraction as a percentage especially when you have to do the exercises anyway (you can see this on a tablet app which doesn't have percentages)!
Have tried to vote this up and then says email verification required but nothing coming through !!! So that would make me 1420. It would also be helpful if Duolingo actually listened to it's customers and for goodness sake if it's not broken don't try and fix it. Whoever thought this was a great idea wants to think again.
I am so ready to qui. I don't like any of the change, no toe percentages, not the disappearance of our standing in relation to friends...oh, yuck duo
There is a lesson count. You just have to know the words and actually understand the topic/vocab. It ensures you get your words memorized so Duolingo doesn't rob your house if you lose your streak
Then of course, Just using the key to jump to the next level is always an option...
When it's in A/B Test, I see that a lot of negative topics, they said that they don't like the percentage system. I thought "Ah, Duolingo won't apply it". And yesterday, okay, I saw the 50%. :)
I think with the updated progress linking between lessons. The percent only makes sense. Ignore them. They'll adjust.
The percentage system only applies to the computer version as far as I know. The phone app version still uses the lesson-count system. This topic is a bit tricky to answer because not every one agrees on replacing the percentage system. Yes, it may be a minority, but that minority adapted to the current system and wishes no end to it. So if the percentage system does become replaced there will be opposition to that decision. On the other hand, most of the users (as far as I know) would rather have the system replaced by the lesson count one. To find a middle-ground solution for this, this topic shouldn't be treated as a "one way or the other" kind of question. Otherwise not everyone taking a side on the argument will be happy with the result. So in my opinion we should implement both the percentage system and the lesson-count system so everyone would be satisfied.
The percentage indicator brings out the completionist in me to finish all the lessons. I have no problems with it. Besides I only see this in the web/pc version of it and not the app (for now).
To be honest I'm not sure what's wrong with the percentage. I quite like it! Why don't others? Sure, I do miss the old way of things, and I'd much rather keep it that way, but Duo the owl has tried something new...
Anyway, while I'll vote yes, I still won't be in a rage is the staff at Duolingo don't change. Happy learning nonetheless!
I wouldn't care if I was going top to bottom. But as I explained above on the fourth time through the whole shebang I started at many points, I do one all the way through, then I do 2-1, then 3-2-1, then 4-3-2-1, top to bottom at all of my starting points.
It would be find if we had the same # of lessons on each circle. But due to having 4, 10, 20, 50, or varying numbers it skews the percentages and makes it hard to implement my system, that helps me remember better. It also helps me use many different skills and rules rather than trying to drill in just one thing for 20 lessons, then moving on and beginning to forget the one I just learned.
I'm all for protesting. I've never met a cause that I don't have a position on but seriously, I just keep going through the lessons because the point IS, it's not about points but proficiency. I do, I learn and I move on. If something seems strange to me I click on the lesson, read the comments (ALL the comments)and invariably learn something I didnt know. Isn't that why we're all here? To learn a new language? If I get something wrong, I read why and move on. However, if so many are stuck on the rating process and it means so much to you, I'll help with an up vote. NOW, back to my lessons!
Didn't see this poll, and just found a couple of days ago that the lesson count was changed to percentage. If Duo is listening, I suspect it'll be changed back soon.
could it 'll to be optional? for example i do not want to see the percentages on my progress. i can be able to change the count number of lessons or percentages on my profile settings. i know that it is possible. but the real question is "What Duo managers and developers want?"
as well... some users want to see numbers and percentages same time. you can add optional settings on the user profiles "wich type progress tracker do you want to see?"
i know that it is possible too...
On a computer, you can see the level number and lesson count in the address bar near the top of your screen. This information is indicated in the last few digits shown when you start a new lesson. I'd still prefer to see this information shown where the % is now shown or would it be possible to display both?
Using %'s are useless, as you have no idea how many lessons are left. Is 50% 1 more Lesson of 2, or 6 lessons of 12.
I have lesson count on my phone, and percentages on my Kindle, and switch back and forth. I don't see the problem; progress is progress.
Lucky you! My phone is iOS 5 so I haven't been able to access Duolingo on it for some time. On my laptop, using Safari, I cannot see half of the questions, and on Firefox it is excruciatingly slow. I too use Kindle (it was cheaper than buying a new phone). I am all in favour of progress, but lets get the existing system working properly before introducing so called 'improvements'. I am all in favour of progress IF it makes things better ... I would prefer to be able to see how many lessons I still have to do to complete a section. Their percentages are far from accurate, and tell me nothing.
i mean, i really only care that i learn to understand the language well, but i'll give this an upvote.
From all of the emails I've gotten from this thread there is overwhelming support for going back to the old system.
As I said, I'm on the last level. I like to read the lesson each time if one is available. I started at many points within the thread, the first, sixteenth, thirtieth, all the way to the bottom. I do one lesson. I go to the next point, I start, I Do one lesson. Once I have established many "starting" points throughout the entire lesson, I go back to the first, I do another, then I do the next one (2-1). Then I do that with each starting point. Then I go back to the beginning and do (3-2-1).
With numbers this is easy. But due to the fact, some have ten lessons per circle, some have 50, the percentage system makes it hard to follow.
Please, there is overwhelming support for putting things back like they were, or perhaps showing both the lessons completed and remaining as a fraction like you did, PLUS the percentage if you want to keep your extra, but unnecessary programming.
Using this method is probably not the best the first time through. But it works better for me since I review each lesson each time. It really helps with my memory.
Personally I don't really mind the change to percentages and not having lesson counts for each skill is worth the trade for word-based progress. It gives a more accurate way to see your progress, keeps you from having to test out of easy skills, and keeps boring old words from popping back into your lessons. Even though it may not work perfectly I think it's a good concept and should be kept, but maybe we could also see lesson counts as well.
I can see value in completions in one skill transferring achievement to another, related skill, and therefore reporting progress in percentages. But, that said, it was very useful to know the actual number of lessons in a given level, and how many remained to be completed (and it was also depressing sometimes to see a quite large number of lessons for a given level...). Anyway, back to the point ... why not report both percentages and numbers of lessons for a skill level?
I never disliked a feature enough to complain about it...until now. I just want to know how many lessons of the set I have done, feel free to keep track of the percentages in the background but please keep the display simple.
I think there's a logic behind this change (not that I approve of it, mind you). Now if you test out, you cannot know if you are awarded only 20 xp for skipping 4 lessons or 24, so you cannot complain or feel frustrated. You can spare your frustration for the leagues system we've been compelled to join. What a joke!
Duolingo is partnered with a research university. Together, they produce research for the future of internet learning in general. So, even if they change back to 1/5 etc, in the future that would change again to something else, and then that something else would change to still something else after that, and so on.
At some point in the future, Duolingo won't look like it does now. The only constant on Duolingo is change, because they aren't trying to stick to known pathways, but to forge new ones. Known pathways don't produce new knowledge about how people learn online. So, once they learn what they can, they try something new to see what else they can learn. Whether the idea performs better or worse, they can learn something from it.
It can be frustrating for learners who, once they find something they like, they don't want it to change. But, those things will change. Since I joined Duolingo in 2013, it has undergone thousands of changes, many of which I liked very much. It looks very different today than back then. And, in another 5 years, it will probably look very different than it does today.
I was also thinking something like "5 more repetitions to level up", to show how many more times you will need to repeat a skill to get it to the next level. As you strengthen words in that lesson via other skills, the number of repetitions needed would decrease.
Whoever's upvoting with the sock puppet accounts, unfortunately, youve really trashed the potential for the upvotes as well as user counts among comments to be taken seriously in the artificially elevated discussions.
meh... why does it matter either way. It could just be the graphic without the count or percentage. Eventually if you take enough lessons you will finish, why the anguish over the small things?
Change is always bad. That being said, learning a language is not about keeping score or doing a set number of lessons. Duolingo is not mandated by by any organization that I am aware of. If you are doing it, you are here to learn. You keep doing it because you want to continue learning. % or number of lessons, you can stop whenever you want, or continue because it is what you want to do. The good folks at Duolingo are constantly working to improve their FREE product. Not being a linguist or a teacher, I will leave the details in their capable hands. I vote to leave the %'s and let them continue to improve our experience.
I see your point. But everybody has different learning styles, and some prefer the gamification that Duolingo provides, and some prefer leveling the skills up all the way and not leaving part of the way filled.
I am also impressed with what Duolingo is doing, but I don't see why they made this change in the first place. It was good the way it was in my opinion.
Your points are valid. With all I said above, I still try to keep my streak going, even to the point of spending a few Lingots or racing through a lesson at 11:55 PM. Being an isolated learner, it keeps me in the "game!" I thought I read the change was required to give credit for things learned in other lessons. Endeavor to persevere.